Weird and spooky songs (not in English)

Subject: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: CET
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:11 PM

I had good luck some time ago with some threads I started on German folk songs and outlaw/robber songs in languages other than English, so I feel inspired to start another one. I have a particular fondness for songs with a supernatural, or at least weird or unsettling, feel, e.g. Pretty Susy, Wife of Usher's Well, Loving Henry, Lord Randall, Twa Corbies, etc. I would like to learn more about similar songs in other languages, and particularly about any good recordings. French and German are the languages I can sing without too much difficulty, but the field is open.

Thank you, class. You may begin.

Edmund

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:25 PM

The Outlandish Knight is known in most Western European countries, and Holger Nygard (The Ballad of Heer Halewijn, 1958) thought that it had come to Britain via France, having probably originated in the Low Countries. Most of its early supernatural features have disappeared, but it remains an odd and disquieting song. See Renaud le Tueur de Femmes.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:47 PM

There are a few 'Henry-my-son' songs in Welsh. Also one - "Angau" (Death) - which is one of those, "Death chased me and eventually caught me - farewell everyone" songs. Both are available on an old tape from the 1970s still available for £5.00 from the Welsh Folk Song Society, www.canugwerin.org

There are also a lot of songs involving a stroll through a graveyard but there's nothing supernatural about them; move of the broken heart, lay me down to die variety.

siân

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: CET
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:51 PM

Thanks. I can make a bit of a stab at Welsh, so I may order a copy of that tape.

Edmund

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: lamarca
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 10:14 PM

Le Roi Renaud is a popular French traditional ballad recorded by lots of folks, from Edith Piaf to Yves Montand to Pierre Bensusan and even June Tabor. It is the spooky story of young King Renaud who goes off to war and returns, mortally wounded. He asks his mother to make up his bed, but not to let his young wife know that he is dead, as she has just given birth to their first-born son.

When the young mother wakes, she asks her mother-in-law questions about the weeping maids, the tolling bells, the procession of priests, etc. The dowager queen makes up excuses for all the signs of mourning, until she can no longer hide the truth from her son's widow, who dies of sorrow.

Lyrics and discussion of the song can be found here and here.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:28 AM

There is a wonderful Greek traditional song (my guess is it's about 300 yrs old), which falls right into this category. I have it in my "future projects" to do an English-style ballad with it in translation, but haven't felt "ready" to have a crack at it yet.

It's called "Song of Constantine", and the story in the balled goes roughly as follows:

Constantine is the youngest of a widow's 9 sons; there is a young sister too, the apple of her mother's eye, who falls in love with a "foreigner" and wants to marry and go to "distant lands". Mother is against it, because she doen't want her daughter to go so far, and "what would happen if I am on my deathbed and cannot see her to say farewell". Constantine promises that he will go and fetch his sister, when the time comes. The sister marries and leaves.

Plague falls on the land. All 9 sons die from it, and the mother, herself on he deathbed, curses (dead) Constantine for having promised something that he now cannot deliver. A mother's curse being the strongest possible, it breaks Constantine's tombstone and he rises from the grave with his steed. Both look ghostly white, and kind of unwell, unsurprisingly.

Constantine rides to his sister's house to fetch her. She is puzzled by his looks, but he brushes he comments off with excuses (tired etc). She rides home with him, and on the way various animals, speaking with human voices (as is their wont) comment on this beautiful maiden riding with this corpse. Constantine keeps making excuses to his sister.

They make it to their mother's front door, where Constantine, having delivered on his promise, turns to dust with his steed, and his sister just makes it in time to say good bye to her dying mother.

The story is straightforward enough, then (!). My problem with this is that in the original Greek there is some very strong imagery and wonderfully inventive use of language, and I want to somehow transfer that to the translation. Worth noting that this song has contributed no less than three commonly used proverbs/sayings to the contemporary Greek language. It's a bit of a Holy Grail therefore, and I won't touch it unless I feel confident I can do it justice.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: GUEST,CET
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 05:56 PM

El Greko, I think you're the man to do it, judging from your song about the pearl divers. Would you keep the original tune?

Edmund

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: LadyJean
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 01:44 AM

the McGarrigle sisters recorded a French song "Blanche Comme La Neige" that is wonderfully creepy. They also did "Perrine Etait Servante", which is meant to be cheerful, but Perrine's boyfriend gets eaten by rats.
As I remember it, the English ballad, "The Sad Courting" has it's origins in Eastern Europe, in a song very like "Constantine". I think I found that in "Green Hills of Magic" by Ruth Ann Musick. But don't quote me on that.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:03 AM

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Edmund - one day.... I will probably not keep the original tune, as it is far too slow and, to be honest, hard to digest for western ears in my opinion. What I will try to do is devise a simpler trad-sounding tune that crosses borders, a bit like "Johnny don't go walking with the fishes".

