Lyr Req: The Quaker's Courtship

Subject: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:54 AM

Hello Friends... anyone have the words to this????????
Cheers
Larry

Subject: Lyr Add: COURTING (Madam I Have Come A-Courting)
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:07 PM

is This it?

http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/maxhunter/1429/
Courting Song - @ Max Hunter site

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Courting Song
Cat. #1429 (MFH #473) - As sung by Otis Williams, Wesley, Arkansas. (Fall), 1967.
VERSE 1
Madam, I have come a courting
An' some favors, for to gain
If you'll entertain me very kindly
I shall, will come again, again
I shall, will come again, again
Yes, I know you'll come a courting
An' some favors for t' gain
I'll entertain you very kindly
If you'll never come again
If you'll never come again

VERSE 2
Madam, I have a very fine field
Full forty acres wide
And it shall be at your command
If you will be my bride, bride
If you will be my bride
O, yes, I know your very fine field
With clover at th foot
If you were mine I'd turn you in
I'm sure a hog would root, root
I'm sure a hog would root

VERSE 3
Madam, I've come to marry you
An' settle in your town
I will to you my house an' 'state
T'is worth ten thousand pounds, pounds
T'is worth ten thousand pounds
You'll will me your house an' 'state
As you design to do
I'd have enough of everything
An' what'd I want to you, you
An' what'd I want of you

VERSE 4
Madam, you are a scornful date
An' some what hard t' please
When you grow old an' chilled with cold
I hope that you will freeze
I hope that you will freeze
When I grow old an' chilled with cold
That you that'll keep me warm
Therefore, I think it my very best plan
T' keep myself from harm, harm
T' keep myself from harm

VERSE 5
You can keep your rosy cheeks
An' I will keep my land
An' you can keep your black cunning eyes
To roll them round an' round
To roll them around

VARIANTS:
"0360 O Miss, I Have a Very Fine Farm"

OTHER COLLECTIONS:
Randolph: III-361 The Courtin' Cage
Brown: III-10 The Courtin' Cage

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Lyrics copy-pasted from the link cited above.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: MADAM, I HAVE COME A-COURTING
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:15 PM

aha! hope this link works

an old quaker dialogue

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California Gold: Northern California Folk Music from the Thirties
Robertson, Sidney [md] collector
Graham, George Vinton [md] singer
Asmussen, Ella [md] transcriber of text
Recorded at San Jose, California
December 1938
UC-WPA Disk No. 7E-A3

Madam, I Have Come A-courting
Madam, I have come a-courting, hum-a-day, hum-a-day,
Madam, I have come a-courting, hum-a-day, hum-a-day.
Well, if that be your desire,
You can sit and court the fire.
Fal-tum-a-link-tum-a-too-ry-day. **
Madam, I have lands and money, hum-a-day, hum-a-day,
Madam, I have lands and money, hum-a-day, hum-a-day.
What do I care for your lands and money?
I've got a lad that calls me honey.
Fal-tum-a-link-tum-a-too-ry-day. **
Madam, I have got rings and money, hum-a-day, hum-a-day,
Madam, I have got rings and money, hum-a-day, hum-a-day.
What do I care for your rings and money?
I've got a lad that calls me honey.
Fal-tum-a-link-tum-a-too-ry-day. *
Madam, I'll go hone to mother; hum-a-day, hum-a-day,
Madam, I'll go home to mother, hum-a-day, hum-a-day.
What do I care for you or your mother?
She's a greenhorn, you're another.
Fal-tum-a-link-tum-a-too-ry-day. **

* This stanza has been taken from Mr. Graham's MS. copy.

** The last verse in every stanza has been taken from Mr. Graham's
MS. copy.
GEORGE VINTON GRAHAM
Old Time Musician and Song Poem Writer
R. 2. Box 319 J
SAN JOSE, CALIF.

