Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??

Subject: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: s6k
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:18 PM

hellooo

i was wondering: does anyone know any websites with Martin Carthy tabs or chords on ????

or more specifically for any song off the album "martin carthy"

on mudcat there is a link to "the two magicians" but it says im not authorized to view the page"

also the songs "the wind that shakes the barley" and "sovay" dont have the chords.

anyway the songs from martin carthy are
High Germany (2:31)
The Trees They Do Grow High (3:31)
Sovay (2:09)
Ye Mariners All (1:47)
The Queen of Hearts (2:21)
Broomfield Hill (2:51)
Springhill Mine Disaster (4:21)
Lovely Joan (1:49)
The Barley and the Rye (1:39)
The Wind That Shakes the Barley (4:26)
The Two Magicians (3:23)
The Handsome Cabin Boy (3:24)
And A-Begging I Will Go (2:54)

i missed off scarborough fair, cos ive got the chords to that. but it would be very nice to play some of the other songs, and search engines bring me nothing but lyrics.

(PS - a few songs are acapella on the album, i know) but i been desperately trying to play along with high germany, trees they do grow high, sovay, two magicians etc.

any help, MUCH appreciated! cheers, have a drink on me

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:35 PM

Don't know where you'll get the tabs.

But try tuning your guitar to

instead of tuning your guitar to

E A D G B E

try...

D A D E A E

I know it works for Palaces of Gold and King Willie.

Try experimenting with a few tunes - it certainly gives the right kind of sound.

He plays very hard and loud. You'll probably need fingernails to get the sound. He frequently uses a muting technique to cut notes or chords short. I could show you this but your not here! He uses drone type harmonies a lot too.

I think this is one of the tunings he uses most often and if it isn't someone will come along and correct me!

I'll have a pint of guinness please.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 03:20 AM

I bought a video of Martin teaching his method. His usual tuning is CGCDGA. The songs you have quoted are very early ones and he might have been using something closer to standard way back then or possibly DADGAD. Suffice to say that his current tuning requires radical rethinking about how to play the instrument. The video is called "Martin Carthy - British Fingerstyle Guitar". The catalogue number is OV11208 and is distributed by Music Sales Ltd, Newmarket Road, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk, UK IP33 3YB

I'll have a pint of Greene King Triumph please.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 03:41 AM

If you can find one there is a good book. ' Martin Carthy, A Guitar In Folk Music ' some bastard stole mine.

eric

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 04:50 AM

It weren't me stole your book Eric, but I do have a copy of ' Martin Carthy, A Guitar In Folk Music '.

The only choons in it on s6k's list are Sovay, Lovely Joan and Scaborough Fair.

The suggested tuning for Lovely Joan is C G C D G A, and suggested chords 'harmonic clues, not to be followed slavishly' go as follows:

G9          C             G
A fine young man it was indeed,
       G7          C             G      
He was mounted on his milk white steed,
    G9          C       G          C
He rode, and he rode, he rode all alone,
G7       C      Csus   G
Until he came to lovely Joan.

The tuning for Sovay is given as D A D C# A C#, but no chords are given.

s6k says he has the chords for Scarborough Fair, but briefly, for the rest of us, the sequence given is:

D9/sus C         G          D9
Are you going to Scarborough Fair?
C       D9      C         D9
Parsley, Sage Rosemary and Thyme;
         C    D9             G   
Remember me to one who lives there,
D9       G    C   G    C   D9/sus4
For once she was a true love of mine

For D9/sus in the given tuning, you hold down string 4 at fret 4, and string 2 at fret 3, it says.

Only a few of the songs in the book have chords suggested - Martin was worried about creating too many 'Carthy Clones' - as if!

