semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV

Subject: A semi-hypothetical question
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 08:56 AM

If a TV program about traditional music/dance was to be made would people watch it?
Also who should present said program?
This is just a tentitive feeler to find out how people feel.

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:00 AM

Could be interesting. No idea who might present it.

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:09 AM

Kenny ROgers? Willie? A Lomax descendant? Hell, I'll do it! Or Max, he'd be good. Or for that matter, Kendall would be a hoot.


A

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:14 AM

So many cliques/camps/levels of purism. Suggest you read old threads here about such shows that members here have seen, that purported to cover your topic.

Also maybe the best place is not regular TV but teaching documentaries for education? Your local public TV station might have some leads.

Or focus on a region-- I just watched a video for example about urbanized Appalachians in Ohio cities. There are several urban areas like that, where large numbers migrated for jobs. The video I saw was not JUST about culture, but included it, and it was produced by indie filmmakers for the area's Urban Appalachian Council. Others are produced by or for Appalshop-- look around online for these and you might get some clues, whatever your topical focus was, about advancing your ideas.

I can give you a lead if you would want to focus on Alabama rural gospel music! :~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:39 AM

Hi Crystal - would the programme be made in the US or the UK (I realise it is not necessarily either of these two places, but one or the other seems a likely guess). If it was shown in the UK I would definitely be interested. I suppose I'd want to know a bit more about the proposed format before making suggestions about who would be a good presenter. Not necessarily someone from the folk music world but someone who is an intelligent but accessible figure (much as I love Tony Robinson - even I think he is a teeny bit over-exposed these days).

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:46 AM

I have found Riley Baugus' great quote to be true: "Most people like old time music. They just don't know it."

Who should present it? (Gosh, I miss Rick F!) Of Mudcatters, Art Thieme, present at the creation, might be a good choice. . .so would the Patons, who were not only present but helped create!

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: GUEST,Lindsay
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:59 AM

so no-one saw the one on Sunday afternoons on HTV West recently, about Cecil Sharp collecting folk songs in Somerset, all the "greats" were involved!!!!

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 10:11 AM

BBC made such a programme circa 1996. Me & lots of folkie chums watched it.

See here:


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008T6D6/onthewebcom-21/202-8901975-5732643

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 10:17 AM

It would be a UK program, I'm hoping to pitch the idea to the BBC (it might have a chance with the charter renewal thing soon!) but it currently depends on my producer being available to help me with the pitch.

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 10:17 AM

& presented by Dr Michael O'Sullivan, see here:http://www.rte.ie/tv/ancientireland/mosuilleabhain.html

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 10:24 AM

Would this be a one of or a series? There's been hundreds of trad. music/dance documentary or concert tv shows in the U.S. If asked, I'm sure that Mudcatters could come up with a long list of shows that they remember over the years.

Why not pitch your basic idea to us (as long as you're willing to spill you idea).

Subject: RE: A semi-hypothetical question
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 11:06 AM

If we're talking a program on traditional American music [guessing, from the spelling of 'program(me)]', I'd nominate local boy, Jeff Warner.
He knows an awful lot about all sorts of traditional American music and dance, he's charismatic, has a great speaking voice and presence, and people respect him.

I'd watch it. I think a lot of folkies would. If the mood of the program fits, viewers could included kids in school, people in college classes, teachers, people with relatives and friends who're into trad music.

Another idea, for whatever country's music the program would be about, is to have one main narrator who ties things together, and different ones for sub-genres. I'd recommend a series of programs or focusing on some aspect of traditional music, as WYS said. The field is huge, and skimming the surface is the standard. If you're only doing one program, you really have to narrow the focus. The focus may, indeed, be an overview, or it may be on a specific influence, type of music, historical event, etc.

It's difficult to talk about a presenter when I don't know what the focus of the show would be. He or she should command respect, preferably in the field. I'd rather not see someone there simply because they're already well-known. Well-known AND respected is another story, but that 'respected' bit is highly subjective.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Chris Green
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 01:22 PM

Given his appearance at the Radio 2 Folk Awards recently Stephen Fry seems like a pretty good candidate. He's articulate enough to make it interesting but witty enough to stop it from being too serious and he's quite well-known for things other than his penchant for trad music. I think the idea needs be not so much to preach to the converted but to win new converts to what is a rather misunderstood and misrepresented music scene.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music o
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 01:30 PM

The same question has been asked on the BBC Folk and Acoustic Message Board. If guest crystal is the same poster as there then I guess it's a UK based programme that's being asked about.