An Old Quaker Dialogue
Madam, I have come a-courting-Hum-a -day, Hum-a-day
Madam, I have come a-courting-Hum-a-day, Hum-a-day
Well, if that be your desire, you can sit and court the fire.
Fal-tum-a-link-tum-a-too-ry-day
***************************
Madam, I have houses and lands Hum-a-day, Hum-a-day
" " " " " " " " " " " "
What do I care for your houses and lands?
All I want is a handsome man
Ful-tum-a- link-tum-a-too-ry-day.
***************************
Madam,I have got rings and money Hum-a-day, Hum-a-day.
" " " " " " " " " " " " "
What do I care for your rings and money?
I've got a lad that calls me honey
Fal-tum-a-link-tum,a-too-ry-day
******************************
Madam,I'll go home to mother Hum-a-day, Hum-a-day
" " " " " " " " " " " "
What do I care for you or your mother?
She's a greenhorn, you're a-nother,
Fal-tum-a-link-tum-a-too-ry-day.
************************************

This song was compiled by George Vinton Graham for the University
of California and sung on the phono-graph record Dec 8th, 1938.

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Lyrics copy-pasted from the link cited above.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:16 PM

Hi, Larry - what do you know about the song? With just a title, it's hard to know if we are all talking about the same song. When you post a lyrics request, it's best to tell all you know.
If we're talking about the same song, I think it's the one the Traditional Ballad Index calls "The Quaker's Courtship." Here's the Ballad Index entry:

Quaker's Courtship, The

DESCRIPTION: The Quaker comes to court the girl. He offers her a ring and money; she tells him she wants a man to call her honey. He tells her she is pretty; she calls him a flatterer. He gives up; she tells him to "Find a Quaker girl to marry"
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1883 ("Games and Songs of American Children")
KEYWORDS: courting discrimination ring
FOUND IN: US(MW,NE,So) Canada(Mar,Ont)
REFERENCES (12 citations):
Belden, p. 265, "The Quaker's Wooing" (1 text, lacking any reference to a Quaker but probably this)
Randolph 362, "The Courting Song" (4 texts, 2 tunes, though Randolph's "A" text is rather tenuously related to the others); 363, "I'm Going Away to Texas" (3 texts, 1 tune, the "C" text appearing to belong here; "A" is I'm Going Away to Texas" and "C" is perhaps "The Quaker's Courtship" ))
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 295-297, "The Courting Song" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 362C)
BrownIII 4, "Madam Mozelle, I've Come Courting" (1 fragment, too short to identify with certainty but perhaps this song); 8, "The Quaker's Wooing" (1 text, also short)
Linscott, pp. 276-278, "The Quaker's Wooing" (1 short text, 1 tune)
Fowke/Johnston, pp. 154-155, "The Quaker's Courtship" (1 text, 1 tune)
FSCatskills 36, "A Sport Song" (1 text, 1 tune)
Gardner/Chickering 176, "The Quaker Song" (3 texts, 2 tunes)
Creighton/Senior, pp. 199-200, "Quaker's Courtship" (1 fragment, 1 tune, which might be either this or "Wheel of Fortune")
Lomax-FSNA 12, "The Quaker's Courtship" (1 text, 1 tune)
Botkin-NEFolklr, p. 587, "Quaker's Courtship" (1 text, 1 tune)
LPound-ABS, 108, pp. 223-224, "The Quaker's Courtship" (1 text)
Roud #716
RECORDINGS:
Buell Kazee, [Madam, I Have Come A-Courting] (on Kazee01)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Keys of Canterbury"
cf. "No, John, No"
cf. "Wheel of Fortune (Dublin City, Spanish Lady)"
Notes: The "courting songs" listed in the cross-references have cross-fertilized heavily; one should examine texts carefully to see where a particular variant belongs.
One form of this in particular, "Madam, I Have Come A-Courting," has worn down so much that it some versions almost no elements left to allow identification. An example is Buell Kazee's version:
Madam, I have come a-courting, Oh dear, oh dear me. Come a-courting, not a-sporting....
Well if that is your desire, Fa da link dum, fa da day, You can sit and court the fire....
I've a ring worth many a shilling... You can wear it if you're willing....
I'll not have your ring or money... Want me a man to call me honey....
Intermediate texts such as Belden's, though, imply that such items probably belong here. - RBW
File: R362

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The Ballad Index Copyright 2004 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.

