Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 05 - 10:16 PM

I made another big purchase for the computer this month. When I replaced the stolen one I made the case for the expansion space that I lost--I had a tall case with room for several drives yet. So I picked up one of those external hard drive boxes, and this week I filled it with a 300gig hard drive I found on sale.

I've debated how to transfer my Dad's music from LPs, cassettes, and reel-to-reel for ages--the good stereo equipment with the equalizers and such is in the living room. I have long cables to run into my office to my computer, but I'd still have to go back and forth for monitoring settings. Then I realized that I could use this portable hard drive and install it also on the kids' computer which is across the room (15 feet, instead of 50) from the good receiver and sound equipment. I can save my files to this hard drive, via wires run to their computer, then I can bring it back in here to work with and burn my CDs. I'll do my copying when they're not here and I can work on my computer at my leisure when they are.

I'll burn CDs as backups and I have another hard drive I use for Ghost backups of my entire system every month. This portable one will be handled carefully, and I'll scan the kids' computer and such before plugging it in. I think I finally have this project figured out.

I still have to do the darned insurance paperwork. Time is flying, only about six months left. I'm doing it this weekend, so I'm paid up by christmas.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 01:04 PM

John, I went in today and downloaded several of those Microsoft Powertoys. Thanks for the link--it was very easy to save those to fiddle with later. Last time I went looking for the TweakUI I think I did get it free from the ZD folks, after quite a search to find one that would work with that operating system and it never did quite what I wanted.

The System Tray at the bottom of the screen is where the action is when the computer is booting up. Those icons appear as they are loaded. The Start Menu isn't the same as the system tray, but I need to see if TweakUI will address the tray or my problem has not been solved. It is still only a few seconds, but I can see the system working a little longer to install things I rarely run that I don't want to load themselves automatically. I have a desktop icon and if I want to launch them I'll go there or will open my All Programs list from "start" and open it.

I've also downloaded the Picasa program from Google. Several friends have been impressed with it. I'll give it a test. I organize my images in files anyway, so it may find those and just show me what I already have (and could find in Windows Explorer). The interesting part will be what happens when making editing choices. I often use the quick but not full-featured Microsoft photo editing program that WE brings up, but I have Adobe Photoshop and need to become more conversant with it. As to organizing photos, there is also a feature of Nero that pops up and asks if I want to download images when I plug in my digital camera. There's a lot to sort out between the resident and the purchased programs now residing in this new computer.



SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 08:18 PM

The House always wins - except for House Insurance....

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 11:02 AM

He made the point (I think he had to) that I can contest his results. Of course I can. But if he'd done his work right I wouldn't have to. Since it's back in my court, they're hoping I'll settle with their discounted results. Not likely. That credit card bill (the one where I put ONLY replacement stuff on this claim so I'd know the precise costs) is a couple thousand higher than what he suggests paying. (They do the same thing with their auto insurance--the first appraisal is way low of the actual repair price--they hope you'll take the check and skip the repair. My truck was in a fender bender, hit from behind about 18 months ago--the dealer who did the repair got a substantial amount more out of Allstate.)

He has some pretty bizarre findings on his report, and some odd redundancies in the face of his omissions. He forgot my second monitor, but included some kind of high-priced category for a second zip drive. (He has the original price on this precious 250 meg drive at $1,000 and he depreciates it down to $92. Oy.) Meanwhile, the zip drive that I replaced with an identical size and brand (but have no room to put it as an internal drive so this is external) I'll only get $25. This is as close to a "replacement" as he can get--and it speaks clearly to the fiction of their "replacement" policy. It's that depreciation that gets you.

In all fairness, there are a few things where he found higher priced replacements than I did. He tells me that there is "$1,200 in unreplaced items" but I have to figure out how to get to it. I think it involves returning items (in many instances, that isn't going to happen) and buying a more expensive item. I think. I'm not sure.

But would you believe it--he found a place that supposedly sells a "new" version of a seven-year-old printer that was long ago discontinued by HP. A printer I'd have never found in a normal search of the vendors I typcially shop with, after my own comparison pricing on the items they sell new today. My point is that I went back to the same vendors where I bought the original items to buy their replacements, and THAT is the standard I think Allstate should support. I won't hash over the rest of the claim--this is enough to illustrate the problems with it.

Yup, insurance is a legalized form of gambling. And the casino owners always come out on top.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 09:26 AM

You see - in Australia, we have something called 'Fair Trade Laws'...

