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Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer
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Subject: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,JTT Date: 22 Apr 04 - 05:25 PM Apparently I gave my nephew a record by Máire Ní Scolai at some stage, and he now wants to know more about her. I haven't an idea. Anyone? |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: Brían Date: 23 Apr 04 - 12:03 AM Well, I found this by doing a Google search. Brían from Joe Offer: Archive of the link above: MÁIRE NÍ SCOLAÍ (1909 - 1985) traditional singer Born Dublin Educated at Central Model Schools and Ring College. She went to Galway with her sister Mona and soon acquired a reputation as a teacher of Irish singing and dancing. Appeared as Gráinne with Micheál MacLiammóir in his Diarmaid agus Gráinne in the Taibhdhearc in 1928. Married Liam Ó Buachalla, then a lecturer in UCG. She became widely known for her interpretations of traditional songs, won many prizes at feiseanna, broadcast frequently from Radio Éireann and the BBC and in France and America, and gave recitals in Covent Garden and Queen’s Hall, London. She collected many songs in the Galway and Donegal Gaeltacht. Died in Galway on 29 June 1985 Source: A Dictionary of Irish Biography, Henry Boylan (ed.), Gill & Macmillan, Dublin, 1998. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,JTT Date: 23 Apr 04 - 05:52 AM Hmmm. I suppose the nephew's asking about recordings. He says she has a lovely light voice and fabulous phrasing. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: Fear Faire Date: 23 Apr 04 - 06:58 AM There was one LP. Not sure if it was ever re-issued on CD. A bit too trained or too sopranoish for many tastes but by far the most "authentic" and also genuine of those (if you know what I mean). Probably a Gael Linn issue given the era. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 23 Apr 04 - 07:48 AM There was an album available on cassette up to quite recently - I remember picking up a copy for someone. I'm not sure if it ended up on CD. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 04 - 01:19 PM Fear Faire, discussing the merits of Marie Ni Scolai`s interpretations of traditional songs, reminds me of the many arguments among the various "experts", I always enjoyed her singing, although she would never be classed as a traditional singer, as Fear Faire says, " too Sopranoish". |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,Com Seangan Date: 03 Feb 05 - 05:58 PM JTT. Yes. I knew Maire well. She had gone beyond her "peak" however when I got to know her. She was married to Liam O Buachalla, Professor of Economics UCG and Chairman of the Seanad, they both were very Republican in their outlook and Liam gave his lectures in Irish only. He chaired the Oireachtas (joing meeting of Dail and Seanad) when Presient Kennedy addressed the house in 1963. They had no family. Maire established a "traditional"choir at UCG which was great fun. - something like Sean Og O Tuama had on Radio Eireann. She had a way with students. I agree with Fear Faire that Maire would not have been a traditional singer in the "traditional" sense but from her Radio broadcasts did much to promote the traditional songs long before the foundation of Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: Thompson Date: 04 Feb 05 - 03:24 AM Oh, this is good stuff, Com Seangan, go raibh míle maith agat! |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 04 Feb 05 - 06:15 AM I remember Liam Andrews of Belfast playing an LP of Máire Ní Scolaí for me back around 1972/73. I'm almost certain the album was on Gael-Linn. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: Moleskin Joe Date: 04 Feb 05 - 06:40 AM The record is indeed on Gael-Linn CEF 029 and came out in 1971. In the sleeve notes Sean MacReamoinn acknowledges that her art is not "traditional" in the strict sense. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,Com Seangan Date: 04 Feb 05 - 06:47 AM For Thompson and JTT and other interested people - a little human story - told by "the Murph" himself - he was Professor of English at UCG - but who ouside class always spoke to his students in Irish. I should preface the story by emphasising how Liam O Buachalla (married to Maire Ni Scolai) adored the ground that Maire walked on - I'd swear they were as romantically in love the day that death intervened as they were the day that their eyes first met. Now, The Murph and Liam O Buachalla were the closest of friends - they shared so much - the Irish, The Music, The Taibhdhearc (theatre). One afternoon as they were having a cuppa in the College (Liam never drank)O Buachalla said (in Irish of course) : "Sorry I have to rush home as Maire is on the Radio at five o'clock". Now it transpired that at that time, there was an Irish writer of substance from Donegal who used broadcast from time to time and his pen-name was MAIRE. "The Murph" who was thinking of Maire the writer replied: "Yerra cuir uait a mhac, le firinne pian sa toin an Maire ceanna". Which being loosly translated is "Ah will you go on, the truth is that Maire gives me a pain in the arse". "The Murph" was a bit puzzled why Liam left his company so abruptly. It was only when he got home himself and heard the sweet voice of Maire Ni Scolai that he realised - My God - My God -how deep he had put his large foor in it. Immediatly into his car and makes for Liam's abode on Taylors's Hill and I tell you he had some bit of explaining to do before full harmony was restored. God be good to them all - they were great people. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,Patricia in NYC Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:57 PM Maire Ni Scolia was my maternal grandfather's 1st cousin. As a child her and I were pen pals, she had a real spirit. I too would like to find the recordings on CD. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: MartinRyan Date: 01 Aug 08 - 04:33 AM As mentioned earlier in the thread, there was an old Gael Linn recording issued as LP and, perhaps, cassette tape many years ago. As far as I can see, it was never released on CD. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:12 PM Thank You |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,Ephy Clarke Date: 07 May 10 - 05:54 AM Hi maire Ni Scolai was my grand aunt, she was married to my uncle Liam O Buachalla, Dean of UCG and Chairman of the senate. Maire toured and sang regularly with Father Sidney Mc Ewan |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,^&* Date: 07 May 10 - 06:19 AM I think there was a CD of her work published/republished within the past year or two. I'll check. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,^&* Date: 07 May 10 - 06:24 AM No - I'm confusing it with another reissue, I'm afraid. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: GUEST,Dermot Buckley Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:45 PM Liam O'Buachalla was my Grand Uncle and I think I have a tape of Marie Ni Scolai somewere I must look for it |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: Connacht Rambler Date: 05 Aug 10 - 06:25 AM There's now a page about Maire Ni Scolai and a photo at Ramblinghouse |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: keberoxu Date: 05 Apr 16 - 02:41 PM This singer has a biographical entry, in Irish, at www.ainm.ie. It contains one or two quotes in English. Here is one, attributed to Cyril Ó Céirín: "Máire, a mezzo-soprano, combined what she had learned of sean-nós singing in the Gaeltachtaí with her training in classical music and was one of the few singers ever to do so with complete success." And after Ní Scolaí moved to Galway, but before she got married, she came to the rescue of a theatrical production, and people sat up and took notice of her. She played the female lead in Diarmuid and Gráinne. Her Diarmuid was Micheál Mac Liammóir, who recalled: "I was playing Diarmuid myself, Liam Ó Briain was Fionn (Finn McCool), and Máire Ní Scolaidhe, a lovely dark girl with astonishing golden eyes, was Gráinne. Of course, she wasn't up to a part that contained the stuff for a mature and lyrical tragedienne, but for sheer beauty and charm she was more than one could have hope for, and I have never ceased to be grateful for the hours of work she gave us, or for the grace of her movements." Pádraig Ó Siadhail, writing in "Stair drámáoicht na Gaeilge 1900 - 1970" [History of Gaelic Drama 1900-1970], made two observations: Ní Scolaí replaced, in the role of Gráinne, a professional married actress whose husband, three weeks before the play opened, objected to the way that Micheál Mac Liammóir was kissing his wife in character. The actress is not identified in this biographical entry. In the same history, the author discloses that Ní Scolaí retired from the acting profession when she suspected that being an actress was doing damage to her singing voice. August 28, 1927 in the Connacht Sentinel newspaper: "Good acting, clear diction, beauty, grace, loveliness, she combined in a portrayal of rare merit. She reminds one forcibly of Miss Eileen Crowe in her early days at the Abbey Theatre. But we doubt if even that talented actress could bring anything better to the stage than the dignity and stateliness and ability of Miss Scully....Mr. Ernest Blythe, at the conclusion of the performance, highly praised Miss Scully. She was only a short time rehearsing the part, but she has the true artistic insight." |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: keberoxu Date: 06 Apr 16 - 01:50 PM Info is not easy to come by on this artist. My online searches had me raking a lot of cybermuck. I was startled when I saw a forum post -- not this forum! -- by a person who described her/himself as a sean-nos devotee, and complained that when sean-nos was sung with classical technique by Maire Ni Scolai, the person could not help laughing, and found it too much to bear. Well, I have that problem with Andrew Rowan Summers singing in my native English, so who am I to