If not then it's just one of those concidences!

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music o
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 01:40 PM

Crystal said at 10:17:

It would be a UK program, I'm hoping to pitch the idea to the BBC (it might have a chance with the charter renewal thing soon!) but it currently depends on my producer being available to help me with the
pitch.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 02:06 PM

Make it about PELS and the sessions lost due to them.

~S~

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Kate
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 02:23 PM

Hi Chrystal,
I work for a local BBC news programme but am very interested in folk music and would be extremely interested in somehow getting involved with helping put together a programme about traditional music and dance. I've got alot of ideas and have a bit of experience to back that up. If there's anything I can do please let me know and I can tell you a bit more about my background in music and media.
Best wishes for the programme,
Kate

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Blowzabella
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 02:24 PM

Hi Crystal - do you have an email or contact number you are prepared to leave? Or if you become a member, people could send you personal messages which might be useful. Or you could send personal messages to people yourself.

For a programme on UK traditional music - whether it be the current 'scene' or the history / development of it and the many different strands that form it - I would imagine there would be a wide audience - at least as big as the recent early Music series, but probably more. As to who would present it - I quite like the idea of Stephen Fry mentioned above. Another person who springs to mind is Tim Laycock - who, I know, has already been involved with many BBC radio programmes on both folk song and dance tunes. The Skeapings (Lucy & Roddie) are, of course, experts in the field too.

Without further information, it's difficult to know what direction you want to go in though.

Best of luck though - hope it is a go-er

Val

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music o
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 02:50 PM

which tradition?

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 05:15 PM

I would.

Someone who already knows a bit about it like Ashley Hutchings, John Kirkpatrick, Martin Carthy, June Tabor or Shirley Collins. For more of an outsider who does thorough research why not Andy Kershaw, or Dylan WInter?

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 12:45 AM

Many good shows have been done. Quite a few on PBS with the Lomax collected material.

Pete Seeger's entire set of TV shows called The Rainbow Quest with all sorts of trad performers---also on PBS---are all available on video cassettes.

Back in 1961 there was a one time CBS TV program called FOLKSOUND USA. It was hosted by CISCO HOUSTON. Live guests were Frank Warner, Scruggs and Flatt, Casey Anderson, John Jacob Niles, John Lee Hooker, Joan Baez and a few others. Cisco was great. He sang Woody's "Hard Travelin"---a song I don't believe he ever recorded. I did tape the show with a hand-held mike and my 2-track Webcor reel-to-reel recorder. Sad to say that tape self destucted. I did save Cisco's songs and intros onto a cassette.--------------------I've never found that show on a video anywhere. And I HAVE BEEN LOOKING.

Yes, Crystal, shows like what you're looking for have been done. There was an audience.

And AS WE SPEAK some folks are working on an eight hour TV series called "Where Have All The Folkies Gone". It'll be done sometime in the future. Their goal from what I've been told is to make "a definitive and historical story of American Vernacular Music." What that means I am not completely sure. But I'm certain it will include many aspects of the folk revival and possibly the trad side of the coin as well. They are on the road right now interviewing lots of folks from those years.

Keep a patient but close watch.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: pavane
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 04:06 AM

I would love to watch such a program, but the problem that I and others may have is that it would probably be aired when the other half wants to watch some stupid soap (and the kids are using the VCR).

Someone (HTV or BBC Wales - not sure) did do a folk series some years ago presented by Mick Tems.

Maybe there could also be a project to identify the programs already made, like the HTV West program, and give them a wider airing (This should be attractive to the TV companies, because repeats cost less than new programs!). Cecil Sharp's work is known all over the country, after all.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Chris Green
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 05:35 AM

There was a superb programme on Beeb 2 about ten years ago called the Transatlantic Sessions where they put a load of well-known types from America, Scotland and Ireland in a remote hotel in Scotland for a week and recorded the results. Needless to say, it's never (to my knowledge) been repeated, released on DVD or vid, or had a soundtrack album put out. I was sixteen at the time and it blew me away! Anyone see it?

