Wensleydale failure, what happened?

Subject: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 01:01 AM

LAST JULY,went to small weekend folk gathering,centred in and around Hawes in magnificent Wensleydale, North Yorkshire. The focus of the event was the Green Dragon boozer just outside the village which has a concert room ( which had concerts) nice bar area for singarounds (which were sung around) and some good ale (which was supped).There were other things going on, such as coracle racing for the foolhardy and a busking competition for the masochists (or sadists!). Although not a perfect event, had a few niggles, but to my mind,it had some GREAT potential.THIS JULY, went again. TOTAL DISASTER!! The concert headliner was Bob Fox (a good lad) who appeared to be singing to about 30 people, most of whom were, I believe, support acts. The bar singarounds were non-existent, nothing going on elsewhere around the town and the whole event having the atmosphere of a disaster area! It would have been more fun spending the weekend with Vlad The Impaler! WHAT HAPPENED??? Are there any well-informed folkies who can cast light, or give inside information, on why this potentially great event appears to have gone down the pan after only two years?

Andy

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: Bernard
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 10:38 AM

Apathy, I'd guess...

I can't speak for Wensleydale (you sound really cheesed off!!), but I'm involved with a North Manchester folk club which is going the same way. We've had some really great 'Extravaganza' weekends which were reasonably well attended, but the most recent one was a disaster - most of the audience were support acts & 'hangers-on', which soounds much like your experience.

I'm also involved with another club in Cheshire which is really well supported - we had a festival (complete with marquee) a month or so ago, with around 170 in for Martin Simpson, and a similar crowd for Garva.

The odd thing is, of the two, the less popular one is well served by public transport, whereas the other is practically cut off!!

Nowt so queer as folk!!

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: GUEST,Sorry to hear this
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 11:10 AM

I considered going to this event because I know the spot and it is a fabulous location for a folk festival. I'm not a musician but do join in singarounds occasionally, although not much these days as I spend more time orgainising than participating.

Generally speaking I like to go to events to see performers rather than to participate myself.

I did consider going - got the full programme off the website etc. However, I'm afraid that the deciding factor for me was that most of the performers were, as you say, support acts, and I would only have seen Bob for half an hour in the afternoon (probably couldn't have been able to stay for the evening). I guess I decided that I didn't fancy the drive in the heat with a 14 year old dog and in those circs it wasn't worth the £8 day ticket. What would have swung it for me would have been if Johnny Collins had been on the same day (he was on on the Sunday and I couldn't go on the Sunday).

Perhaps a sort of 'critical mass' of 'known' performers has to be reached to make it worth the while going to concert-based festivals?
I understand the chicken and egg problem though - how do you pay for artists if people don't come to buy tickets - but if you don't have artists, how do you get people to come?

Hardraw is a stunning setting and, geographically, it has everything going for it to becoame the home of a superb event. Perhaps it is just early days. I wish it the very best luck - and hopefully I'll be able to go next year.

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 12:19 PM

£8 day ticket? Wow -- that's almost free! I'd happily pay that for half an hour of Bob Fox. I run a festival in Canada and the work put into attracting people to the event has to be done year after year after year. It's probably the hardest component. Let's hope the glitch in the Wensleydale festival is temporary, although poor attendance in only the second year might be indicative of year one not being as good as folks had expected.

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 03:16 PM

If year 1 was as good as Andy said could year 2 have been a case of "we don't need to advertise as everybody knows"? In this case "everybody" being the 30 people in the concert.

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: open mike
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 04:31 PM

too bad. i hope they will try again...
and try harder! sounds like great potential.
needs more "name" performers, methinks...
recognizeable names...perhaps they should consider
sponshorship by a commercial concern
pub? ale? coracle club? yorkshire pudding company?
Marmite factory!
to ensure financial success...
best of luck....
have you contacted the festival organizers with your
concerns? offered to help? referred them to knowledgeable
festival organizers who know how to successfully
pull together such an event....help make it happen!

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: fi_in_nz
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 04:37 PM

Sounds like a lack of publicity problem to me. Was the event advertised on Mudcat/at local folk clubs etc? Personally I can be quite happy at a festival with no big name acts so long as the participatory stuff is going off. If there are neither big names nor great sessions (or workshops) then it's going to be a bit of a dead loss. This means that if there aren't going to be any big names, then the thing needs to be publicised within the folk, instrument playing, singing community.

F

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 07:51 PM

I'd second the last respondent-I didn't kno it was on-£8 seems most reasonable for a w/ends enjoyment.