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 07:53 AM

That's insurance for you Sage. They insure you against being bitten by a yak, then stipulate in fine print that the policy is void if bitten on a visit to Tibet, or a Zoo.

The difference between Insurance companies and bookies is that the insurers not only set the odds, they own the track, and the horses too.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 17 Apr 05 - 05:10 AM

If he were in Australia, I would report him for apparently being incompetent at his job!

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 11:52 PM

Well, it will be no surprise to any readers here that the adjustor at Allstate is an IDIOT! He came up with the most absurd low-ball "unit costs" for the things I had to replace--he must have visited every gray-market dealer on the internet. And he didn't pay much attention to detail. An example: He suggests that my Western Digital external hard drive, 120 gig, should be replaced by an 80 gig, at a severe depreciation, down from nearly $250 to $108. If he'd bothered to look at his own web site where he did his "research," my particular 120 gig drive is still for sale, now $195.00.

I'm going to have to go through his list in which he identifies my claimed items, but misses several, and argue against what he suggests they were worth (NEVER NEVER NEVER believe that "replacement value" on an insurance policy means they'll replace something. It means they want to pay what it would cost for a used item, not a replacement item).

He offers an "upgrade" package (at about half the original price) for software where the original is gone so it can't be upgraded; I have to set him straight on that. He was more than happy to accept the going price when I could get it on academic software, and never offered the hundreds of dollars more to replace those missing gems.

Okay. Enough venting for now. I have to get out my list and make a couple of more columns to make my case.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:00 PM

IIRC the lightscribe DVD Burner has only the capability to make sepia-tone dots and lines forming images and charcters. So although they can look interesting, they are one-color. Far better is to buy printable CDs (they have a different kind of top surface) and print full color directly onto them.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 03:15 PM

Tweak UI is a component of Windows XP Powertoys. PowerToys is a set of useful(?)/fun(?) utilities developed by "Microsoft Guys" but is not formally supported by Microsoft. The PowerToys suite was unavailabel for a while, but the new page says:

"They're back! PowerToys are additional programs that developers work on after a product has been released to manufacturing. They add fun and functionality to the Windows experience."

Check at Microsoft PowerToys for Windows XP.

(Note that there is a separate version of Tweak UI for systems using the Itanium system/processor. Probably not applicable.)

PowerToys were available for earlier Windows versions, and were pretty widely circulated; but I don't have any info on where to get versions for earlier Win versions. Most of the individual tools are probably available from a number of sites.

I believe there was an earlier version, possibly also called Tweak UI, from Ziff-Davis. Their stuff used to be free, but now requires registration and payment, on the order of $10/utility or unlimited downloads for a monthly subscription fee. I'd recommend going to the Microsoft site (the link), since what you get from a more "generic source" could have a rather uncertain ancestry.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:36 PM

This question is probably one for John, but all comers are welcome: I have been installing new software over the last month, and when the offer to install icons all over the place comes up, I decline all except one on my desktop. There is still a preponderance of icons in that have appeared in the "tray" in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen. Many come from HP and are to do with their various programs and help options.

There is a program tech friends told me about, called "Tweak UI," that I could never get to work with my old operating system (Win2000Pro) that apparently did work for earlier Windows versions. I wonder if it's out there in some form now? that works with XP Pro? I tried looking for one at Tucows, but come up with programs that do something other than Tweak, which was designed to limit the programs that start when the computer first boots up.

On another topic, yesterday I added a gig of RAM memory to this new computer. Memory costs so much less for this one when compared to my last HP, which had a different form that was good but never caught on, so it never came down in price. Before it was stolen I was preparing to add memory, but always balked at the price. To add 512 meg was going to cost me $400-$500. The gig I just added was around $200.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 07:10 PM

They are pushing those media ones bigtime. I have the HP "Lightscribe" software, so I guess I can do it (it came in the box with my computer). So much to learn still. . . I don't have anything to burn right now. And I don't have the card in the computer to get all of the tv or statellite or other stuff into it. Maybe that's why they didn't bother to install the Lightscribe--because I'd have to upgrade to even use it.

