Folk music in England.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 05:33 PM

mmmmmmmmmmmm   trying playing Rave On as a jig (123 123 123)

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: mandotim
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 05:02 PM

I live in North Staffordshire, and could go out and play somewhere more or less every night. Try this link http://webfolk.net/ and click on 'North Staffs Folk Diary'. The age range question is interesting; in the main session I play in there are lots of young people, with some more (ahem) seasoned players and singers. Another interesting thought; the younger players seem to see tunes that were pop songs when I was their age as 'traditional'...
Tim from 'Bit on the Side'

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:58 PM

OK somebody will wop my weasle sooner or later

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: jonm
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:05 PM

Certainly in the WMids there are fewer pubs which could support a folk club now they are practically restaurants.

It would also help if some of these clubs were more welcoming to newcomers. Gives a new dimension to cliquey.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 03:49 PM

Thanks Greg, that was the other thing I was going to say. Sessions and concerts and the like are very popular and range wildly, age-wise. Just because clubs are not does not mean that folk music is not. The venues change, the music carries on.
x e

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 03:01 PM

You can whop my Weasle if edges aren't being cut somewhere!

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:55 PM

In the Good Old Days, it was concentrated in the clubs, and easy to find. But it's still around, you know, or at least it is in NStaffs/S Cheshire/N Shropshire where I currently hang out. It's just there are a lot of different kinds of things going on.There are clubs, and a variety of sessions, some of which rotate mysteriously round different pubs. Plus concerts, and various other venue type events. Plus ad hoc get-togethers . Plus buskers. Plus community arts events with folky input. Etc etc. You've got to nose around, but it's bubbling away. When I was a lad, I played out seven nights a week socially,when I wasnt gigging. Now I don't choose to, but I easily could if I wanted.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:45 PM

radical cutting edges

Not a newbiem just a dig at the old farts who imagine they are so cool and still haven't learned to play their guitars after 30 years.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:55 PM

I always feel optimistic about dances, they are always good fun, you don't have to sit in silence and all kinds of people will come to a dance but wont sit in the folk club. As a result the age profile is wider.

Perhaps a dance with a sing around and or tune session in another part of the same building?

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: MuddleC
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 09:12 PM

One of the things I judge a folk club by is the ale it serves, and if it has REAL cider ...wahey!

Case in point, Rose & Crown in Warwick,good front bar, nice snug, fair sized back room, guest ciders.... excellent guests and local talent... then 'they ' juppyfied it , .........Tarquin, have yoou seen Tabatha.. oo sorry, my mobiles gone off, have you booked a table??? they do such good cous-cous here..
s-t-r-e-w-th

Please note the use of real cider is for medical reasons, i.e. throat lubrication.
use of crap chilled beer is not recommended, not even for dog-ends

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 08:16 PM

When anybody starts talking about "radical cutting edges", I tend to assume that they are recent arrivals; there isn't much that hasn't already been done (though the gear is a lot cheaper nowadays, so more people can afford to experiment). Although I enjoy the work of the young(er) performers, I rarely hear much from them I'd characterise as truly original, or which doesn't show obvious influences from older performers. That's the way it should be; change and continuity. You move forward rather more slowly than you like to think, but you do move forward.

It's certainly true, though, that the song clubs are largely the preserve of older people, and, as Eliza pointed out, that's just a demographic thing. Younger folk tend to prefer hanging out with their own age group. That doesn't mean that the one thing is better (or even particularly different) than the other. It's just the way of it.

I prefer the less formal pub sessions, where age is less relevant than engagement, and everyone can respect each other without worrying too much about who is in charge. You will, sometimes, get a bunch of students sitting in a tight circle in the corner with their backs to everybody else, playing the fashionable tune of the moment; but if they stick around, they grow out of that separatist snobbery and become part of the bigger picture.

Sheffield has always been quite good for that sort of thing. One reason I still live here.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: yrlancslad
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 07:34 PM

As a Brit, domiciled in California, I spend a couple of months most years back in my home county of Lancashire, usually Leigh/Wigan area and have no trouble at all going to a good (well attended) folk club every night of the week. In fact I often have trouble picking one of several on a given night. Wigan(2) Leigh, Westoughton, Coppul Chorley, Lymm,(2) Rainhill, Magull, Southport,Swinton, I could go on.In fact the whole North seems to be bursting with Clubs---and talent, some of it young and even good-looking!

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 04:53 PM

If there aint one where you are...start one please!

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 04:39 PM

I thought there were still a lot of folk cubs in and around Coventry -Bedworth, Brinklow Warwick - the Malt Shovel in Spon End, Burnt Post etc and still plenty of festivals in that part of the country. Partly its perception and asking the right people -if you asked the average Joe in the street where there was folk music in Beverley or Hull-they wouldn't know but it doesnt mean to say there is not a fantastic music scene here.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 04:25 PM

The radical cutting edge of the folk scene is back on the dance floor. This month I expect to go to two concert style clubs and two ceilidhs. Between two well attended clubs I doubt if there will be more than 5 people under the age of 40. At the ceilidhs about 20 percent of the combined audience will be under 25.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 04:15 PM

I've lived in Alaska for many years now. Years ago there were some great places where a folk performer like myself could sing on a regular basis and receive fair compensation. But now, there are so many young people who prefer to sing karaoke and listen to DJ's that live performance has greatly died out up here.