George

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Metchosin
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 04:34 AM

A lot of the material that Garmarna does certainly fits the bill, if you can get your tongue around the language. Sort of the stuff you think and sing about in the dark depths of winter when you've had a bad case of ergot poisoning. But don't let my flippant remarks put you off, they're great!

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: CET
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:00 PM

Garmarna looks like a very interesting band - what's not to like about werewolves and trolls and misery and death? However, for me it would definitely be music to listen to, rather than sing. My linguistic skills are not up to Swedish, I'm afraid.

Aren't there any suggestions from the German Mudcat contingent?

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: GUEST,Celi
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:04 PM

Hmm, let me see. At first there is an folksong called " Der Tod reit einen schwarzen Rappen " also known as "Flandern in Not" in english:
"Death rides a black Horse" or so....Another one is "Piet am Galgen" If you like the whole text, feel free to mail me
( [e-mail]), I will look if I find some different ones.

Greetings, Celi

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: GUEST,Celi ( again)
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:21 PM

Oh, one I still know:
Es waren zwei Königskinder, hope that fits..

1. Es waren zwei Königskinder,
Die hatten einander so lieb,
Sie konnten zusammen nicht kommen,
Das Wasser war viel zu tief,
Das Wasser war viel zu tief

2. "Herzliebster, kannst du nicht schwimmen?
Herzlieb, schwimm herüber zu mir!
Zwei Kerzen will ich hier anzünden,
|: Und die sollen leuchten dir." :|

3. Das hört eine falsche Nonne
Die tat, als ob sie schlief.
Sie tat die Lichter auslöschen,
|: Der Jüngling ertrank so tief :|

4. Es war an ei'm Sonntagmorgen
Die Leut' waren alle so froh
Bis auf die Königstochter,
|: Sie weinte die Äuglein rot. :|

5. "Ach Mutter, herzliebste Mutter,
Der Kopf tut mir so weh;
Ich möcht so gern spazieren
I:Wohl an die grüne See." :I

6. Die Mutter ging nach der Kirche,
Die Tochter hielt ihren Gang.
Sie ging so lang spazieren,
|: Bis sie den Fischer fand. :|

7. "Ach Fischer, liebster Fischer,
Willst du verdienen grossen Lohn?
So wirf dein Netz ins Wasser,
|: Und fisch mir den Königssohn!" :|

8. Er warf das Netz ins Wasser,
Es ging bis auf den Grund;
Er fischte und fischte so lange,
|: Bis er den Königssohn fand. :|

9. Der Fischer wohl fischte lange,
Bis er den Toten fand.
Nun sieh' da, du liebliche Jungfrau,
|: Hast hier deinen Königssohn. :|

10. Sie schloss ihn in ihre Arme
Und küsst' seinen bleichen Mund:
"Ach, Mündlein, könntest du sprechen,
|: So wär mein jung Herz gesund." :|

11. Sie schwang um sich ihren Mantel
Und sprang wohl in den See:
"Gut' Nacht, mein Vater und Mutter,
|: Ihr seht mich nimmermeh'!" :|

12. Da hörte man Glockengeläute,
Da hörte man Jammer und Not,
Da lagen zwei Königskinder,
|: Die waren beide tot. :|

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: CET
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:53 PM

Thanks, Celi. I haven't got time to write much now, but will post something next week. Any suggestions about recordings?

Edmund

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:13 AM

There's a fabulous Irish song called An Mhaighdean Mhara - The Mermaid - based on the backstory of a Tory Island fisherman who pulled in a woman in his nets one night. He fell in love with her and brought her home, taking from her her mermaid's cloak, and so her memory and her desire for the sea.

She lived happily with him and they had two children, Pádraig and Máire, who were one day playing when they found the hidden cloak. They persuaded their mammy to put it on, and the sea's call was one she could not resist.

In the song itself, the verses go between third-person narrative describing the daughter wandering the shore at the mouth of the estuary and the mother swimming against the tide amid the pouring snow; first-person narrative of the daughter describing her mother ("A maiden of the sea is my noble mother") and the mother calling to her children: ("Grown-up, gracious Máire, fair-haired Pádraig").

It's available on the album Amhráin ar an Sean-Nós, though I don't know how easy it is to get the album - the tune is as spooky as the words.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Boab
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:56 AM

There is a spooky classic which is HARDLY in English--
"The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry"
There may be some dissent here?

