The Reuben James

Subject: The Reuben James
From: Robert
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 10:08 AM

Lokking for words & music and background info on "The Reuben James". I believe it is a US sub. (atomic?) which sank some time in the sixties/seventies with the loss of many (all?) of the crew. Possibly sung by Pete Seeger?

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The Sinking of the Reuben James in the Digital Tradition database

Search for "Reuben James" threads

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Martin Ryan.
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 11:12 AM

Good example of the way stories "grow"! Search the forum on "Reuben James" and you should get both the song and the story!

Regards

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 02:30 PM

Click here for one discussion of the song, which is one of the most-requested songs not in the database (hint, hint....). Click here for another. Click here for another thread which started to talk about the Reuben James and then got into other things, as we often do around here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: BSeed
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 02:38 PM

The Reuben James was an anti-submarine vessel accompanying a lend-lease convoy to England before the US officially entered World War II. It was sunk on Oct. 31, l941, the first US warship sunk in the war. The song, of course, is by Woodie Guthrie, and uses Wildwood Flower for the verse; the chorus is a variation. --seed

again off the top of my head, Gargoyle--I guess it's the folkie in me that keeps me from consulting official sources. (I do know all the words, and thanks to someone--was it you, know that the last verse was written not by Pete Seeger but by Fred Hellerman.)

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Pete M
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 04:49 PM

Robert,

THe "Reuben James" has been discussed before as noted by Joe, I think you are probably mixing it up with the song about the USS Thresher, an SSN which was declared lost on 10th April 1963 with all hands when a secondary (sea water) cooling pipe fractured during deep diving trials. I'm sure I have heard a song about this boat, but haven't got a copy I'm afraid, and it does not appear to be in the DB

Pete M

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Jennifer Burdoo
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 05:02 PM

Those of you who are interested might check out the URL www.uboat.net/boats/u552.htm for info on U-552 and her CO, Erich Topp, who sank the Reuben James. The Uboat.net website is a very well done site on WWII U-boats in general, and I am now in the process of writing an article for submission to it, on the Reuben James and the other US vessels that were involved in the U-boat war prior to Pearl Harbor. There were two other ships that were attacked -- USS Greer in September 1941 and USS Kearny on October 17, which lost 11 men killed. The whole system had to do with the US occupation of Iceland, which 'just happened' to be smack in the middle of the convoy routes. The US Navy volunteered to do some unofficial escorting and this was the unfortunate result. Sadly, no one in the States noticed the incidents. They also didn't notice the 'other' first US vessel to be sunk in the war, USS Panay in the Yangtze River in 1937 by Japanese air attack.

Jennifer

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 08:35 PM

Reuben James WILL be in the forthcoming
Fall release of the DT. Promise.

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 01:24 AM

....which just goes to show you that nagging works. I'll quit bugging you now, Dick. You have granted my one wish, and that's all we're allotted around here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: THE THRESHER (Phil Ochs)
From: Pete M
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 06:50 AM

Ha HA ha (maniacal luaughter) I've finally managed to find the lyrics for a song before Joe. Perhaps he does sleep after all!!

THE THRESHER
Phil Ochs

      Bm                 F#       Bm
In Portsmouth town on the eastern shore

      Em           A        F
Where many a fine ship was born.

     Bm           G
The Thresher was built

         F#           Bm
And the Thresher was launched

         Em           A           F#
And the crew of the Thresher was sworn.

          Bm           G
She was shaped like a tear

          F#          Bm
She was built like a shark

         Em          A       F#
She was made to run fast and free.

          Bm                   G
And the builders shook their hands

         F#                    Bm
And the builders shared their wine,

       Em                  A           F#
And thought that they had mastered the sea.


      Bm                F#
Yes, she'll always run silent

     Em                F#
And she'll always run deep

            Em           Bm
Though the ocean has no pity

            A                F#
Though the waves will never weep


               Bm
They'll never weep.

And they marvelled at her speed
marvelled at her depth
marvelled at her deadly design.
And they sailed to every land
And they sailed to every port
Just to see what faults they could find.
Then they put her on the land
For nine months to stand
And they worked on her from stem to stern.
But they could never see
It was their coffin to be
For the sea was waiting for their return.