I've about finished the shopping (what a bitch, rounding up all of these bits in pieces in a couple of weeks that I took years to think over then accumulate). Now I'm doing the paperwork. I'm not completely in love with the HP yet, but the printer is fine (I replaced one boxy HP printer with another (faster) boxy HP printer) and the Epson scanner is much more versatile than my last one. No surprises there. With the Pavilion, I think it's just learning to get along with XP. My old Win2000Pro was stubborn but predictable.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 07:03 PM

FYI: A new Harvey Norman (Aust) flyer has turned up advertising a HP M1299A Media PC that incorporates a Lightscribe*6 ™ Dual Layer DVD Burner - "burn labels directly onto DVDs & CDs"

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 10:16 PM

Yeah, Money is a bitch to set up. Every time you figure out some new thing that it can do that you weren't doing right before, you need to keep track and go remove the things you did wrong or you'll never know how much money you have. But once it gets humming along, it is an entertaining program. It managed to save me some considerable money on my tax return last year. I see by my refund that they didn't give me as much back as I thought they would, so I'm awaiting the letter explaining the difference. From there I'll decide if I need to send more information or let it drop.

The CD ROM is making a liar of me this evening. I thought "what the heck" and stuck the Netgear disk into it. Opened just fine. Hmmmm. (I was setting up a network password to keep passersby off of our home network. I didn't do that before, but I am now.) I'll test it with some more disks later. I have a whole stack of stuff to install still.

BTW: There was no UK bashing intended in my criticism of MS Money. The British English in Money could be entertaining, but the problem is that it's asking for stuff that just isn't germane here, like Value Added Taxes or whatever some of those things are (I think they're also in Canada). This could mean that it will miss U.S. stuff I want it to calculate.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 03:20 PM

SRS -

I've never been able to figure out how to set up enough of the preliminary stuff for accounts to get Money to do anything but connect me to stockbrokers who want my money, so I still do my stuff in Excel - like 20 years ago.

Windows versions are language specific to an extent, although there's some latitude for choosing a language in Windows, in IE, and in some programs. Money probably takes it's setting from an Office setup, althought I don't have it on a machine to check that out.

If it's getting it from Windows, Start - Settings - Control Panel - Double-click "Regional and Language Options" - should let you change it.

If it's getting it from Office settings, changing it in Word (sort of the master office program) should change it for all Office programs. In Word, Tools - Language - Set Language should get you there.

If it's a Money specific setting, it's probably on the Tools button (if there is one).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 02:42 PM

I figure in a machine this new, if the usual troubleshooting things don't work, they can start from scratch with a new player, and let the techie be sure to install the drivers and test it him/herself. There are a lot of computer things I'm interested and willing to do, but to FIX A NEW COMPUTER, I don't think so. In theory and praxis, they're supposed to work when you take them out of the box (!).

Now if someone could tell me how to get this blankety-blank MS Money to quit with the British English. It's just too wierd to be looking at Favourites and cheques. I grew up next to the Canadian border, the terms are not unfamiliar. But it appears they sent the wrong disk (another coaster, John?) or the default setting is wrong and I can't for the life of me find a button to toggle to switch to American English.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM

Autoplay used to be a bad idea because it opened the system to virus importation from infected CDs. I don't know if this has been fixed or not.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 12:58 PM

SRS -

The only simple-minded thing I can see is that you can set your CD player to autoplay, and theoretically you can designate different programs for the several kinds of disks. It may be that you only have a program set for audio CD.

If you can see the drive in Explorer while an audio CD is playing(?) you can right click to get Properties for the drive. The autoplay tab on the properties display has two choices, a button at the top that you click to put a dot in if you want to select an option to always play, or a button at the bottom that says "prompt me." If you want a choice of what to do, probably the lower "prompt me" button should be the one selected.

If you can't see the drive in Explorer even with an audio CD playing, you'll need to go to Start - Settings, double click on SYSTEM, on the Hardware Tab, open Device Manager, where you should be able to see how the thing is set up. Once you find the drive in Device Manager, you can right-click to see properties (but not the same ones as from Explorer). There is a place, after you right-click to the properties for the drive where you can elect to allow digital audio. If it's NOT CHECKED the drive may only read "audio" files, so clicking on the digital there may help it to see "digital" disks(?). There is a trouble-shooter on the General Tab that may help (although experience suggests it will probably tell you everything's fine).

