Tech: Web problems

Subject: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 03:58 PM

I was happy with the performance of my W98SE, ETrust antivirus, ZoneAlarm,
400MMX, PII, 128meg computer, but then things started going wrong.
I started to have trouble staying on the web, getting kicked off often, and this escalated
until it was happening every 10mins or so. The usual scans revealed nothing, but then my
antivirus announced a new engine and stopped supporting the old one. After 3 weeks of
trying I managed to download it (Getting kicked off, you see) and it made no difference to
my problem.
Ah, I thought, spyware. Downloaded Spybot, used it, and then could only get as far as
my server, the machine saying I was on the web, browsers and updates saying I wasn't.

OK, Drastic measures, so I formatted and reinstalled, twice, but no difference
Took the CPU to my supplier, who put Norton through it, reported absolutely no virus,
which is rare.
OK, well overdue for an upgrade, and as I have recently replaced power-unit and
hard-drive, I bought and installed a 2.6 Asrock mother-board and PIV chip and a new
modem, just to be sure. Formatted and reinstalled W98SE (until I could get XP at a good
price.)

Great, everything back to normal, except that the built-in video-card is rubbish compared
with my old on, which doesn't fit the new MB.

ARRGHH... Slowly the same problems came back..... And spread to my son's computer,
which uses the same connection, possibly because he'd borrowed one of my Zip disks.

First sign was that ZoneAlarm went onto 'stop all internet activity' and wouldn't come
off it, so that was uninstalled, along with ETrust antivirus, and I installed PC-Cillin,
which was bundled with the MB, and has its own firewall. Problem fixed.

ARRGH. Last night I got kicked off three times, and in the end, could not get past my
server. Once again, the computer says I am on the web, the browser can't find anywhere,
and the update programs say I'm NOT on the web.

I've been told, by an experienced user, that there are virus' that cannot be removed, and
the only recourse is to throw away the hard-drive. I've also been told that that ain't so.

I don't know what to do next, apart from discarding a new hard-drive and installing
WXP. I hope I can get on long enough to post this pathetic plea for advice.

And then get on long enough to print the replies.

Regards, Chris. P.S. It works fine off the Web.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 05:59 PM

It sounds as if you've got a web browser 'hijacker', which can be a pain to shift.

Certainly your hard drive isn't faulty, but the only reliable cure is to fdisk and reformat your drive, and re-install your operating system, making sure that you've installed all the protection software before you attempt to go online.

If you can download it, 'HijackThis' from Soeperman Enterprises Ltd. is a good programme for finding such nasties, though you will need to edit the system registry and delete bogus system files to clear them completely.

Download website...

If you have a broadband connection, a router is a good idea, because it gives you firewall protection straight out of the box...

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 11:11 PM

Thank you, Bernard. I tried to download Hijackthis but it comes down without a .dll file. I tried with both Opera and IE, but the same file is missing in both cases.
However, Spybot and a scan from Computer Associates reveal no important spyware, although Spybot has one it can't remove. Perhaps that is it.
I seem to be having no trouble at the moment, except that this is the second reply, the first disappeared into ESpace.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 05 - 11:46 PM

Is there some way you can borrow a computer that you could run from your location to see if it is the connection that is the problem?

If your phone lines are "noisy," then the phone company needs to do something about them. I was having the same problems you describe (getting knocked off-line all of the time) when I first moved in to this house almost three years ago. The neigbhor said it was a chronic problem in this area, and it took several calls to the phone company to get them to do some trouble-shooting. Now I have DSL and the problem is long gone.

Good luck.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Max
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 12:03 AM

I highly recomend Spybot to solve these problems I'll bet its spyware on your machine. Make sure you have ALL the windows updates too.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 12:45 PM

Gurney, which DLL file is reported as missing? My understanding is that it doesn't require anything special (it's a self-contained executable), so you could be missing a vital system DLL - which may have been caused by spyware.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:48 PM

If he reinstalled, the DLL should have come back. But if not, you can do a search by simply putting the name of that file into Google or wherever (or visit the Microsoft Knowledge base for more info about why it went missing) and find a copy to download. I've had to do that occasionally.