I will be visiting England next August and can't wait to experience your folk clubs and festivals. Broadstairs Festival has asked me to perform there and I'm getting some folk club gigs lined up as well. The UK still has a much more active folk scene than we have ever had here in the backwoods of Alaska.

As with all things there are cycles of high interest and low in folk music.   It is up to us to bring vitality and enthusiasm to this genre if we want it to flourish. So instead of bemoaning how sad the state of affairs might be, we should each do what we can to find little ways to make it better. Just my 2 cents.

See you there in August.

Mike

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: fat B****rd
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 03:39 PM

Vance Arnold !!?? You'll be telling me next that Peter Stringfellow used to run the Mojo Club !!
Also guest Jim, someone will tell you not to encourage thread drift.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 03:12 PM

I think Eliza talks great sense. the original folk revival was song based and led to a golden age of song and songwriting, but the next generation always has to do something different so now we have an age of dance, and that, as she points out needs different venues harder to find.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Compton
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 02:59 PM

Well. it certainly is an age thing in a lot of Staffordshire. Witness the average age of English Folk Dance and Song Society members around here. Almost certainly averaging 60 years now. They are aminly dancers-Little interest from anyone younger...as is song. What Albion could do with is Media interest...but the YOOF movement is more about Binge drinking, Boy Racers and Just bloody awful people. Like other Grumpy Old Men like me, how many long fro a return to some sort of value and national identity. Perhaps a glimmer of Hope with Celebrations of St. Georges day becoming more noticeable.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 02:06 PM

Move to Lincolnshire....Gainsborough...Market Rasen....not too far to travel to Hull....and there are so many mudcatters in this area!
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 01:56 PM

nah


hhhhhhhhhhhh

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 01:53 PM

Us older people enjoyed folk music in the back rooms of pubs from the 50s onwards. Without getting into sociology, that was how it developed at that time.

The first folk revival before WW1 was different.

Traditional music, dance and song is strong enough and some clubs will survive , but other modes of transmission and evolution will either emerge or be needed if access to traditional music, song and dance is to continue.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 01:30 PM

It is an age thing. There are not so many clubs any more because young people as a rule don't want to go to folk clubs (or more importantly set them up), they want to do other things, like-if you can believe it-form clubs! There are plenty of open-mic nights and events organised by young people around dancy things (Ross McKinlay from Bedlam does DJ/live music nights in venues around Matlock), but, as folk clubs were set up by people older than them for their own friends and social circles, young people sometimes have trouble fitting in and have started to do their own thing.
When I started in folk clubs I felt like the only young person there a lot of the time, especially performing where you feel like you are putting on a show for your parents' proud friends-like plays you did when you were little around the dinner table-and rather than conform to what was already there, people have started up other stuff. It certainly isn't as heady and focused as it was in the 60s, but that doesn't mean that it isn't happening. The big youth boom at the moment is in ceilidh dance music anyway, which unfortunately is inappropriate in most pub back-rooms.
x e

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 12:56 PM

It was good enough for Vance Arnold and the Avengers too! Joe should come back to his roots....

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 12:50 PM

If it's good enough for Martin Simpson, it's good enough for anyone!

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 12:48 PM

All you need to do is move - to Sheffield, and get the best of everything.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 12:13 PM

I don't think it's that bad, Pat, although it isn't what it used to be. Clubs I've played at recently - The Red Lion (Brum), Brewood FC, The Unicorn, and The Chase, in and around the West Midlands and Staffordshire, usually get decent turnouts.

The age time-bomb is the most worrying aspect of the players and audiences, though, as there's hardly anyone under 45-ish to be seen. Doesn't bode well for 2030 onwards.

Pete

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 11:35 PM

I know how u feel Pat.I remember the late taste clubs jammin till 6 AM ect going in at 8pm leavin for breakfast.many a good session.Much has changed and as i smoke i feel like an outcast,or as billy conelly says a snoutcast HEHE.But alas much has changed,i wish i knew the exact reason as folk music has a huge following.I can remember many years ago turning up at clubs on my Triumph chopper banjo across my back drunk as a lord and ridin home in the morning drunk as a lord,im not at all proud of that but it seemed we all did it then,smokin gettin bladdered playin and i have fond memories,its probably a sign of the times but the Triumph and Banjo survive still.And i have my memories.

Regards Tom and his magical Merlin banjo and The T140v chop.

Subject: RE: Folk music in England.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 10:22 PM

Pat, it's an age thing.

Subject: Folk music in England.
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 05 Jan 05 - 08:45 PM

Just back from a great ten day's in Coventry, Shakespeare country
and wonderfull.
I use'd to live in Coventry at a time when there where 17 folk
clubs, all doing great, there is now not one, I played twice in
Irish clubs,both packed, and with musicians I remember from the old days.
We were in Stonleigh for the boxing day performance of the Coventry
Mummers, which for my German friends was brilliiant.
My friends in the English Midlands tell me that there is no folk scene as such anymore, the folk clubs which still exist attract, with
few excemtions, only a handfull of people.
I find it so sad that in a country of brilliant performers that the
reallity should be so.