Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?

Subject: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Linda Mattson
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 03:20 PM

Could anyone give some suggestions? I'm in need of transfering recordings from cassettes to a longer-lasting medium. I have some unique recordings of trad musicians (who gave approval for recording them, by the way) from the mid-80s. I need a completely new stereo system anyway, but perhaps I can start with one or two pieces of equipment. I also have a Mac iBook with a large hard drive.

Thanks!
-Linda

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 03:36 PM

In a nutshell

Output from the tape player to "Line In" on the PC... use some kinda recording software (I prefer Cooledit myself) to record the songs one at a time... burn the saved songs to CD...

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 03:58 PM

I Have a Cassette deck in my computer, a gift from the boys for just this purpose.

Don

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 04:40 PM

Here's my setup:
Components;
SETUP Hardware required:
PC with soundcard and soundcard drivers loaded (some modern motherboards come with 16 bit sound and that may suffice).
Tapedeck connected to:
Amplifier (Amplifier is optional - see below)e
Amplifier headphones out jack connected to
stereo jack adaptor regular size to mini jack size
stereo minijack and cord connected to line-in receptacle of sound card.

SETUP: Software required:
I am using CoolEdit Lite but unfortunately CoolEdit has been purchased by Adobe which has offered their version of the software in an expensive one version only. You may have audio software already which came with your CD burner or DVD burner. Nero has a version. There is an open-software version available over the net called 'Audacity'. I have it for linux but haven't used it much.

If you have a tapeplayer but no amplifier, you may use either the headphone output jack of your tapeplayer or the output RCA jacks on the back, using a patchcord which has RCA at one end and a minijack on the other.

PROCEDURE:
I am digitizing many kinds of tapes, classical prerecorded stereo with Dolby to mono personal voice messages. So I play a tape into my computer, set it on record, and view the output in the software, which brings up a kind of 'oscilloscope' signal in windows for Left and Right Tracks. I have to adjust for maximum volume, I want the maximum volume of the signal to go the maximum limit of the software for signal to noise reasons (exactly the same principle as if I was converting an LP to tape). I have also found that even on high quality prerecorded classical cassettes, that left track and right track may need level adjustments, and one side of a cassette may not match the other side.

Unlike the procedure of converting LPs to digital, tapes do not skip, do not crackle or pop. I check for Dolby. If the tape isn't Dolby, I do not play it back Dolby. I personally do not know of any 'corrective' software to make the tapes sound better. I takes 'em as they is and there's a lot of good music on them, even if they are not Dolby, even if they are 45 years old.

If I'm converting music, I sample stereo at 44,100 Hz. If it is spoken word, I may reduce it to mono at 22,050.

A lot of it may get converted to mp3 or aac, but I've got a large hard drive dedicated to storing the stuff. Rough order of magnitude: 1 hour of stereo hi fi will fit into 1 gig of memory.

Clear as mud? E Mail me.
Did I say somethin' stoopid? Please let me know as I'm intending to do this to a couple hundred cassettes.

Meanwhile, my cassettes have held up very well. CDs and DVDs are less certain. I think there is more confidence in them out there than is warranted. Magnetic storage has proven to be very good. I would even venture to buy an additional hard drive as backup, and turn out CDs as needed but maintain the info on the hard drive. As time goes on, today's DVDs will give way to other even denser media.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 05:36 PM

Plus there are tons of threads on the subject here. Sometimes talking about LPs, but it's exactly the same.

As for hardware:

Xitel's INPort
PlusDeck

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 05:41 PM

PlusDeck also have this one which lists international dealers. Including Canada

PlusDeck Online

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 05:48 PM

All you need to make high quality audio recordings is an iMic, which is a device that plugs into your USB port and allows you to connect microphones or a line feed(such as the output from a tape deck) to your computer, and Rogue Amoeba Audio Hijack which will allow you to record and edit any kind of digital input(free demo, and only $16 if you like it)--

The recording quality for iMic is a lot better than the built in input(which is an option)--only thing, after you've converted the tapes to digital, and burned the CD, you should keep the tapes--don't ever throw away the original source material, nothing else will ever be as good--

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Linda Mattson
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 06:22 PM

Thanks to you all for your suggestions! !
I'll get busy...
-Linda

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 07:03 PM

mTed
With respect, I believe the imic is mainly for iMACs which do not have a line input. It is a small A/D converter device and is not necessary if you have a sound card with a line input. I suspect it is no better than a good sound card such as a Santa Cruz board or SoundBlaster board.

LPs take more finagling than cassettes to digitize, and possibly more processing as well.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 08:04 PM

Robomatic,

Ummm, why would this be so?