Yes, she'll always run silent
And she'll always run deep
Though the ocean has no pity
And the waves will never weep
They'll never weep.

On a cold Wednesday morn
They put her her out to sea
When the waves they were nine feet high.
And they dove beneath the waves
And they dove to their graves
And they never said a last goodbye.
And its deeper and deeper
And deeper they dove
Just to see what their ship could stand.
But the hull gave a moan
And the hull gave a groan
And they plunged to the deepest darkest sand.

Now she lies in the depths
Of the darkened ocean floor
Covered by the waters cold and still.
Oh can't you see the wrong
She was a death ship all along
Died before she had a chance to kill.

[Final Chorus Same but in past tense].

[Alternate final verse from an early Broadside tape]

And it's 8000 fathoms of the water above
And over 100 men below
And sealed in their tomb
Is the cause of their doom
That only the sea will ever know

Hope this comes out OK or I will have to summon Joe from slumber to help out.

Pete M

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 12:10 PM

Admirable job, Pete. Very few people have been able to post chords like that and make them look right. Care to tell us how you did it?
-Joe Offer- who just woke up-

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Jennifer Burdoo
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 02:52 PM

"Always run silent, always run deep?" I smell some plagiarism there....Captain Edward Beach of the USN wrote a novel of his WWII sub experiences titled "Run Silent, Run Deep." Interestingly, he also wrote a sequel, "Cold is the Sea" in which one of the first book's characters dies in a nuclear sub similar to the Thresher -- probably inspired by it.
He also published a song written by one of his crewmen aboard USS Trigger in 1943. I'll look it up, might be a nice addition to our list of warship-related lyrics!

Jennifer

Hope my first tryout of HTML worked OK....

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Pete M
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 05:12 PM

Jennifer,

Phil may well have got the phrase from the book title, but I would hardly call that plagiarism, it would probably be difficult to find a book about subs that didn't have a similar phrase in it somewhere.

Joe,
I basically followed your advice and formatted it in Word, using the Truetype font Courier New, the space bar to position the Chords, and hard returns at the end of the lines. Then replaced the hard returns with <"br"> and inserted <"pre"> tags round the courier part of the text.

There are only two types of vessels - submarines and targets.

Pete M who never served on subs but has several oppos who did.

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 05:17 PM

Well, Pete, you have worked some kind of miracle. Everybody else who has tried the <pre> command has ended up messing up all the neighboring messages. I'm going to do a "view source" and see if I can plagiarize your technique.
-Joe Offer, duly impressed-

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Pete M
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 07:15 PM

Hi Joe,
just as well I didn't know that or it would never have worked! After twenty odd (Very odd) years in the IT industry I am more than ever convinced that logic has absolutely nothing to do with computers. It's all done by mirrors and gremlins. Actually I think PC gremlins are little folk who took re-training after the market for milk curdlers dried up.

Pete M

ps

couldn't resist trying it again

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 09:59 PM

Pete, thanks for the words to the Thresher. My brother was in the silent service as a seal, supported by a fast attack sub like the USS Thresher, the USS Scorpion, like the Thresher also took down with her all hands to their 'Last Patrol' in 1968, by the grace of God my brother missed the boat & after her sinking was reassigned to another expermential sub the USS Albacore, now lying in dry dock as a museum ship less than an hour away. My brother likes some Irish songs don't know if he'll like this, maybe at least it'll get him to say a word about his time in service. Barry

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 10:44 PM

Just looking over an old thread "Steel tubs & Subs" & noticed a reference to the Thresher song & a 2nd one by Phil Ochs "The Scoripion Departs & Never Returns", I'll ask in a new thread, any knowledge. Barry

Subject: Ballad of the Thresher (Kingston Trio Recording)
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 10:53 PM

The Kingston Trio (oh come on now, I know they weren't true folk artists, but I cut my teeth, not to mention my thumb and fingers, on KT's music) did a song The Ballad of the Thresher by Allen, Nelsen, and Donald on their Sunny Side album in 1963.

