HELP: Italian translation

Subject: HELP: Italian translation
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 04:35 AM

Can anyone help me with this? It concerns an Andante written by Clementi, and I have already run it through Babelfish and a few other computer-translators, so between that and my rudimentary knowledge of Italian I have worked out the bones of most of it. But I'm not clear about something -

I know the opening sentence states that Clementi had many reasons for writing harp music (and the original text goes on to list a number of his friends who played or manufactured the instrument). But is it telling us that he actually DID do so, or merely that he might/could/should have? (There are plenty of harp transcriptions of his keyboard pieces.)

In particular: Does this say that Spohr specifically asked Clementi to write this work (Andante with variations) for HARP, or is it a more general statement? The passage about Cardon indicates that his students were eager for new harp music, as evidenced by letters, but it does not say that Clementi wrote anything for them. Is this correct?

My main concern with this translation is to determine whether anyone actually commissioned this Andante from Clementi as harp music – or is it merely a transcription of an already existing piano work (the sonata cited below)? I think the latter, but I want to know for sure what I'm reading. I would be so grateful if someone could give me a live-human translation because I really need the nuances of meaning.

I have copied the words exactly as they appear in the original text, though I haven't yet mastered how to do the diacritical markings in html, so there is a backslash over the "e" in some places which doesn't appear here. I will appreciate any help. Many thanks!

Bonnie

Clementi ebbe molteplici ragioni di scrivere musica per arpa …
Nel 1802-1803 era stato in Russia dove il concertista d'arpa Cardon aveva per allieve uno stuolo di granduchesse, che come risulta da lettere del tempo, erano avide di musica nuova per lo strumento; conosceva anche Spohr [whose wife was a famous concert harpist]. Quale sollecitazione abbia seguito nello scrivere l'Andante Con Variazione, non ci e dato sapere.

Il tema ricorda quello del secondo tempo della Sonata Op.12 No.1 per pianoforte, che e del 1784, ma la sua espressione e le variazioni, molto diverse, sono prettemente arpistiche, secondo la tecnica e lo stile del tempo. Nel manoscritto conservato alla biblioteca del Conservatorio di Venezia, non esiste alcun segno di interpretazione. [The manuscript is kept in the library of Venice Conservatory but it contains no editorial markings.]

Subject: RE: HELP: Italian translation
From: The Half Fiddler
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 07:50 AM

Ciao Bonnie
I have the same your problem but opposite : I know italian but not so well english.
I try to translate for you all. Write me if is good or if you need better a particular part.

Ciao
Vincenzo


Clementi ebbe molteplici ragioni di scrivere musica per arpa...
[Clementi had multiple reasons to write music for harp.]

Nel 1802-1803 era stato in Russia dove il concertista d'arpa Cardon aveva per allieve uno stuolo di granduchesse,
[In 1802-1803 he had been in Russia where the concert harpist Cardon had for student many grand duchess,]

che come risulta da lettere del tempo, erano avide di musica nuova per lo strumento;
[that than as it turns out from letters of that time, they were eager of new music for the instrument;]

conosceva anche Spohr.
[he knew also Spohr.]

Quale sollecitazione abbia seguito nello scrivere l'Andante Con Variazione, non ci e dato sapere.
[Which solicitation (What kind of…) has followed to writing "l'Andante con Variazione", it not given to know to us (we can't know)]

Il tema ricorda quello del secondo tempo della Sonata Op.12 No.1 per pianoforte, che e del 1784,
The topic remembers that one of according to time of (is like, make to tink to, it's the same of, the second part of..) the Sonata Op.12 No.1 for piano, that it is of 1784,]

ma la sua espressione e le variazioni, molto diverse, sono prettamente arpistiche,
[but its expression and the variations, much various, are merely for harp,]

secondo la tecnica e lo stile del tempo.
[second (follows the technique…) the technique and the style of the time.]

Nel manoscritto conservato alla biblioteca del Conservatorio di Venezia, non esiste alcun segno di interpretazione.
[In the manuscript, kept in the library of Venice Conservatory, don't exist editorial markings.]


Vincenzo

Subject: RE: HELP: Italian translation
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 04:02 PM

Thanks so much, Vincenzo - I really appreciate the trouble you've taken!

Subject: RE: HELP: Italian translation
From: Peace
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 06:12 PM

I love what just happened above. That is the way to world peace.

Subject: RE: HELP: Italian translation
From: Kaleea
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 09:19 PM

Me too, brucie!! It has been much too long since college when I used to sing lots of Italian & could actually figure out most of it.
    Yes, yes, yes!! If folks would just sing & play Music, they would be too busy having fun to pick up the guns. How about a new promotional project:
    MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS FOR GUNS--
          byline: anywhere, planet earth--

   The organization known as Catters Without Borders has announced their new initiative to promote good vibrations amongst earthlings. They will be trading Musical Instruments for guns of any kind. Simply take your gun(s)& any amunition along with it to a Catters' Jam Session location near you, and for each gun you turn in you will get to choose a wonderful Musical Instrument fully tested for excellence and playability by Catters Without Borders members. You will also be invited to attend Catters'Jam Sessions for free Music Lessons. Come early and receive a bonus Instrument Accessory Package! First come, first served.

Subject: RE: HELP: Italian translation
From: The Half Fiddler
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 04:39 AM

Ciao Bonnie
I'm happy to help you, I hope that it has been usefull to you.

Brucie, is important what you say, it seems normal but the times that we are living tell us that many people don't think like us!!!

Kaleea it a big thing !!!
In Italy we can try this kind of project, because we need guns for the football match!!!
I'm jocking, I would like to de-dramatize but in many countries the guns are a big problem.
But I think that before is necessary to change mentality, this is origin of the problem. I some places is tradition have knife or gun and when you have a object may be that you use it.
(I think that I begin a discussion to big for my....)

Ciao
Vincenzo

Subject: RE: HELP: Italian translation
From: GUEST,Gigix
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 12:03 PM

It looks like Vincenzo has done most of the job. Coming to your question: "to determine whether anyone actually commissioned this Andante from Clementi as harp music – or is it merely a transcription of an already existing piano work (the sonata cited below)", the text you transcribed gives no answer. The general meaning of it is that there are some clues that Clementi actually wrote for harp, but there is no real evidence about it.

Luigi