As an aside, I've found CD/DVD drives to be one of the most troublesome things on my current machine. My DVD/CD-R/W is an early model, and it's given me persistent problems. After three consecutive driver updates, all promised to fix things, and multiple cleanings and adjustments, I'll probably be on my way to find a replacement drive within the very near term. I can help today if anybody wants a matched set of coasters - for a large party, since I was trying to burn some backups most of the night.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 10:50 AM

I had to reach down into the three-day-old stuff to retreive this for another equipment question. As I work my way through learning the new operating system and the range of the equipment, and as I install new programs, I am finding a problem with the CD-ROM. I went to the HP site to do some troubleshooting last night. This is an HP Pavilion a820n, lower in the pecking order of new Pavilion computers than my old Pavilion 9870 was when I bought it. I'm figuring out how to keep my functionality relatively high for a while. One drawback on this, and I think it is a defective piece of equipment or a missing driver is the CD-ROM. It's not a burner, just a player, but it only recognizes Audio CDs. I have not been able to get it to even SEE data CDs. If I stick a music CD in, a dialog box (Audio CD F:) comes along and asks about how I want to play or copy the music, or look at the files, but I can't trick it to stay open to let me swap out a data CD. And Windows Explorer can't see anything, it keeps telling me to insert a CD.

The HP site tells me about various things to try. I know it is plugged in because the CD plays music. It has power. It can be seen by part of the system. Is there another driver that should also be working, or is the CD some strange mutant that only recognizes music? Is there such a thing? I need to get this fixed, and I actually am considering having them replace it with a DVD player. Makes more sense, and some of the more expensive Pavilions had a dual DVD system (the new Dell on order has that). I figured I could live with the CD and the DVD arrangement, but since I have to do something about it, I might as well not have to do something twice (the next time being the upgrade to the DVD player anyway sometime down the road).

Any thoughts? I was pretty tired when I read the HP site, but I think by default I've run all of their tests except by starting it in the safe mode.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 02:13 PM

Grab -

No argument that there aren't new things out there, but the articles linked aren't just "cookbooks." Apparently you're dismissing the whole deal just because of the date on one link. RTFM and let us know what you think is wrong with one or more of the articles if you're trying to meet the same goals now.

There is considerable discussion of what's traded off, and why, with links to makers and sellers, and constant references to "check it out for yourself."

The articles generally recommend against anyone just buying the parts list and starting to build. In a couple of cases they do suggest options that would be better, that they couldn't get in time or at the cost they wanted, with suggestions of where you might find the same - or better - in a different local market, and what to do if you can't find specific components in your market.

Not everyone needs, or wants to build the latest and best at everything. Each of the articles discusses what's significant if you have one special requirement and want to build specifically to meet that one need.

Most people who really want to roll their own will want to look at several of the designs, since each one gives some insight into what corners you can cut and things you can add to get a specific single result. You'll likely want a different mix of capabilities than any one of these designs offers.

It's the discussion of what you're trying to do, and why things matter, when you make up your own kit that I found of interest. And the series of articles that started before 2003 are still running now, with updates, in some cases. New "designs" in this series frequently refer back to previous ones, and compare what's changed since publication of the older ones.

Since I have not been, and am not now interested in building my own machine, I don't spend a lot of time looking for the best sources for such info. This one looked good. I offered it to you. If you don't like it, don't use it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Grab
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 12:30 PM

John, speeds and capabilities have gone up pretty radically, as prices for stuff of that spec has gone down. I'd be surprised if the bits in that article would total more than $800 today - in fact, I'd be surprised if all the bits listed are still available today.

Some things *have* changed in two years. The power of 3D graphics has gone up incredibly, so that you only need a higher-spec card if you're seriously into gaming - anything else, a budget card will be more than adequate. The quality of LCD displays has also gone up incredibly, so that they're just about useable for games and video stuff now. USB 2 has arrived, and you shouldn't get a mobo without it. PCI Express is on the way in, so you need to decide whether you want to stick with AGP and PCI or go for the bleeding edge. Prices of memory, storage and processor speed have dropped through the floor. And with the faster processors, you need to take more care in buying a cooling fan (unless you like the sound of jet aircraft! ;-) and making sure that the fan will fit with the case and mobo you're going to buy.

Not many new concepts, in that you still need a hard drive, mobo, graphics card, etc. But which bits you choose requires you to know what's worth buying today. And 2-year-old recommendations are way obsolete for that.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 01:23 AM

Well, sorry, JiK

there must be a new MS generated acronym for RTFM - I only ever knew it as 'Read The F****** Manual'! - but then I am not an expert on the arcane inner workings of the Windows Registry...

