Small (portable?) PA Systems

Subject: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: dwditty
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 12:49 AM

A search of the forum shows this topic may not have been discussed for a while. and the landscape has changed considerably. I generally perform solo - vocal mic, acoustic w/fishman pickup, occasionally an added guitar mic. There seem to be several choices for small and somewhat portable PA's (something a solo performer can lug and set up easily), but the reviews of these products make it impossible to tell if they are any good as they run from terrible to wonderful. For example, Peavey has the Escort, Fender the Passport Series (considering the PD-250 - the "enhanced" version of the original). Does anyone have any experience/advice with these type of systems. Or, are there better choices in the $500-1000 (US) range? Thanks.

DW

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Damon
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 05:00 AM

Hello DW

I've been using the Peavey Escort(2000) system for 18 months or so, and for the money it's good value.

In our set-up we just have vocals through it, but it's up against four loud 15 year olds on guitars, bass and drums and copes fine!

I've tried my acoustic through it, but I use a cheap soundhole type of pick-up so the results aren't great. With a good pick-up it should be ok.

damon

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Lanfranc
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 05:24 AM

I, too, use the Peavey Escort, with a separate 4-channel powered mixer it copes with guitar, electric fiddle, mandolin, melodeons and two voice channels. Good value for money, robust construction and reasonable power make it adequate for most gigs IMHO. Plus it's easy to shift around and fits in the car boot (trunk). We use Peavey, Turner-Conrec and Shure mics, Shadow and Fishman DIs.

In my youth we got away with a couple of Vox AC30s and a 20w Linear Concord PA with Reslo ribbon mics. Perhaps audiences were quieter then!

Alan

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 05:58 AM

A query-
Has anyone tried using self-powered computer speakers for portable amplification? Price, certainly, is right.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:27 AM

Dick - yes I have - I use a pair for foldback and they're fine. They're just about OK for a portable PA, but as they're mains (230v over here) powered, I have to use an inverter to run them from a 12v battery. I usually use a Car booster amplifier (40w RMS per channel) with a small battery powered mixer.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: GUEST, Hamish, no cookie
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:08 AM

I like my wee AERs. I have two 60w: but for solo guitar + vox one can work fine with no extra bits and pieces. For bigger combos I can add a mini Behringer mixer and the second AER. And the Behringer's neat: effects loop 'n' all.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: mooman
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 09:40 AM

I used to use a small PA but have now changed to a setup similar to Hamish's (except I use Laney 65W acoustic combos) boosted, if necessary with a Behringer 60W bass combo. One Laney alone (it has a XLR vocal channel) filled a reasonable-sized hall a couple of weeks ago for Patricia and myself (vocal and guitar) doing some jazz numbers.

The AERs are ace (as are Ashdown amps) and tiny (I would love to use them) but quite pricey.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: treewind
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 10:47 AM

I'd have thought most computer speakers weren't powerful enough for performing PA. Whatever power rating they claim, you should divide that by at least 10 for a realistic figure.

Computer speakers are good value if you're travelling and want an instant hotel-room sound system based on a minidisc, personal CD or MP3 player. Just plug speaker jack into headphone socket and away you go!

Fender passport : I used one a few years ago now, and all I can say is you should try one out and listen to it carefully. It's a clever idea, but I wasn't hugely impressed by the sound - the speakers especially are a bit of a compromise to make them portable. The new one may be better, for all I know.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: dwditty
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 04:19 PM

Dar,

At the advice of a friend, I took my guitar into Guitar Center to test the new Bose PAS.....WOW, and only 3 times the price. I remarkable sound in a highly portable package.

www.bose.com

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: ddw
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 10:33 PM

DW —

I recently bought a Kustom Profile System One rig that is highly satisfactory. It handles four mics and four lines (from instruments or whatever), has enough bells and whistles to give it all body and fits into a single case that's on wheels — all for about $800 Cdn (about $550 US. I know several others who have been using the system for longer than I have and I've never heard anybody say a bad word about them.

Check it out http://www.kustom.com/products/profile/profile_system_one.asp here.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: GUEST,maryrrf at work
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 08:59 AM

I bought the Fender PD250 a couple of years ago and couldn't be more pleased. It has handled outdoor performances, very large, noisy rooms, and everything in between and I've received tons of compliments on the sound. I've lent it out to other musicians and they've been delighted too. At our gig on St. Patrick's day there were a couple of musicians on before us with a pretty pricey sound system (I know because we'd discussed it). They couldn't be heard at all over the din - they sounded muffled. I set up the Fender and we came through loud and clear. Also, it's very, very easy to use - the controls are well displayed and you can find what you're looking for even if the room is dim. It only has the four inputs, but there are two stereo inputs that with a bit of fiddling around can be used in a pinch. I've hooked up as much as a four man band with instruments. What we usually do (we're a trio) is bring along an extra mixer and plug it in so we all have enough regular inputs.