LFF

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Eric the Streetsinger
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 04:27 PM

I went to a Martin Simpson workshop several years ago, and on a break between sessions, he talked to me a bit about Martin Carthy's technique-
one thing MS told me about MC that was utterly critical to me in learning Martin Carthy's stuff is to remember to keep your alternating bass drone- strict tempo! There are a variety of tunings that work well for Martin's tunes. My favorites are
CGCGCE
CGCGCD
or variations on these, tuned
half a step up or down to fit other keys.
DADGAD and DADCAC work nicely too!
Open "C" (CGCGCE) is a great place to start, because it clearly states
a key- and by retuning the high "E" string, either a half or a whole
step flat you can get into "Cminor" and "Csus4" (the C version of DADGAD)
Have fun!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 03:54 AM

I know who it was Long Firm Fred, and he knows too, the twat.

eric

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 01:34 PM

When Martin recorded his first album he was still using standard tuning. He later started using DADEAE as noted above. He now uses a C tuning, but that's a tangent here. The Martin Carthy book mentioned above has no tab or chords. Martin doesn't like tab, and discourages anyone from simply copying him, the point being that we should experiement and all find our own 'voice' in music.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Bluesboy
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 07:48 PM

The trees they do grow high is Capo 1st fret.
Chords are:

Em, Bm, A, G, D, Em, Bm, A, Em, G, D, Em, Bm, Em.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 08:09 PM

Somewhere I have some chords to Wind that shakes the barley that I could dig out for you, but they do not come from Martin Carthy, but from an Irish songbook that I learnt the song from. Let me know if you want them.

Sue

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Valmai Goodyear (at work)
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 05:21 AM

Martin is doing an all-day workshop at the Lewes Arms, Mount Place, Lewes, East Sussex BN7 1YH on Saturday 19th. April. There is a maximum of 12 places at £45 each. Martin also performs at the Lewes Arms Folk Club that evening (tickets £8, maximum 50 people).

Full details and advance booking forms for both events will shortly be available from the Lewes Arms Folk Club website: http://www.lewesarmsfolkclub.org/

To be added to the Interested list (which is nearly full) please PM me with your postal address.

Tootle pip,

Valmai

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 07:15 AM

Willie's Lady works well in

ECGCGE, as does Brown Adam, Cottage in the Wood, and Famous Flower of Serving Men.

I think too this is the tuning Martin Carthy uses for Prince Heathen, but I might be wrong.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 07:20 AM

PS High Germany works in concert tuning (EADGBE)using clawhammer based on Am, C FG, and E.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 07:23 AM

Having always had difficulty in telling left from right (or me arse from me elbow, if the truth be told) the tuning I set out in me first post above is 1st to 6th and NOT 6th to first.

Sorry.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Rupert
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 05:40 AM

Hi

Do you have a tab for Willie's Lady? I've been having trouble with this. What's the time signature? I'm guessing it changes.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:39 AM

You could get the acoustic masters dvd - you can slow it down and freeze it and watch what he does. Its very interesting dvd and he is very interesting on the nature of folksong, and guitar playing and guitar buying.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: cptsnapper
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:23 AM

Didn't Mike Raven write a book which included some of Martin's tunings?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:39 AM

he puts in tab for his instrumentals.
I just use the book as a song book, I dont use the same chords as he does for Lovely Joan,to me the tune is based round a d modal to c progression,which is different from what he suggests.
In my experience the best thing is to find an open tuning that works for you,and then work things out for yourself.
I do lovely Joan in double drop d.
When I play Scarborough Fair in standard.
I prefer to start in A minor.,and I use an inversion further up the fingerboard.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:28 PM

The thing about MC as a guitarist is that he had the balls to rewrite the rulebook, and say standard tuning isn't working for me - neither is DADGAD.

You don't have to play the guitar like MC to use his tunings. he is not prescriptive as so many of the great guitarists are. You bring your own touch to these to these tunings.

You don't have to sing the songs he sings. You don't have to believe what he believes about folk music.

The tunings are a treasure chest waiting to be opened by any musician. As he says in the video, the system of chords was tie-ing up the songs, and his system is based on making the guitar serve the songs - rather than strait jacket them and make them follow the chord pattern.

Its a set of ideas that could be applied to any body of work.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:16 PM

The guitar can serve the song in any tuning[including standard].it is the skill of the practitioner that is important.
The Concertina is an instrument,that also serves the song,if used skilfully,but the accompanist, does not have the benefits of open tunings,yet still it is achieved.
open tunings do have certain advantages ,they also can have disadvantages.
IMO   the Guitar fulfills its full potential when all tunings are explored properly[including standard ]and used.
open tunings are not the be all and end all,but, they are useful. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:54 AM

Thanks, WLD - I didn't know that MC had KBed DADGAD, but I'm well pleased to hear it.

I have never been able to work with DADGAD. Believe me, it wasn't for want of trying (in many senses !) but I thought this down to my ineptitude. After all, Dick Gaughan and Pierre BenSusan, to name but two, play in nowt else.