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 06:11 PM

Whose location is known only to Mac users..... :D

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 05:52 PM

Then there's the ROTFLMAO key. . . :-D

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 05:32 PM

Foulestroupe -

The only problem is that the RTFM key is the only hidden one in the registry. It can be murder just finding whether it exists, and getting it's value, both of which you have to do by indirect means, by assessing the performace of other devices, processes and accessory apurtenances.

Then, it can only be manipulated by processing, external to the computer, through a separate RTFM utility, and applying the results of the external processing to other aspects of the actual application and its installation - with the blind hope that the value of the hidden key will be suitably affected. Sometimes it can't be changed.

The more deeply buried RPOTFM and RMOTFM keys can be even more troublesome, since either of these may turn on arcane processes you'd never expect to see.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 03:39 PM

Oh JiK...
'The most common problem with new installations is a set-up with a "0" value in the

RTFM key

in the Registry. It can be very difficult to accomplish a reset.'

Well, SOMEONE in Microsoft definitely has sense of humour......

;-)

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 02:17 PM

Now, Mag, I am not a fanatic. I use Windows all the time at work. But I do find that the engineering of the overall system is a lot better in the Mac family, and the UI is designed MUCH more thoughtfully. I have seen lots of Mac foulups of one kind or another. They happen. But they aren't routine.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 01:56 PM

robomatic,

Mac users are frequently zealots about their machines. As long as you take that into account, the conversation can continue on as normal.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 11:07 AM

Amos Amos:

We all know MACs are great :-p______

But I've seen MACs foul up big time, too, and PCs can be great if they do what you want them to do.

What's important is that you get something you can use, afford, and back up, and if you're gone somebody else can use it, too.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 10:53 AM

Amos -

It can't be just WinTel, because I've never had any of the problems described either. There are some problems with legacy hardware and software, with newer Win versions; but not everything is compabible with any OS. The most common problem with new installations is a set-up with a "0" value in the RTFM key in the Registry. It can be very difficult to accomplish a reset.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 08:47 AM

My P3 1G machine would not allow Win98SE to install properly with a USB mouse - just would not recognise a USB mouse during setup so I had to use the keyboard, which means that you can't setup everything easily first off - I needed a PS2 mouse for it to be recognised during install setup. Once past that, I could attach a USB mouse.... so I just went with the flow... still have the PS2 mouse & keyboard cause it's less fighting when I may need to do a reinstall (most likely eventually!)...

go figger....
:-)

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 08:16 AM

SRS:

Gee, you WinTel guys have complex considerations! My hubs -- both firewire and USB -- handle multiple devices simultaneously without a problem,; if they aren't handling them in true simultaneity, its as close as dammit and I can't see the difference. I am running a dual processor G-4 which has probably fewer clock cycles than your machine (but has two cpu's.)

A

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 02:52 AM

SRS -

It must be a Win2000 thing. "Her" Win2K machine is the "host" for sharing the phone line for our internet dialup. The built-in ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) is supposed to pass my stuff back and forth to the web; but fairly frequently it just "forgets" that my machine is there. In order to get the connection back, I have to walk over to her machine, close the connection (hang up the phone), go back to my machine and open my browser - which almost every time triggers hers to redial a fresh connection, and remember that my machine is the one that asked for it. Maybe Win2K is just a little absent minded.

There is a known "bug" in Windows USB handling associated with the "green machine" sleep mode. If the USB controller receives a signal while it's in the process of entering standby mode, the device sometimes isn't recognized when the machine wakes back up. It's reported as only happening with a USB mouse, and Mickey's sage advice is "don't move the mouse while the machine is trying to go to sleep." I believe I saw something about a patch for it, but didn't need it so there's nothing in my log about it.

I don't see any reason why something similar couldn't happen with another kind of USB device. If you use a "time-out to standby" your anonymous USB devices could come from the same bug(?).

Beyond that, the usual suspects probably are "weak" cables and/or loose/dirty jacks.

