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Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier

DigiTrad:
BUTTERMILK HILL
I'LL SELL MY HAT, I'LL SELL MY COAT
SHULE AGRA or JOHNNY HAS GONE FOR A SOLDIER
SHULE AROON
SHULE AROON 1


Related threads:
Meaning: I'll dye my petticoat (53)
Chords Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier (16)
Shool, shool, shool la rue (29)
Gone the rainbow PP&M translation (13)
Chord Req: Siuil a Ruin Chords and sheet ... (33)
(origins) Lyr Req: Siul a Ruin (81)
traditional tunes in Irish gaeilge (32)
Lyr/Chords Req: Johnny has gone for a soldier (7)
Help: Siul a Ruin (36)
Help: Suil A Ruin, correct spelling? (18)
Lyr Req: Shule Aroon (23)
Help: Shule Aroon: sell my rock, rod, reel (59)
Dilemma with 'Siul A Ruin' (24)
(origins) Origins: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier (15)
Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier (10)
Shule Aroon / Shule Agra / Buttermilk Hill: Scots? (6)
Lyr Req: Johnnie Has Gone for a Soldier (10)
Lyr Add: Mickey's Gone for a Larborer (5)
Lyr Req: Suil A Ruin (6) (closed)
Siul A Run (5) (closed)


Brack& 12 Oct 98 - 06:19 AM
Brack& 12 Oct 98 - 06:49 AM
Brack& 12 Oct 98 - 06:52 AM
Graeme 12 Oct 98 - 06:54 AM
Wolfgang 12 Oct 98 - 06:57 AM
Grame 12 Oct 98 - 06:58 AM
Brack& 12 Oct 98 - 07:08 AM
Allan C. 12 Oct 98 - 08:27 AM
Graeme 12 Oct 98 - 08:49 AM
Susan of DT 12 Oct 98 - 02:09 PM
Bruce O. 12 Oct 98 - 06:26 PM
O'Boyle 13 Oct 98 - 12:14 AM
Bruce O. 13 Oct 98 - 02:32 AM
Alan of Australia 13 Oct 98 - 06:03 AM
Clay 14 Oct 98 - 05:34 AM
Alan of Australia 14 Oct 98 - 06:05 AM
Brakn 17 May 99 - 09:02 PM
Philippa 18 May 99 - 05:05 AM
Bulldog 24 May 99 - 02:36 AM
Ian Stephenson 24 May 99 - 04:45 AM
GUEST,idmv 08 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM
sapper82 09 Mar 05 - 04:56 AM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Mar 05 - 09:21 AM
squeezeldy 09 Mar 05 - 12:33 PM
Snuffy 09 Mar 05 - 07:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Mar 05 - 09:37 PM
goodbar 10 Mar 05 - 08:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Mar 05 - 08:13 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Mar 05 - 12:37 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Mar 05 - 01:55 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Mar 05 - 09:39 PM
Malcolm Douglas 11 Mar 05 - 10:09 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 Mar 05 - 03:25 PM
Azizi 12 Mar 05 - 09:22 PM
GUEST,Undomiel Regina 14 Mar 05 - 06:42 PM
Malcolm Douglas 14 Mar 05 - 07:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Mar 05 - 08:27 PM
Dave'sWife 31 Mar 05 - 06:12 PM
Dave'sWife 31 Mar 05 - 06:33 PM
YorkshireYankee 05 Apr 05 - 12:30 AM
Snuffy 05 Apr 05 - 09:05 AM
YorkshireYankee 05 Apr 05 - 07:12 PM
Snuffy 05 Apr 05 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,Allen 06 Apr 05 - 04:48 AM
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Subject: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Brack&
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 06:19 AM

Anyone know this song as sung by James Taylor? An American War of Independence song?


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Brack&
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 06:49 AM

Here are some of the lyrics.

Me oh my, she loved him so
It broke her heart to see him go
Only time will heal her woe
Johnny has gone for a soldier

Sold ruch and she sold her reel
She sold her only spinning wheel
To buy her love a sword of steel
Johnny has gone for a soldier


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Brack&
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 06:52 AM

Sorry
Sold ruch should be sold her ruck, I think.


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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY HAS GONE FOR A SOLDIER
From: Graeme
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 06:54 AM

Try this -

Here I sit on Buttermilk Hill,
Who could blame me cry me fill?
And every tear would turn a mill;
Johnny has gone for a soldier.

