strange singing techniques

Subject: strange singing techniques
From: early
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:28 PM

recently I have noticed a number of unaccompanied singers shaking their upper body to ? strech noted or gain some vibrato - apart from looking stupid, is there any other benefit?

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Deckman
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:17 PM

Maybe weight loss? I dunno! Bob

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: open mike
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:21 PM

i thouhgt you might be talkinig about Tuvan Throat singing!
i never saw the shaky thing....

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: open mike
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 09:23 PM

maybe they were trying to shoo mosquitos---or cicadas?

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: DonMeixner
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 12:18 AM

I find that my just singing in key is strange enough.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: early
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 10:45 AM

The technique is often accompanied by head shakeing as well, whatever the reason it makes interesting watching and listening as the notes waver dreadfully - when you add to this an inability to sing on key or tunefully it gets close to a wonky tape recording -

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 09:04 PM

"..apart from looking stupid, is there any other benefit?"

Is looking stupid a benefit?

I imagine the audience are also shaking their heads as well as the performer.

I always sing unaccompanied myself - as soon as I open my mouth the audience leaves en masse. Though I should say that after my song was over, the audience were with me all the way - but I managed to shake them off at the Bus Station. Actually I have a large female following - but I ducked into an alleyway and lost her.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: early
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 09:16 PM

guest love the humour it must help if you are as bad as you say - but seriously should these singers be told that what they are doing is having a negative impact or are they best left to enjoy their singing without constructive criticism

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 10:36 PM

When I see pseudo-trad singers singing a cappella they are often using affectations of one kind or another. There seems to always be a 'fashionable' way to sing, 'specially for the young and those with 3 songs under their belt, maybe it's peer pressure.   Apparently the promoters and audiences don't mind it, anyone who knows better quietly slips out. So what's to be gained by upsetting the system?

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 05:38 PM

early..it 'might' help to know where this is happening and what kind of songs they are singing...and whether they are professionals or amateurs, and male or female and how often you have seen this...etc...

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: John Routledge
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 07:56 PM

It is quite difficult to look as if you are enjoying singing if you are "vibrating". Seems to me to make singing even more difficult than it is already.

Hardly upsets the system to point this out although I am not losing any sleep over it.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 11:33 PM

ah! --perhaps it is a way of staying in tune! Vibrating to 440 cycles!

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Abuwood
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 05:30 AM

Early, I would like to know if something I do when I sing puts you off - I never thought of vibrating (I hope I don't), I will need some new batteries if it is a singing requirement!

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: early
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 08:01 AM

the four singers I have noticed doing this are all amatuers who sing around the clubs in yorkshire UK.
In some cases they seem to be trying to inject some emotion into the songs but for me it just ends up looking ridiculous and spoiling the delivery of some quite nice songs.
As i run an open session every week and have done for 11 years my view on the openess to all levels of singers players and styles is one of encouragement but given the difficulty in presenting folk to a wider audience, wonder if there are limits one should impose in order to present a more appealing spectacle to the onlooker.
your thoughts please M

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST,Spot at the Kennels
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 12:13 PM

I may have said this before but it takes a strong personality to stop someone from using an affectation. There is also the question of whether some really bad performers should be allowed to perfom at all. This is a knotty problem coz if a group of non folkies try your club one night and walk in just as the worst performer in the place gets up for his/her spot you are about to lose a possible new crowd coz as sure as eggs they won't stay and listen to garbage.

The problem is what we want from the genre. Do we want unlimited access for all and a permanent platform for everybody or do we want better standards (and who would be the judge).

Spot

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 12:52 PM

Take a listen to John Jacob Niles sometime if you want real folk song shaking.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 02:18 PM

Some folks get some pretty weird ideas. I knew a fellow who first developed an active interest in singing when he attended the 1960 Berkeley Folk Festival and saw Ewan MacColl live. For several days he followed MacColl around like a puppy dog and absorbed everything he heard and saw. A few weeks later he started singing (and quite well, too, I might add). But he seemed to think that to sing, he had to sit straddling a chair backwards, lean his elbows on the back of the chair, and cup his left hand behind his left ear. Fortunately, a month or two later, he outgrew it.

I've heard that when Bob Dylan first started singing rock in Hibbing, Minnesota, he sounded a lot like Buddy Holly. But then he spent time visiting Woody Guthrie, who was suffering from Huntington's chorea, a degenerative disorder of the central nervous system, and when he first started singing in coffeehouses and such, he had developed some of his weirder vocal characteristics and was jerking around spasmodically while he played and sang. Then someone commented, "He's not just imitating Woody Guthrie, he's imitating Woody Guthrie's disease!"

Of course, you could always ask the person, "Why do you do that when you sing?" then take it from there. Talk with them frankly about it. Maybe they don't know any better.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Maryrrf
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 05:11 PM

It IS possible that some people may not be aware of their nervous gestures or habits - they may sway to overcome stage fright (rocking may be somehow comforting???) I can well understand how this may be distracting.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: ddw
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 05:37 PM

I have no idea of the reason for the strange singing technique, but I agree with several others that it's probably some kind of affectation picked up from some admired singer. In the early and mid '70s everybody around Fiddler's Green Coffee House in Toronto used to ape the Ewan McC thing with the hand behind the ear or press lightly on the ear as they sang. Always seemed pretty silly to me.

As for the shakers under discussion here, I'd bet on it being a copy of some local (or not-yet-famous) rocker these kids like. Rockers do all kinds of weird things to "look cool."