Glad I organised me 'n chums for our w/end at 3 Stags Heads ,Derbyshire,fab scenery+ unbelievable ales.Only£150 for camping+lots tunes& sogs

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: John J
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 11:22 AM

Lack of publicity in my opinion. I was in Hawes the previous weekend and saw nothing about it, in fact I've only discovered the event after seeing this thread. I rarely need an excuse to go to the Dales, but a folk event as you've described, AND at £8 for a day ticket....well if I'd have known I very seriously considered attending.

I hope it's better next time around.

John
...who's going to Hawes the day after tomorrow (just for fun & cheese)

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 11:56 AM

It wasn't at Hawes it was at Hardraw, which is near Hawes, but not Hawes - hope nobody went to Hawes looking for it - or they'd have had trouble finding it - cos it was somewhere else.

£8 is very good value for a day ticket - but only IF you want to see the line up. Unfortunately, I would probably rather pay more and have more 'named' performers than were on this particular line up. The two that I would have gone to see (Bob Fox and Johnny Collins) are both excellent, but it still needs a bit more to 'pull'.

Just my opinion - it is a fabulous place for a Festival - the other option is to go for a weekend of free camping with music sessions and just rely on the increase in bar takings and food sales.

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 11:58 AM

Also, as they were on on different days, it would have cost £16 to see both of them. (And I've seen them both many many times before - usually for a sight less than that)

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: muppett
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 06:34 AM

Guest Andy were you at the same event as me, I went to Hardraw last weekend, Got there about 2.30 Sat. Sat outside the pub supping and from about 3.30 till about 6.00 when I went to put me tent up, there was non stop singing. Then when I got back we started up again untill about 9.00, till the midges started biting. The singing then continued in various rooms inside almost non stop till 5.oo the following morning, Sheep's fold came hot foot from Filey and started a session in the bar about 2am. OK Sunday was quite, but most who were singing in the bar the night before were supporting hangovers. I didn't go in the concert room so I don't know they were like. But over all I enjoyed it, OK it wasn't as well attended as it could be, but there were enough of us to enjoy it.

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 07:37 AM

I do not see anything wrong with their line up. Bob Fox, Duncan Mc Farlane, Howden Jones, Janet Russell. I cannot see any complaints at £8.00 a day or £15 for the weekend. Great value Most festival are charging £15 for an afternoon or evening. So whats the beef.
Get off your backsides and go next year. I hope it is on.
I must admit I saw nothing about it at any of the festivals I went to. So I suggest a bit more advertising that it is on. Less bleating that there was so few "superstars" to be heard.

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: Carol
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 09:24 AM

From Muppett's description when is the next one?

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: GUEST,Woodchip
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 05:54 AM

I'm 'with' Muppet's viewing of the situation.
Only there for the Saturday, I found the concert ran almost continuously from noon till 1am Sunday morning (short break for tea!) -
that's some value for £8 - the line-up included Bob Fox, Duncan McFarlane Band and Howden/Jones (to name a few) -
all names that grace the 'upper' billing of much bigger festivals than this smaller 'Gathering' (as it was termed).
There was a healthy singaround happening out front (rather than indoors - well, it WAS warm!)
and after doing their afternoon spot in the concert room, the DMcF band promptly set up in an empty pub room
(which subsequently filled up to capacity) and played for an hour and a half (for the hell of it) before going back in to do their evening spot.
They also gave up spots to anyone else that wanted a look-in during that time, bless 'em!
(The landlord's booking them back for an evening of their own I'm told)
Then the singaround certainly blossomed all evening and on till at least 4am.
Yeah, there should have been more folk around - publicity seemed to have been low on priority - but my understanding is that
'previous' organisers pulled out way back, and that at the eleventh hour some local musos had tried to pull summat together so the event didn't fold altogether.
As for the idea of the bulk of the acts being 'support acts'....
Wasn't everyone a support act once?
And do 'support acts' not move on and become the 'names' in future years?
Give it your support next time.
Finally - cracking location!

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: flush
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 03:38 PM

As one of the people who helped to put this years gathering together, having stepped in in May, I would like to say that the feedback we have had personnally has been on the positive side.
Yes we are going to run it next year and if you keep an eye on the website you will see the guests listed as they arte booked.

As for the "support acts" where would the likes of Bob, Dunc and Johnny be without them, they use to be support acts themselves in the past

To all those who did enjoy the Gathering we hope to see you all again next year

Subject: RE: Wensleydale failure, what happened?
From: muppett
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 07:00 AM

Well flush I hope to be there, I'll watch this space for further details