Tech: RAM Speed...huh?

Subject: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:36 PM

This doesn't really have anything to do with music - not in my case anyway. It might for someone else. Not sure if it goes on the top or at the bottom.

A digital camera I want to buy
Who knows why - just want to buy
The camera needs Windows XP
Oh dear me - upgrade to XP!
And XP needs me to get more RAM
Oh goshdamme, I need more RAM
The guy at the store says "What speed"
Do I need?" Indeed? Speed?

So anyway, I've tried to figure this out by looking in Control Panel/Systems, and various other places on my computer, and I can't figure out what speed RAM I ought to buy. This SHOULD be easy!

What can I do?
Might some kind soul please donate a clue?

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:41 PM

There's more than just Speed involved - ther are many different types - you need to get a type that your motherboard is designed for.

I'm sure others more up to date technically will be prepared to tell you more than you want to know... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 08:49 PM

The guy asked me a few questions which I could answer, but when we got to RAM speed, I got stuck. I'll probably figure that out, go back, and he'll ask what size furble drive I'm running, and whether or not it's explostacle-compatible...

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:07 PM

There are different type that work differtnly - and they take differernt pin configurations, and come in different "lumps" of memory - and you have to put some types in matched pairs....

I warned you you could be told MORE that you really WANTED to know... :-) if you told us what machine you have, that might help...

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 09:17 PM

A lot of specialist suppliers of RAM have arrangements on their websites for telling you what type your particular system needs. The only one I've actually used is Crucial Memory, a UK supplier, but they may well have the information you need even if it's more convenient for you actually to buy from a more local source.

http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listmfgr.asp?cat=RAM

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Raven "Where's my pint"
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:02 PM

if you still have it take a look in your motherboard manual;
first thing i'll recommend, is buy the ram your going to use all at the same time.
mixing and matching Ram types can lead to alot of unnecessary crashes (yes even under Unix based Operating Systems! before we get a penguin fanatic in here :P)

if you buy direct, brands i'd recommend are Kingston, Crucial and IBM
the best quality you can hope for on the public market.

to answer the question you asked however, this link will give you the information you require.
Voodoo Files ... a file called XS System Detect. It detects alot of your systems stuff, particularly ram and alike.

when i have more time i'll try and remember the CPU one i have on my home system - wish i had it infront of me, i keep thinking it's called CPUCool, but i'm sure it isn't (don't ya hate it when your memory starts to fade lol)

hope that helps

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:29 PM

It's a Gateway desktop, circa '98, Pentium II.
Pintless Raven, I don't see that file on the Voodoo site, but my brain is about ready to crash. I'll get on this tomorrow when I can think better. Thanks to all so far - I've got something to work with!

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:35 PM

sorry, couldn't seem to dig up that system detect utility up on the site - might just be looking in the wrong place thoough - picked up a few othre useful things there though - will probably go back again..

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:49 PM

You really have to pull one of the existing chips and bring it to the guy. Tell him this is what you want then return it if he makes a mistake at that point.

My guess, based on the age would be you are probably looking at pc100 sdram. Faster SDram is not usually a problem but DDR ram will likely not work on that system.

A good computer techie in your neighborhood can be worth his charge if s/he just makes your problems go away.

If you are dead set on buying a particular camera you might buy it first and see how well it works with your system. I've had reasonable success with windows98 machines so long as they have USB ports.

sigurd

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 10:53 PM

I would consel against the technically inexperienced removing memory chips and carrying them around - they can get static zapped and die if not treated correctly - especially while being acrried around...

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:00 PM

Given your question and the Fools postings...

Yep....no doubt...you are both "bottom-men."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:25 PM

camera REQUIRES XP???..*tsk*..be sure that is true. Do they think no one uses any parallel port anymore? Yes, a USB port is the way to go,(faster) but you 'may' have one already. Ask at the camera place what it needs and *why*....

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:25 PM

Sad that I once diagnosed a mail server malfunction for a large internet company who couldn't figure out what was wrong - from the other side of the world just by reading the mail headers, isn't it
:-) ...

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:46 PM

I think Crucial operate in the US as well as the UK. I have used the resource Malcolm gave a link for to look up memory and overall have found it good. I have been caught out though...