I think the Fender Passport 250 is a great bargain. The only drawbacks are that it might be nice to have more than four inputs, and also it technically is portable (it fits together like a suitcase) but it is pretty darned heavy. A guy can usually carry it around like a suitcase, but I can't. Oh and it comes with speaker cords and two Fender mikes which sound fine to me. My partner uses a Shure and I can't tell the difference.

I'm a highly satisfied user. And it came in at well under $1000 - that's including the mike stands, speaker stands and extra cords that I bought.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 11:50 AM

I know people with the Peavey and people with the Fender.

I think the former knocks the socks off the latter.

Careful shopping can also get them very cheap, about 300 GBP.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 01:16 PM

Does anyone know how the Bose PAS (sound system on a "stick") works, or would work, with the one mic system now preferred by bluegrass groups? Seems to me there might be a feeback problem with the sound emanating from behind the mic and all those bodies dancing around it ??

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 01:25 PM

Do they still make the Pigsnose?
John

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: dwditty
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 01:37 PM

Les, If there is a Guitar Center Store nearby by, go test drive one. The is no feedback, and I have no idea why. The manual is available in PDF on the site. They recommend placing the mic from 3-7 feet away from the stick...with 7 being the preferred minimum distance. A friend has used one for several months and raves about it. Bose has a deal on their site...no payment/no interest for 12 months AND a 45 day trial. They will pay the return shipping if you don't like it...no questions asked. The sound is amazing!

dw

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: dwditty
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 01:40 PM

BTW, be sure to get the package with the sub-woofer. It makes a big difference, even for an acoustic guitar.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: GUEST,Seamus Kennedy
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 03:24 PM

DWD, I just bought the new Bose system a few weeks ago, and I really like it. Eminently portable, 5-minute setup and breakdown.
Great sound. I perform in some larger venues, 500-600 people and on stage behind me, this fills the room.
I'm a solo with vocal mic and acoustic/electric guitar, and I found that I did not need the sub woofer.
I've used Bose speakers professionally for the last 30 years and I've found them completely reliable, hard-wearing and long lasting.
I also have a couple of pairs of the 402s which I love. I use them in venues where I have to play around corners - L-shaped rooms for instance..I have a pair I'm looking to sell and they might be ideal for your setup. I use a small Peavey powered mixer in the 600XRD model range to drive them. Again they are light, portable and powerful enough for most gigs outside of large concert venues.
If you PM me here, we could talk about it more.
All the best.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 03:58 PM

Seamus, I have heard wonderful things about the Bose, and our sound guy wants to try them. The only problem I have with that is that in a 5 piece, 11 instrument band, I am concerned about the players mixing there own sound. I think it is very important to have a sound guy who is sitting there mixing the sound. Avoids the old "lead guitar" syndrome.

Mick

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 04:46 PM

Big Mick - I share your concern about "self mixing" - I've seen some big name groups get terrible sound by cranking up their own amps so they could hear themselves. Guitars screaming, horns blaring, and the poor vocalist, who didn't have a knob to turn, was lost in the chaos. Remains to be seen, but at least Bose is being innovative.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 07:34 PM

Bose have always sounded like a hamster with a megaphone, in stead of a live lion.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:04 AM

Richard, I respectfully disagree. It depends on how they're amped and mixed.
Mick, a legitimate point.
The new system probably would not be the best for your band.
But they DO sound good.
DWD, please PM me here as I have a spare pair of 402s for sale that may fit your bill.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: The Barden of England
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:34 AM

I've had a Peavey Escort for a year now and couldn't be more pleased with it. It even got used in an emergency at an outside festival last year and coped really well all things considered. It does need an extra mixer however if you are using more than 2 instruments and 2 mikes, so great for a duo, not so great for more than that. And as Richard Bridge said earlier you can get one for under £300 these days. I would recommend it anyway

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: GUEST,Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:43 AM

There's been a great deal of talk about the Bose system on The Bottom Line, a bass-players discussion list. The concensus there (& please keep in mind that this is only my interpretation of it) is that they have a slightly discontinuous sound spectrum - a variation of Richard Bridges' observation, perhaps? - and that Bose has good-sounding ideas, but is more of a triumph of promotion over substance.