Theoretically, you can plug two USB devices into the same port, and it sometimes works okay. Reliability is bad enough that a separate port for each device is the recommended practice. The really cheap hubs are little beyond a few resistors for matching the line impedances. When the machine asks for one of the devices, the request goes to all of them, and only the one "named" in the request is supposed to answer. (And the answer goes to all the USB devices, but it has the machine's name on it, so the other devices are supposed to ignore it.) The better "switching" hubs snatch the name of the device that's connected to each port during boot, or when a new device is plugged in. The switching hub only sends a request to the port for the device named, and sends the replies only to the machine. Cutting out the extra transmissions speeds things up slightly, although not enough to be noticeable in most cases. The real improvement is in the better reliability associated with having the talk on the USB system properly routed.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 11:20 PM

John, it's an evening for cross purposes, looks like. I know about clicking the "remove equipment safely" icon, and I use it all of the time. But for some reason my Win2000 couldn't always remember the device. Or at least it expected it on the same plug every time and I usually just plugged it in wherever on the jack. And I think you are right--a jack sounds like a more accurate description of the device (plug it into a USB plug and have space for plugging in four devices). The HUB is different, and I haven't used them with my computers at home, though we used them at work when USB plugs were still pretty scarce on computers.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:44 PM

Grab -

If you just want a blueprint for the ultimate machine, and want to build-to-print, then 30 minutes ago is obsolete by now. These are a continuing series of articles, and frequently cross-reference each other. Some of the "designs" evolve over several months. Each of these "designs" shows where you have to trade off things to get cheapest, fastest, most versatile, or some adaptation to special purposes. One of the most useful features of the articles is that they give sources, and often suggest alternate parts and/or sources.

There haven't been a lot of "new concepts" in the past couple of years either; so unless you're looking for some new gizmo to build a machine around, 2003 is not particular different than yesterday.

and also for SRS:

Not too long ago four USB jacks was the norm on new commercial models, but the 4 jacks on cheaper machines sometimes only represent two ports. You could use the two on the front, or use the two on the back, but you really only had two at a time. If you used one on the back, you had to be careful about using the right one of the two on the front for another plugin. Better machines, of course, had true internal hubs so number of jacks was same as number of ports. I suspect that most current models will be properly equipped so that each jack is connected to a separate hub port, although you might still run into the "cheap" setup with a bottom of the barrel machine.

As with etherlink hubs, there are two kinds. The "passive hub" is a little cheaper, but a "switching hub" is a little more efficient, and will usually give a little faster data transfer. The passive hub just provides a sort of an "impedance match" and signals from the computer are sent to all of the connected USB devices. In theory only the one the computer wants to talk to will respond. The switching type keeps track of the peripherals, and only sends to the device the computer's transmission is meant for - sort of.

And just for SRS:

You should have an icon in the System Tray at the bottom right of your desktop that looks like a sort of rectangular object with a fat green arrow above it. If you hover over it, the ident tag that pops up should say "Safely Remove Hardware" (WinXP), or "Unplug or Eject Hardware" (Win2K). If you double-click it, and click on the device you intend to "remove" before you unplug something, your machine will do a new recognition when you plug something else in, or when you plug the same device back in - regardless of which port you use. You should ALWAYS use this utility before you unplug something - especially that external Hard Drive.

If you unplug something without doing the "safe remove" step, the same device may work if you plug back into the same port, or it may not. It's unlikely to work if you plug it into another port, since the "same device" can't be connected to two different ports. By disconnecting without "dismounting" one device, you can confuse the whole USB hub system. The only good cure for that is to reboot and let the machine run the PnP routine to "find" what's connected.

Re the camera cable: I tried to buy a "spare" cable so I could leave one connected to the main machine and still have one to offload pictures when I'm out and about with the laptop. No luck, because the camera maker (Fujitsu) wouldn't supply replacements and no other camera used the same "proprietary" jack. I "solved" the problem by getting a couple of $10 - $15 dollar "card readers." You do have to remove the memory card from the camera and insert it into the reader, but many people do that routinely anyway. (Quite a few "photo inkjet" printers have card plugin receptacles so that you can print directly from the card. A few new computers have slots for common cards on the front panel.) Actually, I've never used the readers except to check that they work; but it's an option.

