Debate: It's Just a Song

Subject: RE: Debate: It's Just a Song
From: dianavan
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:57 AM

I just returned from the neighborhood coffee house where several young folk singers had their turn at the mike. Since the owners are Georgians (Russians) the ladies from their church were clustered around the far table. I was sitting with the singers when the owner clued them into who the audience was. They adjusted accordingly. The first set was lots of fun, complete with some Russian folk tunes. It wasn't until the ladies went home, that the real, hard-hitting lyrics began.

I especially enjoyed myself because there was a young woman singing that I hadn't seen in ten years. She was a single mom back then and in need of lots of emotional support when she learned she would be raising the child on her own. She sang her heart out and I almost cried when she sang, You Gotta Dance when the Spirit Says So. I see how far she's come and I know singing about her joy and her pain has helped her grow. I am so proud of her.

I think folk singers should sing when the spirit says so. If you're always worried about the reaction of the audience, maybe you need to find a new venue. That said, if forewarned, there's always room for a little respect if the situation calls for it.

Subject: RE: Debate: It's Just a Song
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:46 PM

As Miss Manners once said, it's not nice to fool people.

Even fiction has its rules. First, fiction should be identified as fiction; it shouldn't be passed off as truth. Secondly, fiction should have a moral sense. If a person tells a fictional story in which bad things happen, he should let you know somehow that he, the artist, knows that the bad things are bad. He shouldn't leave you with the impression that he's some kind of monster that lacks normal feelings of empathy, or a sense of justice.

See the film "Man on the Moon" in which Jim Carrey portrays Andy Kaufman. Andy was a talented comedian, but he sometimes got so carried away with bringing his characters to life—especially one obnoxious character that he called Tony Clifton—that he failed to let the audience in on the joke, and people were offended.

On the other hand, the mental confusion that you feel when you aren't quite sure whether someone is kidding—is often a "teachable moment" in which you ask yourself some profound questions like, "What is comedy, anyway? What is art?" Maybe Kaufman and the performer you saw, Emily, were trying to create moments like this—but I doubt it.

Subject: RE: Debate: It's Just a Song
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:27 PM

Ya know, emily, you raise the most interesting questions. People often think of folk-singers as those capable of facing nothing more drastic than a hot cup of cappuccino in a bistro. But the fact is that a lot of social mechanisms are brought in to being just to make it easy to avoid facing the unpleasant aspects of life such as getting so het up in jealous fires that you commit a scandalous murder, or a treachery of some sort, or feeling obligated to expose the raw stuff of the human soul in ordinary experience such as love... anyway, this is the critical issue: is there a place where human experience exceeds human-ness, and therefore should not be talked about? If Tom Dooley can sing about murdering Laura Foster, what sort of human passions should be shunned and never discussed? And, for God's sake, why???????

I do not believe there are easy answers to any of these questions.

But thanks, at the very least, for holding out for the right questions!!


A

Subject: RE: Debate: It's Just a Song
From: Bill D
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:20 PM

some songs are trite, some are shallow, some are trivial, some are naval-gazing banality....but these are not actually 'offensive', except to intelligent, sensitive, arbitors of good taste like me. ;>)

Songs such as you describe are not usually performed in the circle where I hang out, so I am having trouble thinking of any specific ones. (I have heard rock & roll and rap stuff that I considered beyond tasteless and into offensive crap, but I blocked out most memories of the details....and I barely consider that genré relevant to the question.)

No..."it's just a song" is NOT a defense against subject matter designed to shock and cause distress without a good reason. One example which is shocking and distressful, but which makes a point which absolves it is "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda"....horrible imagery, but moving and important.

I think a lot of the difference today is that so many songs written these days are 'told' in the 1st person, whether true or not, and tend to be just "wearing the heart on the sleeve" personal visions, instead of the more universal viewpoint that traditional 'folk' songs used to portray.....so it is harder to identify with them. (The soldier in Bogle's "......Waltzing Matilda" represented ALL men sent off to kill and die.)

It is not required that a songwriter 'go easy' on the audience, but if they want ME to pay attention, they need to have a song that is 'crafted' to say something, not just strung out and draped over the audience like some grade B movie that relies on car chases, naked girls and body count to make an impression.

I suppose I could refine all these thoughts and write a few more paragraphs, but maybe this will give others some ideas to bounce off of.
I hope I got somewhere near the question.

Subject: Debate: "It's Just a Song"
From: emily rain
Date: 07 May 04 - 09:21 PM

i think this topic deserves it's own thread. see "let's update sensitive new age guys" for some recent background.

i'm reminded of a concert i was at recently:
the performer sang a song with a side-story in it where, as a child, he accidentally drowns his dog by throwing him in the river (expecting him to swim back to shore), then abandons the body. this fellow is known for using a lot of autobiographical material, so all of us were sitting there slack jawed and wondering "did this really happen?!? god, has he gotten some good therapy since then?" luckily, he let us know afterwards that it wasn't a true story, but "just a metaphor". the way he said this was somewhat... er, exasperated? patronizing? dismissive? that's the way i heard it, anyway, and i wondered if he had any notion of how shocking that image had been for his unsuspecting audience members.

(apologies if you recognize this song and know who i'm talking about (especially if you are he!); i'm not intending to make him look bad, just continuing discussion)

what are some other examples of songs that some folks find truly offensive, and others find funny or at least acceptable? what songs have you defended by saying "for pete's sake, it's just a song"?

is "it's just a song/joke/metaphor/manner of speaking" an adequate defense?

have you offended people without meaning to with a song you wrote or sang? have you been offended by such a song? were there confrontations or discussions of it afterwards? did you generate more light than heat, or vice versa?

as musicians, do we have a responsibility to be gentle with our audience members? how far should that responsibility go?

as audience members, do we have a responsibility to listen with an open heart? how far should that responsibility go?