LPs take more finagling than cassettes to digitize, and possibly more processing as well.

To me they should require the same about of work, either way. The suggestion I made, the INPort (which I bought), comes with software (LPRecord) for the Win Machines, to record the input, and save it to disk. Also, it has LPRipper which will separate the single file created by LPRecord into separate tracks. Then you can put each of those WAV files onto the CD with your CD Burner. So it's really easy to use.

With appropriate software on the Mac, the same device could be used as it plugs into the USB port. It also comes with 30 feet of cable to plug into the Stereo's Aux Out jacks.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 08:05 PM

Linda - IF you are going to get a new Stereo , have a look for one witha Mini Disc - That will get your Casette into a digital format a lot easier !!

Sits back with smug expression and waits to be shot down in flames by someone who knows what they are talking about !!

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: GUEST,Dave Ruch
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 08:13 PM

Don - Sounds like your setup is exactly what I need now that I finally have a CD burner on my new computer. What do you mean when you say you have a cassette deck IN your computer?

Linda - I wonder what those recordings are that you have of trad musicians?

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 09:56 PM

Mr. Meixner -

Re: I Have a Cassette deck in my computer

When one of your boys is around - could you PLEASE have them explain, into this thread - make, model, hardware, processer, burner, etc, etc....

This is GOOD stuff...please share!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 09:56 PM

Dave, look at my links for the PlusDeck2. I think that's what he's talking about.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 10:34 PM

I did a search on the Plusdeck2 and found a lukewarm review under PCMag. And a bad review here

Briefly put, it introduces the convenience of a tape deck occupying a 5.25" slot in your computer. The cassette loads like an auto cassette player, end-in. Apparently the deck cannot recognize the different types of cassette media, more sophisticated shelf units distinguish between standard and low-noise tape bias. More important than this, it doesn't come with Dolby noise reduction. The software it comes with is supposed to recognize the gaps between tracks on cassettes so that you pop in a cassette, the computer plays it, and turns out separated tracks such as a CD would come with. This would be a big timesaver if it works. I purchased an AIWA unit which was supposed to do this with LP to CD conversions, and long story short, it didn't work for me. I think the automatic track recognition works when you have songs separated by silence, and doesn't work when you want to break up Symphonies by movement, or where concept albums dovetail the outros of one track with the intros of another.

As to my comment that LP to CD takes more finagling, you have the extra noise with LPs, the problems with skipping on older well used records, and if you do not have an amplifier you need a pre-amplifier to handle the signal output of the turntable, which is a different level from the signal output of a cassette player. I tried a preamp and got a low level tone which I couldn't completely filter out, so my final setup had me connecting the LP turntable to a standard shelf amplifier and drawing the signal from the headphone jack. I've been satisfied with the sound I can capture this way.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 11:05 PM

Typically yes, Automatic Track Recognition software depends on silences between tracks.

I see what you mean then about the LP to CD vs Cassette to CD takes more finangling. I assumed that you have to have the turntable with appropriate amp so that you start with the same levels as you would with a cassette. Did your Pre-Amp have a Phono/Turntable input? If not it wouldn't have worked well as it might not have the proper filters to work with a turntable.

The low level tone you were talking about is probably a ground loop hum. The INPort apparently has a gizmo within to eliminate ground loops.

To me, both the Cassette Deck AND the LP Turntable would be connected to a system with Aux Out, which would then be plugged in to the Line-In of a standard sound card, or the INPort which I bought to do this with.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 11:25 PM

Sorry to be late to this very useful thread! Thanks.

Since I used do a wee bit of collecting I learned a couple of great lessons about recording and playing back and/or converting audio-images at the best quality.

99.99% of prerecorded cassette is high quality and what gets playback at the same level is a decent tape deck. I have a 'Nakamichi' basic model, and never realized how hi fi prerecorded tape can be! It is a surprise to notice how soft and rounded analogue audio sounds as opposed to the prerecorded harder digital imagery!

Next to digitize with the best S/N either go via Mini Disc - yup its stoopid stoopid but hey - or like me 10 years ago, a DAT tapedeck.

Now if you want to edit whats on DAT or MDisc then getting a Creative Labs - 'external USB '- sound card is the ideal solution since that provides very hi fi results but allows you to use the massive resources of the modern PCs. I know the older setups used the internal card and I too have an old machine like that, but the quality of the image is often spoiled with a pop or hiss that was not noticable on the old type amplifiers and speakers. Today all has changed, and one almost has to buy a purpose-made PC to get similar results.