I added a new program to my routine for spyware and malware. It was recommended from the Spybot site, and has to do with malicious Active-X stuff. It's called Spyware Blaster and is also free for private and educational use.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 02:11 PM

Thanks Guys, all taken on board for further attention.

The HijackThis .dll file is MSVBVM60.dll

The computer seems to work fine when first booted, although it is sometimes hard to get to my server in that it will dialtone will sound, but instead of the 'warbling' ring it gives a steady buzzing.

My boy's computer will give no trouble when connected to my phone jack, even though he is using a long phone lead. He did have the same trouble after using one of my Zip disks, but a format of his computer fixed that. Suggestive, eh?

Time seems to be an element of the trouble. If I'm browsing a LONG thread, often I'm not able to post afterwards. It seems to me that the problem is that I'm still in there, but on a VERY slow connection. Last night it took over one hour to download 15mins of windows updates, and the IE update wouldn't download at all.
My chip is a 2.6gig, default clocked. Exactly the same symptoms as my previous 400meg chip. No faster, either.

The Spybot forum FAQ says the file that won't destroy has been fixed by a Windows update, and is no problem anyway.

Now to see if I can post this.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: nutty
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 02:46 PM

I know this is basic but have you checked through cont+alt+del to see what's running when you have these problems???

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 03:59 PM

There is a little program that I have used to set up what may load when I turn on the computer. It was taking a long time because when you installed a new program it went ahead and put itself on the start menu. If I can find the link (I have posted it here at Mudcat before) I'll send it along. It's a little freeware program.

There are tasks that once the computer starts them, it doesn't want to be interrupted until finished. I learned a long time ago that if I follow a link and it leads me to a PDF file and Acrobat Reader opens, to just leave it alone. If I try to go back or click the X to delete the browser window, the computer will crash. I think this is a problem with Acrobat and how bossy the program is. If you've started downloading a program and the computer hasn't finished, it will misbehave if you're impatient.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 03:05 AM

Thanks again. The time element mentioned above seems to bear no relationship to the length of time the computer has been booted, just how long I've been on the web or net. For instance, this computer has been going for 3 hours and I just got straight on, and to me this seems to indicate that it isn't a heat problem. In any case, the previous chip was showing the same problem, and I've also changed the modem. These intermittent problems are irritating, aren't they. (That was an attempt at understatement.)

Nutty, no, I haven't checked through CTRL-ALT-DEL what is running, never thought of it, although as a Windows user I use the proceedure often. It is usually 'Explorer' that is not responding, and I don't know what that is. I usually browse with Opera, so I didn't think it would be IE, and WE is not something that usually runs, is it? Must be something in Windows, I thought. Another thing to try. Thanks, Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 03:07 AM

See, working perfectly, but I'm not holding any hope that it will stay that way.   Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 06:55 AM

Is your firewall configured correctly? They rekon these days that the average time between going on line and having someone attempting to hack you is about 20 mminutes.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: GUEST,Snuffy
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 09:04 AM

My PC at home (Sin 98) is on dial-up. When I first boot it up, the connection will last for an hour or more, but later on it can last only a few minutes or even seconds. A "warm" reboot usually restores things to normal, but I've no idea why.

Like Gurney says, it's a time thing, but this one does seem to bear a relationship to the length of time since the computer was (re-)booted

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 12:23 PM

Sin 98? Is that a good one? Where can I get some (and is it legal?)

:-D

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 03:17 AM

The other 97 are nice, too.

Nothing has improved here, but the last time I thought the problem occurred, it was Mudcat that had gone down as I was composing a tirade.
Still trying this and that. i'll try to download IE updates now, they wouldn't last time I tried.

My boy just had some trouble, using my phone-jack.   Hmmmm.   Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:44 PM

I have said on other threads and will say it again here! Don't discount potential memory problems. I have seem lots of occasions where odd behaviour, particulary when it gets worse as time progresses, being down to a rogue chip. If you have more than one stick (or one pair if it is SIM) try removing one (or a pair) and seeing if things get better. If you have only one replace it. Doesn't cost much nowadays.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: treewind
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:55 PM

Have you checked the quality of your phone line?
I've had that, and it drastically degraded the internet connection.
Possibly symptoms:
- The "buzzing noise" you mention
- The same problem with either of two different systems connected to the same line.
- Does your system perform well when you're not on line?
- Do you get a lot of background noise on the phone during voice calls?