CHORUS: Shool, shool, shool a-roo,
Shool a-sac-a-rac-ca bib-ba-lib-ba-boo.
If I should die for Sally Bobolink
Come bib-ba-lib-ba-boo so rare-o.

I'd sell my clock, I'd sell my reel,
Likewise I'd sell my spinning wheel
To buy my love a sword of steel;
Johnny has gone for a soldier. CHORUS

Oh my baby, oh my love,
Gone the rainbow, gone the dove.
Your father was my one, true love;
Johnny has gone for a soldier. CHORUS

I got it from a Revolutionary history web site, so I think it's a pretty authentic version

Graeme


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 06:57 AM

it can also be found in the Digital Tradition Database via the upper right hand search window.


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Grame
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 06:58 AM

Also it's on the DT database as "Buttermilk Hill" (Slightly different version to the one I just sent.

Cheers

Graeme


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Brack&
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 07:08 AM

Many thanks. Mick Bracken.


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Allan C.
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 08:27 AM

As to being associated with the American War of Independence, I am fairly certain that it has been sung during virtually every war for the past seven hundred years. A history I read indicated that it was widely spread by various Irish troops which were hired as mercenaries just about every time anyone decided to have a war.


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Graeme
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 08:49 AM

Allan

Yes, I think you are right - but this one's inclusion of "Buttermilk Hill" links it more to the AWOI (It's in Pennsylvania). Actually, it makes me wonder why the name "Johnny" appears in a number of American military folk songs - certainly the American Colonials were referred to as "Johnathens" by the British Royal Navy in both the War of Independence and the 1812 war - and American privateers long before that.

But, then - perhaps it was just a common name!

Cheers

Graeme


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Susan of DT
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 02:09 PM

a search for shule gets 3 versions of shule aroon/shule agra. From there you can see that they all have filenames of shularn(some number) and a search for shularn* pulls up 5 versions of Johnny has gone for a soldier and its relatives.


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Bruce O.
Date: 12 Oct 98 - 06:26 PM

The recently published (July) 'Sources of Irish Traditional Music' gives for the first two tune versions of "Shule Aroon" to be published the ones in Moore & Stevenson's "A Selection of Irish Melodies. In Bk. 9 (1825) is "I wish I was on yonder hill" and in Bk. 10 (1834) is "Shule Aroon". These are slight variants, both in C time, A minor.

1: Text from Perthshire, Scotland, in 'A Ballad Book', by C. K. Sharpe, 1823.

I went to the mill, but the miller was gone
I sat me down and cried ohone!
To think of the days that are past and gone,
Of Dickie Macphalion that's slain.
Shoo, shoo shoolaroon
To think on the days that are past and gone,
Of Dickie Macphalion that's slain.

I sold my rock, I sold my reel,
And sae hae I my spinning wheel
And 'a to buy a cap of steel
For Dickie Macphalion that's slain.

I don't know when a text of the Irish song was first published.

2: Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society, c 1910.

"Siubhail a Ghraidh"

I'll sell my rock, I'll sell my reel,
When the flax is spun, I'll sell my wheel,
I'll buy my love a suit of green--
'S go dtheidh tu a mhuirnin slan.

I'll dye my petticoat, I'll dye it red;
And round the world I'll beg my bread,
For all my parents wish me dead--
So go dteidh tu a mhuirnin slan.

I wish I were on yonder hill;
Tis there I'd sit and cry my fill,
Till every tear would turn a mill--
So go dtheidh tu a mhuirnin slan.

It's often I sat on my true love's knee,
And many the false story he told me;
He told me things that could never be--
So go dteidh tu a mhuirnin slan.

I wish I were on the top of a wall--
The top of a castle would be higher than all-
I'd view the hurl and I'd spy the ball,
And I'd know my true love among them all.

I think it's likely that "Cavallily Man", c 1660, is a reworked version of a Scots or Northumberland song of the 1640's or 50's, and later versions stem from that. [See "Cavalily Man", c 1660, in the Scarce Songs file on my website, for the "I'll sell may rock, I'll sell my reel" verse. Its tune is called "Roger the Cavalier" in a 17th century Scots tune MS.]

Jack Campin posted an unusual version of "Shule Aroon" from Lady John Scott's MSS in NLS on the Scots=L newslist yesterday (Sunday) morning. This seems to be of the 1840's, and the MS also contains a badly noted copy of the tune, which doesn't look much like the Irish one.

