Gettin' Up to Speed

Subject: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: KT
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 02:29 PM

Okay, so you know the tunes inside and out.The day for the dance is fast approaching. How do you get the group and those tunes up to DANCE speed without losing clarity, tone, etc.? Playin' 'em over and over again, working with a metronome, increasing the speed a little each time.....What works for you?

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: DADGBE
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 02:58 PM

The technique that works for me is to increase speed slowly over many weeks. I use a metronome and increase speed no more than 5 - 10 beats per minute each week. The key is relaxing into the speed and not tightening up. If I get tense, it's hopeless.

Good luck,
Ray

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 05 - 06:01 PM

Curious thing I've noticed...

Because of the popularity of bluegrass in acoustic circles in the US, it's not uncommon that jam session speed is actually faster that what you may encounter at a dance. Contra dances, and others that rely on "old-time" music are actually not breakneck speed.

On the other hand, what I've seen of Celtic music and dance, the dance is as frantic in tempo as the music.

I'm glad I'm in the US.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: KT
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 01:29 PM

Thanks for your thoughts, Ray and guest.

No problems with speed on guitar. It's that fiddle bow that gets confused once we get up into the 120 range.

Any other thoughts out there on how to get up to speed without losing clarity or control? Exercises maybe?

I'd love to learn more old time. Any suggestions for good recordings of Old time music? Thanks all!

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: warpy
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 09:00 PM

Its really important to have at least attempted to dance whatever you are playing for.It kind of settles in your head thro the feet. I could never play strathspays until I learnt to dance badly same goes for Mazurka's and Irish jigs and Hornpipes my Bad dancing is ledgendary.Good Luck

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:47 AM

"Classical Musicans" know that there are only 3 words that cover all of this business of gaining technical proficiency on an instrument...







Practice












Practice










Practice!!!

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: RichM
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 09:48 AM

Let your natural body rythmn help you:

Tap your foot!

I was brought up on early country music and traditional Québec fiddle tunes. My grand father was a fine fiddler who always tapped his foot in rythmn.



When my bandmates or jam friends have trouble with the rhythm of a piece, I always tell them this advice...


Thanks, gran'père!

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: Marion
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 07:18 PM

I always tap my feet when fiddling dance tunes, and I deluded myself into thinking that this meant I was keeping a steady rhythm. Until I taped myself fiddling and tried playing rhythm guitar along with the tape, and discovered that this wasn't so. I must be adjusting my foot tapping to compensate for glitches in the tune rhythm, rather than tapping steadly and letting the fiddle follow my foot...

Marion

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 07:31 PM

Don't worry about clarity, tone, control, etc. The dancers aren't listening to you anyway. The only thing that counts is keeping the beat.

First the rhythm. The rest will come with practice.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: Gypsy
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 07:45 PM

That's right. get the tune DOWN, noteperfect, then the speed will come easily. If you can't play it backwards, forwards, and from the middle, taint no way you can speed it up.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: KT
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:41 PM

Good thoughts, everyone!!

Regarding the foot tapping thing, I find it much easier to tap my foot AFTER I've got the song down cold! It's more a way of entering more completely into the music rather than using it as a gauge to keep me on the beat. It's only when I am really comfortable with the song and the speed that I can be relaxed enough to let the rest of me get into it!

Speaking of tapping feet, have any of you ever seen a performance by Barachois? Louise plays the fiddle while keeping complex rhythms with both feet. She is unbelievable!

KT

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: warpy
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:50 PM

Sam Sherry my old clog dancing teacher could fiddle and clog at the same time.Its a wonderful skill, in his late seventies he still walked on his hands for a laugh.He never lost time while playing maybe you have it or you don't .

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: Teresa
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 10:56 PM

John Hartford could do that too. I saw a live performance of his in which he clogged, called a dance, and fiddled wonderfully at the same time. Amazing.

teresa

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 02:36 AM

Actually, if you want to play a certain piece at a certain speed in front of an audience - if you practice it alone up to a faster speed, then you will be very comfortable when playing at the proper speed in front of an audience.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: GUEST,Willie-O
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 06:32 AM

The Barachois foot-rhythm thing is standard Acadian/Quebecois practise.

To go back to the beginning, if indeed your group knows the tunes inside out, all you need to do is throw 'em in the deep end-whoever sets the tempo, rhythm instrument or conductor or whatever, put them to the tempo that is needed, not the one that the players are most comfortable with.

Around these parts I know a lot of players who always play at moderate speeds and have convinced themselves they can't play faster. But my first piano teacher set me straight on that question forty years ago: if you really know the piece, you've got the fingerings all worked out etc, you can play it at any speed that's physically possible. But if you stumble through it cause you're not sure of certain phrasings, you can sound passable at a slow speed but those certain passages trip you up when you get faster. So, (again I hear Mrs Sierhuis saying this) practice the bits you don't get right, not the whole tune over and over.

If the bow "gets confused", the players need to get a more consistent bowing pattern. (e.g. a separate stroke for each note unless slurring is specifically called for.)