SoundBlaster OC know all about the tech side of todays audio and accordingly responded with this Audigy NX. BTW This soundcard has both
Coax(SPDIF) and Optical in/out ports already set up- as well as the standard ports, also if you have USB 2 it will do both record and play ..ie Computer based multitrack SW apps.

Final suggestions, get good quality connecting cables, and if you have to paste live into anything, absolutely get decent input gear.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 11:45 PM

Garg...

From Thinkgeek.com... the PlusDeck

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/6908/

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 09:32 AM

iMic I think may have originally been to get around the fact that the G4 (which I bought in Oct 2000) was the first Mac EVER to not have direct audio in-put.

HOWEVER, it's superior to an internal because it totally eliminates machine noise.

It works on Macs and PCs.

Linn

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 12:20 PM

Robomatic--with all due respect, she has an iBook--

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 12:34 PM

Re: LP to CD conversion: I tried twice to use inexpensive pre-amps bought in electronics venues. Both times got the low tone even when I attempted to ground everything. My current setup is to feed both LP turntable and cassette player into an amplifier unit just as in any standard stereo configuration of the 70's through 90's before the more unitized media centers gained popularity. I take my signal off the headphone jack because it can be adjusted for stereo balance, which I have found a lot of stereo cassettes need. I have learned that off of many prerecorded cassettes both overall signal strength and balance can vary. And even LPs can have a different overall signal from one side to the other.

A couple of you have mentioned utilizing a sound card outside of the PC box, the Soundblaster external and the iMIC. Respectfully, I don't believe that either is essentially better than using a bus-mounted soundcard. I have yet to notice that I'm picking up any 'noise' from the internal digital components. The iMIC in particular is a small unit designed to fill a gap left by some iMACs not having line-in ports. My brother had to get one for his iBook. It performed quite well and we were happy with its functioning, but it's no better than a good soundcard, and all the external stuff needs its own power cord and a place to put it etc. etc. However, when I'm digitizing sound in my PC I'm not doing anything else with it. PCs and MACs operate in multi-tasking modes and you can in theory surf the web, write a letter, and balance your checkbook while you're inputting music. I avoid this. I think the same thing goes for converting wave format to mp3's. You also want a computer that's relatively powerful. My AMD Athlon 900 MHz is several years old but well up to the task of turning out good digital hi-fi conversion. I have a bargain basement unit with a Celeron knock-off which can't digitize the voice of an old guy complaining about the soup.

As to cards, I've used the Turtle Bay Santa Cruz card and been real happy with it. I was converting r2r's and LPs, all of them hi-fi circa 1960's and 1970's. I splurged on a Soundblaster Audigy card, and while it was in theory more powerful, I found it's softare intrusive and it turned out perfectly satisfactory recordings, but not noticeably any 'better' or even different from the Santa Cruz card. I put together a more powerful computer with a fancy motherboard which came with multi-speaker sound, so I didn't even have a sound card in that one, and that turned in pretty good conversions. I think what it boils down to is that modern computers are so fast that stereo Analog to Digital conversions are not much of a challenge.

One thing I haven't gotten into is fixing the cracks and pops that come with LPs. I'm told there is softare for this. CoolEdit has the ability to 'subtract' certain frequency spectrums, so I have tried sampling a silent period on the LP, then 'subtracting' it from the musical part. What I got was - interesting, but not better.

And I sure agree that old cassettes can turn out some very nice tunes. There is more to fine music than a high signal-to-noise rating. It can also be a big time money saver. Think of all the bitching the recording companies are doing over downloaded music, yet in my parents' house for years there were hundreds of LPs and cassettes they had got out of the habit of listening to because they were using their CD player. I'm sure there are millions of homes with the same underutilized resource. If you have a prerecorded cassette that you're not using, it's a waste of a legitimate musical resource.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 12:38 PM

One quick note re: external conversion units. The iMIC is relatively small and I think it draws its power from the USB port and doesn't need its own plug in.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: 12string growler
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:02 PM

All this gunk about inputting to PC. If you are going to buy a new sound system, think about buying a CD burner to go with it. I use a Pioneer CDR509, had it for over 4 years now. I never had a duff burn. You can connect it to your pre amp (receiver) using coax digital, optical digital, analogue RCA sockets, and it will record which ever source is selected on your pre amp. The only slight downside is that you need to buy "Music" or "Audio" blank cd's, the cheep ones for the PC won't work. However they are normally only a few pence more.
There is a pro audio company in the UK that produces a dervivative of this deck as a Mastering CD writer for if you had recorded yourself or your band.