judge? |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: keberoxu Date: 12 Apr 16 - 01:39 PM Gael Linn, in 2011, issued a CD album that is a sort of sampler, with eight singers in recordings made for Gael Linn over the years. The title of the CD is "Amhráin Ghrá." There are links to it in the Mudcat thread called "All the dear Spinning Eileens." Plainly Máire Ní Scolaí was something different than a "spinning Eileen," with her classical singing background and her firsthand fieldwork in collecting traditional songs. However, as previous posts state, her one vinyl LP was recorded for Gael Linn at about the same time that the Cabaret Gael Linn was promoting singers who accompanied themselves on the harp. "Amhráin Ghrá" opens with three songs from Máire Ní Scolaí's long-playing album from 1971. They are: An Draighneán Donn Seoithín Seothó Eibhlín, a Rúin This Gael Linn compilation is CEFCD 201. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: keberoxu Date: 03 May 16 - 08:31 PM It has taken me weeks of cogitation and reflection to work out the words to describe my impression, of sean-nós sung by Máire Ní Scolaí. Here is an attempt. As I have posted on a different thread, the sound of Máire Ní Scolaí's singing voice exposes the technique of breath control and support with which she sustains long, ornamented, nearly instrumental melodic passages. I hear her classical singing technique especially in that tone, and in the breath support exposed in that tone. She has the breath control, what the Italians prefer to call "appoggio," of a continental European singer -- a great one, I would have to say; her singing is in fact a master class in how to let the voice ride a column of air, on the breath. Opera singers could profit from listening to her recordings. What is the effect of this sort of sound production in traditional unaccompanied singing in Gaelic? If I were to compare it to the singing of, let us say, Liam Clancy, himself a seasoned artist and performer, this is how I would phrase it: Liam's voice has the grain of wood, solid yet living wood; while Máire Ní Scolaí's recorded voice sounds like it is carved out of marble and polished until it shines. Necessarily, one sounds more organic and alive than the other. Some listeners have a horror of marble statues in their music rooms; some desire little else. I personally would not be without either one. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: keberoxu Date: 08 May 16 - 07:13 PM Máire Ní Scolaí came to my attention from the three opening songs on "Amhráin Ghrá," a Gael-Linn compact disc anthology issued in 2011. These three tracks, like many others on this recording, were previously issued on earlier productions on the Gael Linn label. The notes with this collection referenced the vinyl long-playing album, titled "Máire Ní Scolaí," which Gael Linn released in 1971: at this point Ní Scolaí was nearly at the end of her life. It occurred to me to question when these studio tracks were actually recorded: her voice sounds in good estate, and it is hard to believe at that advanced age she could still sound quite that flawless. So I looked around to see if I could discover anything, since the "Amhráin Ghrá" album notes do not say when Ní Scolaí actually went into the studio and sang for Gael Linn....if indeed that was what she did. Here is what I have unearthed. This comes from www.ainm.ie, where the biographical entries are in Gaelic -- not one of my languages, but there are online tricks to using a translator program. Anyway, ainm.ie has a lengthy, detailed biographical sketch for this singer. My English translation from the Máire Ní Scolaí biographical page: "On her long-playing vinyl album ["Máire Ní Scolaí"] issued by Gael Linn, the song recordings for Side One came from the RTÉ archives. The selection of recordings for Side Two was made from old His Master's Voice records [HMV]." It seems correct to presume that ALL of these recorded performances, be they for RTÉ or HMV, may predate the 1971 release of the Gael Linn LP by some time, perhaps a rather long time. And it may require a lot more digging before I can find anything specific documenting the vintage of those studio recordings. Remember, Maire Ni Scolai was born in 1909 and died in 1985. In 1971 she would have been sixty-two years of age. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai From: keberoxu Date: 08 May 16 - 08:06 PM Regarding the vinyl long-playing album issued in 1971, here's what I have to work with. There is a grand total of twenty-one songs on "Máire Ní Scolaí." Side One has twelve songs. Side Two has nine songs. The conclusion to be drawn from the statements in the previous post: The nine songs on Side Two were previously recorded for HMV at some time. Maybe these were 78 RPM?? The twelve songs on Side One came from the archives at RTÉ. This is outside my area of expertise. Live broadcasts? Pre-recorded? Not to mention, when? So, through a page online (I don't have a copy of the vinyl album or its sleeve), I offer this listing of the songs by album sides, in order. (an EBay listing) Side One, which will be the RTÉ archive source. 