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM

Hi Crystal,

Yes! Yes! Yes! We do need a TV programme that reaches out to people who like folk music, but don't know it yet (because what they think of as folk music is only a diluted or distorted version of the real thing.)

As for a presenter – Stephen Fry would be witty and charming as always, but I'm not sure whether he could connect to a mass audience in the right way. Also, he's not (so far as I know) a singer or instrumentalist himself, and so wouldn't be able to get directly involved in the performances.   

Why not look around for a folk equivalent of Jools Holland ?   Billy Bragg would be good in this role, and so would Ralph McTell. Likewise June Tabor, or Northumbria's own Kathryn Tickell. Or perhaps what the show needs is a resident male-female duo - a folk Judy and Richard?   Martin and Norma would be an obvious choice, but there must be plenty of others who could make a good job of it.

There have been a number of previous attempts to put folk on British TV - some worth copying, others better avoided. My favourites so far have been the two "Transatlantic Sessions" series fronted by Aly Bain and Jay Ungar. Their combination of informal atmosphere, well-chosen repertoire, and high-quality musicianship was irresistable.   And whoever was in charge of the camera was pretty good at maintaining the visual interest – switching between head-on shots of musicians doing their thing and a roving eye that located the music in a wider environment.   

Another excellent demonstration of how to make folk music accessible on TV was a documentary made a few years ago, featuring Greg Stephens and The Boat Band. Greg is a regular contributor to Mudcat, and could give you the production details (or maybe even send you a video of it). And incidentally, Greg himself would also make a better-than-average presenter for a general folk show.

So, go for it Crystal! The massed Mudcatters will be with you all the way.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 08:00 AM

Thanks for all the great ideas/ info! This is much better than I hoped for (I was expecting a very small number of replies!). Currently I would like to look at folk music and dance in its current incarnation, how it is done at festivals and in clubs across the UK and by the big artists plus a little about the history of traditional music. I would want lots of humour, colour and noise to show people that it's not somthing dull which we should be ashamed of but a celebration of our cultures.
I hadn't thought about Stephen Fry as a presenter but he would definatly be the type to put the programe (is that really the American spelling?) across.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: mooman
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 08:26 AM

Dear Crystal,

I'd also be interested in watching such a programme although I mainly play blues these days.

The Transatlantic Sessions" was awesome and I wish I had a copy. That was a rather good idea as real understanding seemed to develop between the singeers and musicians during their stay.

If Stephen Fry is sympathetic to folk music he would be an excellent and witty host. Many people have the knowledge but you also need to be able to present in an interesting way.

I'd secong talking to Kate who posted above if you get the chance. She has television experience, is enthusiastic and is a fine singer as well. She could well be able to make some good input.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Flash Company
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 08:50 AM

This sounds a great idea, but, knowing the BBC, I suspect that if the programme(s) is/are made they will be put out at the most inaccessable time imaginable, and the only people who will watch will be the enthusiasts like us who are already converts to the cause.
They did this with Ken Burns' Jazz series, which was by no means perfect, but should have been seen by a much wider audience than I suspect it got! I finished up buying the videos so I could watch at a time of my own choosing!
What happens next is that, after poor viewing figures are produced for a first series, subsequent plans are cancelled due to evidence of 'lack of demand'
OK, so I'm an old cynic!

FC

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 08:53 AM

How about Jimmy Nail? He has presence and cred (from his acting), yet he is also (as the majority don't know) an excellent musician and songwriter.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 09:14 AM

Derek Brimstone - the only artiste raconteur whose repertoire takes in everything from the Copper family to Randy Newman. voted best instrumentalist at cambrige Folk Festival. has interesting stories about everybody from Fred Jordan to to the Rev Gary Davis and he's gigged with them all. See Ralph McTell's webpage for Derek's role in the popularising the song Streets of London.

