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Bob Shane is done after 47 years (2004)

DigiTrad:
COPLAS
SCOTCH AND SODA
THEY'RE RIOTING IN AFRICA (THE MERRY MINUET)


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Don Firth 26 Apr 04 - 03:56 PM
GLoux 26 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 04:09 PM
Deckman 26 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 04:34 PM
Once Famous 26 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 04:57 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 26 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 26 Apr 04 - 06:29 PM
Deckman 26 Apr 04 - 06:52 PM
Art Thieme 26 Apr 04 - 10:16 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 10:45 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Apr 04 - 10:51 PM
Rasta 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 AM
Art Thieme 27 Apr 04 - 12:56 PM
Art Thieme 27 Apr 04 - 01:03 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Apr 04 - 02:41 PM
jimmyt 27 Apr 04 - 03:14 PM
DonMeixner 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM
GUEST,John Coleman 04 Mar 06 - 08:44 PM
Anonny Mouse 04 Mar 06 - 10:13 PM
Joe Offer 05 Mar 06 - 03:34 AM
SunnySister 05 Mar 06 - 06:28 PM
Once Famous 05 Mar 06 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,Trout Pomeroy 14 Jan 13 - 05:20 PM
Elmore 14 Jan 13 - 05:27 PM
Stringsinger 14 Jan 13 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,Michael Flannery in lansdowne DELWARE county 08 Jul 18 - 05:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:56 PM

Ron, I think where I would draw the line is when none of the original members are still part of the group. It seems to me that the only reason for maintaining the name is name-recognition, and there we are at "business is business" again.

If you cut your teeth on early Kingston Trio recordings, and the Kingston Trio issues a new record or comes through town on tour, then caveat emptor. They are not the Kingston Trio that you remember. Now, they may be great. But if they are that great, then why don't they try to make a name for themselves?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GLoux
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM

I only have one question. Why did McGrath of Harlow post the lyrics to the Incredible String Band's Hedgehog Song in this thread? Did the Kingston Trio do it? Do you want them to do it?

Let's hope Bob gets well and comes back in fine form.

-Greg


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:09 PM

First - Martin, I'm not sure I agree with you when you say "They haven't been a group for years. They are a product."   There is a place, perhaps a "need", for groups that are place holders for a point in time. That said, I do think a group that is a continuing touring band needs to incorporate new material, and having seen the Kingston Trio last fall I do think they work toward that.   Sure, 90% of the show is re-treads of old material, but that is what the audience expects.

Don - I do agree with your points, and I also agree with most of Martin's.   My point is that the Kingston Trio has been an active group and yes, they are maintaining the name for recognition purposes. Grove & Haworth could easily form a new act, and they could also create a whole new sound and playlist.

As you say, "caveat emptor". The person who is most likely to buy a ticket for the Kingston Trio would be sorely disapointed if they did not hear all the hits they are expecting and were subjected to an evening of new songs, no matter how good they may be.   

I feel that Martin is right (to an extent)when he said that "they have recorded virtually nothing with any impact" in the past few decades. The fact that they are able to maintain an audience after 47 years speaks for something. They are entertainers first and foremost, and to that end they are doing a credible job. To a casual fan, the name "Kingston Trio" means something, even if they cannot name the original three members of the group.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Deckman
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM

Alright you guys!!!! Enough of this compatibilty!!! You are all being far too NICE to each other. KNOCK IT OFF!!!! Bob


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:34 PM

Screw you Bob!! We will be as nice as we want!!!!


:)


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM

You nailed it Ron, when you said "causal fan." Casual fans probably wouldn't know one name from another anyway. They take their gray heads out, drop $40 on the Kingston trio or the Four Freshman, buy a CD from 1-5 recorded years ago of all the old hits by maybe 1 or 2 of the performers still with the group then that they just saw on stage. These CDs usually don't have any picture on the cover so you can't really tell anyway. Then they go home and watch a PBS special from 2-4 years ago, again a few different faces, and they still don't know or don't care. Yes, Grove & Haworth could easily form a new act and create a whole new sound and playlist, but business wise they are not stupid.