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:53 AM

Der Tod reit't doesn't seem so weird or supernatural to me. It is a song commemorating the heavy losses of the Wandervogel (a German youth movement) suffered during the battles in Fanders during WWI.

And not to forget Goethes famous Erlkönig.
Ritter Ulinger killed 11 virgins in the woods, the 12th is saved by her brother.
Heer Halewijn, a similar rogue with the same fate, from Belgium.

But really spooky is Gottfried August Bürger's Lenore.
Lenore is an unmarried mother, her lover was pressed to military service and never came back. One night he comes back and brings on horseback to their marrying - in a cemetery, where she discovers he is skeleton and long dead. That is the spookiest poem I ever read. It was set to music by several composers, but I didn't find the sheets or a sound track.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:55 AM

oops - and brings her on horseback

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: CET
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 08:22 PM

"Lenore" reminds me of "The Suffolk Miracle", in which the young woman meet's her lover and ties a handkerchief around his head, not realizing that he has been dead for a year. There are a few versions in the DT:

"He summoned clerks and clergies too,
The grave was to open and him to view.
Although he had been twelve months dead
The handkerchief was around his head."

I love "Es waren zwei Königskinder" too, but I wonder if it is more tragic than supernatural or mysterious. Is there a sense of second sight, with the king's daughter somehow knowing that her true love has drowned? I think this is another song that has echoes in British traditional song. Isn't there a version of Annan Water in which the young man actually makes it through the raging water at night, only to be turned away by his lover's treacherous mother who impersonates her daughter. Then he rides back but can't make it to the other side. The heroine follows him and they both drown.

Edmund

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 09:47 PM

You're right about Lenore/Suffolk Miracle/Holland Handkerchief: they belong to the pan-European Spectre Bridegroom family. In the second case, I suspect you're thinking, not of Annan Water but of Clyde Water. Neither is particularly weird or spooky as such things go, I'd have thought; but it depends on your perspective.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 10:54 PM

as I remember there was a nice little spooky verse about a headless horseman outside Okehampton Castle.

The Cornish probably win this competition hands down. they have a spooky tale about every little village. probably more spooks in that county than actual inhabitants. See Daphne Du Maurier's book about Cornwall for a small sample.

A great Celtic people like the Cornish people must have set it all down in song.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: gigix
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 06:14 AM

Although I am not very deeply in Italian folksongs, there are some interesting murder ballads (if you think you can manage Italian). One of the most famous is "Donna Lombarda" (Woman from Lombardy) about a woman who tries to poison her husband in order to be free to stay with her lover, but the husband finds out that the wine is poisoned and so he forces the wife to drink it herself. In another one, the woman suffers for the loss of her beloved so she keeps his head buried inside a vase of flowers. Than we have Santa Lucia (Saint Lucy) who wants to keep her maidenhead; and when the King of France kidnaps her in order to force her to marriage, saying that he is in love with her eyes, she takes her own eyes off and gives them to him. And so on...
Luigi

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 01:37 PM

The classical definition of "ballad" I learned at school was "the irruption of the supranatural into natural life", and the best example we learned was Lenore.
A lot of the songs proposed here do not fit this definition exactly. Especially not the "zwei Königskinder", which is a love story without a happy end; cf. the old Greek saga about Hero and Leander.

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: CET
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 07:52 PM

Gigix: My singing teacher is a tenor who sings a lot of Italian opera, so I think I could take a stab at an Italian folk song (an apt phrase perhaps for what I might do to the language of Dante!) The Italian songs mentioned above don't sound supernatural, but keeping your dead lover's head in a flower pot is weird enough for me. Any recommendations for recordings?

"The irruption of the supranatural into natural life" certainly fits a lot of ballads, but would also exclude a great many traditional songs that most people would class as ballads. It would certainly exclude many of the Child Ballads. My own hallmarks for a ballad are that it should tell a story, and have a crisis which is frequently, though not necessarily, resolved fatally.

I would really like to find a tune for Lenore, although I expect any available tunes are of the concert or art song variety, rather than folk. Perhaps I could find a traditional tune to fit the words to.

Edmund

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 08:36 AM

Es freit ein wilder Wassermann
Gehe nicht, oh Gregor
Schoene Agnete
Of course, the Loreley also fits here (no link necessary I think)
Herr Oloff

Many songs about the devil, but maybe they do not really fit.


Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Weird and spooky songs (not in English)
From: Maija
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 12:05 PM

Do you know "the Twa Corbies" ("Krähenfraß") in German? And I'm not sure if this is exactly spot on, but "die Braut" and "die Bräutigam" are also sort of unsettling... ;-) And of course "Julia und die Räuber".