Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?

Subject: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:22 PM

"Aunt Jenny Died" is a traditional African American children's rhyme with multiple versions. Here is one common version:

Soloist: Aunt Jenny died.                .
Group:   How did she die?                
Soloist: She died like this.{The soloist makes a funny pose}

Group:   She died like this.{Members of the group try to exactly
                            imitate the soloist's pose}

Soloist: She died like that. {Soloist makes a new pose.}
Group:   She died like that. {The Group exactly imitates the
                              soloist's pose.
                                                                     {Soloist and group repeat the same sequence with other relatives and
end with these words:

Soloist:   My momma livin'.
Group:    Where she livin'.
Soloist
and group: Well she lives in a place called Tennessee.
          jump up Tenna Tennessee {entire group do indicated actions}
          jump back Tena Tennesse
          jump in Tena Tenness
          jump out Tena Tennessee
   
          Well I've never been to college
          I never been to school.
          But when it comes to boogie.
          I can boogie like a fool. {All do butt shaking dance}
         
          You go in, out, side to side. {All do ndicated actions}
          You go in, out, side to side.

(Repeat with new soloist}
---

For some time I've been trying to research the sources for this rhyme. I believe that I found a source for at least part of the floating verse "I've never been to college, never been to school". In her 1925 book "On The Trail Of Negro Folk Songs" (pp 71-72} Dorothy Scarborough includes this chorus and verse. I am using N__ for the "N" word as I have an adversion to it...

Chorus:
Old Jesse was a gemman {gentelman}
Among de olden times.

Verse 2
N__ never went to free school,
Nor any odder college.
An' all de white folks wonder whar
Dat N_ got his knowledge.
He chawed {chewed} up all de Bible.
An' den spat out de Scripter,
An' when he 'gin {begin} to arger {argue} strong,
He were a snortin' ripter!
                
According to Dorothy Scarborough, the song "Ole Jesse" is from Alabama. This song is not to be confused with another traditional song called "Uncle Jesse."

But I wasn't sure where the Aunt Jenny died theme came from. However, today I looked through a 1927 book I have called "Book of Games for Home, School, And Playground" {William Byron Forbush, Harry A. Allen; Chicago, The John C. Winston Co} and found a song called "Jenny
Jones" or "Jennia Jones". This song is in the chapter on singing games, and is said to have more than 30 verses. The words given are:

1. We've come to see poor Jenny Jones, Jenny Jones, Jenny Jones
   We've come to see poor Jenny Jones, How is she now?
2. Jenny is washing, washing, washing. etc
   You can't see her now.
3. Jenny is ironing etc

Refrain for 2-3
Very well, ladies
Ladies and Gentlemen, too

4-8 Jenny is ironing {both 3&4?},sewing, baking, sick, dead.

9. I think I saw a ghost under the apple tree.

This game is described as a circle game with one girl in the middle playing the part of Jenny.

Does anyone know this Jenny Jones song/game? Does anyone know the Aunt Jenny died rhyme? Any thoughts on the connections I've made between the two?

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:44 PM

Jenny Jones is an Anglo-Scottish children's game. I think it's been discussed here before, but if you can't find references via the onsite search engine I'll try to provide some when I have some time.

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:48 PM

I made a mistake and was incomplete in my description of how the Jenny Jones game is played. The book describes two girls in the center of the circle. The biggest girl iplays the role of the mother and the smaller is Jenny Jones.

Jenny hides behind her "mother" while the mother performs the actions for the chores. The children in the circle move "forward and back" while they sing. At the end of last verse all the girls making up the circle gives a loud shriek, and "Jenny" {or the ghost of Jenny Jones} runs out and tries to tag someone, who now becomes the new 'Jenny'.

The authors write that "Jenny Jones" was probably "Jenny my joe", or "joy".

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:52 PM

Malcolm,

I tried to look up "Jenny Jones" here and I got comments re: "My Sweet Jenny".

They're not the same song are they?

I would appreciate any information when you have time.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:41 PM

On "Jenny Jones," see Iona & Peter Opie, The Singing Game (Oxford, 1985, pp. 254-60).

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:47 PM

Another reference is William Wells Newell, Games and Songs of American Children (1884; rpt. Clearfield, 1992, pp. 63-66), s.v. No. 11: Miss Jennia Jones.

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 08:08 PM

Newell, in "Games and Songs of American Children," originally printed in 1883, has a section on Jenny, which seemingly started out in Scotland as Jenny (my) Jo (sweetheart). Since the description is earlier that the 1927 book, which apparently borrows from Newell, I reproduce newell's text:
In one version, here is his description of the game in which Jennia dies.
A mother is seated. Miss Jennia Jones stands behind her chair, or reclines on her lap as if lying sick. A dancer advances from the ring.

"I've come to see Miss Jennia Jones,
Miss Jennia Jones, Miss Jennia Jones,
And how is she today?"