There are plenty of acts like this duping the public, playing those Tastes of Your Town and county fairs every summer. Usually they have 1 guy from the original who owns the name. I found it very hard to accept the Trio when only Shane was left. Still there was some true lineage to the original. Now with him 70, on oxygen, and in overall poor health unfortunately, this is just a clone band. Too bad. Let go. Nothing goes on forever.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:57 PM

I guess I only disagree with you on the part where you say they are "duping" the public.   The fact is that when they play those towns, the people who come out are looking for exactly what they find. While I don't consider myself part of the audience that you describe, I do think that audience needs to be served. That audience will get their moneys worth and that is the way it should be. For a brief moment the music brings them back to a different time and place. That is a function of music that should not be forgotten. A good song and a good performance is an artform as well. It may not be our cup of tea, but someone else likes it. Far be it from you and I to make the decision for them.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM

I'll just continue to play an old record every now and then.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 06:29 PM

This has really been an interesting discussion.   I have to say that, and here I agree with Ron, PPM was a bad analogy. You really cannot have a group with their given names replaced by different names and still be called by the former. You can, however, keep a group name i.e Kingston Trio, Weavers, etc; and have replacements. Though not a great fan of the Kingston Trio I must say that the style and sound has stayed consistent and that, after all, is what the audience came to expect. Since the name, as said, is not one with first names I see no problem.

For many years people went to hear many famous big bands that merely changed the name from, say, Glenn Miller and his Orchestra to The Glenn Miller Orchestra. Nothing misleading there.   They maintained the style and sound of the original and gave the name of the new leader.

As to The Weavers.   Their work stayed pretty much the same with the replacements for Pete Seeger.   For many years I, too, thought that he could not be replaced. Years later when reading the book by Robert Koppelman (and interviewing him) and in recalling all those wonderful concerts I saw I came to realize that it was Lee Hays that probably could not be replaced. Without playing an instrument he was, to me, the persona of the group.

The group Work O The Weavers truly does them justice in the sense that they present a "docudrama" of the group with the sound being an almost perfect replica of the group. Yes, David Bernz of the group was very close to Hays while he (Bernz) was in his youth and brings much insight and humor into the production.

Now to say goodbye in a way that will make you people who think this is all too polite happy--=-=#$@#%^^&--you to

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Deckman
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 06:52 PM

TOO FUNNY! (thanks, I needed that) Bob


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:16 PM

Yeah, but it's not folk music !!!!!

;-)

Art


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:45 PM

Art, they never said it was!!!


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:51 PM

Cripes....I have several LimeLighter albumes/cuts....if he dies....will they be worth more....

If they will be worth more....should I buy more on e-bay....and get a hedge on the market value? Will someone please post the immediate hour of his passing to the MC.org?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

This should not be viewed as a solicitation, nor an advice to buy....it is for informational purposes only.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Rasta
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 AM

its folk music all the way ,in a big way ,were just one too many morings and a thousand miles-----rastaaa


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:56 PM

I really enjoy speaking out on this. It seems to polarize and separate those who belong here --- and those who don't. ;-)

I do wish we could do that in Iraq. ;-(

Art Thieme ;-)


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 01:03 PM

Not to mention awakening Gargoyle from his task guarding the hoard of like Smaug in his cave waiting for a sniff of orc or hobbit or whatever. Strange, he avoids Gollum like it was a Tribble and he was a Clingon (to mix a metaphor). Maybe Gargoyle IS Gollum. ;-)

Art


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 02:41 PM

I gargoyle with Listerine every day, Art.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: jimmyt
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 03:14 PM

I am curious as to what criteria you feel makes people belong here or not, Art?


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM

Jimmy,

I am sure Art's only serious criteria is whether or not the person still breathes.