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM

I still think that's a good suggestion. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Jan 05 - 01:43 AM

Dave, as I said at the top, I replaced my mother-board/Chip/Ram with new,(just one stick, 256,) in the early days of my problems, because I was working up to getting WXP, and I had a new hard-drive and the power-box and the modem is also new, along with the MBoard, so I have a near-new computer.
Mind you, a brand-new outfit would only have cost twice as much, with XP and lots more included, and I wouldn't have had to find new drivers for my scanner and it's Scuzzi-port and my printer, etc. I just don't like throwing things away.

Treewind, the phone-line was checked by Telecom (signalling from their problem-desk, not physically)about a year ago, but it's on the list of possibilities. I also thought of changing the jack-point, as that has electronics in it, too. My next-door neighbour has just had a new line put in from our shared post, but I can't talk to him about it without an interpreter. My jack is the house master-jack.

Latest symptom: I reinstalled Windows again, and that made a file go missing in my virus-killer so that it wouldn't download updates. This seems to have fixed itself. The .dll file doesn't seem to have come back, at least, 'find' couldn't find it. Maybe it isn't a normal W98SE file.
CNTRL-ALT-DEL didn't show anything unusual after the web went down, and only two programs different after a reboot, one of which was Opera and the other changes with the programs open.

Now to see if this will post. Regards, Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 03:47 AM

Just revived this to let you know: As SRS and Treewind suggested, I did something about the phone line. Found out that my jack wasn't the master but a slave, my wiring is an ould tyme system (4 not 2 wire) and the line to the master was pretty dirty, with the copper wires oxidised where they make contact (it is wet under the house in winter, but the jack is inside the house.) I cut off the wire and re-made the contacts and disconnected all 3 slave jacks, partly because I couldn't remember how to wire them!
For the last three days I have had no trouble, and long may the situation prevail!
In my own defence I can only say that we had no trouble with the phones at all, and my boy had no trouble for most of the time using my jack, when he did have trouble, he had been using my downloads zip-disk so it looked like a worm or virus.

Like a lot of folk songs, the moral comes last. First, remake the connections of the phone line, which will involve crawling in a crawl space to trace them (reticulation wire to master jack, master jack to slave jack) before you start to throw money at the problem.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm better equipped to PREVENT problems now, better equipped to CURE problems, and the information I've gleaned is in the paragraph above.

All I need is a harddrive and case to build a whole 400mmx computer out of the bits I changed in the old one.
Except the modem. I'm going to have a business computer that isn't/can't be on the web!   Regards, Chris.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:36 AM

A recent Computer mag article suggested that this level of PC built from your excess components can be used to make a CD-self-booting MP3 player that runs on a modern version of DOS - and thus works acceptably for the level of hardware involved - doesn't even need a hard drive! - just add some speakers or headphones. (8X Cd player)

You can also use it to boot a Linux standalone firewall (needs a HD though) - you just add a few network cards - don't need extensive other gadgets - not even a KB & Monitor - for once setup you adjust it thru your web browser via the network...

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: pavane
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:49 AM

That hardware firewall looks like a good idea for my old machine, once I have got the new one fully set up.

Main problem with the old one is that it will occasionally lock up completely, so that not even ctrl-alt-del would work. Theory was that it was a conflict, but I have never managed to track it down. It only ever happens when typing or scrolling, and ONLY in Microsoft Windows applications. It has NEVER hung up when using DOS, nor when using non-Microsoft apps.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Bassic
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:58 AM

My techie mate that fixes my PC when I have the occasional problem once told me that as an excersise in problem solving, the tutor on the course that he took, messed up all telephone wall sockets in the room. A good hour or so of swaping components and scratching heads went by with no success, all the time the tutor was sitting silently grinning at the front of the class.
Eventualy someone thought to check the quality of the phone signal. His point to the class of future computer fixers.........when problem solving......."always start at the wall"!!! I suppose its like with other electronic faults.....always check the fuse first before throwing the appliance away. Well spotted SRS and TW!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 12:54 PM

