P,P,& M on TV Tonight (10 Mar 04)

Subject: P,P,& M on TV Tonight 3-10
From: Dharmabum
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 05:36 PM

Just a heads up for anyone interested.
Tonight 3-10 at 8 p.m. channel 13,WNET,New York.(PBS)
2 Hour documentary on Peter,Paul & Mary.


             D.B.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: breezy
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 05:42 PM

lucky buggers

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:03 PM

Who are the lucky buggers - New York or PP and M?
Ray

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:04 PM

thanks for the warning... I mighta accidentally tuned in...

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Allan C.
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:11 PM

I saw part of it last week - presuming this is the one that is being used as a PBS fundraiser feature. It had some very good moments in it, one of which was when Richie Havens sang "The Great Mandella" with Peter. Tom Paxton made an appearance also as did a former member of the Weavers (sorry, can't recall the name.)

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: pdq
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:23 PM

If it's on PBS, at least it won't be sponsored by Geritol or DentuCream.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:45 PM

It is the perfect example of the what A Mighty Wind was about---a spoof of PBS fund raising.   How many times have they shown this and how many more times will it make the rounds of the PBS stations. In this area I am sure we can count on at least two more airings on the other two PBS outlets---aged Rockers were on the other day in their, probably, mmmmmth re run.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 08:10 PM

I hated myself for liking the songs in A Mighty Wind, and I hate myself for still liking Peter, Paul, and Mary. Is there a 12-Step group for the likes of me?

-Joe Offer, hanging his head in shame-

P.s. I also have to say that Noel Paul Stookey is about as nice a person as you could ever meet, and he was very generous to me when I was swept along with a mob of PP&M groupies in a past life. I think he liked the fact that I was not a groupie.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 09:25 PM

How many times have they shown this and how many more times will it make the rounds of the PBS stations.

Don't confuse this program with past PP&M specials. It's being shown for the first time in this round of fund raising weeks. As for how often it'll be shown in the future? Who knows?

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 09:57 PM

And I agree with Joe about Noel Paul Stookey. He is one of the nicest guys I know.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 10:16 PM

Great show. A decent documentary with terrific musical footage.   It was a good reminder of how important folk music has been in our lives and the changes it helped make.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Dharmabum
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 10:29 PM

I really enjoyed it.
Highlights;Ritchie Havens & Peter "The Great Mandella"
Dave Van Ronk"Nobody Knows You When You're Down & Out"

Glad I taped it.

   D.B.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 11:11 PM

I'm sorta with Joe, but not. Just how many of us first heard about Folk from them or their Ilk? Have to admit I still love them. Sorry, Clinton.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 11:23 PM

I too like PP and M. Richie is one of the greatest 'live' performers ever to come down the pike. Bruce M

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 01:36 AM

Back in the early days of online services, maybe 1990-93, I ended up in an online community on Prodigy that was a PP&M subgroup of the folk music forum. It was a nice bunch of people - most of the people were fans of the personalities, and I was the one in the group that knew the songs. I went to gatherings of the group in California and in Florida, and I got backstage passes for us for the PP&M concert that was the site of our California gathering. That group broke up when Prodigy started charging by the minute for service, and I followed some of the group over to a computer bulletin board that Noel Paul Stookey ran in Ellsworth, Maine. That group had some fans, but it was mostly local Maine folks, and I fit right in with them.

I visited the Mainers twice during my New England lighthouse hunts. The first time, Noel called a gathering of the whole group, and we had pizza together. The next day, I visited Noel's assistant Stu at Noel's office in the hen house in Blue Hill Falls, and saw all the PP&M platinum records on the wall. The following year, one of the Mainers invited me to her house for dinner, and I had corn-on-the-cob, Shipyard Ale, and THREE lobsters. During this time, I got backstage passes and free tickets whenever PP&M were in my area.

One time, I was invited to visit Noel before the concert, and he played a song for my date and me, a song he had just written. I didn't like the song - something about love and a jewel, but it was quite a thrill to sit right next to him when he was singing. He has one of the most beautifully resonant voices I've heard, and his guitar work is extraordinary. Over a couple of years, I had several e-mail exchanges with him about music, tech stuff, and theology, and I really enjoyed it even when I disagreed with him. He prefers jazz and the classic vocalists, the ones that sing the American "standards," and he said his favorite was June Christy. He also enjoyed folk music, but it wasn't his main interest. Nonetheless, he's a good performer - and his comedy routines are darn good. And besides all that, he's generous to a fault, and an extremely nice guy. Peter and Mary were nice enough, but they seemed a bit distant - but Noel was always gracious toward everyone.

