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Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
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Subject: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,John in Brisbane Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:39 AM I'm currently in Cairns and Janet Hughes has asked me to nominate some songs on this subject. Suffice it to say that my knowledge is limited. Janet wishes to put together a musical programme to highlight the subject of physical abuse for both white and indigenous consumption. Unfortunately Janet sees and hears about abuse all too frequently. While this is a super serious problem, she has requested that the songs are not too dirge-like - a tall ask in my opinion. All assistance would be very much appreciated. The question of finding tunes for what I'm sure will be powerful lyrics may be difficult, but I'll tackle that problem as it arises. Regards, John |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Peace Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:44 AM creativefolk.com/abusesongs.html |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Liz the Squeak Date: 23 Aug 04 - 04:00 AM There's a song that Martin Carthy does about a man who beats his wife, she gets her revenge by sewing him into the bed and then lamming him with a skillet. I can't remember the words, and when I last saw Martin do it at Towersey a few years back, he couldn't either! A quick search in the DT for various keywords failed to get a clue either, sorry. A search for Martin's back catalogue might do it, but I'm supposed to be at work! LTS |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:07 AM Try Harvey Andrews' song 'PG', it's on 'The Margarita Collection' CD. Very masterful, very insightful, very moving. A masterpiece. Can't do blue clickies, just search on 'Harvey Andrews' for his website. SJ |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Georgiansilver Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:43 AM On a lighthearted sort of note(Not that abuse itself is lighthearted of course).."Capstick comes home" is a comedy song but has a man abusing his wife in it. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Wolfgang Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:54 AM A stitch in time (that's what Liz means) Glasgow Lullaby (in the DT) the DT keyword search for such songs would be @abuse. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: nutty Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:09 AM Blue Bleezin Blind drunk is a favourite of mine .....its in the DT. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:11 AM Suzanne Vega's "Luca". Brilliant. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: alanabit Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:15 AM Two contemporary songs are Suzanne Vega's brilliant "Luka" and Tracy Chapman's "Behind the Wall". They should be easy enough to find with a Google search. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:44 AM One you may not have heard of: Jim King Glasgow-based songwiter has a song which is exactly on this subject: "Blood Red Roses" - will you try to buy your way back in with a dozen blood-red roses?... |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:09 AM 'Prince Heathen' by Martin Carthy 'The Old Oak Tree' from the first Boys Of The Lough album All I can think of right now - which is probably a good thing. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:19 AM Presumably you don't want murder songs (Banks of the Ohio, Tom Dooley etc)? Some versions of Trouble in Mind have: "I'm gonna grab me a picket From my neighbour's fence Gonna whup ma woman Till she learns some sense" RtS |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive) Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:21 AM One of the most powerful I know of is "She Sits on the Table" by Tom Paxton. Tom has recorded it twice. It's on The Paxton Report (Mountain Railroad) and Best of Friends with Anne Hills & Bob Gibson (Applesed). |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: dick greenhaus Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:28 AM PI, but classic-- The Wee Cooper O'Fife |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,Folky1 (guest) Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:26 AM Peggy Seeger has written two great songs on this topic, both true stories based on interviews with the women involved. "Winnie and Sam" is a blues with a bouncy melody that is quite un-dirge-like. "Emily" on the other hand is quiet, haunting and gripping in its telling of the story from the beginning of the relationship, through the abuse to her finally getting up the courage to leave the abuser. I remember hearing it on the radio for the first time. It was one of those songs that just makes you stop whatever you are doing and listen. The last verse interjects some hope to the song. Great song. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Georgiansilver Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:29 AM Tracy Chapman.."Last night I heard the screaming" |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,Spot Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:30 PM Mudcats own Strupag has written one of the best 'Calum Moore' Covered by Vin Garbutt. It's a must. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Clinton Hammond Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:31 PM That's actually called "Behind The Wall" GS, and alanabit already suggested it... My suggestions... "Never So Lonely" by Garnet Rogers Tommy swung a brush hook for the county all last year Now he sits in some dark pool hall, Pulling on a long necked beer On one hand's tattooed the word"" On the other hand there is "hate" He lights a smoke and rubs the scars on his knuckles His wife is living here on borrowed time She needs a place to call her own Tommy's out, she can't stay here Where she once called home The marks of his "too-perfect" love are a shadow on her face She shakes and waits beside him in the darkness Never felt so lonely as when lying in his bed The fear that lay between them The brutal words he'd said No more of flinching from his hands No more of living with this fear She's bought her ticket, she's made her plans He's not worth another tear She says she knows it's wrong But while he's gone she sometimes misses him The feeling comes too often Stays too long, like phantom pain from a missing limb She knows she's safer on her own Thank God there were no kids But had there been she till would Find a way to leave him Morning can't come too soon for her She's up before the dawn Tiptoes past him, locks his door Waits out on the lawn She looks back at the silent house As the windows start to glow And with her finger writes "Good-bye" upon his windshield |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Midchuck Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:45 PM Well, you're talking about maybe a third to a half of all bluegrass songs. Gillian Welch's "Caleb Meyer" is good. Heard her do it on PHC, and it was the only time Garrison was ever speachless. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:50 PM "Calum Moore" was written by "Andy Mitchel of Ullapool in Scotland" according to Vin Garbutt's notes on his LP "Little Innocents", which contains the song. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: JennyO Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:12 PM There is a song in Australia which I love, called "He Says" by Karen Lynne. Here is a link to her website which has the lyrics, and an MP3 sample of the chorus of the song. It is on the album "Labour of Love". I think I will post the lyrics here too: He Says (Karen Lynne Frencham, Heather Field) I am walking in the garden, why don't I just walk out and shut the gate behind me and forget I could go and live in Melbourne Just the kids and me And I know he'd never find me there and yet He'd be all alone without us And I'd miss him when he's kind Though I wouldn't miss his anger, or the pain And maybe like he tells me, I'm just a useless fool And I'm lucky to have a husband anyway Chorus He says he loves me and, He says he's sorry and, He says he needs me and it'll never happen again But he says its my fault Everytime he hurts me and, I'm the one who's sorry for what he says in the end. I dreamed that life with him would be like those fairytales But it's a tragedy unwritten and unspoken And though I lie to those around me, and the bruises fade with time It's much more than my bones that he has broken. Chorus |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: muppitz Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:03 PM One that hasn't been mentioned yet is "Blue Old Saturday Night", it's a Julie Matthews song which is on the Intuition album she did with Kathleen and Rosalie Deighton, Pat Shaw, Kate Rusby and Kathryn Roberts, John Wright did it on "The Things We've Handed Down". I know the John Wright album is no longer available, not sure about the Intuition album. I can hear the sound of your footsteps walking down the hall Echo of the the door, it's slam, shook a picture off the wall You start the car in the drive outside Hit the pedal and you're gone If leaving me is oh so easy, why bother coming home? Chorus Oh, old blue, old Saturday night My baby's left me in tears again Oh, old blue, old Saturday night I'm on the rocks and he's rolling away Oh how you hate the sound of raised voices How yours would raise when I'd start to cry And the trembling lips and the trembling fingers Reached out to you and made your temper fly I can't live here in this grey, grey world I'm too afraid to speak my mind And if leaving me means oh so little to you Then coming back is just a lie Chorus When you get home and the lights are all out You'll fumble at the doorway to turn them on You'll stumble to the bedroom but the bed will be empty Look around the house, you'll find me gone And you'll remember all those silent moments And they'll be ringing in your ears There won't be voices raised tonight, but maybe there'll be tears Oh old blue, old Saturday night Your baby's left you in tears Oh old blue, old Saturday night You're on the rocks and I'm rolling away Lovely song, Rosalie Deighton sings it on the Intuition album and makes a great job of it. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Cluin Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:43 PM Marie and He by Lennie Gallant Marie and he, they lived down by the shore I lived alone in a house they called next door A quarter mile farther down the road from there But it was close enough that I could always hear Marie was only twenty-two, with three kids Big sea-green eyes, but then they were mostly hid Dark glasses covering all the damage he'd done After his nights out on the rum In the nearby town, everyone knew the score From whispered stories traded down at the store They could pretend they'd never seen `neath the shades But every night I'd hear her meet his rage We always played together, when we were young They called her my sister though I never had one I thought our time together would never end But she was much sought after then I remember the day he first sailed into town I watched him watching her as she walked around I felt as though a lifetime slipped through my hands As Marie and he walked on the sands But then the sands all washed away, leaving rocks And he beat her and blamed her for his lousy job on the docks No friends