It is too late at night to be transcribing, but the first verse is:

Oh, the Thresher, the finest atomic ship,
That ever dived for the sea.
Each man on board was a volunteer,
He was there 'cause he chose there to be.

I post this simply for completeness. Even in my younger years I knew this song paled beside Phil Ochs song. But in my clique at that time, you were supposed to play everything (and I do mean everything) ever recorded by KT. The pity with growing old is you remember lots you would like to forget and forget lots you would like to remember.

Anyone with the rest of the lyrics?

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 11:23 PM

Hey, Pete - I got it to work, too. The trick is to use the <pre> command, but not to use the </pre> command, which clears out all the nice formatting that Max has set up for us and messes up the entire thread.
Click here for the Phil Ochs lyrics about the Scorpion.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Pete M
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 12:01 AM

Umm - now I am confused Joe. I did use the </pre> tag!! both times!!

I told you it was Gremlins. Did you turn three times widershins and throw a milkmaid over your shoulder?

seriously though, I would have thought it was more likely that a missed end tag would be responsible for mucking up the remainder of the thread?

Pete M

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 05:10 AM

Hmmm. I'm confused, too. I guess we'll have to wait for a real wizard to explain things for us, Pete. I do know one thing you did that was right on target - you used the space bar, not the tab key, to position the chords. All in all, though, it's a bit too much like work to me.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Robert
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 05:38 AM

Many thanks,

I now have the lyrics but still need the tune or a recent discography relevant to UK so that I can buy or borrow to get the tune.

Robert

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 10:12 AM

Robert, if you want the tune to "Reuben James" and not the Thresher, the tune is "Wildwood Flower" and is in the database under that name.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 01:23 PM

Don't have time to check now, but I think the chorus for "Reuben James" is different from "Wildwood Flower," and it's just the verses that were taken from "Wildwood Flower." Am I right?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: BSeed
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 04:27 PM

Just trying to see if that chords posting stuff works with nothing but the space bar and the < br > and without leaving the threads box:


G C D C
What were their names, oh, what were their names?
D G D C G
Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James?

What were their names, oh, what were their names?
Did you have a friend on the good ship Reuben James?

--seed

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: BSeed
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 04:38 PM

Nope. It doesn't.
I'll try it my old way: Chords in parentheses (G) indicate beginning of measure. In brackets [C] come within the measure.

(G)What were their names, oh, (C)what were their (D)na[C]ames?
Did (D)you have a (G)fri[D]end on the (C)good Reuben (G)James?
What were their names, oh, what were their names?
Did you have a friend on that good ship Reuben James?

--seed

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 06:24 PM

Two efforts here. One is a simplified chord progression. It does miss a note or two, but eases some rather quick changes in Seed's version. Second, I just want to see if I have this HTML (rhymes with H double hockey sticks) down pat.

Joe is right (Max must've cleared those recent glitches up). The verses are straight Wildwood Flower. My and Seed's version of the chorus are in the key of G (I usually play Wildwood Flower in C)

  G                          C
  What were their names, oh, what were their names?
      D                        G
  Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James?
                             C
  What were their names, oh, what were their names?
      D                        G
  Did you have a friend on the good ship Reuben James?

Enjoy the song!

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: Tune Add: THE REUBEN JAMES (from Chad Mitchell...)
From: Barbara
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 08:49 PM

Does this sound right for the chorus? I had it on a Chad Mitchell Trio album and they sing harmony on the chorus, so I'm not positive what part is melody.
Blessings,
Barbara

MIDI file: rjames.mid

Timebase: 240

TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Tempo: 100 (600000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
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End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:
M:4/4
Q:1/4=100
K:C
E7G|e2edc2cB|A2AAd3c|BB2cd2ed|cc2AG4|ee2dcdcB|
A2AAd3c|BB2cd2ed|G2AGc13/4||

Subject: Tune Add: THE REUBEN JAMES (Woody Guthrie)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Oct 98 - 01:51 AM

Here's the whole tune, from Pete Seeger's Where Have All the Flowers Gone?