I wanted to upgrade the memory in Pip's Packard Bell Pulsar 21/h. When I looked it up, I found that it could take 66Mz SDRAM as well as the older 72 pin EDO SIMM. I thought at the time that I didn't remember a slot for SDRAM but the specs for Pip's machine appeared to match the ones given by Crucial so I assumed my own memory/or past observation was faulty and went ahead and ordered the SDRAM (in this instance from another compnay as I had other bits to order as well).

When the RAM arrived and I opened the case, I found my past thoughts about the insides to that machine were correct. Pip's machine will not take SDRAM. I suspect what she has is a sort of "crossover" (effectively a Pulsar 21 upgraded to the 21/H specs) machine and later machines may well have had a motherboard accepting both memory types. I did inform Crucial of this and they thanked me for the info but did not update thier site with my finding.

I guess the bottom line in my long ramble is that although I've no doubt Crucial try to be reliable and that we probably have an "oddball" machine, you really have to take the cover off and look to be sure.

Jon

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: moocowpoo
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:55 PM

Gargoyle, what did you mean to achieve by that comment?
If your head is bursting with knowledge, why don't you relieve some pressure and help Jeri?, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:05 AM

It actually requires 98SE or better, and I haven't seen a whole lot of places that still sell 98SE. If I get the camera, I'll try it with good ol' Win98 first. But I DO need more RAM. In my computer.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:24 AM

Jeri, just another thought. If you are going to play a lot with graphics and you can afford it, you would be better off getting a new machine (just the base - you could keep the old monitor,etc).

I put Pip's P200 (or there abouts) into retirement (well I sometimes run Linux on it) this year after my motherboard blew on my Alone 1Ghz. I repaired mine and gave it to Pip and got myself an XP2Ghz. I think it cost me under £300 to arrive at 2 very functional for our purposes (and much faster than the old P200) machines.

Jon

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:28 AM

That Site does not recognise Octek or Ocean either...

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:44 AM

Jon, I think I have the money to get either the camera I want or the PC, but not both. This one's old, but it's been very reliable. I'll think about it though.

I've read a bit about XP, and it doesn't look like something I even want in a box, 10 feet from the computer!

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: GUEST,NoGuru
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:59 AM

a quick google check for RAM SPEED NANOSECONDS yields...

Memory RAM Speed - Access Time, Megahertz (MHz), Bytes Per Second

Prior to SDRAM, speed was expressed in terms of nanoseconds (ns). This measured the amount of time it takes the module to deliver a data request. Therefore, the lower the nanosecond speed, the faster.

Typical speeds were 90, 80, 70 and 60ns. Older 486 machines may have 80 or 90. More recent Pentiums will have 60 or 70.

MHz Speed Total Clock Cycles per Second Divide by 1 billions to get nanoseconds per clock speed.

66 66,000,000 15
100 100,000,000 10
133 133,000,000 8

Often, the last digit of a memory part number will represents the speed such as -6 = 60ns.

SDRAM speed is measured in megahertz (MHz). Speed markings on the memory chips may still specific nanoseconds, but in this case in represents the number of nanoseconds between clock cycles. To add to the confusion the markings on the chips don't match the Mhz value. Here is a conversion chart.

To calculate bytes per second you need to know the Bus Width and Bus Speed of your PC. The first thing to remember is 8-bits = 1 byte. If you have a 64-bit bus, than 8 bytes of information can be transferred at one time. (64 / 8 bits = 8 bytes)

If your bus speed is 100Mhz (100 million clock cycles per second) and the bus width is 1 byte wide, the speed is 100 MB's per second. With a 64-bit width, the speed is 800 MBs per second (64 / 8 * 100,000,000)

Rambus modules are measured in megabytes per second. Rambus modules are either 400 or 300Mhz. Because they send two pieces of information every clock cycle, you get 800 or 600Mhz. They have a 16-bit bus width or 2 bytes (16/8). The 400Mhz module speed is 1600MB a second or 1.6GB a second. (400,000,000 * 2) * 2. The 300Mhz module provides 1.2GBs a second.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: treewind
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:52 AM

Oh good. That's all clear then.

I doubt if Rambus is applicable on a PII board.