Now I find that a lot of new cameras use that connector, but there are no new ones that would allow me to use the memory cards from my old one. I think it's called "marketing" - subcategory "planned obsolescence."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Pauline L
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 01:21 PM

I have had really bad experiences with Dell computers and tech support. Everything about my Dell failed over the course of a year until it was worthless. I had to fight-fight-fight to get any repairs or replacements. I spent many (sometimes five) hours on the phone each day for weeks, either being put on hold or losing my temper and yelling at people. To cut costs, they hire morons who know nothing about computers and put them in contact with customers. They do know how to give the runaround. Aaaargh!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 11:24 AM

Those hubs can't run a bunch of things simultaneously, though, so having more USB plugs on the box is still a good thing. On the old machine I had seven plus a firewire, yet I still used a hub to plug in devices that didn't run at the same time and that I didn't want to reinstall. (A bad habit of my Win2000 software was making me reinstall if I forgot and plugged it into a different plug from the last time I used it.) I'll probably do something similar now for camera cables.

I lost the cable for a little Q-See digital (2.1 megapixel) camera I picked up for running around the house and photographing stuff that I send in email. (An electronic engineer friend is building an energy efficient house in West Texas about 800 miles from here, and we compare notes, so we usually send email with photos.) That was one of two camera cables plugged into the hub that went out the door. I couldn't get another cable where I bought the camera because they don't have them now, and it's a proprietary piece of equipment. I looked Q-See up and emailed and asked if I could buy a new cable. I think they're just going to ship me one gratis. Very nice of them. This was a little $100 camera that can do lots of stuff but isn't meant to stay plugged in or run all of the time. Perfect candidate for the hub.

I actually had thought about a server of some sort when I was first setting up our home computer network. But we have no basement, and the attic gets so hot in summer nothing could live up there, especially computer bits. And a closet is also too confining. In short, there's really not a place to conceal such a device that wouldn't do it in for lack of cool dry dust-free circulating air. We've opted again for a wireless network. I ordered a Dell again for the kids--we've had good luck with them and I work with Dells at the university library. We have IT folks who have taken enough training now that they're certified by the company to work on the machines (this is all in a state contract), and they're also handy for asking questions. (A banana bread or blueberry muffin bribe will get a lot of mileage with those guys! Can't necessarily say that about the techies down at the local computer store.)

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:24 AM

Small 4- or 6-port hubs for both USB and Firewire are available for little dough which offset the need for more than 2 ports on the machine in each flavor.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Grab
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:27 AM

John, if that link was from April 2003 then it's pretty much obsolete by now...

Not sure about Dell - some friends have had a not-very-good experience with them. In general, if you know what you want then it's better to go to a local computer store and tell them exactly what you want, rather than going to some cookie-cutter operation like Dell. They'll be virtually the same price, you'll get decent service (and be able to take it back if it breaks - good luck getting Dell to deal with busted machines or bad installs!) and you'll get just what you want. Plus you'll be supporting local business...

Whoever you get your PC from, make 100% sure that it has full Windows install CDs with it. *NOT* just a restore CD, the full version of Windows to install from scratch. It'll cost a bit more, but if you've not got that then you'll be totally screwed if you ever buy something slightly unusual and find the support drivers you need weren't installed on your machine.

Built-in graphics is an absolute no-no. AGP is probably the way to go for graphics right now - PCI Express is the wave of the future, but cards are still looking pretty pricey. If you're not after doing hardcore gaming, you can get a decent AGP card that'll do everything you want for £50. £100-150 will get you a fairly serious gaming card.

Built-in sound is OK if you only want something to go "ding" when you have an email or play occasional CDs. If you want to sing into a microphone and have your PC record it, better to go for something a bit better.

Lots of USB ports is good. Make sure there are a couple on the front of the PC too. If there aren't, look at getting a separate USB card with a front-panel bit that fits into a drive bay. Make sure it's USB 2.

If you're thinking seriously about minimising future theft, consider networking your house and get a second machine as a server, to be installed in a locked box somewhere in the basement (without a screen, mouse or keyboard). This can be dirt cheap, bcos you only need a fairly basic PC for this - built-in sound and graphics and a decent network card, and doesn't need to be very powerful. If you use this as main data storage for everyone, you'll never lose your data. Each PC will still need its own hard drive for Windows and other programs on it, but data (which is the only irretrievable bit) can live somewhere else. You could even copy all the install CDs for your programs onto the server so that losing the CDs isn't disastrous.