or money; he'd just rave about the sea And tell his lies of how she wouldn't set him free (chorus) Last night I walked down the road by the shore I just couldn't bear to hear her take it anymore I waited for him to come staggering home And I sent his body back to sea alone (chorus) |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Phil Cooper Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:27 PM Roseanne Cash did a song on an older recording called, I believe, Rosie Strike Back and also in the country field there's Gretchen Peters' song Independence Day. In the Child Ballads there's Lord Thomas and Lady Margaret (Lady Margaret gets hunted by Lord Thomas's dogs and later poisons Lord Thomas). |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: John in Brisbane Date: 24 Aug 04 - 03:48 AM Such marvellous responses - thank you! I hope to be back home in 48 hours and will then commence the deeper research based on your inputs. Best Regards, John |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: erinmaidin Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:31 AM I always found the song Anneke Gordon, chilling in the way she was forced into a loveless marriage to the point where her father demanded her bridesmaids remove her clothes and put her unwillingly into bed with her unwanted husband. I believe it poignantly points to the traditional abuse of daughters as bartering material for goods and gain. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Susanne (skw) Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:07 PM 'Steady As She Goes' by Brian McNeill is about a woman finally leaving an abusive relationship. Recorded on 'No Gods' (1995). 'Montreal, December '89' by Judy Small is about a mass murder of women at the University of Montreal in December '89. It asks 'Why is it always men who resort to the gun, the sword and the fist?' Recorded on 'Snapshot' (1990). 'Crying Inside' by Heather Jones and Liz Fordek also highlights the plight of battered women, though personally I find it rather a tear-jerker. Recorded on 'Valley Lights' (1986), a sampler of Welsh songwriting. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Joe_F Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:08 PM Plenty of the Child ballads have such stuff in them. You might particularly like Eppie Morrie, wherein the heroine fights back for a whole night, whereupon the ruffian who has abducted her is a good sport & lets her go. Not a dull line in it. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Juan P-B Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM I suppose this comes under the definition of 'abuse' - Cracking song though Angel Of Mercy (Ron Trueman-Border) Victoria station at eleven-fifteen She's drinking cold coffee by the ticket machine The crowd's pushing by her and in each stranger's face She sees an angel of mercy, fallen from grace On the back streets of Soho she stumbles and falls And there in the darkness by the tenement walls She slips that sweet needle way down deep in her vein She hears that angel of mercy whispering her name Once she was pretty. Once she was young And the sweet taste of life was like wine on her tongue Now the wine's turned to water and the years have slipped away She hears that angel of mercy calling "Judgement Day" Now there's nowhere she can run to. Nowhere she can hide So she steps into that back-seat and she swallows her pride And as she gives up her body she closes her eyes Feels that angel of mercy right there by her side So she slips into the church. Falls down to her knees Makes the sign of the cross and prays, "Sweet Jesus! Please, If my sins can't be forgiven and if my soul cannot be saved Send down an Angel of Mercy to lead me to my grave Chorus She hears the beat of the drum and the toll of the bell She's torn between kingdom come and the heartbreak hotel Tonight she's walking in the wilderness. Into the great unknown Sweet angel of mercy come down and carry her home |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: *Laura* Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:46 PM Agree with Chris B (guest) Martin Carthy's 'Prince Heathen' is pretty chilling! But still manages to be quite inspiring. xLx |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Bill Hahn//\\ Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:13 PM Try also Kristina Olson's The Yellow Piper---about being subservient and then finally coming into your own. She also has a few other things on various CDs. I don't know if Phil Ochs---Small Circle Of Friends qualifies since it is about a true incident of rape and murder---but not by a relative. Bill Hahn |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,hsa Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:14 AM Try this one, covered by Sean Keane on "Turn a Phrase". I think it's a superb sensitive song for someone with the right voice. Writing On The Wall Lyrics By: Mick Hanly I've broken all your bones And promises I gave, Sat upon some throne, Like the one who owned a slave. And I never had the guts To turn to you at all And I constantly ignored The writing on the wall I've listened to your dreams With one ear on the shelf, Fed you reams and reams Of stuff about myself, And I ploughed on like the blind Regardless of a fall Because I couldn't see The writing on the wall And when the hammer fell, It was like a mortal blow And I turned around to see Someone I didn't know. And I thought I knew you well, Oh, I thought I knew it all, But I never thought I'd see The writing on the wall We hurt the ones we love, To see how they might bend, Push our luck so far That we break them in the end. And the day that we wake up They've gone beyond recall Because we couldn't see the writing on the wall Helen |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: open mike Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:40 PM I think i remember there might be some songs along these lines from Jane Voss, will listen and report back |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,JTT Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM Does shootin' your woman down count? Cooper of Fife: He's laid the sheepskin across her back Nickety nackety noo, noo. noo And with a good stick he went whickety-whack Risselty-rosselty, hey, pomposity Nickety nackety noo, noo, noo. Then there's the bluegrass one about the fellow who says: "Now if I had a scolding wife I sure would whup her some..." (though a friend whose people come from Misery says that this suggests he's "whipped", not her). |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Cluin Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:04 PM "Knoxville Girl" by the Louvin Brothers "Tom Dooley" by the Kingston Trio "The Old Oak Tree" by Boys of the Lough All songs with the same basic theme of the murdered young lover, either stabbed or clubbed to death (and drowned for good measure). |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: gecko Date: 27 Aug 04 - 03:50 AM Please accept my sincere thanks for your response to John's message. I now have more material than I can use but you might be interested to know that the 'Liverpool Lullaby' answers my needs perfectly - and Eric Bogle will be attending the Folk Festival where my workshop will be held so I hope he'll come up trumps and sing it for us! As a very new Mudcat member I'm more than impressed with this site. janetH |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: gecko Date: 27 Aug 04 - 04:47 AM Well, I got that wrong, didn't I? Bogle wrote, and I hope he'll sing, 'Glasgow Lullaby'! Silly me! May your weekend be memorable. janetH |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Susanne (skw) Date: 28 Aug 04 - 03:43 AM Janet, it was quite clear to me what you meant, and I hope he'll do it. He's a nice bloke. Hope your workshop goes well and you'll come back to the Mudcat to let us know. I'm off to Tonder Festival now, where I've seen Eric before (not this year, though). |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Dani Date: 28 Aug 04 - 06:44 PM How about "Do You Love An Apple"? Dani |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: breezy Date: 29 Aug 04 - 11:32 AM Polly on the Shore ??? maybe by Lester Simpson |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Willa Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:58 AM The Martin carthy song mentioned arly in the thread is 'Stitch in Time' and it's in the DT. 'Must I be bound?'also ends on a positive note. Willa |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: shepherdlass Date: 30 Aug 04 - 05:18 PM Tommy Armstrong's "Bobby and Bet" - it's in the printed song collections but I don't know of a recording. Also, the "Sandgate Lass's Lament" - High Level Ranters on the CD version of the "Iron Muse". |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Bert Date: 30 Aug 04 - 06:28 PM Eileen Tipping has a really great one. You'll find her with a Google search. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Herga Kitty Date: 30 Aug 04 - 07:05 PM John Warner's Kitty Kane ... "pregnancy, injury, theft and brutality threatened and scarred me again and again..." and "rough drunken brutes with the manners of cattle who let me lie bleeding and shaking with pain, but I served them their drinks while my bruises were healing..." Kitty |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,Suzi Date: 30 Aug 04 - 07:26 PM RON TRUEMAN-BORDER has written a song..BATTERED WIVES key of D for guitar D Bm7 Nobody sees...few people know Em7 A He's always careful to hit you where the bruises don't show D Bm7 Forever suffering in silence,holding back the tears Em7 A And it's,"Don't scream too loud now the neighbours might hear" G D A D G D A D A CHORUS:Battered lovers,battered wives,battered mothers,shattered lives When she was expecting she thought things might change But bad went to worse,just bringing more of the same She knew she should leave then but where could she go When your barefoot and pregnant no one wants to know CHORUS: Bm G D BRIDGE:Beaten black and blue there's nothing she can do A Bm No shoulder to cry upon no one she can turn to Bm G D And though the scars may heal and though the wounds may mend A F#7 Bm Em A For her the hurt goes on somehow it never ends Her spirit's been broken she's been bent to his will By the belt and the fist by those looks that could kill Now she goes through the motions day after day Looking for oblivion in a valium haze INST CHORUS: Tonight he's been drinking,tomorrow she'll find Him sober and sorry just like the last time It's that old vicious circl,sick and obscene Where the abuse and the violence have become routine CHORUS: BRIDGE: And the police will call,there's voices in the hall They'll ask about your slip,they'll hear about your fall And surely it's a shame but no one can be blamed It was an accident these things happen after all Nobody sees, few people know And all the surveys and statistics can never ever show How it feels to be that woman at the mercy of that man And unless you've been a victimyou can't understand CHORUS: Ron's website is www.folking.com/rontruemanborder if you would like to cantact him about this song |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST Date: 30 Aug 04 - 07:40 PM HEY! Shepard's Ass Will Ya? Drafty John Dan E Mike Open (mouth - insert ???)
Looky folkys - it is a DISCUSSION forum ----PLEASE POST the lyrics!!! and give a citation for your source.... (unless they ARE in the DT collection of classics)..then give a link.