The best way forward is to find out what make and model the motherboard is and then Google for it and/or look somewhere like Tom's hardware for info on the board. Another simple approach is to take out an existing memory module, note how many slots there were like the one the memory came out of, and take the existing module to the shop. It's most likely a 168 pin DIMM. The existing memory should be labelled with speed info, then you get some more the same speed but higher capacity. Knowing how many slots you had is to enable you to make a choice beteen 1 big one or two small ones and/or whether to keep the old one or replace it.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 06:55 AM

Kingston Memory for Gateway
Crucial Div, Micron: Memory Upgrades

Click on either of these, and you'll find a place to look for your computor. It should tell you, if you can get close enough to the machine you have, one or more part numbers for memory products.

Once you have part numbers, you may be able to search the web for best prices, but if its a common part, a local supplier may have what you need.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 07:02 AM

I'm getting an extremely slow load on the Kingston site for Gateway. The addy seems okay, but doesn't want to give me a direct entry. You might get in more quickly at the "home page," Kingston and select "Gateway" on their select computer screen.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 07:11 AM

I'd be inclined to agree with Anahata and see if it is possible to identify the motherboard. Maybe a case like mine with the Packard Bell is rare but it does show me that manufacturers can fit (and perhaps not even document) more than one MB for the same model!

A tool like Belarc Advisor could perhaps help in such identification.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:18 AM

Jeri

If you can identify a model number on your PC, the best way to find memory for it is to go to the Kingston site and get the part number they recommend. Kingston is probably the most commonly available in US stores. You can get the same information from Crucible, which is a division of Micron and is pretty widely marketed in both the US and UK. There are other good makers, and if your store stocks something else, put the brand name into Google and see what they've got.

If you can find a part number, you can use the "specs" for it to find a "replacement part" if the one listed isn't available. Once you get the "spec" for the recommended replacement, the guy at the store should be able to match them with what he has (or you need a different store.)

You do need to "look inside before you buy." A typical memory installation has four slots for memory, although a few old machines may have only two. If you have two slots and they're both full, you might, as an example, have two 8MB chips, for a total of 16MB. With the same two chips, and four slots, you could add two more 8MB chips and have 32MB. If all the slots are full, you have to take one out to put a bigger one in. You might find 4 slots but all full.

Chips come in 4MB, 8MB, 16MB, 32MB, 64MB, 128MB, 256MB, etc size. The smallest sizes are not too commonly around now, and the largest can get somewhat expensive. Because one "big-un" is usually more expensive than two "half as big," it's common to use chips in pairs that add up to the amount you want.

Most newer machines "don't care" how you mix sizes, or which slots you put the chips in. In some older machines, you must use the #1 slot, or the machine won't recognize any of it. If you remove a chip, you should put a new one back into the same slot just to be safe. Some old machines "like" to have all the installed chips the same size, although they'll usually recognize mixed sizes, so you can usually just add a chip of any suitable size if there's an open slot.

In a very few old machines, the memory was "banked," with slots #1 and #2 being one "bank" and slots #3 and #4 being the second "bank." Very rarely you had to have both slots of a bank filled, so you'd want two chips if you have two open slots. I haven't seen a machine with this requirement since my 486 died, but it needs to be noted.

You haven't said (that I noticed) how much memory you have now, or how much you think you need; but if you are planning to use Win98SE you should NOT try to use more than about 256MB. Putting in more than that makes the memory management system in Win98 "thrash itself to death" and will actually slow down the computer. (It uses all the extra memory trying to keep track of where it put stuff in all the extra memory.) My recollection is that 128MB was the maximum recommended for Win98, and I have run one machine quite satisfactorily (for Win98) with that amount installed, but if you think you might go to WinXP, 256MB is the minimum I'd recommend for XP.

There's nothing wrong with checking the mother board or using diagnostic programs to try to "spec out" your system; but the most direct, and simplest, thing is to ask one of the memory chip makers what to use based on the manufacturer and model number for your computer. If they don't give you an answer, then ask Gateway.

Note that the only component I've ever had an "ESD" failure with is memory (incompetent #@$% help). RAM chips are very sensitive to static electicity, so you do need to follow proper grounding and discharge procedures when you work with them. Never touch a RAM chip unless the other hand is touching bare metal on the machine you're working on, at the very least.