I guess I've moved on, and I'm more interested in "traditional" folk music now. I haven't been to a PP&M concert since maybe 1995. I got their new In These Times CD and it's nice, but I probably won't listen to it very often. Still, it was a nice two or three years when I had regular contact with Noel and PP&M.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:13 AM

Sorcha's right, PP&M were my introduction to folk, and so, along with many others, I have a tremendous affection for them. I still have all their early albums, and occasionally refer to them for song information.
Essential listening on a Saturday morning in our household is 'Sounds of the 60's' on BBC2 presented by Brian Matthew. For those not familiar with UK broadcasting, Brian is a veteran DJ and used to present a Saturday morning programme back in the early 60's called 'Saturday Club' (makes sense) playing all the latest pop releases. It seems incredible that 40 years on I'm still listening to him on a Saturday morning! He must be about 120 by now!!
While it's great listening to some of the pop classics, I have to say that some of the stuff he plays is absolutely dire! Unfortunately this is the case with popular music, and always has been. No wonder my gaze turned to folk, and PP&M. Thank goodness they were there.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: KateG
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 07:48 AM

Saw the first half and enjoyed the clips of their early concerts. But then the interminable begging began, so I shut it off and went and got out my guitar...an instrument I took up c. 1967 under their influence.

I confess that I find PBS almost unwachable these days. Most of the time they are doing fairly dreary documentaries or britcoms, and when something interesting comes up...they're begging. In fact they seem to have so many pledge drives, that they've become more intrusive than the commercials on regular TV. My local PBS channel is 13 in New York City, other stations may be more reasonable.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: freightdawg
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 01:07 PM

We taped the show last night so we could fast forward through the pathetic begging. I thought the show was great, because it worked so much of the trio's own commentary alongside the music. I think they hit all the really significant songs, although I would have liked to have heard more from Peter concerning "Puff." I also would have liked to have seen more of their lighthearted stuff - the little section they had on children was great, but I wanted to see more of it.

As always, Paul's work on the 12 string on his "Wedding Song" gave me goose bumps. The story behind that song as related by the trio just made that song move way up my list of all time favorites. It is amazing how knowing a little more about a song can make it even more significant.

I also would have liked to have learned a little more about each of the trio's families, we saw pictures of Peter's and Paul's, and there was the shot of Mary singing to her granddaughter with Mary's daughters sitting nearby, but that too is a small quibble.

-time out for a rant- Why can't PBS do documentaries like this about groups and individuals without that infernal sappy begging every twenty minutes??!! They would go a long way toward getting a donation from me if they would REGULARLY schedule quality informative and entertaining shows such as this instead of just at begging time. Outside of Austin City Limits and reruns of Lawrence Welk, there are no music programs on our local station. Yet, when they want to mooch my money, out comes PP&M, John Denver, the Smothers Bros, etc. Same groups, same programs, same blah, blah, blah. While I love the music, I feel PBS is going way beyond condescension with this programing. I know I am probably preaching to the choir, but this really makes me mad.   -rant over-

I thought this was really a quality show, and for me at least, very informative and worthwile.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 01:20 PM

Freightdawg, your "rant" echos the very thoughts that crossed my mind as I watched the show. Seems like they only break out the good stuff when fundraising time comes around. I think what is wrong with public broadcasting probably would deserve a separate thread if only we could hear input from their side as well.

Last night I got to see the parts of the show I had missed. It really was quite good and gave context to a lot of the songs I have heard for so many years.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 01:39 PM

"Why can't PBS do documentaries like this about groups and individuals without that infernal sappy begging every twenty minutes?"