Subject: Lyr Add: QUAKER COURTSHIP
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:18 PM

From William Wells Newell, Games and Songs of American Children (1884; Clearfield reprint, 1992, p. 95, with tune):

    QUAKER COURTSHIP

"Madam, I am come a-courting--
    Hum, hum, heigho hum!
'Tis for pleasure, not for sporting--
    Hum, hum, heigho hum!"

"Sir, it suits me to retire,
    Teedle link tum, teedle tum a tee;
You may sit and court the fire,
    Teedle link tum, teedle tum a tee."

"Madam, here's a ring worth forty shilling,
Thou may'st have it if thou art willing."

"What care I for rings or money?
I'll have a man who will call me honey."

"Madam, thou art tall and slender;
Madam, I know thy heart is tender."

"Sir, I see you are a flatterer,
And I never loved a Quaker."

"Must I give up my religion?
Must I be a Presbyterian?"

"Cheer up, cheer up, loving brother,
If you can't catch one fish, catch another."

                      Hartford, Conn.

For other references, see The Traditional Ballad Index: Quaker's Courtship, The.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:26 PM

Thanks joe - I wasn't being lazy - I just didn't want to copy the lyrics in until Larry had said whether or not they were what he was looking for -

Subject: ADD Version: The Courting Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:40 PM

Oh, well, MMario, Larry's supposed to know better by now. I suspected that's why you didn't post the lyrics. If this isn't the song he's looking for, Larry can start another thread and do it properly. But that's beside the point, because this is a fascinating song that has been mentioned before, but not covered. Randolph has four versions in Ozark Folksongs and every one of them is a gem. Here's version 362A:

The Courting Song
(sung by Miss Fanny Mulhollan, Pineville, Missouri; Dec. 4, 1923)

Madam, I have come a-courtin', hi-ho, hi-hum,
Wilt thou hear what I've to tell thee? Hi-ho, hi-hum.

CHORUS
Ting a ling ling ling ling ling ling
Ting a ling ling ling ling ling
Ting a ling ling ling ling ling ling
Ting a ling ling ling ling ling

I don't believe one word you've spoken, hi-ho, hi-hum,
Indeed your heart is easy broken, hi-ho, hi-hum.

Madam, I have no doubt of it, hi-ho, hi-hum.
Good fish in the sea as ever come out of it, hi-ho, hi-hum.

Well, since this is to be my life, hi-ho, hi-hum,
I have decided to be your wife, hi-ho, hi-hum.

Subject: ADD Version: The Courting Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:44 PM

They get even better:

Ozark Folksongs 362B
Contributed by Mrs. Rosie Lattin, Pineville, Mo., Sept. 14, 1932

Where are you goin', sober Quaker?
Ti dum a toody dum,
Where are you goin', sober Quaker?
Ti dum a toody dum.

I'm goin' to court a lovely maiden,
Oh hi oh ho hum,
Maybe you can tell me how to get her,
Oh hi oh ho hum.

Trim your coat an' brush up your beaver,
Ti dum a toody dum,
An' swear you'll die before you'll leave her,
Ti dum a toody dum.

I've got a kitchen full of servants,
Oh hi oh ho hum,
Maybe you can tell me how to rule 'em,
Oh hi oh ho hum.

I wouldn't be the mistress of 'em,
Ti dum a toody dum,
I wouldn't be the scolder of 'em,
Ti dum a toody dum.

I've got a ring that cost a lot of money,
Oh hi oh ho hum,
An' you can wear it when you git ready,
Oh hi oh ho hum.

I don't want your ring nor money,
Ti dum a toody dum,
I want a beau that calls me honey,
Ti dum a toody dum.

Subject: ADD Version: The Courting Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:53 PM

I'm not done yet.