You know the artist, you know the correct lyrics, you know the sources.....as a "lyrical community" we all need to contribute more than your pitiful references within this thread.....
HOW CAN YOU DISCUSS "you will find her on GOOGLE" "she had a great one?"
GET OFF your pathetic SORRY LAZY ASSES - (feed your donkies) and CONTRIBUTE - if you have the knowledge - acknowledge - give back to the college.
This HAD potential to become a MudCat Classic Thread - but it withers before its Fall.....with your sort of "contributions" the traditions would be dead!
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Bill Hahn//\\ Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:06 PM Janet H: Topic aside (not music) lucky you having Bogle appear. To me the most talented individual---and also the warmest one. Had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing---I think I put the mic. in a glass case after that. Damned expensive buying another one. Send him the regards and god-speed from Bill Hahn WFDU in Teaneck NJ. Bill Hahn |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: JennyO Date: 30 Aug 04 - 11:34 PM You have a point Gargoyle. Kitty Kane is on an album of Walters and Warner called "Pithead in the Fern". Margaret Walters' website is here It contains the lyrics of many excellent John Warner songs, including Kitty Kane. Margaret Walters sings it and so does Herga Kitty. Short of recommending buying the album, I don't know how to give anyone the tune. I can't find an MP3 of it anywhere. I will post the lyrics here anyway: KITTY KANE © John Warner 8/11/93 I came up the Thomson with thousands of others, When Walhalla's gold worked its wild, shining spell. I was young, I was pretty, I called myself Kitty, I offered the best jewels a woman could sell. A length of fine velvet in well fitting burgundy, Tight round the curves where a man's eyes would fall, Lace at the edges and eyes full of laughter, Oh young Kitty Kane was the pride of them all. Chorus I might take a walk by the wild Thomson River Where the Mountain Ash rise in the soft, misty rain, There's gold in the range and there's gold in the memories Of the lady of pleasure they call Kitty Kane. * As the wealth from the mining flowed into the valley, I moved from a shanty up to a hotel. I'd seen enough squalor, I saved enough silver To make me a place where I'd play the game well. Pregnancy, injury, theft and brutality Threatened and scarred me, again and again, But in black lace and silver, I waltzed with the miners, And shone in their vision, for I'm Kitty Kane. The publican brought a piano from Melbourne, I could tell you right now, it was never in tune, But the work-weary diggers came crowding to hear it When Samson would play in the late afternoon. On nights when Walhalla lit up like a fire, And the miners were roaring some boozy refrain, There would always be eyes lit with lust and desire, And bright gold for evenings with young Kitty Kane. There were schemers and sailors and bearded old diggers, Whose tough, hairy hides had the gravel ground in, Young men far from home who still needed a mother, And sad, furtive parsons who needed to sin. Rough, drunken brutes with the manners of cattle, Who let me lie bleeding and shaking in pain, I've served them their drinks while my bruises were healing, And I laughed and I shone, I was still Kitty Kane. I've heard the men singing down at the piano, That youth, it soon passes, and beauty will fade, But I gave them their pleasure when I was past forty, It's the light in the eyes made me queen of my trade. Though Walhalla now is all merchants and farmers, Whose wives see in me what they think of as shame, I'll die in this valley with fine, singing memories, My name's Kitty Kane, I was best in the game. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 30 Aug 04 - 11:58 PM Nice posting Jenny O....much better...in fact Well Done!thanks for the meat.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Bert Date: 31 Aug 04 - 01:19 AM Sorry about that, you are right Garg ol' buddy, I only heard it a couple of times and I can't remember the title. It's a girl's song so I didn't learn it. I don't have her permission to post any contact info. So I didn't. I searched for a while but she hasn't posted the lyrics to that one on her website Bert. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Willa Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:54 PM Gargoyle. I was surprised to find that 'Must I be bound' is not in the DT. Different versions are mentioned in this thread. thread.cfm?threadid=31277#405846 |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Big Al Whittle Date: 31 Aug 04 - 06:37 PM The andrrews sisters Beat me Daddy Eight to the Bar Can't find my Robert Johnson lyric booklet - but theres certainly some reference to woman beating in his stuff |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Susanne (skw) Date: 31 Aug 04 - 06:42 PM None of the lyrics I suggested seem to be in Forum or DT yet. However, they can be found here: Steady As She Goes Montreal, December '89 Crying Inside |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 Aug 04 - 09:33 PM I stand to be educated -
Please explain, the rational (three points of argument would be nice, but two would suffice)
HOW - the Boogie Woogie classic, Beat Me Daddy - Eight to the Bar could possibly be considered "violence to women?"