Back to basics: you're proposed digital camera doesn't require you to make any changes to your computer. The software that comes with it may need the change. Assuming that you have a USB port to plug into, you can get a "memory card" reader, probably for less than $20 (US), that will most likely work with your existing equipment. You take the card out of the camera and stick it in the reader, and copy the files from the card to your hard drive. Put the card back into the camera, and clear the memory in the camera and open the files (they'll be .jpg) with any image handling software you happen to have, or can add, on the computer.

The software that comes with the camera will likely do some pretty nice stuff, but you probably already have some other program on the machine that will let you do quite a lot with your pictures. Most people I know who do much with digital pictures abandon the camera's included software for something better quite quickly. Unfortunately, the best (IMHO) picture handling software is PhotoShop Elements 2.0 (about $40 US after rebates) and it does spec 128MB for Win98, so eventually you'll want a better machine.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:36 AM

Jeri - if you have service packed your win98 essentially you are at 98SE

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:46 AM

Win98 will handle up to 512MB of RAM.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:55 AM

MMario, thanks. I may be, then.

GUEST,NoGuru, that's exactly what the guy in the store was talking about. It's obviously not ALL I need to know. Next time I go back, I'll ask the guys in their service department, not the guy at the sales counter. (Spending 30 minitutes trying to figure out 'what went wrong' on the store computer during a sale to someone else does NOT inspire my confidence.)

John in Kansas, thanks. I wasn't sure if I needed to install the XP-preferring software in order to even connect the camera to the computer, and you've answered that. I have Photoshop 6.0 already. It occasionally crashes my computer...probably because I need more RAM - I currently have 128 MB. It occurs to me that when I order the camera - from Gateway - I can ask about RAM. It's likely to be reasonably priced and they ought to be able to tell me what I need.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 09:56 AM

Jeri, if you have a Gateway, go to the Gateway support site:
http://support.gateway.com/support/allsysteminfo.asp

Enter the serial number of your computer and it will look up what was originally purchased in full detail. Go to the "need to upgrade your computer?" link and it will show all the available products, based on what your computer already has. Lots of information available.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:10 AM

True, Malcolm, but it doesn't necessarily run better.

The memory management task, when you go to too much memory can actually slow down the Win98 system. With Win98, Microsoft published recommendations for maximum memory installation, usually far below what you could stuff into the machines that were current then. The big concern then was that Win98 was very slow with the "minimum required" RAM, so lots of people were upgrading to get it speeded up.

Microsoft continues to publish "minimum requirements" for new programs that are about half what it takes to make them usable.

With updates to the OS and some other changes in machinery, there may be new values, so it's a matter of trying it out to see what works. It is definitely a case where "your mileage may differ."

The recommendations originally published were based on speeding things up with relatively limited multi-tasking. Adding more memory than what's needed to run one task at top speed will let you open more tasks at once, but may make all the tasks run slower, even with only one open. It's pretty much a coin flip.

Many Win98 machines will run 1024MB, or more, but not too well. There's also a limit on what some BIOS will recognize, although most within recent memory will use at least 1024MB(?). Many new machines BIOS will regognize TB range RAM, but I don't know anyone yet that's gone quite that far. I can personally support the argument that 1024MB is better in XP than the 512MB on the machine next to me, although the other machine is perfectly suitable for most work.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:23 AM

Barbara - BINGO...DING, DING, DING, DING!!!
Prize awarded: I will say nice things about bluegrass music AND old timey music, I shall not confuse them, and I shall go listen to my recordings of such.

While all the suggestions would get me to the same place, that was certainly the easiest and fastest. They have a 'System Profiler' that can read your computer and tell you its current configuration.
I need "100Mhz 64Bit 4-clock CL=2 SDRAM UNBUFFERED DIMM"

Think I'll go for the cheaper camera/printer combo and the memory.

Predicting my next techie question: "OK...so I got this digital camera, and I'm soooo confused. Could someone tell me where the film goes?"

Thanks to all!

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:27 AM

Jeri -

Check to make sure you have a USB port. On a really old machine you may not have one.