Ozark Folksongs #362C

Sung by Mrs. H. A. Mullenix, Farmington, Ark., Dec. 20, 1941. Apparently about fifty-five years old, Mrs. Mullenix says she learned this song from her father when she wasa small child.

Madam, I have come a-courting,
Oh dear, mercy me,
Not for pleasure, not for sporting,
Oh dear, mercy me.

You can sit and court the fire,
Ti di dinktum ti di day,
I will go at my desire,
Ti di dinktum ti di day.

Madam, thou art tall and slender,
Oh dear, mercy me,
And I know thy heart art tender,
Oh dear, mercy me.

You are nothing but a flatterer,
Ti di dinktum ti di day,
And besides you are a Quaker,
Ti di dinktum ti di day.

Here's a ring cost forty shilling,
Oh dear, mercy me,
Thou canst wear it if thou art willing,
Oh dear, mercy me.

What care I for ring or money?
Ti di dinktum ti di day,
I want a man that will call me honey,
Ti di dinktum ti di day.

Madam, I have got to leave thee,
Oh dear, mercy me,
And I know thy heart will grieve thee,
Oh dear, mercy me.

Run right home and tell your mammy,
Ti di dinktum ti di day,
That you could not get me handy,
Ti di dinktum ti di day.

Subject: ADD Version: The Quaker's Courtship
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:58 PM

This one is my favorite of the four.

Ozark Folksongs #362D

Manuscript copy "The Quaker's Courtship" from Mrs. Maggie Morgan, Springdale, Arkansas; Feb. 21, 1942.

The Quaker's Courtship

Madam, I have come a-courting,
Hi-o, hi-o, hum,
Come for business, not for sporting,
Hi-o, hi-o, hum.

You may set and court the fire,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di,
If it be your desire,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di.

Madam, I have gold and silver,
Hi-o, hi-o, hum,
You may use it at your pleasure,
Hi-o, hi-o, hum.

I don't want none of your money,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di,
I want some one to call me honey,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di.

Madam, thou art tall and slender,
Hi-o, hi-o, hum,
I know your heart is large and tender,
Hi-o, hi-o, hum.

I don't want none of your blarney,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di,
I could never marry a Quaker,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di.

Must I give up my religion?
Hi-o, hi-o, hum,
Must I marry a Presbyterian?
Hi-o, hi-o, hum.

Cheer up, cheer up, lively fellow,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di,
If I can't catch one fish I can another,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di.

Must I go away heart-broken,
Hi-o, hi-o, hum,
Must I leave without one token?
Hi-o, hi-o, hum.

Run right home and tell your daddy,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di,
That you could not get me ready,
Hi dum a ding dum ding dum di.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:42 PM

Hot Damn, Friends:
Yer all great, thanks to all.
Cheers
and in the light
Larry

Subject: Lyr Add: THE QUAKER'S WOOING
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:07 PM

Just guessing, but with all the references to shillings, etc., the song could go back to Colonial times. Although attributed to Quakers, it seems widespread outside their culture.
Here is one from Ohio.

THE QUAKER'S WOOING

I had a true love, but she left me;-
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh!
I now am broken hearted;-
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh!
Well, if she's gone I wouldn't mind her,
Fol-de-rol-de-hey-ding-di-do,-
You'll soon find one that'll prove much kinder,
Fol-de-rol-de-hey-ding-day.

I've a house and forty servants,
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh!
And thee may be mistress of them,
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh!
I'll not do your scolding for you,
Fol-de-rol-de-hey-ding-di-do,-
'Deed I feel myself above you,
Fol-de-rol-de-hey-ding-day.

I've a ring worth twenty shillings,
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh!
And thee may wear it if thee's willing,
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh!
What care I for rings or money,
Fol-de-rol-de-hey-ding-di-do,
I'm for the man who calls me honey,
Fol-de-rol-de-hey-ding-day.

Miss Abbott, learned from her mother. With music, pp. 293-294, # 131, Mary O. Eddy, 1939, Ballads and Songs from Ohio, J. J. Augustin Pub. NY.

