Comedy and Folk Music

Subject: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM

The BBC have a two part history of folk comedy here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/rams/tue1130.ram

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 07:59 AM

Here's a funny one, and I never thought about it before, but my mam is of the opinion that comedians killed the folk clubs, because essentially they made something that was very worthwhile and cultural a laughing stock, devaluing everything. Discuss? Not sure if I agree on principle, but then I wasn't there.
It was a good programme actually. Not usually up that early, but I had jetlag.
x e

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:07 AM

I think the comic intros to songs were a cheerful and healthy and life-giving element in the folk club scene in the heydays. Whatever you think of Mike hardings Radio 2 prog now, he couldnt half split your sides (and play great songs) in the clubs back in the 70's. Billy C and jasper C were always good for a laugh(Tony C too come to think of it). Boring people with guitars killed the folk clubs...not funny people, I reckon.
Somebody's Law says "bad money drives out good". Very true. Not "funny money drives out serious money".

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:21 AM

I know there were a lot of peop;e who effectively did a 'stand-up' routine as a folk club booking with sometimes as few as four songs in an evening . However the purveyors of contemporary humerous songs most
definately did NOT harm the club scene , as most clubs booked a variety of different acts, so the Full House nights for people like Jasper Carrot and Miles Wootton helped to keep clubs heads above water
and enabled them to book the straight folkies like Martin Carthy and the Copper Family at sensible fees.
There was a school of thought that said the Kippers re writes of traditional songs would kill the Trad Song Scene - Did It ??

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:24 AM

Yer dad can trip out a good yarn or two when he puts his mind to it, Eliza! I don't recal him closing any clubs:-)

If you mean comedians that don't do folk clubs though I sort of agree. The popular view held by many people of folks clubs, morris dancers and anything traditionaly English is indeed derisive. I don't think however that it is comedians exactly, more like marketing machines. Just look and some TV adverts and you will know what I mean.

However, all that aside, I don't think either comedians or marketing executives really have the power to close folk clubs. It would mean the majority of people are indeed a sad lot to follow the views of these people. I don't think we are:-)

Much as I admire your Mum's singing I don't think I can agree with her views on this one. Ah well, you can't win 'em all!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:32 AM

Greg - do you mean that they were boring because they had guitars, or they were boring anyway and just so happened to have a guitar? If I'm right about Eliza's true identity (and you didn't reply last time I asked, Eliza!), I reckon her dad would take exception to that statement! :0)

I don't believe folk-clubs are dead, at least ours isn't - far from it, it's a thriving, happy club with an eclectic mix of performers and styles. But I do believe many will eventually die if:-

1) We don't work very hard on introducing and encouraging youngsters. Difficult nowadays because of all the other distractions avaiilable to young people, but certainly not impossible.

2) Ostriches and moaners are allowed to dominate proceedings and drive performers out because they're not 'Pure' and 'English Traditional' enough. Nothing at all wrong with English Traditional, I love it, but there's much more around that's worth an airing.

But that's all been argued many times on other threads..............

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:33 AM

It wasn't the comedians that killed folk clubs (are they really dead?) but availablility of alternative entertainment. Now, when you're fed up with terrestrial TV, cable TV, satellite TV, radio, videos and DVDs, you can go out to bingo in plush surroundings with cheap drinks, any number of pubs with big screens, quiz nights, karaoke (which is like folk clubs without guitars), *comfortable* cinemas, bowling, cabaret and comedy clubs. The last two have become the modern equivalent of folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:35 AM

Although I never saw Jasper Carrot when he was doing the folk clubs all the other so called folk comedians were capable of and did sing serious songs very well, including Mike Harding and Tony Capstick.
Mike has written some very good songs.
I think the thing that killed the folk clubs was the vain effort to attract younger people in by booking ' pop ' type singers, that and introverted singer songwriters with their heads stuck up their own arses being self indulgent.
eric

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:44 AM

See what I meant Steve and Eliza? Eric the Ostrich strikes again.
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:49 AM

For 'Steve' read Greg! SOB!
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:51 AM

Is there a difference between comedy and folk music ?

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:58 AM

Oh GUEST, per-leeeeeeease!! Get him OFF!!