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 06:04 PM

A number of years ago at Newcastelton Festival the ajudicator of the open singing competition, announced that he concidered that singing with the eyes closed was a major fault and that he had marked down any competitor who had sang in this way. Eyes closed or open may have some importance when kissing but not when singing. The only singing technique that gets my goat is using papers or books to READ the words. This creates a barrier between singer and listener and if someone can't be bothered to LEARN the words don't expect to be listened to just get extra sheets printed and hand them round.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 26 Jun 04 - 04:40 PM

There is a Tenacious D called "Inward singing" in which an innovative singing technique is employed, SInging while breathing IN may well be the way to go for all us.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 09:18 AM

"Vibrating to 440 cycles!?
Well, that would be A way of singing.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Leraud
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 10:15 AM

I always sing with my eyes closed, unless it's a funny, jolly or rude song, and then I keep them open. No rhyme or reason to any of it, I just do it and I'm too old to re-programme now. Years ago during one summer (it must have been summer because I was wearing flipflops) someone remarked that when I sang my toes turned up and I've always made a conscious effort since then to keep them firmly on the ground during the summer months.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST,folk pc99
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 11:50 AM

whilst watching a performer last week - noticed the following:-
As the chorus approached the prformer clawed the air in front of him with both hands as if to implore the audience to join in - it brought the lion in The wizard of oz to mind - he could have been auditioning for the part - strange what you notice but i cannot now watch this singer without that picture jumping to the fore in my minds eye

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 12:41 PM

I haven't been running my folk club very long, and have to say that all the artists so far have done a fantastic job.
I have a fairly large function room, and everybody sings or plays accoustic.
I feel that if you have a performer who is doing a good job from a singing or playing point of view, but have problems with what I would term, presentation style, then I think that there is nothing wrong in informing the performer about this. As some of you have already said, very often people don't always realise that they are doing such things.
As an example:-
I find very often with artists who are learning the trade, so to speak, that they sing or play very well, but when they talk to the audience, they don't always realise that people at the back can't hear them. For these artists, I think it is very important that they realise this and do something about it.
I make a point of always listening to every artist at the back of the room, so that I can offer that sort of advice. It is not at all being critical. It is about ensuring that the public can hear you.
What is the point of doing a smashing job, singing or playing, and then spoiling it by talking for 2 or 3 minutes in between songs and the audience can't hear you. It's better to sort that aspect out very quickly. If that is a problem, then don't talk, just play, until you have the confidence to talk to the audience.

I am trying to put this over as a listener, not an artist, so all you artists please don't take offence at me offering my comment. It is meant to be constructive.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Celtaddict
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 06:31 PM

There used to be a minister in Ennis, Co Clare, who led the singing from the pulpit. The books had no music, just words; apparently everyone knew the songs already. When the melody rose a third, his eyebrows went up. When it rose a fifth, he rocked up on his toes.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Carly
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 03:27 PM

Cupping one hand around your ear may look strange, but it actually can serve a purpose. As an unaccompanied singer, I do not usually put my hand to my ear while singing, but in an environment with a lot of background noise, or (even worse!) sound bleed from other music, I sometimes find it helpful, as it enables me to hear myself more clearly as I sing. I choose to look a bit odd rather than drift towards someone else's key.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Tyke
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 06:03 PM

Ah the joy's of a no smoking environment! Sorry haven't time to get in to this thread properly and risk upsetting lot's of nice people who just like a sing! Cos. I need to go outside for a fag! :-)

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 06:42 PM

As to singing with the eyes closed:

Peggy Seeger often closes her eyes when singing. When asked why, she says, "So I can watch the movie!"   Her enjoyment (and I expect, her interpretation) of the song is very much tied in with the "visuals" of the story.

I often do the same, not in imitation of Peggy (though that's reason enough, in my book) but essentially for the same reason.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 07:32 AM

I agree with Carly re the hand over the ear thing. It can be difficult to block out extraneous sounds in a crowded pub, and worse when you're a bit deaf like I am. If someone starts a tune I have to put my ear flush against the side of my guitar to find the ke.

wr.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 08:14 AM

...key, that is.

wr.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 05:46 PM

I know several folk singers, both floorsingers and "gigging" ones who do some form of shaking, or illogical hand gestures, or have some mannerism or other. In some cases it becomes a trademark of the singer; in others it can be off-putting, I agree.

Personally, I try to ignore such mannerisms in most singers (after all, I am sure I have mine too), and certainly in floorsingers; I find it easy to do so because I tend to focus on the sound rather than the overall aural plus visual performance. Except when the "act" has something to add visually of course. When the mannerism becomes an affectation it can be annoying, of course - but I haven't come across many of those.

What to do when the mannerisms of an act annoy us? As someone said above, it all depends on where you stand vis-a-vis what folk clubs are for. I am of the catholic view - let all have a go - so I just focus on the sound and ignore the visuals. Others may take a firmer view of course.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 02:50 AM

I'll have a look for your strange singing techniques when you come up George LOL :-)
Could make a quiz out of it (only joking George) Looking forward to seeing you up here.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 06:19 AM

When I cup my hand around my ear, I hear myself better. I sing in a church choir that stands near the piano, and sometimes I can't hear my own voice at all. When I cup my hand around my ear, I can hear myself. (We are planning the improve this situation.)

If you are singing a song and close your eyes, you will also hear yourself better. Try it.

I suspect that the people who shake like crazy while singing are imitating something they saw on TV.

Subject: RE: strange singing techniques
From: Carol
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 07:03 AM

When I first started singing I decided that I would always sing with my eyes open!!! This was because I find it 'off-putting' listening to people singing with their eyes closed - also you can perhaps guage the audience's reaction?

As to the having words - yes I do use words sometimes depending on the venus, as 'supports' only especially when I have senior moments i.e. I do know the song but prefer to have the words to hand and especially if it's a new song.

Don't know about the shaking, perhaps it's nerves - mI think i would find it difficult to sing whilst shaking - sometimes have that problem when practising singing and going over bumps in the car!!