Folk music , TOO associated with Church?

Subject: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 11:52 PM

rememer i'm agnostic.. so not too much ill respect meant..

but basic pemise "Folk music , TOO associated with Church?"

..thats why "Folk" is losing to interest of new younger generations..????

what'd you think..??????????

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: GUEST,BHS
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 11:58 PM

Charlotte's a harlot.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 03:57 AM

Does this apply to sea shantys, of which most were unprintable in their original form, being both obscene and often blasphemous.

eric

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:00 AM

Are you fairly new to folk music punkfolkrocker?

eric

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 12:17 PM

Well, I suppose gospel music is popular among folkies - but most folkies I know sing gospel for fun, not for religious purposes. I love gospel, but won't sing it in church.

African-American spirituals are popular with folkies, too. I think people sing them because of the beauty of the music, not as a religious experience.

I think a reasonably tolerant person can sing gospel or spirituals without having religious or antireligious sensitivities offended. If not, maybe they should do a "tolerance check."

Many folk-genre songs I know of that have religious overtones are irreverent, like
Plastic Jesus or Has Anybody Seen J.C.?. I suppose that non-religious people could feel uncomfortable singing irreverent songs, for fear of seeming intolerant. There's an interesting dynamic involved there.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Chu
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 12:38 PM

I think you can't have come across that much folk music, punkfolkrocker, or perhaps you live in an unusual part of the world.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 06:41 PM

I would be inclined to think of any association between the church and "folk" music to be pretty much limited to the middle of the USA.

Most English folk songs (I mean folk songs) are robustly critical of the organised church as another bunch of oppressors and opportunists who seek to exploit the downtrodden masses, or stand between them and their gods, or prohibit the old ways whether observed out of fear or love.

Aren't they?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 06:51 PM

The younger generations are not interested in folk music because they never get to hear it. They never get to hear it because it's not on the media. It's not on the media because it's not copyright, and without copyright, there is no way to make money on it.

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 06:59 PM

Here in the middle of the USA, folk music has nothing at all to do with church or Chrisitanity.

It has nothing much to do with religion at all, unless someone purposely seeks out that area of folk music.

I has nothing to do with punk rock either.

I don't think you have heard much American folk music.

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:12 PM

I intentionally said "any".

I also intentionally said "folk".

There was quite a lot of sort of god-ish stuff and gospel revivalism in the USA in the 60s, but apart from the gospel side it was mostly not within the 1954/5 definition of folk (see other threads).

Anyone got any other ideas what connection punkfolkrocker could be talking about? He's too young for the crypt under St Martins, surely?

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Brían
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:47 PM

punkfolkroker may be referring to Folk Mass, a phenomenon that would turn you away from folk music and the Mass. I have surprised our musical minister by pointing out that some of the better hymns share their tunes with folk songs. I frankly enjoy singing gospel music for spiritual reasons and for enjoyment, although i am glad that I don't have to ever worry about what a catholic folk group would do to them. I heard Reverend Al Green on NPR saying he didn't have any problem singing carnal songs. He knows no one he sees in his church arrived there as a product of praying and fasting.

Brían

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:05 PM

I think Punkfolkrocker's take is something like this (we're talking UK here, the situation may be different in US:

Youngsters get their music from the mainstream media
Folk music is invisible in the mainstream media.
Some youngsters go to church.
Church music is played on an organ.
Some progressive churches use acoustic guitars etc instead of an organ for their music.
Acoustic guitars are folk instruments
So folk must be connected to religion, not cool.
QED

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:08 PM

"There was quite a lot of sort of god-ish stuff and gospel revivalism in the USA in the 60s, but apart from the gospel side it was mostly not within the 1954/5 definition of folk (see other threads)."


Gee, I was quite involved in the folk scene back then in the good ole USA in the 1960s. I think the 60s folk scene had hardly anything to do with "god-ish" stuff.

I wish I knew what the heck he is talking about.

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:17 PM

"TOO associated with Church?"

"..thats why "Folk" is losing to interest of new younger generations..????"

no...that's not the problem.

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 09:31 PM

I have to agree that Folk Mass music was awful, freshly-scrubbed, wholesome, three-chord stuff. For a while, it seemed like the New Christy Minstrels in Polyester were at one Mass every Sunday in every Catholic church in the U.S. The Catholic music publishers cleaned up their act and came out with some pretty good stuff. Trouble is, some of the three-chord people are still there, and they don't know what to do with the newer music. And some of the traditionalists are still complaining about the "Folk Mass," which died in the early 1980's.

I watched The Land Is Your Land: The Folk Years on DVD last night - Kingston Trio, Judy Collins, the Brothers Four, Highwaymen, Glenn Yarbrough, and "Randy Sparks and the Minstrels" - If young people think that was folk music, maybe that's why they don't like it.

My song has a punk band, named !!! (pronounced "chick chick chick"). He and a number of the band members know a fair amount about folk music. One time, I sang "This Land Is Your Land" with them in front of an audence.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: mg
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 09:41 PM

Joe, I only wish any of the music I have haerd in the Catholic church in the last 30 years bore any resemblance to the New Christy Minstrals, Kingston Trio etc. I would not mind singing Michael Row the Boat ashore every sunday for the rest of my life. And forget the 3 chords..they have chords that didn't exist before Vatican II. They have all sorts of odd times, 4/7 and 6/11 say, (I make this up) in the same song..all sorts of rests and odd directions on how to sing the song. you would not recognize it as music. Yesterday I had enough. Two of the worst singers you ahve ever heard sing at my church. They insist on practicing before Mass the same songs they sing in Mass. Once is all I can take. I stormed out during practice and told the greeters that I was about to hurt them and I meant it. They said they would bring it uop in the church council. it is hideous hideous crap. Although I am sure your church is different. mg

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 09:49 PM

I go to mass every Sunday and sometimes even durng the week and have heard very little "folk music" at all. Our parish has a great adult choir and a junior choir but they stick solely to hymns with a small pipe organ. The nearest they ever get to folk music would be a very rare occasion when they may attempt a fairly sophisticated version of Carter's "Lord of the Dance" or " Go tell it on the mountain". But this suits me well, I go to mass for the mass and if I want to hear folk music I will go to a club or a concert or play it myself at home.

I agree with some of the comments above, folk music does not make money therefore it is not given the air time or the T.V. exposure of other forms of music, and that is why young people know little about it, given the opportunity I am sure the younger generations would find it really interesting and refreshing.

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 10:04 PM

don't really think we'll hear from gest funkpolkrocker again

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 10:31 PM

Actually, the punkers may be the salvation of folk music. They aren't interested in the music for the money, and many of the punkers I've met have a broad knowledge of music and a respect for traditional music of many genres.

Sometimes, I wish the punkers would be a bit more interested in the money. A car manufacturer wanted to use one of my son's songs in a commercial, and his band would have split the $250,000 fee - and they turned down the offer because they didn't want to be "the band in the commercial." Well, I'm still paying his health insurance, and it sure would be nice if he'd increase his income enough to pay that himself.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 10:38 PM

Joe, I wish the punkers would first learn what it means to sing instead of whine.

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 10:56 PM

Yeah, I know, Martin. I wear earplugs when I go to my son's concerts. Heck, even HE wears 'em.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Folk music , TOO associated with Church?
From: Arkie
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 11:35 PM

Here in Arkansas some of the folk concerts take place in church coffee houses in Little Rock and Conway. Since that is a pretty good drive for me, I miss out on a lot, but from the performers I know and from what I have read of the performers, I would doubt that the content of the concerts could be be considered particularly religious.