MIDI file: REUBEN~1.MID

Timebase: 192

Name: THE REUBEN JAMES
Text: By words & music by Woody Guthrie (1941)
Copyright: Copyright © 1942 by MCA Music Publishing
Key: A
TimeSig: 2/4 24 8
Start
0000 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 59 110 0094 0 59 000 0002 1 57 110 0544 0 57 000 0032 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 59 110 0094 0 59 000 0002 1 57 110 0256 0 57 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 73 110 0142 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0046 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 66 110 0160 0 66 000 0032 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 59 110 0094 0 59 000 0002 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0046 0 64 000 0002 1 66 110 0142 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 61 110 0142 0 61 000 0002 1 61 110 0046 0 61 000 0002 1 59 110 0094 0 59 000 0002 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 61 110 0094 0 61 000 0002 1 59 110 0094 0 59 000 0002 1 57 110 0544 0 57 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 66 110 0160 0 66 000 0032 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 71 110 0256 0 71 000 0032 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 66 110 0142 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0046 0 64 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0336 0 64 000 0048 1 73 110 0094 0 73 000 0002 1 73 110 0160 0 73 000 0032 1 71 110 0094 0 71 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 64 110 0094 0 64 000 0002 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 66 110 0160 0 66 000 0032 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 71 110 0256 0 71 000 0032 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 68 110 0094 0 68 000 0002 1 68 110 0160 0 68 000 0032 1 66 110 0142 0 66 000 0002 1 64 110 0046 0 64 000 0002 1 69 110 0094 0 69 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 66 110 0094 0 66 000 0002 1 69 110 0544 0 69 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Reuben James
M:2/4
Q:1/4=120
K:A
C2E2E4|F2E2E4|C2C2B,4|C2B,2A,4|-A,8|C8|-C2E2E4|
F2E2E4|C2C2B,4|C2B,2A,4|-A,2E2c3c|c2B2A4|
E2E2F4|A2F2E4|A,2B,2C2E2|EF3E4|C3CB,2D2|C2B,2A,4|
-A,8|E8|-E2A2c2c2|-c2B2A4|E2E2F2F2|-F2F2B4|
-B2A2G2G2|-G2G2G4|F3EA2A2|-A2F2E4|-E4c2c2|
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F3EA2A2|-A2F2A4|-A15/2||

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 09:57 AM

For pictures and technical specs of DD-245, click here and here.

The information about U-552, the submarine which sank the Reuben James and her captain, Erich Topp, mentioned in an earlier post but not hyperlinked, can be found here(U-552) and here (Erich Topp).

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 10:00 AM

The hyperlinks for U-552 didn't work. Try Captain Topp and http://www.uboat.net/boats/u552.htm>U-552.

Subject: RE: The Reuben James
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 01 - 10:05 AM

If the links for U-552 and Topp give you nothing but goo, try using the "refresh" button on your browser.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE THRESHER (from the Kingston Trio)
From: Rasta
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 04:55 AM

Oh, the Thresher, the finest atomic ship
That ever sailed for the sea,
Each man on board was a volunteer
Was there 'cause he chose there to be

Every man jack on board was a hero
Every man jack on board there was brave
Every man jack on board was a hero
Each man choose the watery grave

Oh their wives and their sweethearts they came down to port
Their last love good-byes there to say
Each promised to be tearless and brave
Promised to meet them someday

Every man jack on board, etc.

Then dive said the captain and we held our breath
A sound like she broke right in two
That was the last we ever heard of her
The last word we heard from the crew

Chorus

Oh the Thresher, now her reactor is still
But very good company she keeps
Men from the Lexington, Hornet and the Wasp
Are down there with her in the deep

Without ranting and raving, I've been around a lot of great folk music and love it all, and as far as I'm concerned THE KINGSTON TRIO with all its members were very much an influence and a whole lot of fun to boot. They did much for folk music and as well, steered a lot of young people towards Bluegrass as well. Have a great weekend end everyone—Rastaaa

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 25-Jun-02.

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Note: The Kingston Trio Sunny Side! album says this song was sritten by Allen/Nielsen/Donald, and titled "Ballad of the Thresher."
-Joe Offer-