I am, though I say it, an accomplished player in Open G, Open D and Open C, all of which I am very comfortable with.

All praise and credit to Martin Carthy for having shown us the way.

(Should anyone like a chord sequence for Open C, other than the 5th and 7th barre, please PM me.)

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:57 AM

PS - whilst in open C - 1st to 6th :-) - E C G C G E - I found that raising the 1st to F gave a tuning ideal for accompanying "Searching for Lambs".

Damned if I know what it is called, tho.

(Sorry for thread drift, fellow 'Catters.)

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 07:46 AM

Davy Graham was the man who opened the door for Carthy.
he has been slagged off on this forum but he is the man we should also be thanking.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Grab
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 08:08 AM

WLD, that should be true for any arranger. Once you've got the hang of some of the common altered tunings (eg. drop-D, double-drop-D, open-G, open-D, DADGAD) and you've figured out what kind of distinctive sounds and movements you can get out of those tunings, you should be in a position to invent your own tunings to meet the needs of a particular tune.

I don't think Carthy is particularly setting the way in trying different tunings. For one, Davey Graham invented DADGAD and experimented with all sorts of tunings too, so 60s musicians like Carthy already had an example of someone doing it. And really, if you've got any sort of bump of curiosity about you at all, not long after you first drop the low E to D the thought should occur to you: "I wonder what happens if you change other strings?" The only difficulty is first getting the confidence to break out of standard tuning - after that, the rest follows logically.

Thing is, any guitar tuning is always a compromise. Open drone notes can fill in the background beautifully whilst freeing you to move up the fretboard, but if you hit a chord that doesn't match an open drone note then you need to find a fretted note to match. Strings tuned close together (eg. the upper GAD of DADGAD) make it easy to play legato harp-like passages by alternating strings, but there's the disadvantage of reducing your range. Conversely expanding the instrument's range (eg. dropping low E to D) means that fretting some notes on that string changes the notes available to your hand on other strings, which can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on how it works out. Standard tuning didn't become standard because it's particularly good at any one thing (although it's usually a good choice for playing in E or A) but because it's the least-worst at everything.

Bryn, I think your tuning is Cadd11. It's not a Csus4 because you have the Es in there which make it major, and it's not a C11 because you're missing the 7th.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:24 AM

Thank you, Graham.

Concur with your comment as to Concert tuning - I read somewhere that this is the best workable compromise.

I guess (from total iggerance) that the Baroque Guitar would have been tuned differently when rasguado style was being played, and punteado was being played ; one from the other, I mean.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:33 PM

Bryn,
I have just been experimenting with your tuning .I have just been picking out the melody of Adieu sweet lovely nancy,which is in a major key and it works very well,quite a dulcimer type sound.
I used the same intervals for the top 5 strings,but kept my top e and b the same so e b f# b f# but tuned my 6 string to E,Thus I only have to re tune my 3 4 5 strings,of course the 6 string might be better for searching lambs as you suggested tuned down a semitone.it looks like it might be a versatile tuning. B Major is one of my natural singing keys,so keeping 1 string tuned to E,makes sense foer me so thanks,nice one.
so my variation is a sus 4 tuning.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 05:01 AM

martin does indeed pay generous tribute to Davy Graham on the dvd. i saw davy, Martin, bert jansch - all those guys in their first flushes of youth but open tunings never really did anything for me until I met Ken Nicol - about four years ago I went to a seminar at Fylde. ken really opened my ears up.


I suppose I was a fairly accomplished guitarist before then. I don't think really Bryn, that its much to do with your level of accomplishment (John Williams seems to do okay in standard tuning). Some people just sort of open a door for you. And if the winds in the right direction for you, you sail through.

Brian peters has a real slash and burn approach to DADGAD that I admire.   About thirty years ago I saw tony Pose playing DADGAD - Thorneymoor Woods, and would have killed to get something like that into my own playing - i tried get that 'bounce' that Tony could get by using a twelve string - it didn't work! But great as these players are, I don't think they would have drawn me in like Ken did.

DADGAD's waiting for you - and Martin apparently!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 05:43 AM

Thanks for your courtesy, WLD, and yours, Captain.