Bruce Olson


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: O'Boyle
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 12:14 AM

It's also known as "Walk, My Love" with a slightly different chorus:
Walk, walk, walk my love
Walk with grace and softly move
Walk through that door and bring me joy
My own one, my soft spoken boy

The different versions are probabably due to different translations. "Walk, my love" being Dominic Behan's translation.

Slainte

Rick


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Bruce O.
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 02:32 AM

Where and when is this Gaelic 'original'?


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 06:03 AM

G'day,
Also Siuil a Ruin. Recorded by groups such as Clannad.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Clay
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 05:34 AM

If I remember correctly, this was recorded by Peter Paul, & Mary in the Sixties. With a verse that went something like: I'll cut off my hair men's clothing I'll put on, I'll walk as your comrade as we march along.

Clay


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 06:05 AM

G'day,
The PP&M version is called "Gone The Rainbow"!!! on the "Moving" album. The nonsense chorus seems to be a corruption of the Gaelic.

I forget where the following came from and it may be at odds with Bruce O's posting above, but the version Alison and I sing has a verse about the young man going to France:-

The song (Siuil A Ruin) tells of a woman's love for a soldier who has fled to France after the final surrender in 1691 of the Catholic armies to William of Orange's Protestant forces at Limerick.

These soldiers were "The Wild Geese" who fought for Ireland in the armies of France and Spain.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Brakn
Date: 17 May 99 - 09:02 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Philippa
Date: 18 May 99 - 05:05 AM

as others have said, there are a few versions in the Digital Tradition data base. See also thse threads:
Johnny has gone for a soldier
Shule Aroon
siúl a rúin

The latter thread has loads of lyrics and information. It includes Irish language lyrics of 18th century origin, as requested by Bruce O in this thread. There was some debate over whether the Buttermilk Hill version originated from the American War of Independence or the American Civil War, so I'm pleased to see the issue resolved in favour of the earlier war.


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Bulldog
Date: 24 May 99 - 02:36 AM

John Tams sang a version in the film series "Sharpes Rifles" You can get the CD "Music Of Sharpes Rifles" comes with reference to the songs on the cover written by John Tams and Dominic Muldowney.. Good Stuff! Regards: dave.


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Subject: RE: Johnny has gone for a soldier
From: Ian Stephenson
Date: 24 May 99 - 04:45 AM

I believe that the fantastic American/Irish band "Solas" do a lovely version of it.
Cheers,
Ian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: GUEST,idmv
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone knows the lyrics to a version I have on my pc, because I can't seem to get the exact text of the chorus right! I come as far as:

Shule shule shule agra
[...] lead the way
until then I woe the day
Johnny is gone for a soldier

I have found so many different lyrics for this one song and it annoys me greatly that I still didn't find a version that matched mine! Anyone?

Irene


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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY HAD GONE FOR A SOLDIER
From: sapper82
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:56 AM

I bought a CD of the Broadside Band playing Playford and found a tune "Lady Catherine Ogle" on it. The last lines of the A and B parts of the tune fitted the line "Johnny had gone for a soldier" so well that it lodged in my brain for so long that I ended up writing the following to it:

At break of day on the on the King's Highway,
As we were marching o'er hill and dale,
I met a fair maid and she did bewail,
That her Johnny had gone for a soldier.

I says to this maid, "Come sit upon my knee,
Under the shade of yon spreading old oak tree,
And I'll tell to you of the deeds that were done
By them that have gone to be soldiers."

CHORUS: We marched on our way o'er the King's Highway,
To the fife and the drum, but what shall become,
When the bayonets slash and the bullets crash,
Of them that have gone to be soldiers?

She sits on my knee underneath that big oak tree,
And I kisses her and she kisses me,
And then I shows her the things to be done,
By them that have gone to be soldiers.

Then up says this maid what shall become of me?
For I have lain with you underneath that big oak tree,
And I says to her, "Why don't you follow me,
And share the life of a soldier?" CHORUS

Now long years have gone and the wars they are all done.
I no longer march to the fife and the drum;
But the maid has stayed with me and she never rues the day
That she went and she followed a soldier. CHORUS TWICE


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:21 AM

Somebody commented on the name Johnny, above. I remember the last line as "Daddy has gone for a soldier." This ties in better with the presence of a baby.