Hope that gives you something else to consider (or confuse).

Chris

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:39 PM

Another good thread on this topic to trace. There are a few others out there, including some with info about the software, because once you get the music into your computer, you have to do something with it so it will sound good on the CD. That's where I'm struggling right now--converting very old cassette tapes to digital files and burning them to CDs.

Tech: recording onto computer from cassette
Tech: LP's to CD
Help: Transferring tape or vinyl to CD
Tech: Tapes to CDs
Help: transfer from cassettes to cd-rw
Help: Vynyl [sic] to Cd: Advice requested

There are more, but they go back far enough that the software and machines have changed so much the advice will be quite dated.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:07 PM

Hi Garg and Dave,

THINKGEEK is the way to go.

Plus Deck it is.

I'll post the make and model when I back to my computer.

Don

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:53 PM

RE: 12 string growler's recommendation on an audio burner.

My impression is that they cost more and give you less control. Especially if you want to break your songs into isolated tracks.

The music CDs are a kind of gimmick to get you to pay more. They are no different in quality from data CDs (although there is a range in quality among all CDs). Certain CD players and writers are configured to only work with Music CDs which have some kind of digital stamp within, so you are more limited in the price range and selection. My car, my regular CD players, all play data CDs that have been recorded via computer.

I agree that your computer is tied up. It's a choice. Some folks have more than one computer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Linda Mattson
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:15 PM

Thanks, everyone. I'm lost in all the tech talk. I'm only a Mac person. I think my iBook only has inputs for USB and Firewire. It also has an earphone jack, telephone and internet (whatever the wider telephone looking jack is called) and a CD/DVD read only drive. I also have a LaCie CD burner, but I'm having trouble getting it to work - maybe the software. I've only got OS 9.2 so I'm going to have up upgrade to 10.

When a sound card is mentioned, is that only in PCs?

So far it sounds like I should investigate the iMic or try the direct approach from cassette deck through receiver to a CD burner. Of course, in the future I'd also like to get my LPs on CD.

Thanks to all you generous MudCatters!
-Linda

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:30 PM

   One thing I haven't gotten into is fixing the cracks and pops that    come with LPs. I'm told there is softare for this.

A friend of mine, Kevin Evans, runs his own recording studio. I trust his judgement on the subject of audio. He told me the product to try is call Clean.. Have a look for it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 07:54 PM

Clean 2.0 and CleanPlus must be British programs. I'm not having any luck finding reviews of it here on U.S. sites. Is there a more recent program in this family with a different name, or something comparable here in the U.S.? It looks like this program came out several years ago.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 12:12 AM

If you're having trouble getting your Lacie CD burner to work, get one of those DVD's that runs as cleaning program--mine stopped working and Lacie tech support suggested that I try it--it worked!
Ignore every one else, and do what I suggested, Linda--it is cheap, easy, and will be good--

You have a build-in soundcard that plays CD's/DVD's but in order to record the sound from your cassette, you need to some sort of analog audio input(I think you do have an input for a digital mike)--used to be the only way to do this was to install a soundcard--but you can't install one in an iBook, though because you have no card slots--not problem because now there are USB interfaces like iMic that eliminate the need for a soundcard--even folks who do serious computer-based recording and sound editing now no longer use soundcards, and instead use USB audio interfaces like mBox--

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 12:44 AM

No idea what a mBox is but I bet its a close relative of the Soundblaster Audigy NX.

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2NX/

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 01:18 AM

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 01:24 AM

Yep--pretty much, except that this one comes with ProTools software, and a hefty price tag--even at that, it's a lot cheaper than the Audiomedia PCI card that I bought ten years ago--and the software does way more--

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Gypsy
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 04:27 PM

Cakewalk's Pyro program is pretty easy to use, and cleans up my old tapes very well. Have been having a field day transfering ancient, one of a kind tapes to disc.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:27 PM

When I went home, I looked at the box. IT's from Pinnacle Systems. Seems to have ties to Steinberg over in Germany.

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From:
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 06:28 PM

And apparently, it's up to version 4.0

Subject: RE: Tech: Restoring Audio
From:
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 05:29 PM

There is a useful document on Restoring Audio Files (ie from LPs or Cassettes, or Reel to Reel), at Audio Restoration Primer

Subject: RE: Tech: Transfering music on cassettes to CD?
From: Bert
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 05:42 PM

Get a good equalizer to filter out tape hiss. (and demagnetize the tape heads of course)

Try swapping the polarity of the mains lead on your cassette player if hum is a problem.

Try recording with differing output levels from your cassette player. High output levels may have some distortion.