Card readers that use a parallel port or an old serial port are available, but they can be hard to find. You can add a USB port to your machine if you have an open card slot, and I've seen USB cards in my local store for under $40, possible a lot less. If you don't already have the port, you'll probably want to add one anyway, to connect either the camera or a reader to download pictures.

I wish I had the full PhotoShop, but the PhotoShop Elements is fantastic, so I'll make do. For snapshots, the little brother may actually be more efficient, since a lot of things are sort of automated; but the software that comes with the camera isn't going to do anything you can't handle with PhotoShop, assuming you've mastered the driver's manual.

About the only thing I do with the software that came with my digicam is rename the images, since it defaults to add the date taken in the file name. If I rename (batch) in PS-Elements, it tries to put the date when I renamed them on the files, unless I go through a couple of extra steps to get what I really want.

PhotoShop does use a lot of temp storage space, and especially if your hard drive is pretty full, partitioned, or fragmented, you may benefit from some housekeeping and reassignment of temp space(s).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:35 AM

Jeri -

You got back while I was typing.

Yes, get some "extra film." Most cameras come with a fairly small memory card. You will probably want something a little larger if you're going to use it much. Most people do recommend a couple of moderate sized rather than one enormous. I got one 4x the size that came with the camera, and use it most of the time, with the original to use as the backup. They're easy to swap out, and will hold memory quite well - although not forever.

If you get more than one card, be sure to get a good box to keep the extra one in where it will stay CLEAN. The box the new one comes in will usually do.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:37 AM

John, I have a USB port. It's what my scanner was hooked up to until it died. I may eventually get another, as it seems lots of components these days connect that way.

I do need to clean the junk out and defrag my hard drive, although it's not that full. Defragging seems to fix a lot of mysterious problems. I WISH I could do that with my brain.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 10:59 AM

Jeri -

If your existing USB is the old style, you'd probably benefit from replacing it (or just adding) a USB-2 port, but one port is really enough.

If you connect more than one USB device, you should really get a "USB Hub." Plug the hub into the port you have, (or into the new and improved one you add) and then plug the other devices into the hub. It keeps the channels from getting all tangled up, but lets you add a half-dozen or so USB devices without getting cross-talk.

Some of the newer machines, with multiple USB connectors, actually have built in hubs, but some just connect everything to the same single port. The difference is whether you have four ports, two connectors on each of two ports, or four connectors to one port; and it isn't always easy to tell what you've got.

The main reason for all those connectors is so you can plug stuff that stays connected into the back of the machine, so all the spaghetti is out of the way, OR you can plug the camera into the front (and unplug it when you're done) where you don't have to crawl around behind the machine. On some machines, it is two connectors, but only one USB port, and plugging in two devices at the same time can cause interference. Quite often, you can plug two into the same port, and get by with it, but the hub makes it foolproof (if you're not too clever a fool).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Raven "Where's my pint"
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 11:27 AM

Ahh PentiumII ... my bet would be your using the 440LX/NX chipset, this means you'll be running on 66mhz Bus;
so what you'll need is 162pin DIMM/SDRAM 133mhz would be the best speed to go for, but really doesn't matter they'll all work the same.
try not to mix the ram is the only advice i'd give, so try and get 128/256/512mb all at once to make sure they're the same brand.

^_^ hope that helps

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 11:49 AM

John, my system devices include a "PCI to Universal Host Controller" and a "USB root hub". I'd guess I'd have to buy a thingie to plug into the hub port. Will it work as just another USB port, or should I buy a hub thingie? I already have enough spaghetti back there.

If it's supposed to be 'foolproof', I'm yer alpha-tester. (In fact I was invited to take part in just such an activity at work. I think they recognize the value in my skill to screw things up.)

I took the plunge and just ordered the camera and a 256 MB memory card. I'll defrag, then wait and see how it works with what RAM I have...at least until I get the money back from the rebates. (A 5 MP camera and photo-quality printer for $299!) At least I have some idea what to buy now.

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:28 PM

Jeri, I have 4 USB slots (one shared) but use a hub to save going round the back to the "spaghetti". As John has said, how these things are configured/built in the PC. What it means for me as I don't have front side slots is that the printer and scanner connect at the back and if I wanted to plug in any USB device like a camera, I can do so without grovelling under a desk - the little hub sits neatly on top of my PC case with the slots pointing forward.