I looked up "ruck" in my unabridged dictionary. There are a few definitions, (a wrinkle in cloth, a ridge in a road, the pack of horses following the leader in a race), but none of them makes any sense in the second verse of this song. "Ruck" is probably a corruption, and it ought to be thrown out. Why? because as nonsense it distracts everybody from the meaningful parts of the song.

This calls for the folk process - think of a one-syllable object having to do with the production of woollen yarn or cloth and saleable by a woman. (We can assume she couldn't sell a field or farm on her own.) Sheep? ram? wool? Take your pick.

As for the nonsense syllables, I have searched my heart and decided that I cannot sing "bibba-bibba-boo" with a straight face. I've been playing this on my dulcimer and been having great fun improvising musical interludes between the verses. This is the first time I've done this, and it's great fun. My cat liked it too.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: squeezeldy
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 12:33 PM

The reference to "I'll cut off my hair, men's clothing I'll put on..." from the PP&M album is a different song. It is called "The Cruel War." However, the guy's name is also (you guessed it) Johnnie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 07:38 PM

Leeneia,

In most versions it's "rock", not "ruck". There's a whole thread about it here Help: Shule Aroon: sell my rock, rod, reel


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:37 PM

True, most versions have rock, which seems to be the drop part of a spindle.

I see 'Buttermilk Hill' is mentioned here as well as in some of the other threads (too many to read) on this song. There seems to be absolutely no evidence of this version in the 18th c. (Also discussed before in one or more of the threads).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: goodbar
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 08:07 PM

james taylor played it in some video we watched in history class about the american revolution. i dug it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 08:13 PM

A lot of anachronisms in videos and motion pictures.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 12:37 PM

"Rock" is not much better than "ruck." If the point of singing the song is to express a mother's grief and worry, then it's no good setting the listeners to wondering why she would sell a rock. Even if a rock is part of a spindle, no one's going to know that.

The deeper meaning of the verse is that she has sold off the things she needs to make her living in order to protect the Daddy who has left them. In my opinion, it's more important to convey that than to cling to one archaic or dubious word.

I think this song has gone through much revision over the years, and this is just another revision. For example, the line "gone the rainbow, gone the dove" sounds modern to me. I like it, but it still sounds modern.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:55 PM

The word is neither archaic nor dubious.
Leeneia, my wife used to card and spin her own yarn, using a spindle as described in the song. The simplest device, which is called a drop spindle, or just spindle, has a 'spindle shaft,' and a 'whorl' at the bottom, which has weight and can be twirled as the yarn is spun onto the shaft. Most spinners and books on the subject call the 'whorl' a 'weight,' but some call it a 'rock.' In more mechanized systems, the 'whorl' is on a pully.

In the song, the "rock" applies to the entire spindle, shaft and weight. the "reel" takes and winds the thread from the spindle shaft. Usually the distance between the pegs on the wheel of the reel, and an entire turn, are set distances so that it is easy to tell how much thread is put on the reel. Most have a clicker that sounds with each full turn, as an aid in counting.

Now how are you going to make this understandable to an audience that knows nothing about spinning?? "Whorl" would mean no more than "rock." Add a new verse of explanation?

"Why not change to the verses in other 19th-20th c. versions:
I sold my flax, I sold my wheel,
To buy my love a sword of steel,---
or:
I'll sell my frock, I'll sell my wheel---
Both of these would be understandable. I would guess that 'rock' is a mistake for 'frock.'

"Gone the dove---": poetic and evocative. American versions of "Johnny" are all "modern (19c and later)," so I fail to see the problem. Or use the Peter P & M version with the memorable(?) "come bibble in the boo."


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHULE AGRA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 09:39 PM

Several versions of "Shule Agra" have been posted in thread 7985: Suil a Ruin
Not yet posted (?) are the versions containing the first mention in America of Buttermilk ("Butthermilk") Hill, a hill in Ireland which has several aliases; "Brandon Hill," "yonder Hill," etc.
The versions concern Johnny fighting for the Raj in India, and seemingly are 19th c. The false dialect suggests these versions may be from some music hall, sung in the 1850s-1860s. Who is S. F. D.?

Lyr. Add: SHULE AGRA No. 1 (Bombay)

Arrah, Johnny's gone across the say
To fight the nagurs in Bombay,
And my heart is sad and weary to-day,
Och, why did he go for a soldier?