Guitarists of the world unite ! You have nothing to lose but your fingertips.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:59 AM

Sorry that should be Tony Rose!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:26 AM

re Martin's CGCDGA tuning - is that from 6th to 1st?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:29 PM

yes.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:32 PM

Thanks! I thought it was but having tuned one of my guitars to CGCDGA,it's not producing the same sound as Martin in his Guitar Maestros DVD,even though he says his is tuned that way. Hmmmm.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,broon.
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:26 PM

i really want to learn Famous Flower of Serving Men... can anyone advise me on the tuning, capo and any cord shapes? Thanks.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:08 PM

I do it (not the same, but "my way") using a tuning capo (a Scott or a Third Hand). Or there is a cut-off shubb that will do the same but just for teh mock DADGAD. Put the guitar in standard. (EADGBE)Use capo on teh ADG strings at the second fret. You now have EBEABE (or DADGAD one tone up).

Fret the A with your second finger to make a B note. You now have an E-ish two note chord (dyad).

Mentally picture the rhythm (in that dyad).

I was born a ..

Just as you start the word "lady", fret teh middle "E" string (as it now is) at F sharp using first finger, pull off, fret the lower B string (as it now is) at D using ring finger and as the word "fair" starts, go back to that E-ish dyad. Your second fnger had not moved yet!

Second line, keep that second finger there!

Fath(C sharp, ist finger) er's chief (D, ring finger) and (the dyad)
on (D) ly (Csharp) heir (pull off in the middle of the word to revert to the dyad

And whenmy good old fa (F sharp) ther (dyad) died (first finger on ther (dyad) then put first finger where the second was and put the ring (on the middle E (as it now is) string at G sharp

I (on the dyad) was made a (copy the notes of the end of the first line over thw words) young knight's bride


Then I keep that rhythm going throughout as if I were laying a modern dance tune, and just alter weight and voice for teh story.

I have cut it down to 19 verses though! It makes it really easy - I'm a crap guitarist but this way it sounds half decent and fools people who are not watching.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 03:28 AM

Guitar Tuning: DGCGCD (6th. to 1st strings)

Chords:

x07070
x09090
x05050
x04040
x02020
x0 11 0 11 0
x0 14 0 14 0
x00000
200000
320000

From thread: Chord Req: Famous Flower of Serving Men tuning?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:37 AM

I find this (FFOSM) works in Open C

1st to 6th : E C G C G E or C, as you choose.

I tend not to play the 6th in this tuning, on FFOSM, anyway.

The do, re, mi, so run I play on the C strings in octaves - open ; fret 2nd ; fret 4th ; fret 7th.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 06:39 AM

For the last few years I have been using CGCDGC sometimes referred to as C Modal and is C sus2 I think


I do have to work at not "doing a Carthy" as I find that this type of tuning and have Martin's brilliance floating round in the old atavistic memory, means that one can fall into do a bit of a copy.

Of course its essential to try a develop your own voice with the instrument, but still, if you are going to sound a bit like somebody then Martins the man for me.

I think its great that he never fails to pay tribute to Davy Graham whenever he can. Top geezer

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: mattkeen
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 06:40 AM

Sorry about the previous typos

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 09:29 AM

i have been experimenting with,ef#bf#bd#.[although Ithink of it as fgcgce],you have an open drone for your subdominant 6 string 5,4,strings foryour tonic,5 string for your dominant.
it seems quite easy tp pick out tunes,its based round b major,and quite easy to transpose from dadgad tab,and sounds very appalachian dulcimer like.of course if you bar your top five strings you have different major chords.
another useful tuning that NicJones used to use,is cgcgcd.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Dane
Date: 25 May 08 - 08:21 PM

Can anyone tell me the best string gauges for CGCDGA?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Melissa
Date: 25 May 08 - 08:44 PM

Hi Guest Dane,
There's a current thread called something like Fingerpicking Fast/Shredder Travis and in that thread, there's a link to a site that looks like it has a lot of alternate tuning information.

You might find what you need there.
It looks like an informative site..

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Melissa
Date: 25 May 08 - 08:47 PM

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=111497&messages=1

I mangled the thread title.
It's Fingering Fast/Shredding Travis (I think)

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: GUEST,Dane
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:20 PM

Thanks a lot!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Martin Carthy Chords/Tabs??
From: Melissa
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:23 PM

yup..have fun!