My shared port BTW is used by a card reader that is fitted in the spare bay for a second floppy. I can read most cards without needing another device. It's just the way the PC came - I had previously invested in a small portable 6 in 1 card reader.

Jon

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 01:49 PM

USB lets you plug multiple devices into one "port," and if your machine has a USB connector you can probably plug about any USB device into it and expect it to work ok.

If you have more than one connector, you can probably plug a device into each connector, and the internal "USB root hub" should keep things straight.

The "USB root hub" that you see in Control Panel/Device Manager merely says that the "protocol" for controlling USB (the software) is installed. Any USB device that you plug into any available USB connector will be managed by the "USB Root Hub" software.

It's only when you run out of USB connectors that you need to think about adding a new internal or external USB hub. What's built into your computer should handle what you can plug into existing connectors.

A single hub, according to the spec, should be able to handle quite a few devices (I think it's at least 8 in the older spec, 16 in the USB-2 spec, but don't quote me before I look it up); but the hardware you have may or may not implement that many. It may be set up to handle just the connectors that the mfr put on the machine.

If you need another connector, you can put another USB card in the machine. The Plug and Play (PnP) in Win98 will find it when you reboot the machine, and you'll likely then have two "USB root hub" thingys in the machine. Any thing you plug into the old connectors goes through the old hub, and what you plug into the new connectors, on the new card, is processed by the new hub.

The other option is to get an external USB hub, which you plug into an existing USB connector. Then you plug all of your USB devices into the new external hub. PnP does about the same stuff when you reboot, so you may find new "protocols" on the machine. The main advantage is that most add-on USB cards have only one, or at most two, new connectors, but you can get the external hub with about any number you want.

Either way solves the problem for now, but if you get a hub with a generous number of connectors, it's pretty much solved forever. For most users, a 4-connector hub should be enough, but larger ones are available.

You can also locate the external hub where it's more convenient to get to than the back of the machine (unless your workspace is "a little cluttered" like mine, and it's always under something when you need to get to it.)

It doesn't make a lot of difference which way you do it, but if your machine has the older USB equipment, a new card to USB-2 spec would probably be in order. USB-2 devices that you connect to the old USB will work okay, but they'll work ten times as fast (theoretically) if they're connected to a USB-2 port.

If the new port card has enough connectors to do what you want, then you're done. Once you have a USB-2 connection, the external hub makes good sense when something's needed just to "add connectors."

The software that comes with the camera and/or with a card reader will set things up so that your computer knows how to "read them." What needs to be installed shouldn't be anything very large. The main difficulty with the stuff that comes with the camera might be getting drivers installed to read directly from the camera without installing all the rest of the picture editing stuff. With XP, just rebooting while they're connected should take care of it, although it might ask for a disk to get a driver from; but I'm not sure whether Win98 will recognize them without installing something more. If you plug the camera in and reboot, it should detect a "new device," and if you put the software disk in, it should find what it needs to let you move the pictures.

Once the Camera and/or card reader has been installed, you should have a new tiny icon in your System Tray for "safely remove hardware," if there isn't one there already. Unlike a floppy drive, where you can shuffle disks in and out at will, if you disconnect the camera or take the memory card out of the reader, your machine doesn't recognize a "no disk" condition, so it thinks something broke. You should always use the "safely remove" to tell it before you take the card out or disconnect the camera. No big deal if forget. It won't break anything, if you don't mind seeing error messages.

Your 256 MB memory card is probably good for about 60 pictures if you store them at max resolution and as .jpg. At maximum resolution, they'll probably be something like 900 KB per picture(?). That should make very good 8x10 prints, or larger; but you can probably set the camera back to a smaller default mode. At max resolution, 2 MP cameras make pretty good 5x7 prints and "passable" 8x10, and only use about 360 KB per picture. You'll probably find a "default" setting on the camera somewhere near that range, which would let you take 400 shots before you dump the camera memory. That's something to play with after it gets here.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: RAM Speed...huh?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:56 PM

I think this thread proves that while good answers are important, asking the right questions is essential!

I can't wait to get my hands on the camera, and I'm tracing this thread because there's some extremely useful information here.