Chorus:
Shule, shule, shule agra,
Time will never fade or change,
Bathershin Nabocklish Aoolahan marule,
Ah, Johnny's gone for a soger.

An' if my gorsoon in the wars gets slain,
And never comes back to me again,
I'll become a loonatic and die wid the pain,
Arrah, why did he go for a soger?

Och, I wish I was on Butthermilk hill,
Faix an' I was there I would cry my fill,
A,' its every tear would turn a mill,
Musha Slathereen ma colleen bouchal deelish.

Lyr. Add: SHULE AGRA No. 2 (Return)
(Or the Return of Johnny- by S. F. D.)

Oh! Johnny's come from across the say,
He's bate the nagurs from Bombay,
And me heart is joyous and light to-day -
Och! Isn't he the boy for a soger?

Chorus:
Shule, shule, shule agra,
Here he is, come from afar, -
Bathershin Nabocklish Aoolahan marule,
Johnny's the boy for a soger.

Sure, me own gorsoon's escaped being slain,
And now he's come back till me again;
He's got bags of goold which he did gain-
Arrah, Johnny's the boy for a soger.

Och! now I'm here on Butthermilk hill,
Faix, an' as I'm here I'll dhrink my fill,
An' it's ivery dhrop can turn a mill,
Since Johnny's returned a soger.

H. D. De Masran, Publisher, New York (no date, but 1850s-1860s)
America Singing, Nineteenth-Century Song Sheets.
American Memory


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 10:09 PM

"Frock" and "ruck" are almost certainly mistakes for "rock", an extremely common and well-known term when this song was younger.

The link above to the relevant discussion is interesting and informative. At the time, I knew next to nothing of spinning terminology, and learned some useful things from people who knew what was what. No real point in going over the same ground again in this old thread, seemingly revived at random out of many others.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 03:25 PM

The De Masran parodies, although mentioning Bombay, may be American of Civil War era, but I couldn't resist calling the unknown or imaginary "Butthermilk Hill" Irish. "Putnam Hill" also is used in several American versions. Again, no American versions are known before Civil War or famine times.

In the Bodleian Library, there is a Cork-published sheet (Harding B 26(602) of Shule Agra which has "I'll sell my rack" - also understandable to any weaver. As noted by Malcolm, rock is in some old versions, and is known to any spinner and weaver.

In a parody printed in Dublin in the 1860s (Harding B 26(497), our hero has gone to "Rusia."


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Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY CUCKOO
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 09:22 PM

"Johnny Cuckoo" is another military song that includes the name Johnny..[duh!]

This song is included in Bessie Jones and Bess Lomax Hawes 1972 book "Step It Down" [p. 71]. I also have a recorded version of it, also attributed to Bessie Jones on Alan Lomax's 4 CD set "Sounds of the South, from the Georgia Sea Islands to The Mississippi Delta.

The words to that song are:

All:   Here comes one Johnny Cuckoo.
       Cuckoo, Cuckoo.
       Here come one Johnnt Cuckoo.
       On a cold and stormy night.

       What did you come for,
       come for come [here] for?
       What did you come for,
       On a cold and stormy night.

Solo: I come for me a soldier *
       Soldier, soldier
       I come for me a soldier
       On a cold and stormy night.

[Slight increase in speed, begin off beat clapping]

All:   You look too black and dirty
       Dirty, Dirty.
       You look too black and dirty.
       On a cold and stormy night.

Solo: I'm just as good as you are.
       You are. You are.
       I'm just as good as you are.
       On a cold and stormy night.

{continue with here comes 2 Johnny Cuckoos, then 3 Johnny Cuckoos etc}

end of quote.

* I wonder if these words were originally "I come to be a soldier"

Bess Lomax Hawes writes that this song originates from the ancient British game "Three Dukes A-Riding.

I believe that "Johnny Cuckoo" may have originally been composed & played as a means of preparing Black children for the inevitable racial insults that they would receive. At the same time, this song tries to build up the children's self {and group} esteem.

While I wouldn't want children to PLAY this game now, when used with great care, I see "Johnnt Cuckoo" as great way to introduce and discuss the subject of racial self concept among Black children then and now.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: GUEST,Undomiel Regina
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:42 PM

I grew up with this sung as "I'll sell my flax, sell my wool," which always made perfect sense to me. She's selling her spinning. True, it doesn't have the same connotation of desperation, but it does have the image of waiting instead, which I think is equally relevant.