I am on the public board of the local PBS station and the simple fact is that pledge income has become so important over the years that the stations are force to do things to attract the non-PBS viewer. The regular PBS viewer either pledges every year or never pledges - it's almost impossible to tap that demographic any deeper. So they have been doing specials that are hopefully nostalgic - which is why concerts of music of the 50s and 60s are so popular. Healthcare and finance shows are also successful. When our station first showed the "Wrinkle Cure" guy (who is just creepy to me), we made an incredible amount of money. Suze Ormond and others also bring in good pledges, but unfortunately the shows are expensive - not the shows themselves, but the "Free gifts" for the pledging amounts. People are really looking for the videos, books, products, etc., but PBS pays wholesale for the products so for a $100 peldge, the station could spend $30. Not exactly a great return like in the old days of totebags and umbrellas.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 01:54 PM

I did miss a few minutes of it.... during the fundraising I ran out to the kitchen and came back after the next segment started.

As much as I enjoyed it, it really was an "authorized" documentary and the focus was on the music. I don't believe there was any mention of Yarrow's early 70's problems. Regardless, I would look to VH1 for that kind of a "behind the scenes" look, in reality this special was more of a retrospective as opposed to a documentary. It is about time we celebrate the music for what it was, and the program was far from the previous "folk" music efforts produced for PBS.

It is true, fundraising (which I believe is a quarterly event on PBS) is the time when they pull out the "gems" or high profile specials. Commercial television does similar stunting during "sweeps" week, the time of year where the ratings are set for purposes of setting advertising revenues. It is a way of life for broadcasters, unfortunately. While it would seem to make sense to have the regular shows broadcast so that the regular viewers can pledge, historically it doesn't work that way.   It has been shown that people need a "special" reason to donate - the day to day routine becomes an expected service and people forget to support it.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 01:58 PM

the "free gifts" are a reason I don't pledge (though I do contribute) - because I do NOT wish to condone or encourage that behavior. Granted - they probably get more contributions net even WITH the expenses of the "free gifts" - but it just hits me as wrong,wrong,wrong.

If I'm going to donate - I prefer the money ALL go to the cause - I neither want nor need a "kickback.

In a similar vien - I've seen many charity auctions where it seems people compete to get the best "bargain" - but the best charity auctions I've seen and attended, people just keeep bidding. I've seen $10 gift certificates go for $80. Now that's the way a fundraiser should work.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:37 PM

You can rip PBS but you won't see Peter, Paul, and Mary anywhere lese.

Peter, Paul, & Mary are a national treasure and for the ones who have decades of history with their music, it is a warm thought that they are still out there.

Subject: RE: P,P,& M on TV Tonight
From: freightdawg
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:11 PM

I guess this is thread creep...

I don't mind PBS fundraising per se. I wouldn't even mind it so much if they used their most popular acts to showcase during the fundraising efforts.

What I do object to is the manner in which they promote their fundraising. Without fail they will have some local person staring into the camera saying words to the effect of "...wasn't that a wonderful show? It is so great to hear music like that again, and the only place you can hear it is right here on ****, your local viewer supported PBS station."

And what I want to scream back at them is "AND I NEVER GET TO SEE IT EXCEPT WHEN YOUR BEGGING FOR MY MONEY!" They use the "quality programing" of the event I would like to see as a ruse to get me to contribute money to allow them to continue to provide quality programing that is, for all intents and purposes, never shown. That is what I refered to as their sappy, condescending fundraising style.

It's true the networks pull out all the stops during "sweeps" weeks. But, typically, it is just souped up versions of their normal schedules, with maybe a blockbuster special thrown in. Advertisers are smart. They are not going to pay for inflated ratings for shows that only appear 2 or three times a year. They want to know that the daily product of the network is going to continue to draw viewers.

That is all I am asking of PBS. If you use folk music to ask for my money, then give me a regular offering of folk music. If you use concerts as a way to beg for money, give me a regular offering of concerts. If you use documentaries and retrospectives of famous singers and groups, then give me a regular offering that includes more of the same.

Then, when you give me a PP&M concert to get me to contribute, I might be more willing to listen to your "advertisement" of continued quality programing.

And so, Blackcatter, I am sympathetic to your needs, and I do appreciate your feedback. However, someone somewhere (probably at the national level) needs to wake up and realize that if someone is going to tune in to PP&M just once every 4 months, they are not going to contribute to something they ignore the other 9 months of the year. The fact that such programs are good at fundraising might just indicate that the same (or similar) products would be very popular on a regularly scheduled basis.

Thanks, Joe Offer, for the neat insight into Noel Paul Stookey. Little tidbits like that are what makes checking in here so pleasurable.

Freightdawg