Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice

Subject: Tech: Help needed
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 10:38 AM

Has anyone hd this problem and if so how did you correct it.I've tried all my knowledge.All my email comes twice.Same message on both so if you get twenty messages you delete twenty.I'm willing to try anything.It doesn't hurt anything it just a pain in the ass Louie

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed
From: MMario
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 10:43 AM

Have you talked to your e-mail provider?

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:26 AM

No I haven;t,but getting in touch with msn is like pulling hens teeth nearly impossible Louie

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed
From: MMario
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:28 AM

I would stongly suspect the problem lies with them though - I can't think of anything on a local browser that would cause this.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:37 AM

It is possible to have this happen on most email systems, but it requires a very odd set-up. Using Outlook, for example, you can set up the 'Advanced' settings to leave a copy of the email on the server. You would then have to have another account reading the same email address but set up not to leave a copy. The first address would then pick up the mail, leaving a copy on the server and the second could then pick it up and delete it.

You are most likely to get into a mess like this if you have set up several accounts for members of your family and something is mistyped.

Of course, you may also have found a completely different way of achieving the same thing.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:42 AM

I was having that problem with the MSN e-mail software. Some of my messages got duplicated ten times. I finally gave up and started viewing my e-mail on the Web.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 11:46 AM

If the server doesn't download all your e-mails, it will do it all agian next time. Try accessing your mail on the net, and making sure that all is cleared from there.
Giok

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 01:53 PM

Louie -

Most email servers send the titles of all available messages first, then "fill in the text." If you select a message, it will take priority and be "rushed" through. Otherwise, it takes a bit, depending on connect speed for all of the message body to actually get to you.

If you're using Outlook Express and have Norton AV, the first copy is the "title" that gets there before the entire message gets downloaded. If you click it, the "real" message will be downloaded.

The second copy is the "real message," but it comes from your AV after the messge has been scanned.

I suspect that other browser/AV combinations may have the same effect.

Usually, if you "let it sit" for a while, the list gets "consolidated" and the duplicate copy will "go away" without action by you, at least for the OE/Norton combination. Thus if you're on a "permanent hookup" or "scheduled email check" that downloads mail on a schedule and gives it time to "clear" the AV before you go look at it you may never see the duplicate copies. If you only download the email when you're ready to look at it, they're a real p.i.a.

This happens only with "html" mail. A POP3 server generally sends each message sequentially, and you don't see it in the Inbox until the whole thing has arrived, via the route through your AV. With html service, they send the "list of messages," then - if you're using a web browser - all the advertising, and only then (unless you've clicked a message to open it) they send the actual messages. OE, and a few other "email browsers" get the "double listing."

Feel good about it. It proves your AV is working. Laugh with me. Most "free email" services don't support POP3 and/or "email browsers" like OE. We kept our "charter MSN" service POP3 - against constant MSN demands that we switch it to an html server, simply because MICROSOFT recommended using POP3 for security for businesses communicating with them. MSN just SLAMMED US with a switch to an html server. There are very few POP3 servers left anywhere because of the inability to put the ads on POP3.

You shouldn't see the double messages if you use your web browser to get your mail, but you have to put up with all the "dancing ads" and other garbage at the email websites that way (along with some other annoyances.) If it's popped up recently, it probably just means your email has been moved to a different server that doesn't support "email specific" browsers, possibly without telling you it was being done.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: GUEST,jennifer
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 04:24 PM

(Using Outlook Express) I find this only happens if I'm actually in the Inbox when I'm checking for emails. And if I go out of the inbox and back in then the extra copies disappear. It was annoying to start with when I tried deleteing the extra copy and both went! now when I check emails i stay in another folder, the number of messages appears, doubles, then goes back down and THEN i go in to check. Spend most of my time deleting Husband's spam anyway...

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:09 PM

The duplicates you get with a download usually will go away if you give them enough time to actually complete the download of the entire message. I have found a couple of "newsletter" sites that seem to keep sending repeats of the same things, but I suspect it's because they may have me on two different spam lists. In a case like this, the "sent" timestamp will at least be different on the two (or more) copies.

The delay in AV is the most common cause of dupes at the time of receiving mail, and usually one copy will "disappear" if you give it long enough. It's supposedly possible that the same message, delayed on one routing to you, might catch up with a copy that was re-sent via another route due to the delay on the first try.

Because email is normally kept in a database format, it is entirely possible to have the identically same message, as "permanent" copies, more than once. This should happen rarely with normal mail receiving, but it can be a real problem if you import a backup email store that contains copies of stuff still in your regular email folders. You can end up with many many duplicates that can be really tough to separate.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 06:15 PM

I use Eudora & Mailwasher. Never had this problem. My ISP, although having some problems, still has a POP server.

www.powerup.com.au - believe you can still buy accts, though they do now offer webmail access too.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 10:11 PM

Thanks to all of you for all your imput and I will explore your advice.I had DSL256 through Qwest with no problem,but when I went to DSL 1.5 through Qwest that's when the problem started.When I go to email they are all there and down loaded so I have no control and it doesn't matter who it's from 2 email identical.Thanks again Louie

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 12:55 AM

John, I know you did put one in quotes but I think you mean HTTP where you have said html.