There are some good solutions to phone setup when you're using computers and phones on the same line. Dedicated jacks, for one. I have DSL coming in through my phone line, and I have a big empty attic where I can walk around (through the trusses) and run wires. I have a "66 block" and have run a "star" pattern. The phone line comes into the block, and all of the jacks run from it. The block was given to my be an engineer friend who buys these things for pennies when local electronics places do auctions of oddball leftovers. This talks about the equipment. Looked like it had a nice set of instructions for setting it up.

Here's a page on phone wiring and the "home run" or "star" method.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 01:59 PM

Goodness. What do you call that reversal of letters among words? It's not your typical typo. "my be" should be "me by." My dyslexic brain at work!

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 04:46 AM

Aaaagh! the problem is back, and with the boy's machine too. He only gets kicked off whilst a page is loading, and has to redial. I either only get as far as my server, or sometimes I can't get that far. But often, everything works PERFECTLY.
As I said above, only the master jack is connected, and we are both using the same phone extension cable now, into the same jack, with only either computer plugged into it. A long cable snaking down the hall, not popular in certain quarters.
He got kicked off about 7 times last night, I took 5 goes to get on tonight. He tells me that he does sometimes get my problem.
Back to the drawing board.
I do wonder if it would be a good idea to have the computers on different virus-killers. The ETrust is due for renewel.

Well, at least we know (we hope we know) that it is a phone-wire or ISP problem (they say it isn't them) so an electrician pal is coming in next week to rewire right up to telecom's post, new two-wire system used here in NZ, different to the US system.

The washing machine broke down 2 weeks ago, not worth repairing, I lost a filling and had to go to to the dentist today, and the cooker stopped working tonight. I wonder if there's anything in paranoia?

On the other hand, I did fix the motor-mower, and the cooker should be not too much trouble. Mechanical, electrical, goooood! Electronic, bad. BAD!

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 09:53 AM

What is a cooker?

Maybe there's a malignant satellite orbiting over your house, beaming through the roof and nuking your appliances. Try putting a layer of aluminum foil throughout the attic. That'll fix 'em!

;)

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 02:34 PM

The one thing not mentioned in any detail here, that is a known problem that we've seen with dial-up in the US, is primarily a matter of traffic at the ISP point.

Back in the early days ... of our use of dialup, we had frequent "drops" similar to what has been described. We found that when too many people tried to hook up to the same "phone number" the ISP would automatically disconnect the one that had been "inactive" the longest. Unfortunately, they seemed to judge activity based only on whether you hit "submit" (Enter) occasionally, so they did not see a long download as "an activity." We became quite accustomed to redialing - without changing where the page was pointed - and learned that most times the download would pick up the connection and continue the download.

It will likely be nearly impossible to get an ISP to admit this happens; but if there is any choice of the 'phone numbers you can dial up to make the connection, using a different one offers the scant possibility that you can find one that the bulk of the users haven't discovered yet. Where there's a choice of numbers, telling all your "friends" what good results you get with the one that doesn't work is probably a little unsporting, but actually has been known to help.... or you can tell them all "there's this new number" and maybe enough will leave the one you're using...

We still get an occasional "drop," but nothing like it used to be. And our ISP still won't admit there's a problem; but changing the dial-up number was an immediate improvement.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 05:27 PM

I remember what John describes being a problem in the early days of my ISP (it has changed names several times, and has improved with each)--I'm talking maybe 5 years ago or more. The modems I dialed into sometimes had problems and the connection was trashy. I would "hang up" and try dialing in until I hit a better modem. You could tell which was which back then.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 05:40 PM

Cooker - stove, hob, with oven beneath.

LTS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:19 AM

Yep, had the same experience as John and Sage, but not much lately.
current problems as described, kicked off whilst a page is loading, or can only get as far as the ISP, then, although apparently connected, I'm not, or am at such a slow speed that EFFECTIVELY I'm not connected. Sometimes can't even get to that stage. Sometimes, like tonight, no problem.

