NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27

Subject: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:10 PM

I'm rolling down to NYC the weekend of March 27th to have good fun! I'll be attending the chanty sing Saturday evening, 8 pm, at the Seamen's Church on Front Street at the South Street Seaport. Last year about this time I was able to attend this gathering and had a lot of fun listening to what people were doing and leading a few of my own favorite sea songs. I'll bring my trusty banjo and concertina.

I'll actually be rolling into town Friday evening, staying with my brother's family in Brooklyn. Sunday is pretty much taken up with doing things with assorted nieces and nephews. And Monday, it's back to Maine.

Any other Mudcatters planning to attend the chanty sing? I'll be meeting some folks early at the Radio Mexico restaurant for dinner before the sing; it's in the same block as the Seamen's Church.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 09:17 AM

If you'd like to go for a paddle in Jamaica Bay [weather permitting] on Saturday or Sunday, let me know.

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 02:24 PM

Eric-

I may be hanging out with my brother's family in their new club out in Red Hook. Sounds like an appropriate spot to raise a drinking song or two but if I know my niece and her husband they're probably featuring something contemporary and very loud!

Jamaica Bay sounds like fun but a bit early in the season.

Will I be seeing you down at the Seamen's Church?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 04:54 PM

Well, I've heard from Bilge Rat and Al as well as Eric. Hopefully there will be a few more folks attending the chanty sing this Saturday.

Looks like great weather for the run down to NYC tommorow, but I never look forward to navigating solo to Brooklyn. However, I've got lots of CD's to play in the van and a few songs to polish up to keep me awake. Whoops, did that sign say "New Jersey Turnpike"?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 08:49 AM

Rude of someone to burn the bridges out in Bridgeport, CT, but I guess I'll find some way to make my way around the area.

On the raod again!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From:
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 03:08 PM

When is the APRIL sing ?? I'm planning a weekend-only trip CA>NY for 4/23, and was curious if that was the day.....the SSSP Website give no mention.   Riggy

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 08:53 PM

Well, I'm here in the big city on schedule, having detoured around the burned out bridges in CT. Someone took my reserved parking space in front of my brother's place in Brooklyn. What a drag! Tommorow, it's off to the South Street Seaport Museum to check out what's tied up dockside. Rumor has it that there's a new Dutch tall ship there and if she's the one I'm thinking of she should be a beauty.

I'll probably be at the Radio Mexico restaurant around 6 pm or so, assuming that's where people are still gathering before the chantey sing.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: GUEST,EBarnacle
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 09:12 AM

If anyone gets down there early enough, invite the Dutchmen to the sing.

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 10:00 AM

Eric-

I might try that later this afternoon. However, maybe someone has already thought of inviting them.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 01:09 PM

Yum! Recalibrated my taste buds with a nice lunch of Mideastern food, shiskabab sandwich with stuffed grape leaves, just a block from where my brother lives.

Now it's off to see nephew and his wife before they fly off to the Mideast for another foray of investigative reporting. Wonder if they'll listen to advice from their favorite uncle? Doubtful.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:30 AM

Well, I got down to the South Street Seaport area with banjo and backpack full of concertinas. Lovely weather in the high sixties. I was able to drop the banjo off early at the Seamen's Church office; a nice lady there said she'd take good care of it. And then I went back to the wharf area to admire the two big sailing barks, the Peking and the Wavertree. They were both built back at the end of the 19th century and repesented the state of the art at the time for speed and cargo capacity. I'd toured them both before so I decided to just hang out in their vicinity and practice concertina, and entertained a few tourists in the pocess. There was no point in checking out the shops in the adjacent pier; none of them has anything to do with the sea, just the usual mall stuff.

A little after 6 pm I wandered down the waterfront past the wholesale fish markets, and then turned up the block to the Radio Mexico restaurant and was delighted to spy Al and Frank seated at a table, and settled in for some more brew, something to eat, and sea music yarns. Eric (EBarnacle) showed up a little while later and about 7:30 pm we rolled on down the street to the Seamen's Church for the Chantey Sing. I'm still not sure how the Seamen's Church functions. It's still seems to be a church affiliated residence for some folks, a counseling center, a museum with some great ship models, and a space for a varity of special events. My banjo was still there, I'm delighted to report, and I settled down for a long evening of singing. What joy!

The format of this session is loosely structured with Jan (Bilge Rat) acting as primary host, encouraging some folks to sing, and things initially got started in a rough circle in turn with about half the 20 people leading songs. Later people broke in with songs more spontaneously that were generally reactions to someone else's song. There was one 20 minute break in the middle where people could buy a beer at the bar (in a church!) or partake of other light refreshments.