I doubt that POP3 is going away soon except perhaps in free web based systems. Perhaps not surprisingly given MS's ways, the only email client I have which offers http as a mail protocol is OE. The others which include the lastest version of Thunderbird do not but all if not all do support both IMAP and POP3.

There does seem to be a way to get round this though. There is free software around that can enable that sort of web mail at least from some providers via POP3. Looking at the setup instructions for one, it appears it works as a POP3 server on the client machine (the email client sets the server to local host). One other thing I noticed was one of these programs offered a variety of modules for different providers. I assume from that, unlike IMAP and POP3 which are designed for the retreval of mail, there is no agreed standard for using HTTP for this purpose.

Some services that provide web based email also provide POP3. The Merak server my web host uses is one such example. No ads either.

I wouldn't have thought POP3 would make it impossible to add adverts. I'd have thought it more likely that those providing a service based on the web usually don't want an additional POP3 server sitting there waiting for requests.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: Justa Picker
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 01:12 AM

... we should all be so lucky ...   :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 03:42 AM

Jon -

You're right, that technically I should probably have referred to the http protocol. For whatever reason, MSN, despite containing "Microsoft" in it's genealogy, seems determined to be incompatible with as many Microsoft programs as possible. The have been complaining for several years that "MSN does not support POP3 mail," but until recently have managed to live with it. A week or so ago, they arbitrarily, without asking consent or giving any warning, moved our account to a new http server. We did, in fact, have to call MSN support to find out why nothing worked. It's a One-Way move, and cannot be returned to the former setup. Now they will have to change their complaint to "MSN does not support Outlook Express." The "new" MSN service looks EXACTLY like hotmail, and we suddenly have the same spam and virus "presence" on our MSN account that we previously saw only on our junk hotmail account(s).

You're also correct that I could modify and add to my own systems to "compensate." It looks a lot easier (so I'm a foolish optimist) to just find another email service that I can trust ... working on it.

Maybe the new beta Gmail POP3 is worth checking out.(?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 08:39 AM

That sucks John.

If it were me, I wouldn't want to continue with MSN anyway but that aside, you are probably better off looking for another service rather than installing and having an extra program running.

I'm afraid I've no recomendations for this type of service. I had a quick look at Gmail. My first thought was I don't think I'd be happy with 1 gig of email past email sat around there - OK you can delete and maybe I'm paranoid... I did find one site here while trying to find some info on Gmail who don't like the idea but I think they are anti-google anyway.

Jon

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 02:29 PM

Jon -

I don't think I'd care much for the present Gmail, but Google has made preliminary announcements about a new "POP3 Gmail" that's apparently in early beta tryout. All I've seen so far have been "news items," and I'll wait for the "tech reports" to see how/if it actually works as advertised before getting too "interested." Reports I've seen are that it's still in "limited beta" distribution, so not many people have seen it. It has been implied that the POP3 Gmail servers will not filter (translation = read) your email to place "related ads" in it, a common annoyance with current http Gmail.

A persistent annoyance for me is the refusal of "service providers" to tell you what you get before you sign up. I'd like to get DSL, but the only viable choice here has refused for more than a year to "show me the contract" before I sign up and accept delivery of their "service." About the only thing they'll tell me is that I have to go through Yahoo, which isn't exactly a plus. (That f**dco.com gives them a "brink of failure" rating isn't too reassuring either.)

MSN has been a fairly reliable service for us, for about 15 years now. The latest little p.o.s. is just something they've been trying to foist on us for the last 10. One of life's little trials...

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 03:59 PM

Thread Drift:

An "Urgent Critical Update" has just been released by Microsoft. ALL WINDOWS USERS need to take a look at it. I've posted a description at Tech: XP Service Pack 2, so I won't repeat it all here, but would urge everyone to take a look.

If you have WinXP-SP2, or if you're still using an old version of IE (IE5.5SP2 on WinME only) the particular hole that's fixed doesn't apply, although the older IE does have quite a lot of other holes you might want to think about fixing. Win98 and other users of older Win versions might also be interested in some of the "support notes" in the Tech Note that's linked in.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help needed - e-mail comes twice
From: hesperis
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 01:39 PM

Why not get your own domain and have control over your own email accounts? I have a basic hosting account for $10 a year including a .com domain. You can create email accounts, have a simple website, and total control of both. There are other companies that offer something similar as well, my business isn't the only one.