Turn down the volume!

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: melodeonboy
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 12:55 PM

Your theory sounds quite plausible, Uke.

Another theory that I've heard (and it is only a theory: I have no proof) is that people drink more when they're not talking (or, presumably, engaged in an activity, such as darts).

In this case, loud music and/or tellies would increase profits.

It sounds believable to me.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 12 Dec 06 - 11:57 AM

No thanks! That is why my personal definition of folk music specifies that there be NO drum sets. Bongos, bohdrans, fine. But no drum sets. Unless they are played MOST subtley, like with Pentangle.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:37 PM

Get on stage with a drummer. Then the volume of EVERYthing has to go up. I am always amazed to see them fitting mics in the kick drums and over their kit, when playing a small venue. Like they need it.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 09:22 AM

My complaint about last night's house concert was not the gig volume per se. The singer sang un-amped. But the bassist who accompanied her did have an amp. And his enthusiastic bassing totally ran over her words to the point that we couldn't understand them.

This was a house concert that seated only about 25 people. The singer would have been fine without the bass altogether and with no amp. But *with* him, he should have played a much more subtle background allowing us to hear the singer and her guitar clearly. We left at intermission.

I have seen this tendency with other bassists, and it galls me each time. The bass is important. But it is not the star. Bassists who do not understand this should be drawn and quartered in a vat of salt water.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Jun 05 - 02:35 AM

It works well in restaurants too... if we wanted people to eat quickly and get out (lunch time, quick turnaround required), we'd put loud, fast music on. It makes people chew quicker and the volume gets them excited and makes them want to get out and do things. When the expensive dishes were served (after 7.30pm), we turned it down and put the slow, classical stuff on... people relaxed, ate slower and thus more, talked more to cover the silences and thus drank more.... They'd sit around more and drink the expensive brandies..... not what you want in a pub where you want fast turnaround and multiple bookings.

I suspect they do the same in boutiques and clothing stores so that you get in the club mood and end up buying clothes that will look fantastic on the beach or in the clubs of Ibiza, but absolutely ridiculous on the No. 15 bus to Paddington.

LTS

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Uke
Date: 31 May 05 - 11:55 PM

MaineDog - I agree, I remember loud volume music used to provide a certain physical sensation when I was tanked up student rock concerts.

As to the clashes between conversation, social life, music, these are really clashes of audience/patron/musician expectations. People may go to a pub to have a yarn - yet the band wants to be heard, wants to be more than just background music. Who is going to win that one - the one with a volume knob.

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet: They say that being irritated by loud noise is actually a symptom of hearing loss - it is your ears telling you to get away from potentially damaging frequencies and volume levels.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: MaineDog
Date: 31 May 05 - 10:02 PM

The trouble is that some people like the sound of distortion, like they used to get from Vacuum tube (valve) amplifiers in the old days. If the system doesn't produce distortion, they just turn it up more until it does. Even if they have kilowatts of power making us all deaf.

I heard a song about it at the Old Songs Festival a few years ago. It went something like

Mister soundman,
Turn me up loud---
I want to be heard
Over the crowd---

It also happens at dances and even in church these days.

Needless to say I am a great consumer of earplugs, but I hate having to
choose between conversation and safety.

MD

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Uke
Date: 31 May 05 - 09:09 PM

True Jacqui - though if you've paid to get in, you might put up with it. Beer, coke, lemonade... the more whistles wetted, the higher the take.

Another angle to this I heard from a friend's son who started an acoustic based Irish group, but found within 2 months they had to electrify and add bass and drums, a la your standard pub band, to get any bookings in licenced premises.

Now, you'd expect an Irish band is going to be noisy, but this was probably to add amplification possibilities of electric bass and a drumkit. The volume goes up, shouting ensues, throats get parched, liquid gets bought and downed. "Thems the paying gigs!"

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 31 May 05 - 08:46 PM

Loud music just drives me out of the pub and, since I would normally be driving and drink only water, for which the profit margin is unbelievably high, the landlord loses money!

(My son used to run a pub and loved those who drank soft drinks - he made a lot of money out of them!)

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Uke
Date: 31 May 05 - 08:13 PM

Here is a plausible theory I have heard about loud music volume, which applies to bars and pubs.

Essentially, on those nights where people are there for conversation, social enjoyment etc. as well as live music, loud volume means people have to shout to be heard by the person next to them. Sooner or later the throat starts to get dry (helped along by cigarette smoke) necessitating its irrigation by alcoholic beverages.

Loud music thus helps the bar sell far more beer than quiet music.

I wouldn't be surprised if venue owners haven't over the years encouraged increasingly high volumes through PAs. Certainly, I know one local bar where the manager is always helpfully fiddling with the sound board.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 05 - 06:53 PM

I thank you!