Well he gets my vote.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 09:27 AM

Crystal, you mention current folk scene, clubs and festivals. It would seem to me that there is probably more "folk" music happening in pub sessions currently. Here is a scene where musicians turn up (and non musiucians) for a chance to play with others and generally have a good evening interacting with and listening to others. They are not putting on a performance and as a result things are a bit more relaxed, "performers" take more chances and there is very often great music. The pros aren't the be all and end all in this music. Much excellent music and musicianship comes from people who play for enjoyment than for monetary reward. I might go so far as to suggest a title stolen from a bumpe sticker I saw recently "Real Musicians Have Day Jobs"
If you stick with clubs and festivals you will be re-hashing the same few people that already get recogniton on the few shows that do turn up on the box.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 09:43 AM

Hi again Crystal...

Can sometimes be very difficult to separate traditional song and dance from the customs of the calendar, with which quite a lot of the music is associted - Maying. Wassailing, Mumming etc. In that respect, do have a look at any information you can on the Lion's Part Theatre company, who do a lot of seasonal processional stuff, incorporating traditional music - very accessible and exciting.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Chris Green
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 11:58 AM

Anyone familiar with the New Electric Muse compilations? It strikes me that they would be a pretty good template for how a programme on the tradition might work - starting with the Copper Family and like bods and bringing it right up to the present day, showing how the tradition has changed with the likes of Shooglenifty, Oysterband, Eliza Carthy etc. That should explode the myth the folk music is static and constantly looking backwards!

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: pavane
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 12:45 PM

The danger is that we will end up with the same limited selection of 'names' that we get on Mike Hardings show, rather than including some of the many really talented amateurs (and semi-professionals) who inhabit the clubs and sessions.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: pavane
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 12:47 PM

Hey, while we are at it, how about a Folk Idol?

(Ouch - maybe not)

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Chris Green
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 12:56 PM

You're right and I agree completely with the Mike Harding comment. However, I wasn't so much suggesting that it should be a series of hagiographies of well-known 'folkstars', more that it would be hard to make any sort of programme about folk music without looking at the work of the people who've changed the way it's played and sung over the last 40-50 years. I was thinking of it as more of a 'history of..' programme that would finish with a 'so where next?' which would be where the current scene would come in and you could show the vast diversity it has today.

Incidentally, off on a tangent, why hasn't anyone pitched the idea of 'Folk Idol' to the BBC? With the amount of lovable eccentrics the folk scene attracts it'd be the most compulsive viewing ever!

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Bert
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 02:53 PM

Depends where it is. In the UK, I would have Bill Sables and Billy Connolly.

In the US perhaps Seamus Kennedy and Art Thieme, or maybe Dick Greenhaus and Kendal.

The ratings would be fairly low but would pick up if it was a series.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 07:35 PM

someone asks which tradition, and that is such a wise question. so much factionalism has bedevilled our music.

It would hard to pick someone who has the respect of everybody. After all who is Stephen Fry going to know apart from the semi celeb list who are already making folk radio an instant turn off.

Christy Moore might be a good choice if his health were up to it. Maybe Noel Murphy, if he could lured away from his Cornish retreat. The Irish music has managed to remain populist, while so much of the English stuff seems to have its nose in the air - averted from the plebby tastes of theEnglish working class.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Blowzabella
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 07:44 PM

How about Daniel O'Donnell? (only joking!)

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Blowzabella
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 07:49 PM

The thing is that the presenter doesn't actually need to know a great deal about folk music at all - that is the point. He/she needs to be the intermediary between the viewer and the subject - asking the questions on behalf of the public.

When Time Team first started, who would have dreamed that it would have gone on for the ten years or more it has done. Tony Robinson was 'Baldrick' to most of the viewing public, but he asked simple, often obvious questions, in a way that made the subject interesting, accessible and exciting. Now I'm not suggesting Tony for this show but someone who could do the same job.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: fi_in_nz
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 08:01 PM

One of the most pertinent questions I've seen on this thread is the "one off or series?" That combined with "Which tradition?" make for interesting debate.

There are so many things you could cover and it would be wonderful to cover as much as possible without making a hash of it - to this end it would be marvellous to get a series together since even a 2 hr one off couldn't possibly do the folk genre justice (certainly if you're planning on covering music, song and dance). If you haven't seen Ken Burns' Jazz series, I suggest you give it a watch since it gave a pretty good overview of the Jazz genre. Of course with folk, you have many centuries to cover, not a mere 100 years. Ken Burns uses an unseen narrator and this works well, I'm not sure that the presenter needs to be seen, and any celebrities who are associated with folk music, tend to only represent a particular bit - e.g. Billy Connolly or any particular musician. You might find a fabulous presenter at one of the summer folk festivals or in a club but I tend to think the story of folk music will tell itself without an individual taking away from it.