:-)

Don


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,John Coleman
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:44 PM

I've read thru most of the preceeding comments...loved every minute. Would I have ever picked up a banjo in 1959 and still be playing it daily at age 62 had it not been for the KT? Probably not. Would I have ever met the hundreds of great people, musicians and otherwise had it not been for the great music of the KT? Probably not! I still listen to their albums...my 4 kids know most of the words to their music, and someday, when I'm dead, I want their music played at my funeral, and I want to go the same place that the now departed Dave Guard, Bob Gibson, and the eventually-to-depart Billy Faier, Bob Shane, Pete Seeger,just to name a few, and just sit there for an eternity and listen to that absolutely wonderful folk (or whatever you want to call it) music. God bless Bob Shane and may he have some more years to sing, play, and entertain us.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:13 PM

Nice sentiment, John. And agreed for me too. I missed this original debate but a more recent thread on the most influencial folk album-and many felt it was the first red KT outing-got me back into looking at the Trio again. Shane is still retired I guess and another personnel change in that Haworth is gone and replaced by a replacement Limeliter-Rick something...so now it's the Kingstonliters I guess. LOL. I understand Martin's point on this. The group is recycling its repertoir from back when it was Shane/Reynolds/Guard/Stewart I guess. But allegedly there have been and WILL be some new recorded material and it ain't gonna be all retreads...so I wonder if the feeling will change if this "new" KT lays down 11 or 12 songs on a CD never done by the originals?

One thing's fer sure: if yer goin' to a concert by anyone named "the Kingston Trio"-there's gotta be "Tom Dooley" and "M.T.A." in there or else. However nobody's gonna do "Scotch and Soda" like Shane. Even Sinatra wouldn't touch that tune, and stole another--"verY Good Year" offa the last Guard trio album, and sold a million copies of it. Shane did IMO the ultimate version of that too. I wonder how Shane is coping with his enforced retirement??? I say more power to whoever's on stage with the KT name..and NO you couldn't have Peter, Saul and Harry!!!


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:34 AM

I gather that the current members of the Kingston Trio are George Grove (who has been a member of the Kingston Trio since 1976), and former Limeliters Bill Zorn and Rick Dougherty. Dougherty has a wonderful tenor voice; but the KT hasn't had that kind of tenor before and I think it will have a real effect on their song. Yes, they may end up sounding more like the Limeliters than the KT.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: SunnySister
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 06:28 PM

Rick Dougherty is an absolutely wonderful tenor and has beautiful crystalline voice that, I think, works well with the "Kingston Trio" sound. He is an entertainer, to be sure, and a very well-trained voicalist (he was in opera before joining the Limeliters).

I don't know if I need to apologize here- I am not a purist. I just like wonderful musicians playing and making a living- especially in folk music.

I wish the former KT performers, the current and the future ones, the very best and am glad the songs and the people keep coming.

--SunnySister


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 08:24 PM

Yes, but Art thinks it's not folk music and none of us who loved that stuff and got started with it belong here.

Is this why I have been distancing myself from that element of the so called folk community?


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,Trout Pomeroy
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:20 PM

Bob Shane is forever. From old albums to new CD releases available from The Kingston Trio website to satellite radio, his signature voice and uplifting spirit endure into eternity. Accessible, real, funny and quite gracious, Bob is there for those who visit the site, adding notes to product shipments, answering emails and supporting others' art. He also helps host annual Kingston Trio camps in Phoenix, glorious events that attract the truly devoted, pickers, players, admirers and legions of people like us whose lives were entirely transformed by the pure magic the Trio evoked in the studio and on stage. I love the guy.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:27 PM

Great entertainer. Still love his version of "Scotch and Soda."


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 06:02 PM

"If it weren't for the commercial interest that developed, we may not have had a folk revival."

