Origins: Martin Said to His Man

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:47 AM

Century!

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 10:51 AM

i just sing it for fun! Learned it from Pete Quinn back in the old "Tipperary Pub" days in Detroit.

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 12:17 PM

I saw a ram butt a dam - fi man fi
I saw a ram butt a dam - whose the fool now?
I saw a ram butt a dam - and a bee swim in jam
Thou hast well drunken man - whose the fool now?

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I saw a whale chase a snail ...

Faster than by British Rail

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I saw a sheep shearing corn ...

And a cuckold blow his horn

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Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: BobL
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:44 AM

This will probably be lost on anyone under 50:
    I heard a swan loudly call
    Channel one-four, wall to wall

And again a touch of history:
    I saw **** buy a round
    and get change from a pound

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 01:53 PM

Saw a hare chase a bear,
Twenty miles in the air.

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 02:50 PM

Saw Great Harry smoking dope,
Said his dealer was the Pope.

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 04:09 PM

Saw a hare chase a hound ...

50 (or 20) miles above the ground ...

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Saw the man in the Moon ...

A cloutin' of St.Peter's shoon

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Saw the cheese eat the rat ...

And a mouse chase a cat ...

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Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Jul 17 - 07:03 PM

CJB, my hare/bear couplet is clearly an ex. of the "folk process," furthered by me,since I was trying to recall something I'd heard decades ago.

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST,Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 06:37 AM

I saw Les Jones debate with Diane Easby,
Saw Malcolm Douglas correct them both...

I can't actually make out Les's voice, but he's in here somewhere (as is Ged Gaskell, who left us last year). Absent friends...

https://philedwards.bandcamp.com/track/whos-the-fool-now

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Jul 17 - 06:47 AM

Oops - blue clicky gone weird.

How's this?

Who's the fool now?

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 07:21 PM

Hmm...
What does, "Fill thou the cup and I the can" mean? What's the significance of cup versus can?
Is "the can" a drinking vessel or is "the can" a toilet, as in, "fill thou the can" means "go take a piss"?

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:36 AM

' the can ' is a toilet in the USA, Martin Said To His Man is a traditional English drinking song, get it ?


Dave H

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 03:57 AM

Hmm ... given that 'can' for 'toilet' dates back to the 1950s (www.alphadictionary.com) and the song is found printed in a 1609 songbook, I don't think that theory holds water (pun intended).

I don't think song is simply about 'impossible things' per se, like, say, The Derby Ram. Rather, I see it as being about hallucinating while drunk.

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: JeffB
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:36 PM

A cup is rounded and has a handle, a can is straight-sided and doesn't have a handle. I don't know what is significant about the difference as far as the song is concerned, except that a cup was probably higher class. That would be in line with the song's running joke, which is that gentleman Martin is getting drunk with his servant. But see Steve Howlett's post of 16 Jul 17 above for a more imaginative interpretation.

Cans are occasionally mentioned in songs involving drink; e.g. The Hsarvest Horn

The master brings the can, he's a jolly-hearted man,/ "Come my lads and take a pull of the best" etc .....

The earliest record of the song was when it was registered by a Thomas Orwyn in 1588, so it has some history.

Subject: RE: Martin Said to His Man
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 03:03 PM

Looking at some old 15th/16th century manuscript songs these 'impossibilities' songs were fairly common then and were referred to as 'burlesques' which is of interest to me as the meaning and usage of the word 'burlesque' seems to have altered by about 1600 to mean a satire on a serious piece of work like a ballad, play, story or even a whole genre. This meaning persisted until the end of the nineteenth century when it was recycled again to also mean smutty performances in the Music Hall.