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:01 PM Willa - if you are surprised (and I am too) and you have them (the lyrics)....PLEASE post them ... in a new thread as an addition to the DT....then others can augment what they know.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:03 PM Whoooaaaa! Jumpin' JeeeHosephat!!!!!
Someone got my motor burnin' and the fumes a spewin'
Step back HonkyKat - we need a new attitude!
Seriously, I was fuming and ready to start flaming when the honky-tonk classic Beat Me Daddy - Eight to the Bar appeared within this thread....
(But....we are all MC 'neighbors' and likewise.....we sometimes know another's 'buttons.' Thankfully, the thread crashed thrice...and I re-booted twice.)) I can now step-back and chuckle - well done!!!! Many "feminists" under the age 50 could (but, probably would not) constru the title to woman/child abuse by a domineering male.
To prevent confusion:
Here are the lyrics - and a delightful rendition is done by the Andrew Sisters.
Beat Me Daddy Eight to the Bar:
In a little honky-tonky village in Texas
The people gather around when he gets on the stand
A-plink, a-plank, a-plink plank, plink plank
He plays a boogie, he plays eight to the bar
In a little honky-tonky village in Texas
The people gather around when he gets up on the stand
A-plink plink, a-plank plank, a-plink plank, plink plank
Sincerely,
This is one of the keyboard-classics it exalts womankind - and does not demean them.
It also exalts keyboard players - which is why it may have gotten my goat. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:08 PM Isn't there a restriction against children under age 21 gathering and posting in the MudCat Cafe?
This IS based in the New England states of the USA - (can't we become a little more puritanical?)
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,McKwaig Date: 01 Sep 04 - 02:27 AM The only song I know of that fits into that category is Only Women, by Alice Cooper. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Dani Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:55 AM From Sweet Honey in the Rock, words and music by Nitanju Bolade Casel VERSE 1: I don't even know in which direction I should go But I'm sure it's the right thing to do It's time to make a move. The first time I was shoved, I should have been out the door. But I accepted the apologies and open myself up for more... Abuses Excuses Abuses Excuse me! I don't have to live this way. I am leaving you today. Abuses Excuses Abuses Excuse me! I don't have to suffer anymore I'm walking right out of the door... VERSE 2: Some of my "so-called" friends advised me to stick around But they're not the ones getting cursed and slapped or beaten down to the ground. They say financial security is hard to come by for a woman like me And for the children I need a good home, and I should sacrifice until they're grown...with Abuses Excuses Abuses Excuse me! I don't have to live this way. I am leaving you today. Abuses Excuses Abuses Excuse me! I don't have to suffer anymore I'm walking right out of the door... (CHORUS: I am gonna run far away from here....) VERSE 3: Now, I don't blame myself for the present situation. For this kind of behavior there is no justification I'm looking ahead to the future but I won't forget the past I won't repeat this part of my life, I'm thankful it's over at last No more... Abuses Excuses Abuses Excuse me! I don't have to live this way. I am leaving you today. Abuses Excuses Abuses Excuse me! I don't have to suffer anymore I'm walking right out of the door... Run... to a shelter Run... to a friend Run... for my life Before it comes to an end. (CHORUS: I am gonna run far away from here....) |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Dani Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:56 AM Sorry, it's called "RUN". Dani |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Midchuck Date: 01 Sep 04 - 10:02 AM Remember Tom Rush's early recording of "Sugar Babe?" All I want my Sugar to do, Make five dollars and give me two... Goin' down town and get me a line. Gonna whup that woman 'till she change her mind... Goin' down town and get me a rope, Whup that woman 'till she buzzard-lope... Ah, I miss the elegant simplicity of the great classics. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Willa Date: 02 Sep 04 - 05:11 PM Gargoyle I have dutifully opened a new thread! |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Eric the Streetsinger Date: 02 Sep 04 - 05:37 PM There is one by Australian singer, Archie Roach called "Walking Into Doors" "you're a man- you say you understand, but you don't you say you'll lend a helping hand but you won't. well i'm a man, and i understand, but i sleep at night i say that what you put her through- it isn't right! it isn't right. so brother, don't hurt her anymore she's got her way, you've got yours. and she's sick and tired of walking into doors." Thats the gist of it. terrifically sad, yet hopeful song. beautiful melody. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Marion Date: 03 Sep 04 - 01:57 AM The Flag (by a Canadian band called Barenaked Ladies, on the "Gordon" album) The phone rings, it's early, it's seven o'clock He says "Sorry I woke you, but I just had to talk You know last night, remember when I tried to choke you I didn't mean it, I was drunk, it was only a joke, You should know that by now When the checkered flag comes down No one, no one, no one has won the race." The next night he's over, and over and under And after he's finished, she lies there and wonders Just why does she need him, and why does she stay here And then in the darkness she'll quietly say, "Dear, You've never really known That when the white flag is flown No one, no one, no one has won the war." They're complicated people leading complicated lives And he complicates their problems telling complicated lies He tells her he's sorry, she tells him it's over, He tells her he's sorry, she says over and over "You've never really known That when the white flag is flown No one, no one, no one has won the war." [There is a fourth verse that I can't remember, but it's kind of abstract and has no obvious connection to the story verses.] Someone above mentioned Luca, a song from Suzanne Vega which I heard a lot in the 80's - although I think it's about a little girl, not a woman. Here is my memory of the lyrics - quite close on, I believe. My name is Luca I live on the second floor I live upstairs from you Yes, I think you've seen me before If you hear something late at night Some kind of trouble, some kind of fight Just don't ask me what it was Just don't ask me what it was. chorus: They only hit until you cry After that you don't ask why You just don't argue anymore You just don't argue anymore Yes I think I'm OK Walked into the door again If you ask, that's what I'll say It's not your business anyway chorus: I think I'd like to live alone Nothing broken, nothing thrown Just don't ask me how I am Just don't ask me how I am repeat first chorus: Couple of questions for you, John in Brisbane: 1. The songs that have come up in this thread are mostly about men battering women. Do you also want to know about songs that talk about rape or child molestation? Or about violence in gay relationships? Or other forms of misogynist violence (genital mutilation, honour killings, female infanticide etc.)? 2. The modern songs that have been mentioned here are all written from a socially aware, anti-violence perspective. Would you have any use in your presentation for modern songs that are genuinely misogynist - like a "listen to what kids are hearing, this is what we're up against" portion of the program? Marion |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST Date: 03 Sep 04 - 02:04 AM Good point Marion!
If you want to move out of "folk" and on into the ghetto - there are songs that will straighten your kinky curls under a do-rag and make Aunt Jamima's dugs sag down to the rug - whoooeee girl - if you want to go there - its a fine kettle of fish you be stirrin. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,alinact Date: 04 Sep 04 - 11:24 PM A song from Frankie Armstrong, of which (sorry, Gargoyle) I have absolutely no details, and which I assume is called Nothing Between Us (lyrics below). Also, No Half Measures by Alistair Hulett,which to quote from the songbook The Song Goes On, edited by Lynne Tracey, was "written after reading one woman's account of life with an alcoholic husband. What was most moving about this woman's story was the absence of judgement or bitterness, just sorrowat the useless waste of an intelligent mind" And for all you closet punk rockers out there, a song (and I use the term very loosely) called The Boiler by Rhoda with The Special A.K.A featuring Nicky Summers. This piece is quite harrowing listening and is about the rape of a girl, and finishes with about 5 minutes of primordial screaming by "Rhoda". Allan NOT MUCH BETWEEN US I was walking along some side street down in Brockley (?) when I heard a woman singing something softly. She was thinking aboutthe husband she'd done without since the day he went away and then he never came back. Singing to him she was a little too late because the last thing he'd ever done was leave her flat. These are the words she sang , I can hear them now. Can't hardly believe you ever really loved me, did ya'. Though your mates all said you swore you'd have me, didn't ya'. Well, you had me too, and I loved you, thought you was happy with me. Didn't we get married, and didn't I carry those two kids we had, you give me. We made them between us, is there nothing between us now? Not much between us that Saturday night I met you, 'ceptin' the girl come with you, you soon had to ditch her. Never said much, you and me, never had to, we done alright without it. 'Cos I fancied you, and you fancied me that's all there was about it. Atre them days all over, no, never there between us now. Nothing between us, that first night we slept together. Naked and aching to be one another's lovers forever. If you'd been honest you wouldn't have promised, now there's a new head on your pillow. She don't know you yet, the way I do, times she does it will likely kill her. Your girl comes between us, is that nothing between us now? Not much love lost between us, precious little left like. We ain't together no more, but the wounds will never heal, like. 