Willie-O

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: Zhenya
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 02:57 PM

KT,
I'm not sure about getting an entire dance band up to speed, but in terms of one instrument (in my case, the fiddle) I found it's a matter of getting rid of the "speed bumps." In other words, improving technique to get rid of the things that are slowing you down.

I've used the metronome method, but all that does is push me to play at the fastest speed I can currently play at. (In case I've just naturally been playing slower.) It doesn't actually improve my technique so that at some point, I simply can't play any faster, even if I ratchet the speed up a bit at a time.

Some things to try instead (again, from a fiddle point of view, but some of this could also apply on other instruments.):

- Keep your fingers (left hand) as close to the strings as possible in between notes. If you pull them too far away, it takes much longer to get them back for the next note.

- Anticipate what notes will be coming up. Start to move your hand into position as soon as you can after playing the last note.

- Keep your fingers light on the strings. You can get a clear sound without pressing really hard and tiring your fingers.

- Use tinier bow strokes the faster you want to play. Also, you only need a slight subtle movement to move the bow from string to string.

You can practice all of these things as separate technique issues by applying them one at a time to a simple tune you know well. These are just some examples, but the point is, to a large extent, playing faster is a matter of good technique rather than simply moving your fingers or hands faster.

I'm not sure what level you are playing at, so if these things seem too basic, maybe you can examine your own technique issues and come up with appropriate practice exercises along these lines.

By the way, I'm still working on all of this myself, until it becomes more automatic! But when I do practice in this manner, I definitely see an improvement in my ability to play faster. Of all the things I mentioned above, the one that has helped me the most is to anticipate what I will be playing next, so I don't hesitate in getting to the next note. Sort of like reading ahead when you're sight reading music.

Zhenya

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: GLoux
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 03:21 PM

One time we gave a concert at a Borders store nearby, sitting right next to the coffee counter. They gave us each a double espresso. I think we finished our 45 minute set in 15 minutes.

Seriously though, you asked about good old time recordings for dance. I don't believe it has been reissued on CD, but there was a record released in the 1980s called:

A. Robic & the Exertions

with Bruce Molsky, Mike Seeger, and a number of other musicians. Each track is (I seem to recall) a medley of tunes and all tracks, with the exception of the last one, are at the same speed for dancing. The last track was a waltz.

Ask around and maybe you have a friend with a copy of it.

Hope this helps,
-Greg

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 03:23 PM

Speaking as someone for whom practice is a dirty word, try leaving out a note or two here and there.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 03:36 PM

Practice, yup.

Mental practice, visualizing the hands and fingers and instrument parts, music on the page and sounds in the air. Once I think I know something fairly well I try to practice it in my head, sans instrument, as I fall asleep, when I drive (not at the same time!), out walking, or when I'm killing time in line somewhere. I'm not a good memorizer but I find this helps.

And practice.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 03:38 PM

...that is assuming you've got the physical wherewithall to play anything at speed.

Tempo in reserve is good too, so you're not always sprinting.

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: just john
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 03:40 PM

Foolestroupe: So, practice and lots of space? Very zen.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 04:39 PM

It's harder to play fast than slow, all things being equal, and if the demands of the tune, the band, the crowd, etc., require a faster tempo than you're able to produce, yes, then you have to practice and refine your technique with an eye to increased speed.

But isn't there just as much danger of playing *too* fast? That's certainly a problem for me, especially when learning a new song. Once I get past the initial difficulties and can play through the whole number fairly easily, I almost always yield to the temptation to go faster and faster, beyond the correct tempo. The next step is to practice harder and more carefully to exercise self-control, find the right speed, and keep it steady.

Now, I'm not in a dance band, so it's not the same thing, but I'm throwing in my two-cents worth, that playing at the appropriate tempo can be difficult *either way.*

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 06:28 PM

Anticipation is necessary - even for reading the score - remember that in 'Classical Music Training' Sight Reading is examinable. You should be reading ahead so that

1) you don't get to the end of a page and have a break while you turn the page... :-)

2) you are anticipating technical things like hand position shifts etc.

Just John -

Head space man... :-)


PoppaGator

my dad said "any fool can play fast and loud - it takes talent, technique and practice to play slow amd soft" - he was a violinist.

Subject: RE: Gettin' Up to Speed
From: KT
Date: 20 Jan 05 - 02:15 AM

Thanks, everyone, for all of your stories, and great suggestions! They're all very helpful ! I've been putting in a lot of practice time lately, something I love to do, actually - just wish I had more time to do it!! You and all of your suggestions have been in my thougts as I play. Gettin' there, bit by bit!

Poppagator, yes, I agree, that playing too fast can be a problem as well. (Though I don't suspect that will ever be MY problem!)   It's not easy for a band that's playing too fast to slow it down to the right tempo in the midst of a dance. And it's not much fun for the dancers if it's too fast.

Greg, thanks for the Old Time suggestion. I'll see if I can get it.

Zhenya, thanks for all of the fiddle-specific suggestions. They all make a lot of sense.

Ray, we've been employing the metronome more regularly....increasing speed bit by bit. I may have to keep it near me to keep my bandmates from throwing it out the window!!

It's a long process, getting to the point where we're satisfied with our playing. I don't know that anyone ever reaches that point, but it sure is a fun journey, isn't it?

KT