1. Sail Óg Rua 2. Seoladh Na nGamhna 3. Máire Ní Ghríofa 4. Go dtaga an Nollaig 5. An Droighneán Donn 6. Moll Dubh an Ghleanna 7. Bean an Fhir Rua 8. Una Bhán 9. Frinseach Tír Eoghain 10. Dónall Óg 11. Seoithín Seothó 12. an Clár Bog Déil Side Two would be from HMV (His Master's Voice). 1. an Caisideach Bán 2. Caisleán Uí Néill 3. 's Oró Mhíle Ghrá 4. 'sé Fáth mo Bhuartha 5. an Sceilpín Droighneach 6. Oró mo Bháidín 7. Cuiachín Ghleann Neifín 8. Caoineach na dTrí Muire 9. Eibhlín a Rún |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 09 May 16 - 07:36 PM More and more it appears evident that the 1971 long-playing vinyl album "Máire Ní Scolaí," issued on the Gael Linn label, is the re-release of song recordings made, in some cases, many years earlier. Both in the 1940's and 1950's documentation at the BBC and Radio Eireann/RTÉ shows that Ms. Ní Scolaí's singing was something of a broadcast staple, and it is easy to speculate that the 78 RPM recordings date from that period of time as well. Searching also brings up documentation under the name Máire Ní Scolaidhe. Does anyone out there have the Gael-Linn LP with sleeve notes? Do the notes say anything helpful? Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: GUEST Date: 10 May 16 - 04:27 AM Does anyone out there have the Gael-Linn LP with sleeve notes? The lp comes up very regularly on ebay. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 10 May 16 - 02:15 PM This artist's ainm.ie entry, like the others, is written in Irish Gaelic by Diarmuid Breathnach and Máire Ní Mhurchú. What follows is my own clumsy attempt -- with help from a translator program -- to render some of the biographical details in English translation. [translation quotes] Not only did Máire Ní Scolaí die without issue, but both of her parents have no surviving issue or surviving relative today. Information about Michael Scully, the singer's father, comes from the 1911 census and from the singer's birth certificate. The census states that Michael Scully was born in co. Kildare. The birth certificate states that the father had formerly served in the Royal Irish Constabulary as a sergeant. On July 16, 1906 at St. John's parish in Clontarf, Michael Scully married Mary Kavanagh, the daughter of a blacksmith from Delany, co. Wicklow. Máire Ní Scolaí, at birth formally named Mary Anne Gabriel Scully, along with her older brother Michael John Joseph Scully, were born in Dublin; the singer's date of birth is May 24, 1909. By the time of the 1911 census, another child had been born to the young family, and they had relocated to the native county of the former Mary Kavanagh; they now lived upon the Bellevue Demesne of Delgany, co. Wicklow. On February 26, 1911, Mona Teresa Scully, a little sister, was born there. Michael Scully was receiving some form of support or compensation as a former Constabulary sargeant, and took on additional work to supplement this income: the census describes him as an insurance agent, while his daughter's birth certificate says he was a traveling salesman. There is an additional detail volunteered by Máire N&iacut;e Scolaí during a radio interview, in which she claimed that she had, not one, but two brothers: Michael John Joseph Scully, her older brother, had died while still a small child; and the singer said that she had a brother, Bill, "who seems to have died in South Africa." [end translation quotes] |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 13 May 16 - 04:34 PM "Eibhlín a rúin" was released by His Master's Voice on a 78 RPM vinyl disc, can't find a date for it. This recording can be heard at YouTube videos, there is no "video" as such but the sound can be played back. The melody is positively that of the "sean-nós" version, also sung by Joe Heaney, and it is not the melody associated with a lyric about "Robin Adair." |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 30 May 16 - 01:36 PM The Breathnach/Ní Mhurchú biography at ainm.ie contains copious detail, all in Gaelic. Over previous weeks I have picked away at this. Rather than parse it out word for word, I am going to improvise, in my own words, an English summary. The great singer's parents, Michael Scully and Mary née Kavanagh, were not Dubliners, though they were married in the city and their two older children were born there. Miss Kavanagh was a Co. Wicklow native. Mr. Scully, who was old enough to be his wife's father, is said to be a Co. Kildare native, although information about him is extremely scarce. The Scullys raised their children -- three or four of them, depending on your source -- largely in their mother's native county Wicklow. Tellingly, when the singer Máire Ní Scolaí died, she is said to have been buried in co. Wicklow. The father, and the two sons, disappear from view quickly; no one gives the father's death date or where he was interred. It was as a teenager that, somehow, Mary Anne Gabriel Scully, eventually re-named Máire Ní Scolaí, made her way to Dublin. She was fourteen