The last verse may be a floater, since it is found in other songs. In a fragment in American Memory, it is given as:
I care not for your rings nor money
Fal fal ke-die-de-o
I want someone to call me honey
Kiddy ka-dink, ka-die-de-o.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/todd:@field(DOCID+st070)

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Click to play

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:21 PM

Holy Moly, Joe!! That post of yours was one I learned in 1960 and haven't much thought of if ever since then!!

I learned it from Peter Hall, my school pal and banjo player, whose older brother Jonathon taught me my first Travis pick. Who, in turn, it turns out, is a friend of ole Guy Wolff, no less!

Small world. Thanks for reminding me of "Hi ho, hi ho hum!"


A

Subject: Lyr Add: THE QUAKER SONG (from Baring-Gould)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:27 PM

The Quaker Song
XXIII. Baring-Gould

'O dear me! I've lost my lover!
Hum-hum-hum-hum-hum!
How shall I his loss recover?
Hum-hum-hum-hum-hum!
'Seek him dearest, thou shalt find him,
Fa-la-la-la-la-li-gee-wo.
Seek him when the spirit moves you,
Fa-la-la-la-la-li-gee-wo.

'O but how he does disdain me!
Hum-hum-hum, etc.
His cruel looks have almost slain me!
Mum-hum-hum, etc.
As for looks they need not matter,
Fa-la-la,' etc.
You must learn to fawn and flatter,
Fa-la-la,' etc.

'But that dreadful sin of lying,
Hum-hum-hum, etc.
A guilty conscience when I'm dying,
Hum-hum-hum, etc.
'Love and concience ne'er went courting,
Fa-la-la, etc.
Youth and death is ill consorting,
Fa-la-la, etc.

p, 35, Edit. S. Baring-Gould: "A Book of Nursery Songs and Rhymes," 1895, Methuen and Co. London. "Collected from a Devonshire nurse."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:31 PM

The fellow come a-courting and the girl's complaints seem inextricably linked in these "Quaker" songs.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:52 PM

Yes, I think almost all of these are he-she "answer songs."
I'll see if I can get tunes transcribed for at least some of the versions.
Q, "Quaker's Courtship" is in the Fifth Grades textbook of the This Is Music series. Can you e-mail me a scan so I can see the tune they have? Thanks.
-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: Lyr Add: THE SOBER QUAKER
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 04:56 PM

The Sober Quaker

"Where art thou going, sober Quaker
Ti-um-ah-tit-ti-tum;
Where art thou going, sober Quaker,
Ti-um-ah-tit-ti-tum?"
"I'm going to see a comely creature,-
Oh, hi-ho-hum,-
Thy very self in form and feature,
Oh, hi- ho-hum."

"I bought a ring that cost a shilling,
Ti-um-ah-tit-ti-tum,
Which thou shalt wear if thou are willing,
Ti-um-ah-tit-ti-tum."
"Take your ring and go to the devil,
Oh, hi-ho-hum,
Take your ring and go to the devil,
Oh, hi-ho-hum."

Charles B. Golbreath, Ohio. #132, p. 294-295, with music, in Mary O. Eddy, 1939, Ballads and Songs from Ohio, J. J. Augustin pub., NY.
Fragments, but could be usable in putting together a complete song.

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Click to play

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(this one should probably be played a little slower - Joe Offer)

Subject: Ly. Add: THE QUAKER'S COURTSHIP
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:30 PM

THE QUAKER'S COURTSHIP
(coll. Helen Creighton, Nova Scotia)

Boys (slowly)
Madam, I have come a-courting-,
Oh, dear me!
Not for pleasure, not for sporting-,
Oh, dear me!
Girls (faster)
You may sit and court the fire-,
Toe id-dle ink-tum, Tie id-dle aye!
To say goodnight is my desire-,
Toe id-dle ink-tum, Tie id-dle aye!

Boys
I've a ring cost twenty shillings-,
Oh, dear me!
You may wear it if you're willing-,
Oh, dear me!
Girls
I don't want your ring or money,
Toe id-dle ink-tum, Tie id-dle aye!
I want a man who'll call me honey,
Toe id-dle ink-tum, Tie id-dle aye!