The expense factor is considerable (one complete unit for each performer, isn't it?), so I thought I'd pass this on even 'though I have no direct experience with Bose myself.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: wilco
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:45 PM

I use two systems:
1. Kustom Profile System 1, for $240.00, from Musicians Friend in 2003.
2. Crate 30 Watt Battery operated system. It's bright yellow, and it's name escapes me. $175.00 from a local music store in 2003.
   Both have been great for me.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: GUEST,Opala
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:48 PM

Ref the Bose PAS - has anyone used it as a one-man-band configuration with: vocal, guitar and drum machine all through one unit? In the market for a new system and would like to have a smaller setup. The Fender PD150 has been great to date. Thanks

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: dwditty
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:11 AM

I have the Bose on a 45 day trial, which you can find out about at www.bose.com. Vocals (Shure SM58) and acoustic guitar (with Fishman Rare Earth Blender) both sound amazing.   I added reverb to the vocals and found the people at Bose very helpful.

A friend of mine approaches your one man band requirement - Vocal, guitar, bass drum, hi-hat all through one PAS with spectacular results. You can visit Dan and www.DanStevens.net

dw

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:18 AM

dw, did you find that you needed the subwoofer?
I didn't. And my Tak comes throug? nice and bassy.
Although, Opala, you may need the sub if you run drum machine through it.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:24 AM

Seamus, sounds like it works well in a single, duo, but I wonder at using this system with 5 members. Seems like you would have problems with different ears hearing a different mix. Waddya think?

Mick

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: dwditty
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:17 AM

Seamus, I did wind up getting the single bass package. I took my guitar to Guitar Center and tried it with and without. I am not one of those who thinks "cranked" up bass = good sound, but, oh man, dropped D tuning sure sounds great.

Mick, I think you have a good point....all but the most disciplined players should not have their own remote control to "adjust" there sound! I read where the system worked very well in the "bluegrass style" where players gather around a mic and step in for their solos, etc/ There is a good example of this technique (although not with the Bose) at www.woodsongs.com - The Doyle Lawson show.

So far, I give the unit thumbs up. I have read lots of techno-speak bashing Bose as being a company putting out so so products under great marketing, but to my ears and those who have heard me play through it (does anything else really matter?) it sounds great.

dw

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:09 PM

Mick, you can run a seperate mixing board into it, and control it from there.
So a 5-piece could do it, and, depending on the guy running the board, could sound great.
I think that the instrument and vocal seperation would be just fine..
All ears would be hearing the same mix.

You would need a sound man though, preferably one who is not sleeping with a band member, and who would like to hear the bedmate over the others! *BG*

You don't need a monitor because the sound source is behind/beside you on stage, but if one bandmember wants to hear him/herself over the others that would present a problem; obviously because that person would want to be louder in the mix.

You guys would need the subwoofer which is surprisingly small and light.

dwd, I agree with you on just about everything, but I have seen Mick's band, and there ain't no way they're gonna do bluegrass style round one mike.
The choreography with the hammer dulcimer alone.....*G*
And dwd, there are a lot of Bose bashers out there who've never used them.
As a fultime working musician, I want small, light, portable and powerful equipment, so the Bose will do until they come out with a pocket-sized PA system that can fill a 500-person tent at a festival, or a small theater, or Elks lodge, etc. etc.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:49 PM

Doug Hudson and Ian Cutler use Bose. Doug is the capo di tutti capi in the folk mafia round here. (Don Thompson is of course the don, and I assume in Wales they are called the taffia). Works all right for them.

But I do not think 6th order band-pass systems produce bass that sounds like real bass. To my ears Bose sound less like the original sound of the voices and instruments than many other things. Very syrupy, oleaginous, but not natural. I don't use them (don't want to) but have heard plenty.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Opala
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 12:20 AM

Thanks for all the input. Really helps my decision. I think I will give it a go. Will post a note after a bit. Thanks again.Op

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: C5cittern
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:46 AM

Any of the powered speakers like the Opera range seem to be a great option. With a suitable mixer and mics you can then cope with any number of musicians.

I have been using the 15" opera's for a year or so now and am very pleased with the simplicity and portability.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Gypsy
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 02:09 PM

Time to refresh this.........we are thinking about getting a PA too!