when her singing teacher entered her in competitions, probably the minimum age for eligibility, and it is said, the youngest contestant. She proceed to sweep everything, winning one prize after another. Her teacher is said to have been a woman whose husband was a professional baritone. The name might be Gallagher, or its Gaelic/Erse ancestor. There follows a period of time when the capitol city is the young musician's homebase; she is studying as well as performing. The ainm.ie account states in one sentence that she had the equivalency, in some respect, of a Royal Academy music diploma. One of the things she did learn, at some point, was how to direct/conduct a chorus of singers. She also began studies of traditional Irish dance. Her adult home, during much of her career and all her retirement years, however, was Galway, where she was a popular favorite. I don't know if it was in Galway or Dublin that she married, not certain. She and her husband, however, became Galway fixtures. Her sister Mona Theresa often lived and worked with her; and with another woman, a non-relative, they would perform as a vocal trio on occasion. Their widowed mother -- again, we don't know when Mary Kavanagh Scully became a widow -- joined them, and this latter died in Galway, living with her daughter. In time, the sister would marry, and she and her husband would relocate to Dublin. Touring as part of a company, performing traditional music, was part of Máire Ní Scolaí's curriculum vitae, and she both danced and sang on these tours. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 01 Jun 16 - 02:37 PM Thank you Reg Hall! His book "A Few Good Tunes" -- maybe I have got the title wrong, something like that -- has discographies for a number of traditional Irish musicians. Hall documents and describes Ní Scolaí as one of the few performing artists who would program a concert of largely Gaelic lyrics in a formal concert setting right in London around the time of the Second World War. I ought to go back to the online book and look up Mr. Hall's exact words on this. Here, from Mr. Hall's book, is information for which I have been digging for weeks. On 20 August 1938, singer Máire Ní Scolaí and pianist Duncan Morrison completed a session in the London recording studios of His Master's Voice. Mr. Hall can positively state that the session included these titles: My Bonny Irish Boy Caoineadh na dTrí Muire Cuaichín Ghleann Neifín 'S é Fáth mo Bhuartha Eibhlín a Rúin and something that looks like "Aghadoe" At that moment, Ní Scolaí would have been just 29 years of age, so physically and vocally she must indeed have been in her prime. A shorter HMV recording session in London was squeezed in, the following year, sometime around March (1939). The titles recorded were: Dun Do Shuile 'S Óró Mhíle Grá Lúibín Ó Lú |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 04 Jun 16 - 04:34 PM There exists a thread for the traditional song "Caisleán Uí Néill," with variations on its verses. Máire Ní Scolaí's recording of that song for HMV, with piano accompaniment, is limited to two verses only, possibly because of the time constraints of a 78 RPM single. Consultation of multiple editions of traditional Irish song in print, has got me practically nowhere with verse 1, except for Ní Scolaí's final line in the first verse: Acht mo lámh faoi do cheann, cead cainnt' leat go mbuailfidhe an dó-deug. ....which wording I found in the Connacht collection, oddly enough, edited by Douglas Hyde. I simply cannot make out the words that come before these. Verse 2 on this recording, it appears to me, was carefully revised so that it does not correspond exactly to a single printed version, but its lines are recognizeably distributed amongst printed versions, from Mrs. Eileen Costello -- "Galway and Mayo" -- to the archives at the Comhaltas website. This is the best I could do with the second verse. Tá mo gháirdín breágh 'n-a fhásach, agus a ghrádh gheal ní miste leat é? Gach padhsae dhá áille tá 'fás 'níos thrí bhárr glas na cré. Ní chualas ceól cláirsí 'dhul an t-sráid seo, ná ceiliúr na n-éan, Ó d'éalaigh mo ghrádh uaim, cúl-- áluinn, go Caisleán uí Néill. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 05 Jun 16 - 01:44 PM end of verse 1: "Acht mo lámh faoi do cheann, cead cainnt' leat go mbuailfidhe an dó-dheug." "...except for my hand under your head, and, by your leave, to talk with you and meet with you until the hour of twelve." pieced-together translation for verse 2: "My little garden is a wilderness And, bright love, does it not affect you to see Every flower, however beautiful, about the green of the grounds. On this street is not heard the sound of the harp nor the song of the birds at dawn With the elopement of my love to the O'Neills' castle." |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 06 Jun 16 - 01:44 PM In looking at the songs recorded and re-issued on the "Máire Ní Scolaí" vinyl LP from Gael Linn records in 1971, I will have to focus carefully on one published/printed anthology in particular: the Amhráin Mhuighe Seóla, "traditional folk-songs from Galway and Mayo," printed in 1921 and edited by Mrs. Eileen Costello of Tuam. While I have been cross-checking in more than one traditional-song anthology of late -- for example, the Munster anthology edited by O'Daly and Sigerson, and the Connacht anthology edited and translated by Hyde -- the words recorded on the Gael Linn album, often as not, come from song versions in the Galway/Mayo anthology from Mrs. Costello. This is true of "An Draighneán Donn," for example; it is also true of the recorded version of the Connemara lullaby (Suantraídhe) with lyrics by a UC Galway professor. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 06 Jun 16 - 07:51 PM Just started a fresh thread for "Seoithín Seothó," the Suantraídhe from Connemara, with Gaelic lyrics (written in the early 1900's, to be sung rather than lilted or hummed) and English translation. Máire Ní Scolaí does, indeed, sing the cradle-song exactly as presented in Mrs. Costello's "Amhráin Mhuighe Seóla." |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 07 Jun 16 - 07:28 PM It's interesting (and pleasing) how many of Máire Ní Scolaí's relations have written in this discussion thread |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 07 Jun 16 - 08:04 PM Mrs. Costello's "Amhráin Mhuighe Seóla." was originally published in the Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society, if I remember correctly. It's available online - I'll post a link later. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 08 Jun 16 - 01:39 PM Correct, Martin Ryan, thank you. The link I used was to the "Hathitrust" digital library, where they have more than one copy. The copy from a university in California, is full-view; it is the Irish Folk Song Society original edition, not the later reprint. Yesterday I went to a Barnes and Noble branch and bought a little Crosley turntable, into which headphones can be plugged. It's the basic model, does nothing but vinyl records: no cassette tapes, no compact discs, not even a radio set. The sound is not wonderful, but it does work. Having acquired a copy of the Máire Ní Scolaí LP second-hand, I listened to the entire thing straight through. Heard all the songs I have previewed and reported on in this and other threads. And I heard, without preparation or warning, all the other songs. I was prepared for "Caoineadh na dTri Mhuire," which got the full art-song treatment; the keening "ochone" was sung, each time, VERY soft, like a moan, and gave me goosebumps. I was NOT prepared for "Una Bhán." Had no idea what it was about. My blood ran cold listening to it, and I thought, this is going to keep me awake in bed tonight, and I don't even know what's going on or what has happened. So I just pulled up the Mudcat thread for the latter song: well, no wonder. This is not the Celtic twilight, this is the wee small hours past midnight, the darkest hours before dawn. All terribly romantic, of course, but WHEW. When more research and cross-referencing has been completed, I will report back to this thread to say what edition/version of the song was chosen by the artist for her recorded performance. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 08 Jun 16 - 05:49 PM There is of course an "Úna Bhán" thread on the forum already, and conveniently, the verses sung on the recording match what is posted to the thread. I have cross-referenced several other songs recorded on the album that way, and it is not always the case -- frequently Máire Ní Scolaí sings verses very different than the ones posted here.... and then, of course, she has a time limit. So some of these songs have many verses, and she can manage somewhere between two verses and six verses, depending on the song. Mudcat's "Úna Bhán" thread has eleven verses, with Douglas Hyde's translation into English. Máire Ní Scolaí sings three of those eleven verses: by my reckoning they are verses 2, 5, and 6. For the thread, I will submit Douglas Hyde's English rendering of just those three verses, to match the Gael-Linn album version. O fair Úna, o blossom of the amber locks, After your death because of bad advice; Look, my love, which of the two counsels was better, O bird in a cage, when I was in the Ford of the Donogue? O fair Úna, you were like a rose in a garden, And you were a golden candlestick on the queen's table; You were a melody, and musical, when you walked the road before me, 'Tis my sorrowful loss of the morning that you were not married to me. O fair Úna, it is you who deranged my senses; O Úna, it is you who came firmly between me and God; O Úna, o fragrant branch, o curly ringlet of hair, Wouldn't it have been better for me to be without eyes, never seeing you? |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 08 Jun 16 - 08:00 PM Frinseach Thir Eoghain, also on the Gael Linn LP, is a bit of comic relief. Firstly, she sounds like she is singing it to the tune of The Limerick Rake, and in places she drops the Gaelic and just goes dumpty dumpty dum! Secondly, this lyric is in Mrs. Costello's Amhráin Mhuighe Seóla (Galway and Mayo), where there are seven or eight verses, and it is all about how the fox finally met his match in the person of Ffrench of Tyrone -- "lost my tail," as the fox puts it. Must listen again, but I suspect the recording has far fewer verses. Won't start a new thread for this song. Either I'll find a thread about comical songs in Gaelic about foxes, or I'll confine the song to this thread with a post or two. Now, off to my little turntable to woodshed with headphones on, and see if I can make out which verses she sings. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:57 AM re foxes, I suppose you are already familiar with An Maidrín Rua? threads re Úna Bhan Big Al Whittle version lyrics and background both threads contain further links |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: Jim Carroll Date: 09 Jun 16 - 11:24 AM "Maire Ni Scolai" It needs to be remembered that Maire Ni Scolai was singing in a different time and for totally different audiences than those usually associated with Seán Nós singing Hers was the world of the OIREACHTAS na GAEILGE competitions that were as far away from genuine traditional singing as you could get. I attended some of broadcaster Ian Lee's classes at the Wille Clancy Summer School and heard him talk of his mother's experiences as a singer in that world - fascinating - hopefully he'll take it up again next month. Not knocking it - I thoroughly enjoyed crouching over our radio in my youth listening to the crackly reception from the Radio Eireann and Athlone stations - good days!! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:33 PM The Gael-Linn LP opens with "Sail Óg Rua," and much to my surprise, when I look at Mudcat threads, I find the Gaelic of origin all right, but no English translation. Anyhow, the existing Mudcat thread for this song (thread 78855) gives four verses as sung by Darach O Cathain; Máire Ní Scolaí sings verses 1, 2, and 4, unaccompanied. I think it's a stunning performance, but then, I love her voice anyhow. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 10 Jun 16 - 02:21 PM Have been struggling for some time with the lyrics to two of the LP selections: "Caoineadh na dTri Muire," which I can find nowhere except on the vinyl recording itself; and "An Caisideach Bán," for which there is a recording on YouTube (sound only). And I have to admit defeat here. The sean-nós repertoire is well and truly beyond my depth. I mean the lyrics of course. Some traditional songs can be followed even by a listener with no Gaelic; but poetry of this sophistication demands a working acquaintance, a grasp of some level, with its language of origin. And I haven't got it. Four verses of "Caoineadh na dTri Muire" were chosen for Máire Ní Scolaí's 78 RPM vinyl single for HMV at the recording session in 1938. Dimly I apprehended the latter two of the four chosen verses, so I will offer, here, the English translations for those last two verses that you can hear on the record. She [the Mother of Christ] was raised high on [the enemy's] shoulders Ochón agus ochón ó And cast down onto the flagstones of the street Ochón agus ochón ó To me, ye two Marys, and keen with me for the one I love Ochón agus ochón ó What have we to keen, without even His bones Ochón agus ochón ó I have searched the Mudcat forum in vain for a thread that gives the lyrics for "Caoineadh na dTri Muire," for some reason. The translation in this post comes from elsewhere online, I could do no better. See new thread titled Caoineadh na Tri Muire (sean-nos)-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 13 Jun 16 - 12:31 PM "An Sceilpín Draighneach": the recording of this song puzzles an ignorant outsider like me. Is there more than one tune for this lyric? Máire Ní Scolaí's recording uses a tune which is about as far from sean-nós as I can imagine; when I look for notation of the tune, it is the highly ornamented sean-nós version that comes up. She sings three verses, and the third is actually two traditional verses which she has spliced together. Lacking any translation I don't know what she is singing. For "An Clár Bog Déil" two verses are sung, unaccompanied, and highly ornamented. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Jun 16 - 05:09 AM "I have searched the Mudcat forum in vain for a thread that gives the lyrics for "Caoineadh na dTri Muire,"" Original in Irish A Pheadair, a Aspail, An bhfaca tú mo ghrá geal? Óchón agus óchón-ó! Chonaic mé ar ball é, Gá chéasadh ag an ngarda. Óchón agus óchón-ó! Cé hé an fear breá sin Ar Chrann na Páise? Óchón agus óchón-ó! An é n-aithníonn tú do Mhac, A Mháthrín? Óchón agus óchón-ó! An é sin an Maicín A hoileadh in ucht Mháire? Óchón agus óchón-ó! An é sin an Maicín A rugadh insan stábla? Óchón agus óchón-ó! An é sin an Maicín A d'iompair mé trí ráithe? Óchón agus óchón-ó! A Mhicín mhúirneach, Tá do bhéal 's do shróinín gearrtha, Óchón agus óchón-ó! Cuireadh tairní maola trína chosa 's trína lámha, Óchón agus óchón-ó! Cuireadh an tsleá Trína bhrollach álainn. Óchón agus