Boys
I'll go home and tell my daddy,
Oh, dear me!
That you're not disposed to marry.
Oh dear me!

Girls
You go home and tell your daddy,
Toe iddle inktum, Tie iddle aye!
You'll find a Quaker girl to marry,
Toe iddle inktum, Tie iddle aye!

"Settlers who came from England continued to sing the old English songs. Some of these songs changed in character as they were sung through the years." Page 63, with music, chords given in both treble (C) and bass (F) clef. Chord markings are given.
Teachers' Manual, "This Is Music 5," 1962, William R. Sur et al., Allyn and Bacon, Inc., Boston.

Discussion: "An American land company, known as the Philadelphia Company, interested people of English and Scotch provinces in coming to America in 1773. These highlanders settled in the territory which earlier French settlers had called Acadie. The name was changed to New Scotland or Nova Scotia. When the colonists in the United States were fighting for independence, many loyalists emigrated to Nova Scotia.
"This song, which was collected in that region, may have been brought by these emigrants from the British Isles, or it may have originated on these shores. The song refers to Quakers, who are a Christian sect founded in England and who call themselves the "Society of Friends." One of their famous leaders was William Penn, founder of the Pennsylvania Colony."

Study of Meter- "The boy sings his part in 3/4 meter, and the girl answers back in 2/4 meter."

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Click to play

Subject: ADD: The Quaker's Courtship
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 12:14 AM

I'm glad you posted the version from This Is Music 5, Q. The school textbook says the song was collected by Creighton in Nova Scotia. Now, here's the complete text that Creighton collected. I suppose it is a little strong for fifth-graders, but the censorship does make me uneasy. Note that the "tee diddle" is different - maybe the school version is from a different Creighton source (but I doubt it).
-Joe Offer-

The Quaker's Courtship

1. "MADAME, I have come a-courting, Oh dear,
Not for pleasure, not for sporting, Oh dear."
"You may sit and court the fire,
Tee diddle ding dum ding dum dey,
To go to bed is my desire,
Tee diddle ding durn ding dum dey."

2. "I've a ring and forty shillings, Oh dear,
You may have them if you're willing, Oh dear."
"I don't want your ring and money,
Tee diddle ding dum ding dum dey,
I want a young man to call me honey
Tee diddle ding dum ding dum dey."

3. "Madame, you are young and tender,
Oh dear, And your waist is small and slender, Oh dear."
"But you know the way to flatter,
Tee diddle ding dum ding dum dey,
But I do despise a Quaker,
Tee diddle ding dum ding dum dey."

4. "I'll go home and tell my daddy, Oh dear,
That you're not disposed to marry, Oh dear."
"You go home and tell your daddy,
Tee diddle ding dum ding dum dey,
Find a Quaker girl to marry,
Tee diddle ding dum ding dum dey."

Source: Helen Creighton, Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia
Sung by Mr. Ben Hennebery, Devil's Island.

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Click to play

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Now that I've transcribed the tune, I can see that this is quite a different song from that in the This Is Music textbook.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 08:04 PM

as someone who had a quaker updragging, I'm really pleased nobody sang me these songs throughout my childhood. it makes me realise at least I was spared some things.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 08:10 PM

Variation 'No John No' is very similar and the tune fits a lot of the lyrics posted .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Greyeyes
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 05:37 AM

This seems to be related to an Irish variation the Clancy Brothers sang called "Galway City" (in the DT). It doesn't mention Quakers, but has been discussed in this thread .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 06:25 PM

This is great!

About 12 years ago I was chatting to my friend Phyllis about "The Quaker's Wooing" in Sandburg's American Songbag. We had both noted the similarities between this and a Welsh song, "Cwyd dy Galon" (Lift up your Heart). The fact that I saw a likeness isn't important; Phyllis, on the other hand is one of maybe four real experts in Welsh musicology so she's worth listening too. Also, there was a heavy Welsh presence in Quaker society (seems to me that Penn was at least part Welsh) and also in Ohio where the song has been recorded.