So what topics are you thinking of covering?
Morris
Pagan origins of ritual
Story telling
Song collectors
Folk Revival
Folk becomes pop
Folk music and the industrial revolution
Folk instruments
Festivals
Folk celebrities
History
Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Cornish, English, Bluegrass, Romany????? etc. etc.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I can't think where you'd begin - or end for that matter. But taking a historical perspective could provide and interest for those interested in history as well as music. Whatever you do, Good Luck with it, you will have lots of Mudcat watchers - and could you send me a video to screen in the Auckland (NZ) folk club. ;-)

Cheers F

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 03:15 AM

sounds to me like you might be the man (woman) fi!

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: mooman
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 04:56 AM

I've changed my vote to Sir jOhn from Hull(9) MBE.

He has the intelligence, charisma and street cred, he's fed up working at the curry ship, and may be interested if he has nowt else to do.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: pavane
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 05:18 AM

Folk Idol - BBC will probably say Folk Off!

But I am sure that many club singers are far better than the Pop Idol contestants.

Who knows - we could find a new Sandy Denny out there.

(One of my all-time greats - I am sure her Tam Lin is the finest folk-rock track ever)

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 05:17 AM

Folk Idol is my next project!!

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 06:09 AM

Thank heavens for dick greenhaus. "Which tradition" indeed! If you do "UK" you're going to end up doing nothing particularly well. And a lot of the above seems to be talking about the folk revival stuff, which I personally wouldn't bother watching for a lot of reasons.

sian

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 02:24 PM

A folk/ Traditional music program!! To let a wider audence into the seceret? If the folk/Traditional world is worth a wider audence then surely a practising musician should be able to present the show. Or mabe Nadia from Big Brother would pull in a biger audence. My nomination for presenter.....Sid Kipper.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 05:08 AM

You can put Mrs Pavane down as a contestant if you run Folk Idol.
(And probably half of (UK) Mudcatters)

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 06:33 AM

yeh why bother with folk revival stuff when theres completely unrevived dead traditions and cultures we can all feast our middle class intellects on.

In fact why bother with someone speaking a living language - search for a fluent speaker of latin who will make it toally exclusive.

this is the factionalism of which I speak. which is okay I suppose, but it means English people have been totally disenfranchised and alienated and generally duped out of their right to have a folk culture as a means of expression.

get in a taxi in dublin or madrid and the taxi driver is playing something identifiable as the national voice.

Compare and contrast. too many pretty plough boys, gallant sail-i-ors, shepherd lasses, and factory maids and dancers of slip jigs are over represented in our folk clubs and folk radio.

Artist with something to say about our society don't get much of a look in.

a folk culture which alienates 98% of the population is a nonsense and I guess its why the television series will remain in the planning stages

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 08:16 AM

So we no longer have anyone ploughing, sailing, keeping sheep, or working in factories?

Must all be on the dole then.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: mooman
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 08:54 AM

I know a 'Catter who "keeps" sheep...! (;>)

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 04:09 PM

>a folk culture which alienates 98% of the population is a nonsense and I guess its why the television series will remain in the planning stages<

Charming!
You'd think people would be pleased to see young people trying to bring their culture to a wider audiance.
Ah well you can't please everyone.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Chris Green
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 08:29 AM

Er... I still think it's a good idea! And to be perfectly honest anything that gets trad English music on TV in whatever guise gets my vote even if it's fronted by Timmy Mallett! Well, actually maybe I wouldn't go quite that far...

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: GUEST,SHANNON LEDFORD
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 04:59 AM

YES, WE WOULD WATCH IT! LOVE TO! AND BESIDES ME, I THINK FAITH HILL AND TIM MCGRAW SHOULD HOST. OH, I LOVE GRETCHEN WILSON AND TOBY KEITH TOO!!!! :)

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: HuwG
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 07:21 AM

A recent BBc documentary on the late Johnny Cash was narrated by actor Neil Pearson, best known for portraying various screen rogues (philandering news presenters, slightly bent policemen etc.)