Waits for applause - as usual - not a sausage...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 May 05 - 08:18 AM

Too bad in your case it's not an act

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 05 - 07:51 AM

Acting dumb is a great Troll Act.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 May 05 - 12:07 AM

"Many amplified folk band these days play at an unhealthy volume."

... is the fist line of this thread... and it sounds like a lot of whining and sucking to me...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 May 05 - 10:04 PM

CH--

Sounds like you do not in fact understand the difference. If we are expecting to hear loud music, then fine, If not, it's not fine. Very simple.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 May 05 - 12:05 PM

"You are ridiculing us for wanting to choose when we hear loud music."

Oh, that's not what I'm ridiculing most here about!

:-P

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 May 05 - 12:01 PM

CH--

We are not ridiculing the idea that you (and we) like loud music sometimes. You, however, are ridiculing us for wanting to choose when we hear loud music.

I trust you understand the difference.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: C-flat
Date: 30 May 05 - 10:17 AM

The main problem with hiring a band to play in a small venue comes from the fact that most bands will have a drummer, or in our case, a drummer and lots of other percussion.
Even without mic'ing the drum kit, a common practice to enable tone-shaping, the drums are going to be loud and so it's inevitable that the other instruments need to be louder to be heard above that.
Add to that the vocals, which would neccessarily need to be louder than everything else and you end up with a sound big enough to rattle a few slates loose!!
You can only turn down so far without it turning into a shed-builders convention!

C-flat.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:41 PM

There are a BUNCH of things that probably cause tinnitus... loud music is NOT the only factor... (If it was, loud music would cause it in everyone... and it doesn not....)

I'd be happy to 'tolerate others viewpoints' if you weren't so high and mighty about them... But I find it's just easier to relate to such people on their own level...

"I would've given an eardrum to hear Sandy Denny sing back then!"
I'd give one of CNBs ear-drums to hear her back then too!
LOL

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 May 05 - 10:11 PM

CH--

A little tolerance for others' viewpoints, ( just a little) would not be amiss, even for someone as omniscient as your good self.

Ever heard of tinnitus?--it sounds like you will, rather soon.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 29 May 05 - 06:26 AM

I would've given an eardrum to hear Sandy Denny sing back then!

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: woodsie
Date: 29 May 05 - 05:06 AM

Reply to first post.

Fairport WERE a sixties rock band - I saw them in 1968 and they were loud then! Mind you the lot that call themselves Fairtport these days are a completly different bunch of blokes living off the reputation that those early pioneers built.

If I had walked out of concerts due to the volume being loud, over the last 40 years, I would have missed a huge slice of music history which I am proud to have witnessed first hand. Yes my hearing is a bit iffy these days - but it was worth it.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 May 05 - 02:26 AM

"We heard you the first time."

Obviously not...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 May 05 - 12:09 AM

Yeah, I noticed that too. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he had a paying gig on Friday and will have one on Sunday.

Of course, his level of frustration does not support his case.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 05 - 11:49 PM

If CH is has real gigs he must not be in too much of a demand. Here it is a Saturday night and he trolling on the Mudcat. I guess he fills in the gaps on Wednesday night Open Mike gigs.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 May 05 - 11:47 PM

CH--

Now you're recycling your old material. We heard you the first time.

(Well, at least it's ecologically sound.)

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 05 - 11:39 PM

"He is not in the least bit funny"

Who said I was trying to be... there are more than enough failled attempts at humour here on mudcat already...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 May 05 - 11:35 PM

"Lacking in wit"--I'm afraid there's not much to choose there between the two--but at least CH has real gigs.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 05 - 11:28 PM

As stated before, CH is nothing but a MG wannabe, but CH just comes across as an absolute boring pompous fool. He is not in the least bit funny, and is lacking in wit.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 05 - 11:13 PM

"many a public place has seen my backside."

Lucky for them... why don't you do us the same for us here?

Oh... right... We're not that lucky....

Oh well

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 May 05 - 09:39 PM

CH--

Somehow, CH, even without your mighty intellect there's a possible chance that we can (and did) figure that out.

Thank you, Apprentice "MG".

Sounds like you have the obnoxious stating of the obvious down pretty well.   Congratulations.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 05 - 09:21 PM

"There ya go, talking through your stupid hole again"

Ah - you've got me laughing again CH.... and GUEST...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 May 05 - 06:07 PM

No further comments. No point in feeding the troll.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 05 - 03:36 PM

That buzzing sound you hear is YOU, fuckwit.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: kendall
Date: 28 May 05 - 03:34 PM

I will not pay to be annoyed, and many a public place has seen my backside.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 05 - 01:21 PM

At a wedding reception, it's the call of the bride and groom... THEY decide (or should decide) how loud or quiet the music is...

At the fest, the organizers decide...