Anyway, it goes:

O mae 'nghariad wedi 'ngada'l,
Ho ho ho, ho ho ho, ho!
Ni chaf eto fyth ei chystal,
Ho ho ho, ho ho ho, ho!
Cwyd dy galon, paid â hitio,
Ffol lol, ladi ei o,
Ti gei gariad newydd eto,
Ffol lol, ladi ei o.

There's actually a singable translation too:

O my love has gone for ever,
Ho ho ho, ho ho ho, ho!
Sore it was our bond to sever,
Ho ho ho, ho ho ho, ho!
Lift thy heart, for there's a morrow,
Fol, lol, la dee i o;
Let today relieve thy sorrow,
Fol, lol, la dee i o.

Literally it would be
O my love has left me (Ho, etc.)
I'll never have his like again, (Ho …)
Lift up thy heart, don't be bothered by it, (fol …)
You'll find a new love again. (fol …)

I think I've given up on ABC, but I have the tonic sol-fa here:

Doh F
| d :- : m | r:-:f| f:-:m|r:d:-|d.r:m:-|d:r:m|d:- :-| -:-||        
|d :- :r |m:- :s| d' :- :l |s : - :m |d: -:-|r:-|m :f :m |r: -:-}
|d :- :r |m:- :s| d' :- :l |s : - :m |d: -:-|r:-|m :f :r |d : -:- ||

(I gotta tell ya – I HATE typing solfa!)

The tune was included in a collection of hitherto unpublished folk songs which was sent to the Llangollen Eisteddfod in 1858. It was later published in the Welsh Folk Song Society Journal of 1909 where it was reported as being popular in Glamorganshire. One correspondent suggested that it was similar to some of the ox-driving songs sung in that area.

I'd love to know more. Thanks for all the contributions to date.

siân

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 06:27 PM

It's certainly hard to draw the link between this series of songs and Wheel of Fortune (Dublin City, Spanish Lady, Galway City). They all tell more-or-less the same story, and the line dividing them is very squiggly.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:03 PM

I'd be inclined to consider songs such as Galway City and No John to be unrelated to this one; except insofar as people who have bought a few similar articles of clothing from the same manufacturer are related to one another. Floating verses float, and what tends to define a genuine relationship is more complicated than some shared lines; or the same brand of shoes.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE QUAKER'S COURTSHIP
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 01:24 PM

From American Ballads and Songs by Louise Pound (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1922), page 223:


THE QUAKER'S COURTSHIP

"Madam, I have come a-courting, hi, ho, hum!
I'm for business, not for sporting, hi, ho hum!"

"That you go home is my desire, rol dol dil a day,
Unless you stay and court the fire, rol dol dil a day."

"I've a ring that's worth a shilling, hi ho hum.
Thou mayst wear it if thou'rt willing, hi ho hum!"

"O I don't want your ring or money, rol dol dil a day.
I want a man that'll call me honey, rol dol dil a day."

"I've a kitchen full of servants, hi ho hum!
Thou mayst be a mistress o'er them, hi ho hum."

"Indeed I'll not be scolded for you, rol dol dil a day.
Indeed I think myself above you, rol dol dil a day."

"I've a stable full of horses, hi ho hum.
Thou mayst ride them at my bidding, hi ho hum."

"Indeed I'll not be jockey for you, rol dol dil a day.
I think I'm better off without you, rol dol dil a day."

"Must I give up my religion? O dear me!
Must I join the Presbyterians? O dear me!"

"O you go home and tell your daddy, rol dol dil a day,
That you couldn't get me ready, rol dol dil a day!"

"O you go home and tell your mother, rol dol dil a day,
That you're a fool and lots of bother, rol dol dil a day."

"Must I leave without one token? O dear me!
Must I die with my heart broken? O dear me."

"Cheer up, cheer up, my loving brother, hi ho hum,
If you can't catch me just catch another, hi ho hum!"