The script and narration was faultless, but to the best of my knowledge, Pearson is not otherwise known as a musician or musicologist.

Another recent documentary on Richard Thompson was narrated by John Peel. He is certainly better known in the music scene (in the UK anyway.)

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 03:26 AM

I'll do it, if I'm not doing nowt, [and if i get free curry].

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 02:28 AM

Yes of course people do keep sheep, one or two are working in mines and no doubt there busy blacksmiths, and pickers of oakum and folks whose lives can be slotted into and explained away by the limited pastoral colours on the palette of modern folk song - with its modal progressions, and Laura Ashley aquatints. However I doubt if even these people can express their lives cogently through a miasma of sentimentality and fake olde worldiness.

When I was a kid in the fifties I knew my Grandparents brothers and their sister - some of whom were in their nineties then. that means they were born in 1850's. I can confidently tell you that none of them sang in the lugubrious tones of the folk revival. and several of them were competent performers of folk, street and music hall songs and clog dancers. they did not sing with with drone either in their voice or require one in their accompaniment.

So when if ever does the modern world and the people in it get a folksong for them.

I'm sorry if what I say sounds bitter and twisted. but where is the clamour for a folk music tv programme. could it be that the folk enthusiasts have convinced the vast majority of people (98% even)that theres nothing in folk music for them.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: pavane
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 07:29 AM

'Fake olde worldliness????'

We are talking about the genuine article, honed over 500 years, not the fake stuff like American words to a perfectly good Morris tune (as in English Country garden).

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: VIN
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:23 AM

We seem obsessed in England with slagging off our tradition. I mean, it shows what a sad nation we are when we have to ask if the mass media condescends to feature some 'folk' music and would people listen. Do European countries or Balkan countries or even Scotland/Ireland/Wales have this same attitude, i suspect they don't or at least not on the scale we have here.

It seems that other countries seem to know instinctively what classes as their tradition and culture (and not just in music) but here we have to have long, catty, back-stabbing, and at times down-right ignorant debates on definitions, what is/is'nt traditional, who shoule sing/present it etc etc. This of course makes for some interesting discussions/threads which in which i have taken part but what the hell is wrong with us??

I wonder if its because England is still riddled with class difference and prejudice where ordinary (working class) people's 'culture/traditions' is and has been, throughout history, suppressed as much as possible by the media? Thus huge chunks of the population are brainwashed from birth into believing our 'folk' music tradition (which we don't even have a collective national definition of)is relegated to a kind of underground minority so-called 'finger-in-your-ear' movement. Even the likes of Kate Rusby are only give a kind of cursory attention by some parts of the media.

Sorry i seem to have gone off on one agin. Must be me age.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 11:10 AM

It's be best with someone from outside the folk world, but with some connections, and with an ability to show infectuous enthusiasm and open-minded curiosity. I think Rolf Harris would be the right one. He'd get people who have no interest in folk music watching, and lure them into getting interested.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: VIN
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 11:27 AM

I can just see it now.....'cin ya tell wot it is yet?'

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 02:55 PM

500 years old - thats okay then - I thought it was just my family where nobody sang like that in the living memory of its oldest members....

of course you're right I'm ignorant and ill informed. But isn't that my point, all these other countries , the ordinary people seem to recognise the authentic tone of their folk music and relate to it effortlessly almost

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: Naemanson
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 12:49 AM

Actually to make it on TV it would have to be presented by a NAME. So you would have to pull in performers who are known by your average Joe and Jane. That means people like Mary Chapin Carpenter, Bonnie Rait, Elvis Costello, Shawn Colvin, Bruce Springsteen, Stephen Stills, Steve Martin, Dolly Parton, the Dixie Chicks, Emmylou Harris, etc. With name recognition comes validation in the eyes of John Q. Public.

As far as I know these people have all been associated with folk music at one time or another. It would be interesting to see if they would be interested in trying again.

Note: Dolly Parton refers to her album "Little Sparrow" as roots music because the term "folk music" is seen as the kiss of death in the music industry. I heard that in an interview with her.

Subject: RE: semi-hypothetical question (about trad music on TV
From: VIN
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 04:33 AM

'Roots music'.....now there's a growth industry if ever there was one: i never twigged to that: the tradition could branch out in all sorts of fields with that title..........