If you don't like what either of them chose... your choice is the door...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 May 05 - 12:12 PM

Really loud music, especially with a throbbing beat, can stir you up and turn you on. But everybody has a right to choose it or not--not to have it inflicted on you. That's probably why you, at the wedding reception, and I, at the Celtic festival, were not happy to have it sprung on us. It's a question of expectations. At the Celtic festival I was hoping to hear more of the words, and other instruments than electric guitars.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 05 - 12:10 PM

"Certainly a musician should have the right to play at whatever sound level he feels suits his music."
Exactly my point.... There's a time for loud, and a time for not so loud...

"They fill the room with noise to fill the vacuum in their brains."
My, what an arrogant, elitist attitude you seem to have...

"The younger people seem to thrive on it"
Your old world is rapidly ageing
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times...

"The constant need of being plugged into a cell phone and for portable video games or a blasting Walkman to isolate them from their surroundings are additional symptoms."
Why is it not rather, that they make the CHOICE to adapt their surroundings to suit their own tastes? Maybe if our (their) surroundings weren't full of obsolete, cranky old twits afraid of change, trying to tell them what they should and shouldn't do all the time, they'd be more willing to participate...

Some of you folks come off as the most cliché of "Old People" stereotypes... do you wear your slippers to the mall too?

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 May 05 - 10:29 AM

Careful, Ron. Next Clinton will wish a burned house, theft and terminal cancer on you. That is the level of his wit.

Meantime, I have been known to retreat from wedding receptions when the music causes blood to run out of my ears. The younger people seem to thrive on it. I simply don't understand but have a theory. The art of conversation is nearly dead among the younger crowd. You need only to read Clinton's posts to prove that point. They fill the room with noise to fill the vacuum in their brains. The constant need of being plugged into a cell phone and for portable video games or a blasting Walkman to isolate them from their surroundings are additional symptoms.

At 57, I admit I am getting old, prefer quiet venues and acoustic music, Musak free restaurants. But to each their own. If the noise offends, I leave. Certainly a musician should have the right to play at whatever sound level he feels suits his music.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 05 - 10:00 AM

It's like there's a buzzing noise in here or something...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 May 05 - 09:41 AM

Clinton H--

I understand that "Martin Gibson", branching out from his charm school, has a new show called "The F---ing P---Poor Apprentice". Object of the show is to be as crass and unpleasant as possible, and, secondarily, to sit around flailing at guitars and bragging about non-existant gigs.

You can't hope to attain the lofty stature of the host of the show in this pursuit--for one thing your gigs actually exist--but you are certainly a worthy apprentice.

Keep practicing.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 May 05 - 09:07 AM

"It's the amatuers who need volume."

There ya go, talking through your stupid hole again

-I- know TONS of pros who love to play accoustic, or through a LOUD PA...

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: kendall
Date: 28 May 05 - 08:11 AM

I kmow many pros who like little if any sound. It's the amatuers who need volume.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 28 May 05 - 07:26 AM

I've made a note of the song, I'll pass it on to Al & Sarah who take turns running the sound desk at Jagz!

RtS

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Rasener
Date: 28 May 05 - 03:22 AM

I have just moved to a new location for my folk club.
The very first evening was a week ago. There was no PA and I was concerned incase people at the back might not be able to hear.
To my amazement, I didn't need to worry. It must be one of the best accoustic venues going.
I sat at the back so that I could test the sound. It was perfect, I could even hear the artist talking with clarity.

I would like to say that I have been at gigs to see Queen, Status Quo etc. Enjoyed them very much including the volume. Have even been ten feet away from Peter Greens Speaker when he played with John Mayall. It was great and has its place.

However, I enjoy very much the accoustic side of things and find that I listen intensly to the music and really enjoy it.

There is a place for both, but loud PA at my club will not happen. With a good audience who want to listen, it isn't necessary - as is the case at my club.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 28 May 05 - 01:40 AM

I've actually done that on a few occasions.
It's VERY effective!

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 05 - 12:51 AM

Some years ago while watching a local muso work an unamplified room the following happened. He was doing old fashioned banjo - what I call "English Music Hall" 'plain' style banjo - no fancy picking, but he seems to be able to do that, just not the style he likes.

Loud chatter. He started off so soft that he was not heard, then built up to very loud. Suddenly he went very soft, and the whole room shut up and all eyes swivelled to him. He had them in the palm of his hamd with nmo chatter for the rest of the bracket.

It's called technique.

:-)

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: kendall
Date: 27 May 05 - 07:34 PM

We have a few places that are run by people with an IQ over 60, and that's where we go. One has traditional Chinese music and the other, a seafood restaurant, has no music at all.

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 May 05 - 02:30 PM

I really resent the way that shops have the music cranked up way too loud... I've had to resort to shouting at shop assistants because they cannot hear what I'm saying and don't think of turning down the music. It's got to the point now where if the music is too loud, I just don't bother using that shop.

And I wish the bloke down the block, playing some wailing Spanish blokes in the style of the Gypsy Kings would turn it down..... I can barely hear my radio!

LTS

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 May 05 - 01:52 PM

Then find somewhere else to go... Or stay home