Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism

Subject: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 09:06 AM

Unfortunately, the other thread on anti-Semitism degenerated into personal battles that, ultimately, had little to do with the topic. Resurgent anti-Semitism, though, is too important a topic. I hope that this thread will be spared the trvialization that occurred in the other one.

Nat Hentoff, the brilliant columnist and life-long civil libertarian, has an excellent column on anti-Semitism, and the effect of Gibson's film on it, in this week's Village Voice.

An excerpt:

Aside from The Passion of the Christ—and how it may or may not play out in Europe—before the movie opened anywhere, a National Public Radio report on January 28 noted that "the 59th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz was marked yesterday with remembrances across Europe."

But not only remembrances. Sylvia Poggioli, NPR's first-rate reporter, noted that on the eve of Remembrance Day, "a poll [of nine European countries] on European anti-Semitism showed that 46 percent of those asked said Jews and their nations were different." (As historically the Jews have been the aliens within.) "And 35 percent said Jews should stop playing the victim for the Holocaust."

In view of the sharp resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe—not only among Muslims but also some intellectuals on the left—Poggioli also interviewed Gianfranco Fini, deputy prime minister of Italy, who said: "It was Europe that generated this monster and gave birth to this madness. . . . Anti-Semitism does not belong to the past. It can still reproduce itself in different forms."

Added Elie Wiesel: "If Auschwitz couldn't cure anti-Semitism, what will?"

This is not the time to sha shtil.

Here is the whole article.

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 09:07 AM

Sorry, I forgot to affix the BS: prefix.

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: GUEST,MAG at work
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 02:01 PM

I am living in a small town where anti=Semitism has been alive and well the whole 14 years I have lived here. This may be why I get a bit shrill on the topic from time to time.

And this IS from a now-retired leftie who thinks the Palestinians have gotten shafted.

I used to have a steady who happened to be Jewish. He was routinely called a self-hating Jew by Zionist types because he worked for reconciliation in the Mid-East.

It is a very complicated topic.

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: Amos
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 02:21 PM

Just because it is not the time to sh shtil does not mean it is the tiome to fire machine guns.

How about a time to exchange viewpoints without force?

A

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 07:18 AM

Anti-semitism is a virus and it mutates (Guardian, March 15, 2004)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:12 PM

Acts of anti-semitism are justified by an increasing number of "respectable" commentators, who accuse Jews of being the cause of their own suffering. This logic borders on apology of hatred; worse, it is a veiled threat that if Jews fail to oblige, nobody will stand by them in the hour of need. Instead of sympathising with the victims, anti-semites exploit the Palestinian cause to side with the perpetrators. Around the world, only Israel and the Jews earn such contemptuous treatment.

This last sentence, which I have bolded, is not true. In the US after 9/11, Arabs and Muslims received the same sort of treatment from many people. And even now in the US, Arabs and Muslims are the only ethnic and religious groups against whom it is, to an alarming degree, regarded as respectable to practice bigotry and prejudice.

Having said that, I will concur with the article in saying that violence should not be practiced against Jews because of the actions of the government of Israel. Nor should it be practiced against any other group of people because of the actions of other members of their particular group. Collective punishment is wrong in every context in which is appears.

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:55 PM

Somewhat sensibly said, Carol C.

However, all your defense of the Arabs and Palestinians makes me wonder how any woman can defend the most oppressive society/religion in the world when it comes to dealing with it's own women.

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 02:49 PM

My opinion of all organized religions is that they are too repressive in one way or another for my tastes. And there are different levels of repressiveness within each organized religion as well. Not all Muslims have repressive practices toward women, and some beliefs held by many Christians, and even some Jews, are repressive towards women.

But from what you're saying, it looks to me like you do endorse collective punishment. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on anti-Semitism
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 06:21 PM

Amos---right you are---discuss. But, pray tell, does one deal with fanatics that maim and kill and do not sit and talk?

This discussion can evolve into, perhaps, finding out what it is terrorists (all terrorists--Iraq,AlQuaida,etc;)want to accomplish. Yes---one person's Terrorist is another's Hero. No one who kills innocents, however, should ever be considered a Hero. Basically it is a cowardly act and if it is a suicide bomber he has his own selfish and mistaken motives. Again--not heroic. I will leave out the humor of the dissapointment they find at the Pearly Gates with no Virgins waiting for them. That could be a whole funny essay.

Wars were, historically, for land, political change, and such.   Today we seem to be in a state of colliding cultures harking back to the times of the Crusades.

If the purpose is for the Western nations to retreat and leave the world scene it would probably mean hunger and subjugation for the nations in which the aggressive cultures (read Terrorists) reside. Unfortunately many of these people have infiltrated and taken residence in countries with open societies. To the detriment of those nations it now turns out. Think of Spain and France for starters.

The Anti Semitism in France, it seems, comes mostly from Muslim quarters according to most news reports. It is true that historically France had its problems with bigotry and anti Semitism but from news reports it does seem that is not the case now. Hopefully.

Philosophically now----can you imagine that we go to the Moon and beyond and look down on this really small part of a universe and it is totally fragmented. But you don't see that from the Hubble.

Bill Hahn