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 02:31 PM

Since we are a songleading band and not a performance band, tone is not as important as reach and handling feasibility.We have a four-channel Kustom, a small mixer/amp with two speakers, 80 watts, $390 US. Carry-handles on each piece, sets up in a jiffy. Increases our flexibility-- for smaller (church) gigs we have a variety of amps and mini-mixers (to increase inputs) to deploy.

Any gig we get, that the Kustom won't handle, is most likely to come with its own sound system.   

What I need now is someone with an industrial sewing machine to make protective vinyl covers for our favorite gear. OTOH I guess I could do grommets and laces for a camping craft project! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Gypsy
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 06:03 PM

Or, ye could use the handy awl! My favorite choice when making shoes, bags, etc! portable, too.
Anyway, we bit the bullet and got the Peavey Escort, which arrove today. Have it set up in the shop, and will be playing with it as soon as himself is done with lunch................HE got to play with it already, sounds pretty darned good. And we REALLY like the portability of it...........used to have the monolith Peavey, with coffin sized speakers! Don't miss that beastie at all. First time in the field with this one will be the 24th of the month.......so at least we have time to practice with it. Will give more feedback after the gig.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 09:51 PM

Really Gypsy,

shouldn't you try to keep the feedback to a minimum? ;-)

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Sytems
From: Gypsy
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 04:13 PM

Oh aye.............to that end we electrified the hammer dulcimer........mic's just don't cut it. as it turns out, the singer that we shared the venue with had the Fender. so we could REALLY compare. We love the escort, it has worked like a champ so far this summer. Thru sun, and fog. So, would highly recommend for anyone in our situation. Himself and i can port with ease, and is not much larger than our moniter, so we can load the LITTLE car, rather than the van.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: ossonflags
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:36 AM

We ars a four piece - sometime five- band.Singer,fiddle, accordian, acoustic guitar, playing noisy pubs and some outside venues need to update system.
The peavey escourt sounds good but we would need something with at least six imputs.Any suggestions?

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:06 AM

My 'little'PA is an ancient HH MA100 (five input mixer amp) which is ideal for me as a solo multi intrumental vocalist . However for the trio I work with regylarly I add a Folio 4/6 mixer , with BOTH outputs into one channel of the HH . All the Vocal mics go through the Folio (Still one spare mono i/p ) the Interval music minidisc goes through one of the stereo i/ps , and all the instruments go direst into the HH . For larger gigs I have a 350 a side Soundmaster with a 16 channel Peavy mixer .

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 11:33 PM

Electrifying the hammer Dulcimer is one way to reduce the number of Hammer Dulcimer players... :-P

Robin
(An Occassional Hammer Dulcimer Player)

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:41 PM

All workmanlike choices , Leadfingers, but I am not that keen on the sound of the Peavey mixers. Kind of scratchy.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: Gypsy
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:11 PM

Yer INTENTIONALLY mic ing up an accordian? ;O)

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: jimmyt
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:15 PM

please read and offer help to new thread, perfect sound system Thanks jimmyt

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: GUEST,Toenails John
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 02:17 PM

Already contributed a simalar answer in a simaler thread Tech: Help with the 'perfect' sound system.
Go see what i said about HK AUDIO and have a look at their stuff, as they don't seem to be mentioned very much for an excellent rig (s)
hope this is of some help to ya!

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: GUEST,Andy Newman
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:11 PM

Our small group uses the Peavey Escort and, in general, it is excellent and very convenient. I'm wondering how much poer the Escort speakers will handle, as I,m thinking of using a separate pwered mixer with the Escort speakers. Has anyone tried this?

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 02:16 PM

What's the power of the Escort system? That's what the speakers can handle. I doubt it'd be safe to put more power through them, and I seriously doubt you'd get any better sound. Kind of a pointless exercise, I think. Mind you, there are far more knowlegeable people here than I. Hopefully, they'll weigh in shortly.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 02:22 PM

Yamaha do a very neat Four channel mixer Amp package that seems ery good , thogh NOT Super loud - 70 watts I think , but it folds up very tidily

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 02:56 PM

I got the 300watt version of that. Its okay. Its called a stagepass.

Subject: RE: Small (portable?) PA Systems (SEAMUS K.)
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 03:47 PM

OK, we are a number of years down the line on this thread and I would like to hear from those who have been using the Bose for a considerable amount of time. Is is still meeting expectations? Sound quality and balance? Bass response? New gadgets for it?

Fill us in please?

All the best,

MIck