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:02 AM

A well run folk club will last longer then most, but folk clubs in general are thin on the ground up here in Scotland. The Inverness one closed ages ago, and now there are a few pub sessions, and a bar called Hootenanny, [how Scottish is that?] I would love to start another club, [masochism?] but can't see people coming unless I book big names, and they are too expensive for an average folk club. Not that they don't deserve it, they've been underpaid for years, especially when compared with some mediocre 'Pop' acts. It's all down to how much you need to charge at the door to cover costs, and like it or not folk is regarded as cheap entertainment.
Greg is partly right in the boring guitars remark, but nobody ever got bored with a GOOD guitar player. Good residents, and a firm policy on floor singers also help.
The biggest cause of disappearing folk clubs is the malign influence of big brewery chains, and managers rather than landlords.
John

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:43 AM

Hi Strollin' my head might be in the ground but it's not up my own arse.
eric

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Stu
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 10:03 AM

I really love Rambling Syd Rumpo.

Rambling Syd must have coloured a whole generation's view of folk music, and must have done more damage than comedians in folk clubs (though I wasn't there so couldn't say, and don't go to folk clubs - I'm a session sort of chap) - surely comedy is a part of the whole thing.

I suppose I'd better not mention the Barron Knights 'Hand on Ear Folk Song'.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 10:24 AM

Think what you like Eric, I don't give a toss. I'd prefer my head to be up my arse than to have a stagnant mind that's closed to anything innovative and new, and anyone young.

As I said earlier, our club's anything but dead. It's packed to the rafters every time with happy people presumably, by your 'standards', with their heads up their arses, enjoying the music whether it's accompanied or unaccompanied, 'Traditional' or 'Contemporary'. We welcome all performers, irrespective of their style, and we go out of our way to encourage young performers like Lucy Wright & Paul Smith, local youngsters and two of the brightest 'new faces' I've heard for a long time (and they do Traditional too!). No moaners and groaners, no FNs. If that's having one's head up one's arse, then the further the better as far as I'm concerned.

Don't come, you'd hate it.

J xxxxxx

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:23 AM

Johnny, nobody is going to pick your toys up for you, so leave them in the pram.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:43 AM

GUEST Anon - at least I'm grown up enough to identify myself. Knock it off mate, you're a shit-stirring prat.
Now sod off.
Johnny

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM

Now now boys ! Lets shake hands and be friends and have a pint a pint or two. You will only give us a bad name. You might even start a new genre punk folk for angry young(?) men!

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:52 AM

As for comedy and folk what about Pop and comedy....Posh for starters lets hope it kills that off.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Les from Hull
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:06 PM

In the 60s and 70s acts like Tony Capstick filled our club (Folk Union One in Hull - well known to your mum, Eliza) as did other popular acts. There was always a good mix of music and humour (like the Yetties). Whatever killed these clubs wasn't the comedy. The profits from those nights made it possible for organisers to book acts that made a loss (let's face it - most booked artists made a loss on the night). Alternative entertainment, changing tastes and lots of other things closed folk clubs.

We have two excellent folk clubs in our area, and I hardly ever go to either. I think that the growth of sessions is more responsible here, at least in my case. I can think of many local session players and singers who don't often go to folk clubs. If I do go to a club it's more likely to see people like Last Night's Fun or Bernard Wrigley who combine fine music with good humour.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:15 PM

Not angry Noddy, just frustrated that Eric and I can't have our standard and regular argument without anonymous guests butting in! I'm happy to stand mild abuse from people who identify themselves, and I'm happy to give as good as I get without going into a big sulk, but I just hate it when people poke a stick in anonymously and give a good stir without adding anything to the discussion.

Eric and I don't see eye to eye on the 'Totally Trad v. Mixed Content' debate and probably never will do, but I don't mind that - despite our trading verbal punches I have respect for his views, I enjoy trying to persuade him and I'd buy him a beer if I met him - but I can't respect anonymous guests who just want to insult those of us who are prepared to stand up and be identified.

So who's the adult and who's the child?

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:20 PM

Leadfingers I agree with what you say, a good balance is healthy and entertaining. However I do gripe about the fact that the general public came to identify all of Folk Music with the humour of performers like Fred Wedlock and Mike Harding. But Hey, these guys have to make a living the best they can.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:25 PM

Surely those perceptions must already have been there - else the public wouldn't have found it so funny?

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:26 PM

And I'm losing it! I've just re-read one of my earlier posts which was for Greg and Eliza's benefit mainly, and I said we don't work on getting young people involved. I'm a silly old bugger - I meant of course that we DO work hard on getting young people involved!