I got to sing about 6 songs: West Indies Blues, The Wreckers, Cowardly Act, Mariner's Compass, Yangtse River, and Outside Track. Al had a nice sng about the Wavertree that I'd like to get a copy of. And Jan had a great song about the WW II battle between the German commerce raider Spree and a liberty ship the Hopkins in which both ships were sunk; it's still an incomplete ballad but it's already a powerful song. Frank is a master at leading traditional sea shanties. Eric led a drinking song that I'd like to get a copy of and an original ballad or two. Someone else led the tragic ballad of the polar bear whose family was lost in the collision between the Titanic and an ice berg, which led to more Titanic songs, and of course to my song of the falling cow that sank a Japanese trawler. There was not a dry eye in the house. Ali from the Johnson Girls showed up fresh from a concert on Staten Island to sing the final song, was it Rolling Down the Bay to Juliana? It's still all a blur. Someone actually purchased one of Roll & Go's CD's, the proceeds which I'll dutifully deposit in the corporate account when I get back home.

Al was kind enough to drop me off at my brother's house in Brooklyn after the session, with me providing navigations hints as we sang snatches of songs, and shared more sea music gossip. It is a minor miracle that we didn't lose our way, given that we weren't really focusing on where we were driving.

Lots of fun all around and it seems likely that a car load of folks will be rolling up from NYC in April to join the 3rd Saturday Shanty Swap at the Press Room in Portsmouth, NH. More joy to come!

Eric, please fill in with corrections of the above and with additional notes!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, whose voice feels a little rough this morning!

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: KateG
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:21 PM

If I remember correctly, Seamen's Church Institute was founded in the 19th century as a mission to sailors by the Episcopal Church. Trinity Church on Wall Street is the mother church of the parish and is immensely wealthy despite having no parishoners...it owns huge chunks of real estate all over Manhattan for which it receives ground rent. The Institute functions as a mission, education center and dormitory for visiting seamen when they are in port. It's one of the places commercial mariners can go to take the classes that will allow them to upgrade their license (be it in cargo, engineering, navigation, whatever).

The Institute has an incredible collection of ship models and maritime folk art, most of it made and donated by seamen who stayed at the mission or who were aided by it in some way (for instance there is an emergency fund for seamen who have been rescued from wrecked ships).

When I was South Street Seaport Museum's exhibits curator, we borrowed a huge and wonderful ship model from them (about 10 feet long and five feet high) that had all the lines and standing rigging of a working ship. It was made in the 1880s and used to teach apprentice seamen the ropes before they went to sea. It was very plain and not really to scale, since the rigging had to stand up to real use....but everything worked. At that time they still had their building down at the south end of Water Street, and I vividly remember the agony of backing a large rental truck into their loading bay.

I'm glad the Peking and Wavertree are still doing well. It's been years since I've been back, but the old girls still have a soft spot in my heart.

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 08:22 PM

Kate-

You may want to check back with any old friends about what's actually going on at the South Street Seaport Museum. The long term director is being replaced and hopefully will be able to mobilize more resources and redirect them on ship maintenance, educational programs and other activities.

The staff are doing some good work on Wavertree but the Museum is desparately trying to get rid of the Peking. Sending Peking back to Germany may be in the ship's best interest in the long run. It does take a lot of resources to properly maintain two large ships. What I can't figure out is why other maritime museums I've visited in the last two years appear to be doing such a better job of doing their work.

Of course my favorite museum is the Mystic Seaport Museum.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: KateG
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:05 AM

Charley,

I'm not sure anybody is left from my sojourn at SSSM, the place has an appalling turnover rate. I was there between 1982 and 1987 when the district was in transition from a run-down fish market to a "festival marketplace" in which the Rouse tail was most definately wagging the museum dog. (If our paths ever cross, stick a drink in my hand and I will spin you some yarns!)

Peter Neill arrived shortly before I left, and on the whole I think has done a pretty good job. After all, the Lettie G. Howard is sailing agin (in my day, we checked every morning to see if she was still afloat, and on at least two occasions she wasn't), the Museum has proper facilities for education programs, exhibits and collections storage, puts on a pretty full schedule of education programming, etc.

Peking is problematic, because she never sailed to or from the Port of New York. But I will never forget the frigid January I spent preparing a measured drawing of every chip, dent, paint line and rivet hole in the overhead of the Captain's cabin as the first step to reconstructing that space. And I think my exhibit on the ship and the men who sailed her is still in place in the old crew quarters....probably long overdue for replacement by now.

Unfortunately, it will take a miracle to fund SSSM adequately. Ship maintenance and liability insurance are the black holes of Calcutta which suck up every dime raised (and those ships are like cars, they know when you have a little extra money in the till and promptly develop a problem to remedy the situation).

I agree with you about Mystic, it is a lovely place. But there is something about being out in New York harbor on the Pioneer....

Regards,
Kate

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:55 PM

Back in Maine after a peaceful drive up I-95. Lots of quality time to listen to some of my sea music CD's and polish up a few newer songs.