I used to have a little program which 'flashed' the ISP at intervals to keep them from kicking you off whilst downloading. Can't remember what it was called, but it worked.

Sage's "What is a cooker" reminds me of a television show I once saw.
There was a woman who'd made an impulse decision to take a trip, and left a phone message to her husband.
"I'll be away for a day, so you'll have to get a TV dinner out of the freezer and warm it up in the oven. The freezer is the big white thing next to the telephone, and the oven is part of the other big white thing next to the sink." Curled me up.

And yes, about that satellite, I've already lined my cap with lead. I don't need any more dentist's bills...

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 04:59 AM

SRS, your system looks a bit different to the UK one. Over here on domestic systems, the wires usualy go into a phone socket and I don't think you are allowed to touch the supplier (BT) side of the wiring but are supposed to plug things into the socket and have all equipment in such a way as it can be easily disconnected. The last time I broke what I think are the rules was to fit an extension bell which came with a plug to fit the socket and another slot to take the phone. I snipped that off and joined in the back instead as I did not want an unsightly arragement of one device plugged into another and then into another and that was the quickest and easiest way of doing a neat job.

We don't get DSL here on a normal line but where that sort of broadband is available have ASDL, the A standing for asynchronious (?sp). It's a bit like some (or all?) of the 56K modem standards - recieve is faster than transmit - I think ours is 512/256K. There are faster recieve speeds but options available depend not only on ISP charges for different services but on the feasability of the lines carrying the faster rates - I think we are too far from the exchange for that to be an option here.

The way we use phone and ASDL is to have filters plugged into the BT socket(s). The filter has 2 outlet sockets. One for the phone and the other for the computer equipment. The sockets are different sizes btw. I've a feeling that in the US, you use an RJ-11 for a phone. That's the one we use for modems but the phone is something else (I just call it bt).

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 12:15 PM

Gurney,

Lead in your hat will also keep Superman from seeing the kryptonite you've had implanted in your brain!

Sometimes if you don't have a connection but you recently visited the page while online the computer will load the cached page (if you visit your cookies page there are a lot of temp files in there composed of all of the little bits that go into putting the page on the screen). Only when you try to visit something new that wasn't previously loaded do you encounter the information that the page isn't available, etc. If you want to test the system to be sure, go back to the loaded page and click "reload" and it will come back with the message that the page isn't available.

This doesn't help solve your problem, but it might help you see why you seem to get mixed results when browsing.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:31 PM

Jon,

I have about exhausted my ability to speak lucidly about phone wiring. I can look at it and recognize the parts, but can't speak too much about standards and protocols. We have four wires, as was noted above, but that's not because four are required. It has to do with different lines on one phone or in one room. Here what we call DSL comes on the regular phone line, but it has to do with the requency of the signal. It doesn't interefere with the regular phone service, dial tone, etc. I had started laying out the wiring for my phones when the DSL folks arrived. Since I had done all of that he could simply make the connection, so what I ended up with is a filter at the box outside (which the phone company needs to update, but I haven't gotten around to calling about that). This eliminates the need for a small filter on each phone. Idea being that it blocked any DSL interference on regular phones.

Here the outgoing signal is slower than incoming. Messages go out at about double the reglar modem would manage. And yes, the plugs are different sizes, from the DSL modem vs the regular phone modem.

Take a look at this site, one of them I used to plan out the design and layout of my phone system. An engineer friend confirmed the soundness of choices, and offered suggestions where needed.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 01:53 PM

Thanks SRS.

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 02:44 PM

that should be "frequency," not "requency."

Subject: RE: Tech: Web problems
From: Gurney
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 04:07 AM

The phone connection was reworked at lunchtime, and someone has been on the Web, -just for testing purposes, you understand,- most of the time since. No problems at all, but we've been there before. If this thread doesn't get revived, the problem is solved.   However.....

Sage, thanks for the information about Superman. Good, because I really want nothing to do with someone who wears a body-stocking AND bathers AND a cloak for heavens sake, and then has his initial on his chest in case no-one recognises him.