Anyhow, about two years ago, I ran across this song in the BBC Sharpe's Rifles series mentioned a while ago and the line was "Buy my love a coat of steel" instead of "sword of steel" which places this at the English Civil War at the latest, as that was the last British war where armor was commonly used. The series is circa the Napoleonic Wars, so the retention of that detail works - it's like us still using the word sword in that line, despite the fact that swords are obsolete for warfare.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:35 PM

Don't look for historical accuracy in "Sharpes's Rifles", or base any opinion on any song you may have heard in it. It was full of musical anachronisms.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 08:27 PM

A version of "Shule Aroon" (you choose your spelling) from 1824 mentions a "cap of steel." I see it has grown into a coat.

Bruce Olson, thread 7985: Shule said (1999) "I'll believe that bit about the wild geese origin for "Shule Aroon" and the Revolutionary War "Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier" when I see some real evidence for it."
We have had reams more of speculation and mis-information since then, but nothing to prove that these songs are anywhere near as old as some people speculate they are.

Joe Hickerson, formerly head of the Folklore Archive of the Library of Congress, told Bruce Olson that he knew of no 18th c. broadsides (of Shule A.) at the Library of Congress, and also was skeptical that it was sung in the US prior to the US Civil War. Thread 7985, linked above.


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Subject: Lyr Add: HANS DUNDER HAS GONE FOR A SOLDIER
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 06:12 PM

Here's an unusual version I found of Jonny's Gone For A Soldier:

Hans Dunder Has Gone For A Soldier
Composed & Sung by P. Bradel Jr.,
Better known as Brudder Bones, Comic Singer of Avenue B.

I'd traveled dis Countree there und here,
I vished I had a glass ov Lagerbier;
But when I heard de news dat to me did kum,
Oh! Hans Dunder vas gone for a Solger!

Chorus
Shoo, Shoo, Skin-a-marick-a-roo,
Hy ans dis spoodle-keedle-who de duse are U!
Nicks cum a rous von de Deitchman's Hous,
Oh! Hans Dunder vas gone fur a Solger!

Some say Hans Dunder has gone to France,
There for to buy a pair of tight legg'd pants,
And if he gets them there, it's only by chance:
Oh! Hans Dunder vas gone for a Solger!

I vished I vas on yonder Hill,
I set me down and eat my fill,
And every glass of Lager vould turn a mill:
Oh! Hans Dunder vas gone for a Solger!

I vished I vas on yonder Hill,
I set me down and eat my fill,
And every glass of Lager vould turn a mill:
Oh! Hans Dunder vas gone for a Solger!

I'll sell my coat and I'll sell my pants,
I'll buy a pretzell fur Hans Dunder Hansce,
Den ven he gets to Flambasterpool why dere he can dance:
Oh! Hans Dunder vas gone for a Solger!

I'll buy a pair of pants and I'll buy them red,
All over New-York I'll eat Mahogany bread;
Why den Hans Dunder dink dat I am dead:
Oh! when he comes home from de Solger.

H. DE MARSAN, Publisher. Songs, ballads, toy-books. 60 Chatham Street, New-York.

Found this
HERE


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 06:33 PM

For a nice sized and quite readable photo of the Illustrated Sheet music to Hans Dunder Has Gone For A Solger
click HERE:
America Singing: Nineteenth-Century Song Sheets - Hans Dunder


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 12:30 AM

The deeper meaning of the verse is that she has sold off the things she needs to make her living in order to protect the Daddy who has left them.

The more things change... at least one British soldier has died in Iraq, after the body armor he was issued was taken away & given to someone else (BBC News story here). I see serious opporunities for an update here – maybe something along the lines of:

I'll sell my car, computer too
Buy my love some body armour new
And then the government I'll sue...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 09:05 AM

Ron Shuttleworth has done a tremendous song on that theme, YY. But based on Soldier, Soldier, won't you marry me, where she goes off and buys him boots, armour, a gun, etc


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 07:12 PM

Sounds like the kind of song I'd love to add to my repertoire... I've checked the DT & the forum for it – with no joy, but found some other fascinating stuff concerning Mr Shuttleworth – including the fact that you're a friend of his... so, any chance of obtaining the words?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 08:15 PM

YY, see PM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 04:48 AM

I think John Tams sings it very powerfully. Great pipes on the track too.


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