Thanks again to all the people at the Seamen's Church who made that evening of singing so wonderful. And I'll be looking forward to seeing some of you at the Press Room in Portsmouth, NH, for our next shanty sing on Saturday, April 17th, from 3:30 to 7:30 pm.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 09:35 AM

Yer report seems pretty accurate.
Seaman's Church has been through several incarnations but has always kept to its primary mission with a strong outreach and advocacy role. There has been a strong element of taking care of distressed seamen, especially those who are the victims of rapacious owners and captains. In its original incarnation [possibly the first several] it was a church on a barge. It maintained a dormitory for those who didn't wish to take their chances with the traditional 'boarding houses."

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:54 PM

While I was over on the Brookyn side, my nephew took me out to the Red Hook neighborhood where he and his wife are operating a large music hall, appropriately known as "The Hook." They've renovated the former music place that was there and it seems to thrive on the nights it's open, from Thursday through Saturday. The format varies from country to rock but it might be available for other musical special events. I love the old brick warehouses nearby with their curved black painted iron doors. And I wonder about the sunken lightship, with its masts sticking out of the water. Like much of the neighborhood, it's really hard to get to by public transportation, and probably dangerous to walk through at night. But if you're interested in more details, PM me.

It's a good thing that I'm too far away from NYC for more involvement!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: KateG
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 02:40 PM

EBarnacle - Thanks for confirming that the Seamen's Church Institute's first church was on a barge. I was looking through my references before I wrote my first post, because I thought I had a picture of the barge church...all to no avail. If I remember the picture we used in our exhibits was of a little wooden gothic church sitting on a standard barge. Very quaint....the church looked like it belonged in a wildwood valley, not in the stews of NY harbor.

And I agree with Charley, those old Red Hook warehouses are gorgeous. What is it about 19th century industrial architecture? Labor relations may have been dreadful, but the buildings are wonderful.

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:46 PM

Kate-

A lot of the nicest warehouses appear to be held by one owner, whose name escapes me. Hordes of artists are occupying many of the warehouses now and some space is dedicated for periodic displays of their work. The whole area appears to be in an early stage of conversion from industrial to commercial/residential, with the arts as marginal economic activities leading the way. The views of the harbor and the Manhattan skyline are exceptionally good. There are still a couple of neighborhood taverns that look really interesting, survivors of another time. I'm not sure what the "big plan" for this area is, but I'm sure I'll never recognize the neighborhood if I don't see it again for five years.

Too bad I missed the visit by the Dutch tall ship. Anyone beside Bilge Rat catch her?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:41 PM

The warehouses are landmarked. Within that rubric, there shall be a lot of change. Some of us, myself included, support Fairway Supermarkets coming in and providing a service for a massively underserved neighborhood.
Greg O'Connell, a retired NYC detective, leads an organization which does its best to balance the needs of the local power structure, the arts groups, public service groups [like Floating the Apple] and the real needs of the immediate public. I have no problem with his getting rich for looking ahead. He's doing well by doing good. He recently managed to land a crooked politician in jail by refusing to knuckle under to a demand for bribery. He's a good guy to know and worth cultivating.

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:41 AM

Eric-

"Greg O'Connell" is the one my nephew Jon was mentioning. Such "redevelopment entrepreneurs" are generally one of 3 types.

There's the one who acquires the land cheap, persuades others to invest in a showcase development, and then makes a bundle selling out his interest, moving on to his next market. The project then usually implodes, further devastating the neighborhood and bankrupting the investors.

The other extreme has a similar end result, but the original entrepreneur is more naive. His redevelopment is undercapitalized, premature for the market, and he ends up bankrupt along with the other investors.

Then there is that rare individual that makes it all work, for himself, the other investors, members of the old neighborhood, and the adjacent neighborhoods. I hope that O'Connell is one of these rare individuals. But what a train to ride!

If you scout out The Hook music hall, give my regards to Jon and his wife Julie. They're pretty nice folks. They also run the Last Exit bar on Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: EBarnacle
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:48 AM

Speaking of trains/trams, the trolley enthusiasts who are trying to bring restored trolleys back to Brooklyn are headquartered there, too.

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 02:37 PM

Eric-

True, there are still some trolly cars tarped up by the water's edge but Jon was saying the group was running out of steam, or looking for another location that the public could get to easier. Too bad, the site looked great but as I've said above it's difficult to syncronize dreams with resources, energy and common sense.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: NYC South St.Foray-Charley Noble-3/27
From: KateG
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:55 PM

Speaking of trolleys, by way of thread creep. I had a boyfriend in college (early 1970's) who's grandpa took a youthful trip from Washington DC to Maine by trolley, riding each one out to the end of the line and then getting on the next. I don't remember how long it took, but he would have SEEN the country.

Philly still has them (or did), they were much cleaner and quieter than the busses, but the tracks made life interesting for cyclists.