I don't agree with this statement. Folk music was never dormant before the commercialization of it. There was plenty of interest in it, much of it fostered
by Left Wing activists which spawned many folklorists like Archie Green, Alan Lomax,
Ken Goldstein, and musician performers such as Pete Seeger, Bob Miller, Paul Robeson, Bess Lomax Hawes, Hally Wood, Aunt Molly Jackson, Florence Reese, Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie and early Burl Ives, Josh White, Rolf Cahn, Barbara Dane, Jo Mapes, Theo Bikel, Odetta, Cynthia Gooding, Tony Saletan, Derroll Adams, Ernie Lieberman, Win Stracke, Leon Bibb, Betty Sanders, Vera Hall, Richard Dyer Bennet, Tom Glazer, The Almanac Singers, Washington Square on sunday afternoons, many artists on Library of Congress field recordings such as McKinley Morganfield (AKA Muddy Waters) and the list is long with too many names to mention.

I argue that because a folk ballad is a form of journalism, sometimes highly political and controversial, the rise of the commercial aspects of folk music owe much to musical political activists like me. Remember that SingOut! was named after the Pete Seeger, Lee Hays song "If I Had a Hammer". Also, that the big hit for the KT was Bess Lomax Hawes and Jackie Alpert's song, "Charley on the M.T.A." which was written as a campaign song for Walter J. Obrien, Independent Progressive Party candidate for Boston's mayoral race and was introduced on a sound truck to promote him.

Sam Hinton in California recorded Vern Parlow's "Old Man Atom" which was squashed by the FCC at the time for being too "communist".   There was a substructure for the Folk Revival that predates the commercialism of the Sixties built from coast to coast by the Left. The vitality of the music was responsible for its popularity even before anyone had heard of the Weavers. It was precisely that folk music was a reaction to the commerciality of the music business that propelled its interest even into rock and roll. The Left was the perfect vehicle to foster this interest being anti-authoritarian, anti-commercial, and concerned with songs that had messages. Pete Seeger was a one man PR campaign for folk music and all the commercial groups that came after him owe him.

Union rallies often, though not plentifully, featured folk performers. We played events for Progressive functions raising money for various causes. In those days,
we called them "bookings".

What the great "Folk Scare" as Dave Van Ronk called it, was just the fact that because of the earlier vitality and interest, there were those who could cash in on it such as Al Grossman and other musical business managers. (He put together Peter, Paul and Mary.)

Also, the singer/songwriter was an outgrowth of publishers who found they didn't have to pay royalties to earlier substantial ASCAP lyricists and composers.

There was a folk revival taking place long before it hit the charts. The KT found a way to fuse the revival on a commercial level by combining it with the frat house audience. They just stepped in front of the parade.

If anything, the commercialization of "Mighty Wind" folk music sapped the vitality of the growth and weakened a real interest in authentic traditional music for many years. But it was always there and always will be regardless of who cashed in on it.

Bess Lomax Hawes started the first folk song guitar classes in the country and the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago still teaches many people about the medium, all before the commercialization of the "Folk Scare".

The revivalist aspect of folk can be attributed to a political "socialist" outlook typified by the early issues of SingOut! under the editorial policy of Irwin Silber.

Pete Seeger found his wings as a performer singing for the Henry Wallace campaign in front of thousands.

I give the ownership of the Revival to the Left, rather than the commercial music hucksters.


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Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,Michael Flannery in lansdowne DELWARE county
Date: 08 Jul 18 - 05:01 AM

Dear Bob Shane IWOULD like me to tape letter to you it's been a long time seeing you
And for your memories I never forget meeting you at brandies whaft RESTURANT in philadephia talk about old times and playing that guitar you had in my family there were 2 other members who saw trio Peter yarrow my brother Sean and sister Maureen meet Mary travers I meet you that fair today yours songs in my house are played! In my jugement you were so kind of meet me in philadephia show I'll never forget you they were great show I would like tape letter back m y Email address is
Michael Flannery 60@i cloud. Com! The Kingston trio contuine in tradition but Bob Shane we will never forget you will pray to you everyday!


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