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Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book?
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Subject: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: wysiwyg Date: 12 Aug 04 - 04:50 PM A friend needs to know. Where should she look for a way to back up her newsgroup addy list? Maybe I will point her here to the thread, so if you have questions, ask away. Thanks, ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:02 AM Which version of Netscape? On which OS - Windows? It probably lives in a file in the user profile directory. In the address book window, under the tools menu there may be an "export" option. It will export in several formats - you probably want CSV or text, though it will depend on why you want to back it up (transfer or later recovery). If she's thinking of upgrading to Mozilla/Thunderbird (yay!) then that will automatically import a Netscape address book, so no need to do anything too fancy. Hope this helps. Chris |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Bill D Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:03 PM Netscape addresses...and thus Mozilla, are only HTML files, which can be copied and saved anywhere...I have often transferred bookmarks from one machine to another by just renaming the 'bookmarks.htm' file to 'old' and copying in the one you want. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:08 PM She says it's a NEWSGROUP addy list-- anything different about that? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Helen Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:08 PM Is there a way of accessing Inbox files in the Netscape Mail program? I had a Netscape automatic upgrade - which I didn't set the options for - and lost access to my old Inbox. I'm using Netscape 7.1, Windows XP, on a PC. This problem has been bugging me for a while. Helen |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 14 Aug 04 - 10:41 PM > Is there a way of accessing Inbox files in the Netscape Mail program? Generally you need to "Import" your mailbox files when you change mail programs and perhaps when you update. Try looking for "Import" in the menus. Chris |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 14 Aug 04 - 11:32 PM > She says it's a NEWSGROUP addy list-- anything different about that? Not an "address list" but a newsgroup "subscription list" perhaps. The list of newsgroups you are subscribed might be exportable, but it's more likely that she'll have to resubscribe her new reader to the list of newsgroups she is still interested in. Given the enormous volume of stuff in newsgroups, it's likely that's a shortish list... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: GUEST Date: 14 Aug 04 - 11:37 PM Give us her newsgroups and "handles"
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Helen Date: 15 Aug 04 - 01:20 AM Thanks Chris, I have tried Importing but it doesn't seem to work. Because the Netscape (without my awareness) was set up for automatic upgrades it did the dastardly deed when I wasn't looking, without warning, otherwise I could have backed up my Inbox before it was overwritten (it seems) by the upgraded program. It's frustrating, but I thought there might be a way to access it. Helen |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Helen Date: 15 Aug 04 - 01:23 AM This link might still be down the bottom of the page. It's one of the unobtrusive ads. I have no idea about the program, but a search on Google would find reviews and comments, or other software which might help with the Newsgroup address problem. Address book conversion & migration |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:03 AM > I have tried Importing but it doesn't seem to work I guess that means that without a backup of the old email folders they're probably gone for good. Digging around (looking at modify dates on the files) in c:\program files\netscape might turn up something you can rescue... One trick I have used is to install another email tool (say Eudora) and using it to import the folders. Then you ask Netscape to import back from Eudora. It works because the importers assume less about other programs file formats and locations than they do about their own. Chris |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:05 AM Here is where you can find Eudora. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Aug 04 - 07:17 AM I can't comment directly on Netscape, since it's been about 20 years since I've used it, but in OE the import/export functions for email messages and message folders work only between "existing accounts." The assumption appears to be that you always export from an "existing account" on one machine to an "existing account" on another machine (or another user on the same machine). There is no way, or at least no simple way, to "export" to a backup. You get a "backup" of email messages by "copying and pasting" the entire email folder somewhere. As long as you take the entire email folder, OE thinks it's a valid account and will import stuff back from it into your working email. People seem to want to back up individual folders from email, and often have difficulty getting them back into their email program. The problem is that the subfolders are "incomplete" and your email program may not recognize them as email. You can sometimes get by with copy and paste of a single mail sub-folder (like the Inbox, maybe) into OE's or Outlook's email folder, IF you create a folder in your email program with the identical name of the one you're copying before you do the paste. This isn't a "documented" method, but usually(?) works (YMMV). The problem is that the "email" folder contains the "index" to the messages that are in the subfolders within it, and each subfolder is just one database record regardless of how many individual messages it contains. If you accidentally corrupt the connection between the index (in \email) and the file (e.g. \inbox) it contains, you lose the records (individual messages) or the "folder" isn't recognized and can't be imported. If you create the folder first in your email program, an "index" exists there, even if it's empty; and the program can usually scan the copied data you add to the folder and reconstruct what's in it by "reindexing" the added messages, just as it would for incoming mail or for files you move from one folder to another within the program. Windows, as long as you're using Microsoft Programs, DOES NOT