Dyslexic fingers or what?

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:45 PM

Les and John McKenzie make good points - there's a problem posed by alternative forms of entertainment which weren't around in my younger days, and sessions too are hugely popular nowadays - a far greater percentage of 'Folk-Lovers' play than did back in the 60's and 70's, and they naturally want to get amongst it and strut their stuff (metaphorically speaking, I hope!) rather than sit for long periods listening to others.

There are still good clubs around and, at least in mid- and north Lincolnshire, probably as many as in the aforementioned halcyon days, not the same clubs necessarily but numerically they're still there. I suspect that those who say they're dying are those whose minds are closed to everything except one narrow genre, and who refuse to accept that Folk's a broad church with room for different styles. In their case I guess only time will tell.

I'm an optimist and I don't believe clubs in general are dying - individual ones may struggle, probably for the above reasons, but those run by open-minded and energetic organisers still seem to thrive in our area.

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: alanabit
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:53 PM

I think comedy and folk music are pretty well inseparable. Folk music and folk songs have always reflected life in general - and humour is a big part of that. There is always a danger that for some acts an audience will come expecting them to be funny all the way through, but I can hardly think of a serious act which does no comedy or a comedy act which does nothing serious. What is important is finding the right balance for your act or your club.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:10 PM

Just to make myself perfectly clear, of course I didnt mean that all people with guitars were boring. I meant that in my opiniona large number of boring people, who happened to play guitars, drove out the audiences from the folk clubs. There were also, of course, boring people there without guitars. But as a genre, who became identified in the public mind with "the reason I loathe folk music", it was a certin class of guitar-singers who sounded the death-knell. In my humble opinion. of course.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:24 PM

Shouldn't some distinction be made between folk music and performed music?

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:28 PM

My tall tales and jokelore were almost always used to set up the song--even the big ballads. I was often playing for folks who knew nothing of our revival (i.e. gigs on the Mississippi River) The tales and one-liners could bring them to the place where they were receptive. Often they told me they could see that I was striving to save the old songs from American history and balladry. Whenever that happened, I knew I was doing what I had set out to do.

Before the humor, I was quite serious beyond belief. The humor is the real me too. Two sides of the same coin.

Picture Lou Killen without his tales of Newcastle Brrroooon Eehl. I can't conjur that one up---and I don't want to.

Art Thieme
.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:30 PM

The navel gazing singer songwriters definately did the folk club scene far more harm than the folk comedians . Of course another thing was the vast improvement ( briefly) of Televised entertainment , with nearly everything pre recorded and all the slip ups deleted before broadcast ,so that too many people expected ALL entertainment to be totally error free. The Random Excellence factor in Live Clubs meant
that the general public would not pay good money even for very good live acts.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: harvey andrews
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:47 PM

The navel gazing singer songwriters definately did the folk club scene far more harm than the folk comedians

Are we talking floor singers/residents here or booked artists? Over the years I've not seen many, if any of the navel gazers as guests for whom the public paid. I do think there's far more of that in other countries than the UK.
The folk clubs were in a direct line from the 19th century singing rooms, through music hall to variety and then the folk revival...all entertainments of the people, for the people, by the people.A good folk club night served exactly the same function for a generation as a night at the music hall. And the operative words are "for a generation" that generation is now mostly retired and so are the folk clubs and the format that flourished in them. The comedy clubs served the same function in many ways in the 80's and 90's, in fact I have a book of stories about their early lives by the comedy club pros that mirrors the stories of the folk pros almost word for word. Same life, same audience, slightly different format.
Those left today are those for whom the music was the be-all and end-all of the night out. Those for whom it was just a night out to meet the opposite sex, have a beer, sing a chorus, have a laugh,express a political feeling have gone elsewhere.It was a young educated persons night out in the 60's and 70's. The working class were in the working men's clubs listening to Bernard Manning!

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:55 PM

The first time I came across a artist who combined folk music and humour was at a music festival in Rugby in 1969(?). The festival was over 3 days and featured rock, blues and folk. The artist I'm referring to appeared in the folk marquee. I was mighly impressed and had the feeling I was watching something new and important. I can't recall the performers name. Can anybody help?

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:07 PM

Chance for me to spout.