óchón-ó! Óchón agus óchón-ó! English translation Peter, Apostle, Have you seen my bright love? Alas, and alas-o! I saw not long ago Surrounded by his enemies. Alas, and alas-o! Who is that good man Upon the Passion Tree? Alas, and alas-o! It is your son, Mother, Don't you recognise me? Alas, and alas-o! Is that the wee son That was nourished at Mary's breast? Alas, and alas-o! Is that the son That was born to me in the stable? Alas, and alas-o! Is that the son I carried for three quarters? Alas, and alas-o! Darling little son, Your mouth and your nose are cut, Alas, and alas-o! Blunt nails were pushed through His feet and his hands. Ochón agus ochón-ó! And a spear pierced Through his beautiful chest. Alas, and alas-o! Alas, and alas-o! SONGS IN IRISH Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 14 Jun 16 - 05:32 AM I seem to have a version with some extra verses here. I don't remember where it came from. I used it when teaching the air on the pipes. The ochons are left out after the first verse, for brevity. Caoineadh na dTri Mhuire A Pheadair a aspail an bhfaca tu mo ghrá bhan Ochón is ochón ó Chonaic me ar bar é is é dhá chéasadh in airde ochón is ochón ó Cé hé an fear breá sin ar chrann na páise An é nach n-aithníonn tu do mhac a mháithrín An é sin an maicín a diompair me trí ráithe No an é sin an maicín a rugadh in san stábla An é sin an maicin a hoileadh in ucht mhaire A mhicín mhuirneach tá do bhéal is do chróinín geartha Agus crocadh suas í ar ghuaillní arda Agus cathadh anuas í ar leacrachai na sráide O buailigi mé féin ach na bainí le mo mhaithrin O maróidh muid thu féin agus buailfidh muid do mháithrín Agus cuireadh táirni maola thrína chosa 's thrína lámha Agus cuireadh an tsleá thrina bhrollach álainn Gabhaigí a dhá mhuire go gcaoinfidh muid mo ghrá geal Céard tá le caoineadh a'inn, muna gcaoinfidh muid a chnámha Ó éist a mháithair agus ná bí cráite Ta mná mo chaointe le breith fós a mháithrín Is a bhean atá ag gol de bharr mo bháise Beidh na ceadta inniu i ngairdin phárrthais |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 14 Jun 16 - 02:10 PM Regarding "Caoineadh na dTri Muire:" My post of June 10 notes that Máire Ní Scolaí recorded four verses of this lengthy song. With my poor comprehension of Gaelic, I could not make out the first two of the verses on her recording. I reckon they must include at least one of the verses in Jim Carroll's June 14 post, in which there is a dialogue between the Blessed Mother and her son, Christ Jesus, on the cross. I just can't make out which ones. I did make out the third and fourth verse sung on the recording. Interestingly, neither of these two particular verses are represented in Jim Carroll's post. But I do spy both of these verses in the June 14 post from Peter Laban: in the order Laban gives all the verses, they are stanzas 5 and 8. I posted a translation for both in my June 10 post. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 14 Jun 16 - 02:19 PM Still on the subject of the long-playing 1971 Gael-Linn collection, but switching to a different song. Máire Ní Scolaí's "An Sgeilpín Droighneach" is turning into my latest earworm. Her melody, which is very simple and quickly recognized, has got stuck in my head. I think it must be this tune which is performed/recorded instrumentally. There is a sean-nós melody which, oddly, she did not choose. I want to do a little more work to attempt to locate Verse 2 of the three verses she sings, then will come back to identify which three stanzas are represented on her recording; of the multiple versions in print, Eileen Costello's for "Amhráin Mhuighe Seóla" gives six verses altogether. |
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Subject: RE: Maire Ni Scolai (1909 - 1985) traditional singer From: keberoxu Date: 14 Jun 16 - 07:48 PM Slowly working my way through Side 1 of her Gael Linn collection, on vinyl LP, released in 1971. Unaccompanied vocals, twelve songs on that side: according to sleeve notes, recorded for Radio Éireann or whatever it was called earlier than that name: studio broadcast recordings. To picture a singer singing entirely by herself in the studio for something that was going to go out over the airwaves....I would be so scared to do that. Have already mentioned "Amhráin Mhuige Seóla: Traditional Folk Songs of Galway and Mayo." If this was not clear before, I should make it clear here and now, that this is not a sound recording. It is a printed book with lyrics and music (melodic lines only, not arrangements or accompaniments). The lyrics are given in Gaelic; an English translation follows each set of lyrics. The book is largely in English, especially the commentaries, notes, and bibliography; but Gaelic appears throughout. Just found "Moll Dubh an Ghleanna," and can report that Máire Ní Scolaí sings the tune exactly as printed, and lyrics exactly as given, pages 141 through 143 in the printed book. However the book gives six verses, and for the recording the artist sings only verses 1, 2, and 4. |
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