Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan

Subject: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 05:25 AM

When Bob Dylan came to England in 1962 to make "Mad House in Castle Street", he went round various folk occasions and hoovered up songs, most notoriously from Martin Carthy. Now, I imagine he could hardly have avoided hearing, and being influenced by, Cyril Tawney songs. And I have a couple of times heard a rumour that a tape exists of Dylan singing "Sally Free and Easy". Can anyone shed any light on this rumour?

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 06:34 AM

Track 13 on the CD "The Genuine Bootleg Series" issued 1996 according to www.allmusic.com

Not sure how genuine that is though as it's not one of the "official" bootleg series as far as I can see.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:37 AM

Kevin: I'm intrigued. Do people make non-genuine Bob Dylan bootlegs? Do you mean this could really be a recording of someone imitating Bob Dylan singing "Sally Free and Easy"? This might be almost more interesting than the real thing.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 06:36 AM

"Bootleg Bootleg Tawney."

Wasn't he Secretary General of the UN onetime?

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 09:54 AM

Hi Greg.

I'm no Dylan expert (I leave that sort of thing to Keith "mussalami" Rusby!). I'm just intrigued by the fact that the actual record company call their CD the "official" bootleg, sort of a contradiction in terms. So the Bootleggers then issue theirs as the "genuine" bootleg.

I have heard rumours that there are some bootlegs which are faked and not Dylan at all, and others say they are Dylan but the rumours are put around by the record company to stop people buying them. Since I'm not a dylan completeist it doesn't bother me in the slightest as I wouldn't be buying them, fakes or not.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 10:25 AM

There is quite an interesting culture around some bootlegs.
The Rolling Stones are probably the world's most bootlegged band and there is more than one reason to suspect that both the quality and the quantity of the products are not a coincidence. In the early seventies they left Decca amid great acrimony. They had a contractual obligation to give Decca one more single. What they did was to sit Mick Jagger on a stool and he strummed a guitar ballad "C.......er Blues". It's funny in a schoolboyish sort of way, but it is, of course, quite unreleasable. This recording has proved remarkably easy for collecters to find as have any number of mixing desk quality live recordings. Some people suspect that Decca allowed this to slip out - thus depriving the Stones of royalties - others suspect that the band themselves allowed it to happen - to piss off the record company. It still seems unlikely that anyone will tell the truth in the near future.
Bob Dylan stayed with CBS for a very long time, but there was no official live album released by him until the early seventies - I bellieve it was, "Before The Flood". I don't think there was anything like the same amount of antipathy between Dylan and CBS. However, as we knew all along, there was plenty of stuff in the vaults. We may well see plenty more old material emerge unexpectedly.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM

Oh, for sure. They could go on releasing new Dylan material (particularly live material) forever, and I expect they will.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:33 AM

Can anybody tell me from personal experience that this recording, of Dylan singing the Cyril Tawney song, exists? Derek Schofield repeats the story in today's Guardian(in Cyril's obituary), but I have yet to have receive positve confirmation of its existence.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:45 AM

http://theband.hiof.no/albums/boot_ten_of_swords.html
There's a link to a series of Dylan bootlegs. I don't think there is much doubt that he did record the song.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: breezy
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 11:56 AM

Who has more songs being sung?

In folk clubs and festivals, Cyril certainly outdoes Dylan.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 12:07 PM

I would just like to hear testimony from one person who has actually heard the record, as opposed to the multitude of people who have told me that a bloke in a pub told them that he had heard about it on the internet. I would love to believe it, I would like to think that dear old Cyril taught little Bobby how to write songs, but please please please, where is the recording????

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: GUEST,padgett (at home)
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 12:26 PM

breezy probably off topic but who has more songs sung at festivals

and folk clubs Keith Marsden and Cyril must be greater than Bob Dylan!

Ray Padgett

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: GUEST,Ballyholme
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 12:34 PM

I have heard the recording of Dylan singing "Sally Free and Easy". Geoff Harden organized a folk club in Belfast some years ago and when Cyril guested one evening, Geoff played the Dylan recording over the PA system. A poor quality recording, as I remember, but I had no reason to question the authenticity of the recording. I only ever bought one Dyland bootleg myself and the quality of the recording was so bad I eventually gave it away.

Subject: RE: Cyril Tawney/Bob Dylan
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 27 Apr 05 - 05:01 PM

Kevin Sheils on 29 April 2004 above gave the details. From my Bob Dylan fan contacts, I had this, "it`s part of the columbia studio sessions Aug/Oct 1963, played on piano". Cyril himself refers to Dylan recording the song on the notes to Navy Cuts CD.
The Guardian heavily edited the obituary I'm afraid.
Derek