Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Can't You Dance the Polka? (from S Slade)
From: GUEST,SqueezeMe
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 02:05 AM

Somewhere in the very dim and equally distant past, I was told (possibly by the late Eric Ilott???) that the "Away, you santy, my dear Annie" was a corruption of the name of several seaports or maritime locations.

Just another theory....

MC

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Can't You Dance the Polka? (from S Slade)
From: Rumncoke
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 07:34 PM

I know this from way back. with Santy and Annie - it is very like the version posted on 11th of June 07 but the emergency attire is flour sacks, not a flour barrel.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Can't You Dance the Polka? (from S Slade)
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 08:26 PM

> So my theory....dun dun dun!.... is that "Santy" came from the two-syllable "Cynthia".

Very plausible, esp. if "Cynthia" was pronounced "Cinthy/ Cinty/ Cindy," as the other dialect spellings seem to suggest.

And the next step (not universal) would have been "Santy...Annie" - via "Santa Anna."

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 12:54 AM

I am sure they are derived from Santa Ana, the Mexican general. DUring the period when AMericanseafaring was booming into legendary status.

Remeber this? "The Battle of the Alamo (February 23 – March 6, 1836) was a pivotal event in the Texas Revolution. Following a 13-day siege, Mexican troops under President General Antonio López de Santa Anna launched an assault on the Alamo Mission near San Antonio de Béxar (modern-day San Antonio, Texas, USA). All of the Texian defenders were killed. Santa Anna's perceived cruelty during the battle inspired many Texians—both Texas settlers and adventurers from the United States—to join the Texian Army. Buoyed by a desire for revenge, the Texians defeated the Mexican Army at the Battle of San Jacinto, on April 21, 1836, ending the revolution."

Hundreds of American songs from the period use Santa Ana's name as a refrain, a target of obloquy, or a nonsense syllable.

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 02:20 AM

Amos--

I am sure...

You missed the part where I said that there is only one reputable source that has anything like "Santa Ana." It has "santee ... Annie." I have probably looked at as many or more documented versions of this song as anybody, and them's the not-so-exciting results.

All the evidence points to something else being sung originally. It is plausible that somebody who heard that "something else" was thinking "Santa Ana" and so turned it into "santee---Annie". But this random misunderstanding only yielded the one documented version (Whall)—and Whall makes no note he was thinking of "Santa Ana." "Santa Ana" being a popular character in songs is a truism that, given the evidence we have, appears to have no relevance to the origin of this chanty.

But then Hugill comes along. If he had not read Whall's version, there is a great chance he'd have never had any cause to speculate about "Santa Ana." "Santa Ana" would never be on the table in the first place, and we wouldn't be talking about it. I challenge you NOT to think about a monkey.

This is a repeated pattern in the chanty discourse. Some early 20th non-historian produces a random variation or throws in a fun idea. Then that is all churned up in Hugill's book like "And BTW FWIW IIRC, so and so uncritiqued or unnamed source says *this*.... Just sayin'!" Then people read the Hugill as the Bible (or one of its offshoots)...the guy was blessed with a lovable personality, ...do a little "folk process" in their minds (= taking the Folkie equivalent of a roofie) such that what they read in that book becomes what they seem to remember they "heard." When some one asks for proof of what they "heard," Hugill's book is produced and it appears to corroborate the information. I did this once as a kid with my friend and a Quija board. We asked the Quija a question, and I pushed it to the answer I knew was in a book I owned. Then I of course produced the book and my friend got some nice chills down his spine...Whoah, the Spirit had actually spoken!

Seen it a hundred times... Jack Ketch the Hanging Johnny, A-roving to the Rape of Lucrece, the Elizabethan Bowline haul, the 'Blood' Red Roses, the British sailors that loved the Mexican Army, the 19th century Scots lament of Lowlands, Hunting for Huckleberries in Maine, The endless punishments of the Drunken Sailor and the Captain's Daughter and her Cat 'o' Nine, Black Ball officers blowing men down, Yankee slave ships going down the Congo River, Irish Wild Geese, Samoan refrains, Dutch 'hoeker' boats, Sicilian Ranzos... Someone oughta make a Snopes.com for this stuff =)

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 08:26 PM

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that "santee...Annie" *means* "Santa Anna" in some magical-mystical-shantical way. Only that "Cynthia...honey" could plausibly have taken the final step to "santee...Annie" because of the familiarity of "Santa Anna." But it could just as easily have come straight from "Annie." The word we academics use for this common phenomenon is "coincidence." I believe that is Gibb's take as well. (What Whall may have thought about it or not is beside the point.)

BTW, S. D. Saunders's pop song, "Can't You Dance the Polka?" (with different words but a somewhat reminiscent tune) was in print by Feb. 22, 1845. The chorus goes:

Can't you dance the Polka?
Won't you dance the Polka?
The joys of earth are little worth,
Unless you dance the Polka.

Evidently it was a long-standing chart-topper. The operatic soprano Dame Nellie Melba recalled it as one of the most popular songs in Melbourne around 1870.

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 02:35 AM

Well, there's no question, for example, about who they're talking about in "All On the PLains of MEX-i-co", which in turn probably descends from the bloodlines of several more widely known shanties. But you are correct--I am not ahistorian, just an enthusiastic amateur with an ear for tongues.


A

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: GUEST,Dave H
Date: 04 Jun 17 - 07:38 AM

Santy simply means Saint. Saint Anne is patron saint of sailors, amongst other things.
There you have it.

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 21 Jul 17 - 03:00 PM

Fascinating discussion here. Loved reading this as we're thinking of adding it to our repertoire
Sal

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 17 - 05:19 AM

I always spoonerise the last line.

Oh, you New York Gals, can't you poke the dancer.

:D tG

Subject: RE: Origins/ADD: Can't You Dance the Polka?
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:14 AM

From James Hall, “Letters from the West: Letter III,” The Port Folio, XII (Sept., 1821):

"To the admirers of the simplicity of Wordsworth, to those who prefer the naked effusions of the heart, to the meretricious ornaments of fancy, I present the following beautiful specimen verbatim, as it flowed from the lips of an Ohio boatman [perhaps at Parkersburg, Va.]:

“Its oh! as I was a wal-king out,
One morning in July,
I met a maid, who ax'd my trade,—
Says I, "I'll tell you presently,"
"Miss, I'll tell you presently!"

Hall added a second stanza in the book publication of Letters from the West (London: Henry Colburn, 1828), p. 91:

And it’s oh! she was so neat a maid,
That her stockings and her shoes,
She toted in her lilly [sic] white hands
For to keep them from the dews, &c., &c.]

“I challenge the admirers of that celebrated poet to point out, in all his works, or in those of his disciples, a single verse which is more simple, more descriptive, or which contains so much matter in so small a compass.”

Experience with folksongs suggests to me that the lyrics are setting up an amorous (make that "highly amorous") encounter.