Just as it is difficult to define "folk song", it is as hard to define "singer-songwriter" without being specific. For example I reckon Mike Waterson's (to keep it within the family for this thread) "Stitch in Time" is as good as it comes. Anyone want to deny the validity of "Shoals of Herring" or "Fiddler's Green?". Or loads of Vin Garbutt stuff?

If singer-songwriter is shorthand for "boring songs which I have written about my girlfriend/boyfriend who I have just left/fallen in love with.." then nothing clears a folk club quicker.

I have been in the lucky position of having aspiring perfrmers sending records to me in the hopes of getting bookings. By far the largest number were from people who I describe as wearing their angst on their sleeve. Heaven knows what they do to folk clubs.

As far as comedians are concerned I honestly reckon Norma is wrong on this one. Martin certainly did one or two liners, Mike has known to raise a laugh too. Once the jokes took over from the singing then they left the folk clubs and worked elsewhere (Carrot, Connolly or rarely did clubs Capstick, Harding).

If anything IMHO it is the LACK of a good laugh and chorus song that closes clubs. Went to see Les Barker last Friday who is purely a poet who does folk clubs and he filled a place. And some thread creep a bit - there was a lad called Joseph Topping who is a great singer I do hope we hear more of him.

Best regards,

folkiedave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:10 PM

Sorry Harvey, can't agree with that last sentence, this working class lad (Shop Steward)wouldn't cross the road to see Bernard Manning but did frequent the folk clubs of Manchester, as did numerous other people just like me. Although I no longer work on the factory floor I still consider myself working class, I have to get my arse out of bed in a morning at someone else's beckoning.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: harvey andrews
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 03:26 PM

Okay Raggytash I take your point . A generalisation always requires qualification. So...the educated working class, of which I'm one, was generally in the folk clubs.Does that do?
and folkdavie...
If singer-songwriter is shorthand for "boring songs which I have written about my girlfriend/boyfriend who I have just left/fallen in love with.." then nothing clears a folk club quicker.
I have been in the lucky position of having aspiring perfrmers sending records to me in the hopes of getting bookings. By far the largest number were from people who I describe as wearing their angst on their sleeve. Heaven knows what they do to folk clubs.

You validate my point here. You don't book them and neither does anyone else.
However I've heard Joe Topping...a real talent, but lyrically he fits your stereotype!

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

People change too. You need energy both to produce music & laughter and to enjoy it. Have you ever noticed how miserable bastards are often also worn out gits with only sufficient energy to complain? And as to declining popularity of folk clubs, by comparison, how many other music styles are still staged REGULARLY? 40s crooner nights, 50s Do-wop nights, 60s pop nights, 70s disco nights, 80s new wave nights, 90s ... er ... did anything happen in the 90s?

I can't remember folk singers (bands particularly) that played in the north east of England that weren't humorous as well. Although I once was told after performing in Gateshead, "Christ, son ... that was f*ckin' serious." ;o)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:19 PM

I perhaps did not explain myself fully. I didn't book them. Few people do I suspect.

The problem is (I think) that in a folk club somewhere, they are still (lamenting usually or celebrating occasionally)......singing their songs. And that is what empties folk clubs (shame I agree), and again I think why festivals go from strength to strength. One of the things that came out of the AFO festival audience review was that festivals present to their audiences guaranteed quality.

I must have gone to folk clubs dozens of times in the hopes of hearing a gem. Now I rarely bother. Joe came along when I was there to see Les Barker!!

Best wishes

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 05:41 PM

I am surprised no one has gone with this in this direction:

During the heyday, the golden age of folk music, or to some, "the big scare," comedy was a big part of the whole "entertainment" of seeing a folk music show. Lou Gottlieb of the Limelighters literally invented the intellectual patter-chatter monologs between songs. He greatly influenced Dave Guard and later John Stewart who dubiously (and obviously well-rehearsed) fulfilled this role for the Kingston Trio. These shows, though the folk purists and "ethnics" regarded as "too commercial" were, along with of course The Smothers Brothers, the golden age of comedy and folk music. It's when people really entertained, singing along with the choruses one moment, laughing at jokes the next.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 06:49 PM

NEVER leave out the comic genius of Utah Phillips. He is the only one who influenced me. Well, maybe Henny Younman too.

MG, were you at the Memorial on Saturday last celebrating Fred Holstein? I was hoping to, as I said, shake your hand.