HAVE a separate email address book, as such. You have a "Windows Address Book" (with file extension .wab) that is accessible to any Windows program. Individual programs vary in what they can/will retrieve from the addy book, but Word, as an example, can retrieve an address to put in a memo or letter heading, or can make you a mailing label. It all comes from the same .wab book. You can have as many separate address books as you want, simply by creating new ones with different names, but they all work the same. You would use import/export to move indiviual addresses between address books. You usually save an address book for backup purposes by exporting it, and in this case - unlike with email messages - you can "export" to a backup location. If you "open" the address book itself, you can only export from there as the .wab file. If you export from the File button in OE, and I assume from Outlook, you can choose to export as .wab, rtf, comma separated text (csv), etc. In either case, you can get the whole address book, which can include email addresses, snail mail addy's, phone numbers, nicknames, family info for suckups, etc. When you choose to export an address book in one of the "coversion" formats, you can choose which fields to include in the export file, so if you want to strip the extra goodies, you can use text or csv format to pick and choose. The key is that an address book is a simple database. The "\email" folder is a database, and individual folders and messages within it are just records in the database and should not be separated from the top folder. Most of us don't work often with files in DB formats, so it can be confusing. As indicated, I don't know how much of this is applicable directly to Netscape, but I would expect similar structures and similar procedures there. I'll leave it to those who have Netscape to play with to figure out whether any of the above makes sense. If it doesn't, just ignore. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 15 Aug 04 - 07:31 AM "I don't know how much of this is applicable directly to Netscape, but I would expect similar structures and similar procedures there." John, Thanks for a wonderfully lucid account of how all this stuff works in Outlook Express etc. As others have said, Netscape tends to store config data in javascript (.js) files and email in Unix mbox format which a separate index file (as does Eudora). It's internal address book format is a closed book to me... Chris |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:48 AM JiK, your elucidating explanation confirms the severe dislike I have of many MSProducts, and why I have always used Eudora, which is a little less 'clever' & 'Arrogant Yank Minded' (or proprietary!) about doing things... :-) Being able rebuild most of something from the pieces always seemed a better way of doing things than the 'Write Once - Read Never' method... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 15 Aug 04 - 09:12 AM As some famous American TV ad for a cockroach trap called the Roach Hotel once said: "The roaches check in and they never check out." |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Bill D Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:37 AM since the original question was about newsgroups, it bears repeating that it is almost surely easier to just re-subscribe to them...since a 'subscription' is only telling the PC to remember a list for easy reference. as to mail....I just the other day managed to copy ALL my email and settings for Eudora from one computer to another by burning a CD with the files ..indexes, mailboxes, .ini file. Then I copied them into the new program by first renaming files with similar names to 'mailbox'(old)...just in case I had to do it over....This takes a little care, but was well worth it.....If the new folder in on the same computer, it should be even easier. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:53 AM To clarify-- I don't use Netscape, AND I don;t "do" newsgroups, so I'm not sure what she means when she refers to her mailing list as being a newsgroup-- she uses it to send out PR announcements and a monthly newsletter listing regional festivals and upcoming events/bookings for multiple bands. ?????? And it's her recipient list, lost. However she may send them, I only see them as a recipient. I get these as regular email messages, usually included in a BCC send list, but she says no, it's not a regular address book entry or group, it's a newsgroup list. I've asked her to come visit this thread but since this is a weekend, she's probably out at a festival with her performing husband. Anyway, the loss represents a significant problem for the many paying customers who receive her mailings, and for the many working musicians who depend on them to reach those ticket-buyers. So again, thnaks in advance for any help you may be able to give her. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:28 PM It does appear that several people are reading different meanings into the "newsgroup" terminology. My own guess is that Susan's friend is talking about a group mailing list in her email program - which happens to be Netscape. Nearly all email programs associate to an address book of some kind. Whether it's binary, text, html, or some other "language," address books are nearly all in some sort of "database" format. OE calls a "mass mailing" list a "group address." Netscape may call it a "newsgroup address." All this means is that you enter one name on the address line when you create a new email, and the same message is sent to a list of people. In most of the mail programs I've seen (it's been a while for some of them) the "group" or "newsgroup" list is just another entry in an address book. If you save the address book, you save the list. In most mail programs, you can have more than one address book. Netscape may create a separate "book" if you create a group/newsgroup address with multiple recipients, or it may simply add the group to the existing book. It should be relatively simple to tell whether you have more than one book to back up, once you figure out how to back up the first one. There is an arcane maintenance procedure that sometimes, but not always, is helpful. It's called "R.T.F.M.". I never like to assume that someone has not tried looking in program help files before they ask a question (although it's a pretty good bet, a lot of the time). Help files often are "unhelpful." This does look like a problem that probably could be solved, or at least significantly clarified, by consulting Netscape Help. I do get the impression that some of us have been "solving the wrong problem," which just illustrates the need to be specific and as complete as possible when asking for help. I don't have a problem with the person who has to ask a few questions to figure out how to ask for what they really want. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Helen Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:25 PM Thanks heaps, Chris & John in Kansas. Eudora import/export was always a simple process when I used to use it and then for some reason I started using Netscape. And the explanation of how Inboxes work, John, makes a lot of sense. My old Inbox has probably gone bye-byes now, because it was quite a while back that I lost it, and I've lived without it and worked out alternative solutions to what I needed from it, but I will back up my whole folder just in case and I'll keep a copy of this thread to remind me of what to do - if I ever need it. Helen |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Bill D Date: 16 Aug 04 - 12:50 AM I get it...I use a 'list' for our crafts participants in my email program (Eudora)....one click and I send a notice to everyone. "Newsgroups" means something else entirely...unless there is a backup somewhere, that mailing list would have to be re-created the long way...sad, and tedious. sorry... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Helen Date: 16 Aug 04 - 02:38 AM Every now and then I export my address book lists as a comma or tab delimited file which I can then open up in Ms Excel. It means that the file is always accessible even if my Netscape programme goes on the blink. It also means I can copy it and take it with me if I am working somewhere new or going somewhere, like a holiday. (What is this word "holiday"? Can't remember the last holiday I had.) Helen |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: JohnInKansas Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:46 AM Bill D - Most of us mortals think of newsgroups as something we sign up to get. Somebody does have to put us on the "newsgroup list" to be sure it gets sent to us. I think the confusion here is just which end of the stick we're on. I am curious whether a "feature" in OE is available in, and compatible with other email programs. Normally, when you back up email, you save the entire email folder. You can only recover email from the backup as entire folders. This means that you have to import a whole project, in many cases, in order to find that one message you want. On some of our "projects" that may mean bringing back at least a few hundred messages just to get one. If you have kept some messages, and import a folder that also includes the same messages, you get duplicates, as well. OE, under File, permits "Save As" for a single message, and defaults it to a .eml file that "theoretically" is a separate email message that OE "sees" just like "incoming mail." If you double-click the message in Win Explorer, it opens in your default email program, which in my case is OE, and looks just like any other message there, including any headers and attachments. (The only visible difference is that it is not made part of an email folder, unless you put it into one.) My questions: 1. Do other email programs that people are using provide a way to save single messages separately, including headers and attachments? 2. Does one of these .eml (preferably one from OE) files really "look like" an email if you try to open it in another email program? The last time I used Netscape, I didn't find any such feature, but that may just be because I didn't know where to look. (I was a lot younger then.) I resorted to copying the message text to Word, and saving the attachments separately when I wanted the separate individual messages at hand. (Incidentally, saving messages as individual files will quickly show why email is in database format. The disk space required to save as individual .eml files appears to be about 10x the space required for the same messages in normal OE email folders.) John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 16 Aug 04 - 08:53 AM Ah, yes, confused by a common language. This is the reason that Techie Nerds are obsessed about calling things by the "Right" name... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Chris Maltby Date: 20 Aug 04 - 09:56 AM "Obsessive", moi? For JohnInKansas, the increase in size for individual files compared to mailboxes would most likely be due to the filesystem allocation blocksize. For more modern Windoze systems, that's 4096 bytes, so any individual file will be as many multiples of that as are needed to fit the data. Each file will "waste" on average half that, or 2048 bytes. It can add up to a lot. A file with lots of messages in it may waste a few bytes between messages, but otherwise pack the messages in without fragmentation. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Bill D Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:48 AM --sorry I missed this John...it dropped out of sight until Chris answered. Yes..Eudora allows you to save and individual message as a text file, and you get choices to tick as to whether you also want headers, and if you want it to "guess paragraphs" Pegasus, the major freeware program I sometimes use, does NOT seem to have a 'save' feature, only a print live. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Bill D Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:56 AM I do see that there are programs especially designed to help with this in OE http://www.techhit.com/messagesave/ I read this page about saving in OE, and I see they at least make their saved files, as you say, compatable with OE...I have not used OE in years, but I might try it and see if Eudora will read them... (or I'll do a little search...I'll bet this has been a major issue long before US!) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: Bill D Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:09 PM but from reading this page, I doubt that Eudora, for instance would be able to read saved OE message or folders... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Export/Back Up Netscape Address Book? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 21 Aug 04 - 01:05 AM Windows lets you 'print to a file' - you set up a print device as a file - text only. Robin |
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