'Cos there's been things said and there's been things done, perhaps you could have hit me harder. Now there's an empty half of bed, and your clothes are gone and two kids without a father. Yet you write me a letter saying there's not much between us now. So you walked out the door for good an' all then, ain't ya'. Left your wife and your past and your kids and their future behind ya' Now one week in four your cheque comes through the door, it's the least you can get away with. Rolled up so small, can't hardly see it at all, are we just things you play with? Hating and hurting, that's whats between us now. Was it the kids come between us, didn't half make you jelous? I really believed you'd rather I'd been out with other fellas. But it was you who was off to a new job up north, where you met and fell in love with someone. You been two years gone, I.ve had to soldier on, but I'm learning to be me own woman. But how can you tell there's nothing between us now? Oh, how can you tell me there's nothing between us now? |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 04 Sep 04 - 11:36 PM Just curious ALL0-in-AN-act
If YOU state that the song is called:
Why do you title it:
Sincerely,
ANOTHER EXAMPLE of: The "digital" becoming more "oral-like" every day. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,alinact Date: 05 Sep 04 - 04:01 AM Ooooh - I knew you would be a Pedantic SOB - purely a slip of the keyboard. Allan |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Willa Date: 05 Sep 04 - 04:27 PM Alinact The song is called 'Nothing Between Us Now' and is Track 5 on Frankie's 'I Heard a Woman Singing', released 1998, Flying Fish Records 332. If you go to the Amazon site you can hear a sound clip. (Hope that'll keep Gargoyle happy!) Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: allanwill Date: 05 Sep 04 - 11:18 PM Thanks, Willa. Allan |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:44 PM I've just been watching a Dixie Chicks DVD (live at Kodak Theatre) for the first time. This song caught my attention as a toe tapping song that's relevant to the cause. The Dixie Chicks Goodbye Earl Written by - Dennis Linde From - Fly Maryanne and Wanda were the best of friends All through their high school days Both members of the 4-H club Both active in the FFA After graduation Maryanne went out Looking for a bright new world Wanda looked all around this town And all she found was Earl Well it wasn't two weeks after she got married That Wanda started getting abused She put on dark glasses, and long sleeved blouses And makeup to cover her bruise Well she finally got the nerve to file for divorce She let the law take it from there But Earl walked right through that restraining order And put her in intensive care Right away Maryanne flew in from Atlanta On a red eye, midnight flight She held Wanda's hand, and they worked out a plan And it didn't take them long to decide That Earl had to die... Goodbye Earl Those black eyed peas, they tasted alright to me, Earl You feelin' week? Why don't you lay down and sleep, Earl Ain't it dark, wrapped up in that tarp, Earl? The cops came by to bring Earl in They searched the house high and low Then they tipped their hats and said thank you ladies If you hear from him, let us know Well, the weeks went by and spring turned to summer And summer faded into the fall And it turns out he was a missin person Who nobody missed at all So the girls bought some land at a road side stand Down on highway 109 They sell Tennessee ham and strawberry jam And they don't lose any sleep at night Cause Earl had to die... Goodbye Earl We need a break... Lets go out to the lake Earl We'll pack a lunch, and stuff you in the trunk, Earl Is that alright? Good! Lets go for a ride, Earl. Hey! Well, hey hey hey! Aw hey hey hey! Well, hey hey hey Regards, John |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 18 Jan 05 - 10:32 AM A little different approach in this song: I Had a Wife Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: beeliner Date: 26 Jul 10 - 03:01 AM It's kind of a long thread, but did anyone mention Frank Hutchison's Old Rachel? My stepdaughter, then a teenager, was quite moved by Suzanne Vega's "Luca", mentioned previously. I found it rather trite and exploitative. Generation gap? |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,Larry Saidman Date: 26 Jul 10 - 01:32 PM I remember hearing the New Lost City Rambler doing a very old song called "It's a Shame to Beat Your Wife on Sunday (when you got Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday)". Supposedly a humorous song, but depicts a scary but common attitude of the time. Another one: About Every Step You Take (I think that's the title) by The Police (Sting). To me it appears to be about stalking. And similarly, the old 50's rock song by The Rays (later done by Herman's Hermits) called Silhouettes also has a "stalking" theme. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1 Date: 16 Apr 11 - 04:28 AM Hi, I'm listed as a guest, but that's because I can't log in. What about "Stone Cold Dead In the Market?" You can find it in the DT. |
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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Apr 11 - 10:06 AM How about a medley of 'If I had a Hammer' and 'The Beat Goes On'? wink! GfS |
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