Art

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 07:33 PM

Harvey, I look forward to discussing this over a pint at some time in the future. I have long admired your skills and enjoy your songs, perhaps this is not the place to dissect semantics.
cheers Raggytash

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: harvey andrews
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 07:36 PM

It's a deal...you buyin'?

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:39 PM

I think I understand where Harvey is coming from, Raggytash, and if so, I agree. But class definitions are so fluid, you'd need more than a pint to sort this one out. I know well educated Sun/Daily Mail readers and manual labourers who read the Observer and Independent.

I agree also with the (newly legitimised? no longer GUEST? welcome!) Martin Gibson about the value of the light hearted and entertaining patter to introduce songs. Giving a lift to Vin Garbutt this last summer, I asked about his patter (he is one of the masters) and he said that as a performer he has to spend just as much attention to this as he does to ensuring the guitar is in tune and his voice in pitch; he considers the "patter" essential to balance out the evening, given that the majority of his songs are about "misery of one sort or another" (his words). And then, I saw him arriving at the gig knackered, take a big breath and go out and give a cracking evening to the punters - the consummate performer.

On the navel-gazing singer/songwriters: Yep, many of them have tried and will always try to break into the scene. But folk is at least as much about content, as it is about presentation. That is one of its distinctions from pop (where it is all about presentation and let the content go hang). Such introverts are weeded out naturally in folk, they simply don't get asked back.

(what's this I found? nah, just a bit of fluff...)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 02:40 AM

Hi Strollin' Johnny, I seldom go to folk clubs any more but I play in at least two sessions a week where anything goes, everyone is encouraged no matter what they sing or play,how good or badly.
I also play at an open mic session with my mate Clive, it is mostly people singing their own songs [ lots of young people ] and some of the songs are very good. I have no problem with contemporary songs or young people, I called it a day with folk clubs when people started singing Beatle's songs etc, nothing wrong with the songs but thats not why we went to a folk club.
If you are ever round this area, [ Halifax ] come to one of the sessions and I'll buy you a pint.
eric

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 03:29 AM

Cheers Eric, nice post and, at the end of it all, I guess we're both coming to the same place, even though it looked as though it was from different directions! I'm not so much a session man (my guitar-playing talents are too limited, more of a singer) but I'm still pretty active in the clubs around Lincs. and Notts. and the ones I frequent, I'm sure, would keep you reasonably happy. Mind you, I have been known to drop 'Wonderful Tonight' in after the official 'Last Song' - keeps the old dears happy!

Glad we're in agreement and maybe one day we'll buy each other that beer, who knows! Hope so.
All the best,
Johnny :0) :0)

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 05:12 AM

Just a vote in favour of the humourists who frequent the genre.

I was once a trad bigot, and now I'll listen to anything. especially Beatles songs, good songs, them. But if I'm at the back when an introverted S/Swriter comes on, that is the time to go to the toilet.

I like Vin G's songs, but I love his intro's. I remember chuckling at Jasper and Pam Ayres in folk clubs, and most of the people I remember best were funny, or were very VERY good. Going back over 34 years now.

What made folk clubs suffer? Fashion, just fashion, and the generation gap. Folk revivalists are OLD (over 20), and where can you see a mixture of old and young enjoying the same scene?

It should come back, one day. Miniskirts did.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:36 AM

Let's hope miniskirts never go away.

Art, no I didn't get to go. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:58 AM

Martin G,

I'm sorry you didn't get there. For me, it was wonderful to just be there and see and hear old and good friends that I never get out to see now. I think you and I have had disagreements here that were unfortunate and possibly not indicative of our generally more inclusive personalities. Anyhow, I was looking forward to meeting you.

Art

Subject: RE: Comedy and Folk Music
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:38 PM

Cheers chaps. The way I feel about it is that I very much enjoyed the Kipper Family when I was a kid, but I suppose I understand what she says when she talks about something sacred, something she loved as a cause and a calling, having the mick taken out of it. She also said that what really killed them (as a place where everyone felt the same way about what was supposed to happen there, that is, not that killed them off) as far as she was concerned was not the fact that these people were funny, it was the fact that they seemed to be using the folk scene as a springboard; most of them left the clubs and never looked back (Jasper Carrot, Billy Connolly, Barbra Dickson), leaving it bereft, with the mick taken, as it were. I enjoy a good parody as well; in fact I can say with impunity that I have seen more parodies in folk clubs than serious "traditional" songs (old ones)-is that what she's talking about?
x e