Drum machines

Subject: Drum machines
From: GUEST,Monahan
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 07:13 PM

I'm looking to add a drum machine, any suggestions out there? I looked at a couple and they seemed far to complicated for what I intend to use it for. I just need a little help cutting through the noise on a crowded night when just an acoustic and vocal aren't cutting it...

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 08:40 PM

I used a Roland 5000 drum machine for a number of years with good results. Very simple to operate with loads of sounds and rythms. Just sold mine a few weeks back as I no longer do that type of work. I am sure there must still be some out there and the price should be good as they are somewhat obsolete today. I will check with the fellow who bought mine. Perhaps he will part with it. If so, I will post again.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 08:50 PM

The advantage of a drum machine over a 'live' drummer is that you only have to punch in the istructions once.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 03:55 AM

They all have patterns - find the menu that says pattern play. choose which patterns you want. A basic rhythm that fits the song you want . don't try to write a programme for your song you want.

The korg ones used to have a pedal you could stamp on to give you a drum fill to break the monotony. However those dedicated gigging machines were of another era, all these things have a life expectancy of only a few years and if you get one its likely to be so old that there will be problems in the offing. Check with the pedal that the segment starts when you hit the pedal - some them carry on metronomically so when you hit the pedal you get it starting mid beat.

The roland is very good - so is the allesis sr16. They can all do fairly complicated things - the thing that you want to do though is quite simple - just learn how to do that. Make sure you get the right pedal - there are latching and non latching pedals - one of them, I can't remember which - has to be hit twice (which is no good for you) - they can be converted from non latching to latching with a clever flick of something or other - buy from a shop where they know this kind of stuff.

best of luck

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: mooman
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 05:57 AM

I used one once for a demo recording in the absence of a drummer/percussionist and it caused no end of problems. I have reverted to doing the percussion parts myself now for recording. I can always tell where a drum machine has been used on a recording as even the best ones cannot reproduce the dynamic variability of a human drummer.

For a live gig I would never consider one as our music is often highly syncopated and subject to rhythm changes and impromptu variations. However, that gives me a different problem of finding a drummer who is both sympatheic to our musical style and feel and who fits in well on a personal basis. Six informal auditions have failed so far to find exactly the right person.

I can find a use occasionally during rehearsals to give an approximation of the rhythm we are looking for, especially with new material. For this I use some software called Doggiebox with my Mac which is fully programmable beat by beat and which uses a varity of sampled real drumkits.

Peace,

moo

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 06:24 AM

What's wrong with a real drummer? Aren't there any good drummers in your area who need and would take this job?

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:05 AM

What's wrong with a real drummer? Um. Where do I start?

If you got a real drummer you'd better have serious PA. Oh and a mixer. Oh and don't forget the monitors. Oh and a guy to mix your sound. Oh and a vehicle big enough to take all this stuff. And don't forget rehearsal rooms.

Drums without bass? Personally , I think yuk.

It sounds like the (?) guest who started this thread is doing pub or bar gigs. Many of them will not book a band with a drummer. And if they do book him with the drummer, the poor guy is not going to get any more money for it.

If you've got limited programming skills try and get a machine that will play midi files ( The Yamaha QY series are ok and start at £10 on ebay )

The Zoom rt323 is a great drum and bass machine. It holds about 20 songs and takes smart media. The thing has a pattern play function so you can add fills on the fly. Start/stop footswitch, 48k samples and it's very easy to program. It does groove stuff as well so it doesnt sound wooden like most drum machines. It has partial GM compatability too.. It doesn't drink beer and doesn't want paying after the gig.

I recently recorded a band that uses one, and I can send you an MP3 if you want. PM me.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the gigs.

MofA

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 10:17 AM

There was a band by the name of Timbuck 3 that used to perform with prerecorded tapes of bass and drums on a boombox. They would plug it into the PA and pop in whatever tape they wanted to play along with. They used to program three or four songs per tape. If you do get the drum machine to do what you want that might be an option.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 01:41 PM

what sheltered lives some folks live. of course you can do gigs with a guitar and a drum machine - and there are many fine artistes doing this. And you are quite right it will make your sound just that little bit stronger in a noisy pub. its a sound idea, and I hope you do well.

I bet Jesse Fuller and Robert Johson would have loved to have a drum machine in some of the dumps they had to work.

whats wrong with drummers - let me count the ways.....

lets put it this way - if you ever have a few empty weeks to fill put an advert in the local paper and the national music press for a drummer. you will meet many fascinating people - very few with any sense of rhythm. Good drummers are all working and they as thin on the ground as the proverbial rocking horse shit.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 05:55 PM

To those of you who work single acts: I have a foot bass pedal, made by Carl Sempreveo in Florida and wrote up in Guitar Player Magazine some years back. It is played with the left foot and simulates the notes of a Bass Guitar on the two top strings up to the 12 fret. Root note is played with the toe and also bass runs while the 5th is played with the heel and is always directly behind the root. I do not use this any longer as I am getting too crippled up to get around so will sell very reasonably. It worked well for me along with drum machine, guitar and vocals.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:36 PM

I've heard decent musicians playing accompanied by a drum machine. And they sounded bloody horrible. Any time a drum machine enters the room is a good time to leave it.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Bert
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 01:32 AM

I used to think that drum machines were a bit tacky, but I went to see a solo player one time he sang with a guitar and he used a keyboard with programmed drums for rhythm.

It worked out quite well. It was obvious that he had had a lot of experience with it.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Mudlark
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 02:14 AM

I'm sure as a performer, drum machines are the berries, but as a listener, I've never yet heard one I really liked. I think they degrade the music. Maybe I've just never heard a superlative drum machine. My only experience is that it is a dumbing down of the music, it's obvious, and it reduces by a significant percentage, my enjoyment of the "rest" of the music being presented.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 04:42 AM

Heeeeeellllp

Whats' wrong with real people playing real music ??

Why not resort to the juke box?   I despair.

Anybody ever hear/see John Lee Hooker beating out time with his Foot? Lightinin' Hopkins doing likewise with bottle caps on his shoes or John Hartford's percussive foot work with or without a board ?

All much cheaper alternatives and more entertaining to boot.

I've seen one bluesman using a rhythm machine and it must have been among the most boring performaces I've ever witnessed.

Subject: RE: Drum machines
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 05:36 AM

Seems in the pre-drum machine era, there was some decent music (correct me if I'm wrong). Now, with drum machines, we have techno-pop. Is this an improvement?