"She's upstairs washing,
Washing, washing-
She's upstairs washing,
You cannot see her today."

The questions are repeated to the same air for every day of the week, and the reply is that Miss Jennia Jones is ironing, baking or scrubbing. She is then represented as sick, or worse, and finally is dead, which announcement is received with sighs of deep grief. The dancers of the ring then discuss the costume in which she will be buried:

"What shall we dress her in,
Dress her in, dress her in,
What shall we dress her in-
Shall it be blue?"

"Blue is for sailors
So that will never do."

"What shall we dress her in,
Shall it be red?"

"Red is for firemenn
So that will never do."

Question repeated for other colors-
"Pink is for babies,
So that will never do."

"Green is forsaken,
So that will never do."

"Black is for mourners,
So that will never do."

"White is for dead people,
So that will just do."

"Where will we bury her?
Under the apple tree."

After the ceremony of burial has been completed, the ghost of Miss Jennia Jones suddenly arises-

"I dreamt I saw a ghost last night,
Ghost last night, ghost last night,
I dreamt I saw a ghost last night,
Under the apple-tree."

The ring breaks up and flies with shrieks, and the one caught is to represent Miss Jennia Jones.

W. W. Newell, 1883 (1965, Dover), "Games and Songs of American Children, No. 11, pp. 63-66. Newell provides music for two tunes, one from Maryland, No. 174, pp. 243-244.

Newell remarks that the game was once a love play, in which the heroine pines because her cruel parents refuse an offer for her hand.

I think the Dover paperback is still available. An excellent old book.

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 08:28 PM

Northern Ireland version. A line of children advances singing the questions which are answered by another child, behind whom Jinny Jo is hiding.

Jinny Jo

Come to see Jinny Jo, Jinny Jo, Jinny Jo,
Came to see Jinny Jo, is she within?
Jinny Jo's washing clothes, etc., can't see her today.
Ironing clothes, etc.

Sick in bed, etc.
Dead and gone, etc.

What shall we dress her in, etc., Shall it be red?
Red is for soldiers-
Blue is for sailors-
Black for mourners-
White is for the dead and gone, dead and gone, dead and gone,
White is for the dead and gone so that will just do,

Ends up much like the Newell version, printed one hundred years earlier.

Alice Kane, ed. by Edith Fowke, 1983, "Songs and Sayings of an Ulster Childhood," pp. 76-77. "Jenny Jones" is one of the songs mentioned by James Joyce.

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 08:54 PM

"The Singing Game," Iona and Peter Opie, say the game was first reported from Edinburgh in the 1820s, as "Janet Jo."
Janet lies on her back behind the scenes. The father and mother stand up and receive the visits of the lover, who comes forward singing:
I've come to court Janet jo, etc.,
How's she the day?
The movements are continued, until "Janet jo's dead and gane," etc.
"She'll never come hame!" She is carried off, everybody weeping. Sometimes she revives, to their great joy.
Similar games are played in Canada, Australia and New Zealand, Spain and Russia.

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 09:30 PM

No previous discussion as such, it turns out; just a comment and a reply from me. This is number 1047 in the Roud Folk Song Index, with examples cited chiefly from England and Scotland (earliest appearance in print seems to be Chambers, Popular Rhymes of Scotland (1870 edn, 140-142: I presume the Edinburgh example mentioned above).

Also called Jinny Jo, Jilly Joe etc; Ann Gilchrist discusses it briefly in the Journal of the Folk Song Society (vol VI issue 22, 1919, 84-85) and demurs from Lady Gomme's idea that it is a "drama of domestic occupations and village custom" and Newall's (mentioned above) suggesting instead that earlier forms of the song may have been more narrative, including an account of the girl's death; and pointing out that Chambers' set makes it clear that Jenny is dead all the time and the reasons given why she can't be seen are delaying tactics such as occur in Edward and other ballads. Speculation, but interesting.

Related, though lacking the final dénoument and reduced to a "choosing colours" dialogue, is Jenny Jenkins (Roud 731), which has been discussed here a couple of times.

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 02:28 PM

Lyr. Add: Miss Jennia Jones
(see text above)

Subject: RE: Origin of Aunt Jenny Died?
From: Judy Cook
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 04:14 PM

We used to play a related game when I was young. Players sit in a circle. The leader starts with the statement to player on her left who questions her, then turns to the player on his left in turn. All players continue the action or contortion until it returns to them the next time when they *add* another action or contortion. The object is to not laugh, but maintain an air of solemn sympathy.

"Old Miss Onion Died."
"How did she die?"
"Closing one eye"
...
[next time round]
"Old Miss Onion Died."
"How did she die?"
"Mouth awry"
...
"Waving goodbye"
...
"One leg held high"


There might have been more; don't remember.

Did anyone else ever play that one? Guess I had a weird enough childhood.

Judy Cook

Judy Cook