Downside of having a server is that if you lose it, you lose everything. You might want to install a DVD burner in it and set it up to auto-archive every night/every week, so that this is kept safe. Also it takes a bit more electricity if you leave the server on permanently.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 05:23 PM

Although I don't visit the site regularly, the Ziff Davis editors and test lab guys frequently get assigned to play with configuring home-built PCs to meet whatever the boss guy is interested in at the moment. Links to the latest miracles appear occasionally in a newsletter I get, so I've looked in occasionally. I haven't had the urge to build one of these … yet, but the descriptions of what decisions were made, and why, have been helpful in rounding out my awareness of what kinds of equipment are available. You don't have to agree with their opinions to get help firming up your own.

Of course there are lots of DIY sources, but these guys sort of speak my language - which makes it easier (for me) to steal ideas from them.

A starting point: The Midrange PC, By Loyd Case, March 25, 2003:

"The sweet spot for PC price/performance these days is right around $1200. For that amount of money, you can build a system with pretty serious CPU and graphics horsepower. You do have to make a few compromises, but it's surprising what you can do for about $1,200."

You may have to jump around a bit to get the whole story; but here's the:

         Table of Contents:
         Introduction
         Systems Configurations
         Processor
         Motherboard
         Memory, Case, Power Supply, and Graphics
         Storage
         Keyboard and Mouse
         Monitor
         Ethernet Support, Audio, and Speakers
         Performance
         3D Rendering Tests
         Media Encoding and Authoring
         FutureMark Synthetic Tests
         Direct3D Gaming Tests
         OpenGL Gaming Tests
         Analysis and Conclusion

TOC sections are links in the article, so you can jump to whichever one interests you. Other articles generally have similar layout.

Sidebar links at the same page lead to similar articles:

A DIY Gaming PC for Under $1000
Killer Rigs Shootout
Build It: A Killer System for $800
Build It: Configuring a $1200 Speed Demon

Not in the sidebar, but fairly recently reported: Build a Digital Audio Workstation April 9, 2004. I think this is more of a "home theater controller" than a "sound mastering system," but may be of some interest.

These articles generally run as a "series," sometimes for several months. I think the last one above is the third in the series for that design. It has links to the earlier ones, but you sometimes have to dig for the final installments.

I believe there was a fairly recent one on case selection that had some good links to sources, for when you want something a little off the beaten path. It seems I didn't make notes on that article though.

One of the most recent citations in my newsletter was to how they built a portable system so Joe could take his new n-ty inch flat panel with him when his friends insist on having the tailgate party somewhere besides his house; but I don't have a link handy. Maybe could dig it out later. It could save him a lot of brew if he's having to bribe them to come over for the games.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 03:18 PM

This thread to do with a lost hard drive has stuff that ties in with the discussion on building a new computer from scratch.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 11:51 AM

P.S.--you're also correct that this is evolving into a primer on purchasing new computers--it's always best when a misfortune can generate discussion and knowledge for others. It has only been about 18 months since my last computer purchase (the Dell for the kids) yet so much of the equipment has advanced in the computing world.

I've been having bits of this conversation on two or three threads--software in one venue, hardware in another. I'll add a link or two when I get a moment to go looking for the rest of the discussion.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 11:29 AM

dermod, you make very good points. I've already been under the hood in this new machine to add in the floppy drive. At some point in the future this could well come out, because I plan to convert any old data to CD or other media, then I could reuse this slot, if something else will fit there. This computer can easily expand to 1 gig memory, and I saw the slots for the memory cards while I was in there. I had to purchase the speakers, and I didn't buy the biggest ones out there for a couple of reasons. I have lots of good audio players around the house (and most of it old enough that the burglars didn't head for it first, but it is first quality stuff my Dad bought 10 years ago or more). I picked up a nice little set of speakers and a sub-woofer thing that sound nice and are more than adequate for use here in my office. The stereo that they were stealing but dropped when they were interrupted seems to be intact, and though it wasn't the most expensive out there, it still sounds very good. The part of that system that was damaged was the turntable, dropped open and upside down in their haste to grab and run. The rubber turntable pad is also ripped. I have my reservations about using a turntable that was dropped on it's head. They also ruthlessly ripped some of the cables out of devices and bent at least one plug. I have to figure out what went out the door and replace it. So I'm still looking at connecting systems and making sure everything works the way it is supposed to.

I have to be careful to maintain the appearance that I'm replacing the functionality of the old system (which I am)--should the insurance folks decide that I'm upgrading too much, they'll penalize me by not paying for the entire replacement of the stolen equipment. They'll spend a fraction of what I spent to replace my old system, and begrudge me the fact that the basics are faster and bigger now. What a pain in the backside. My job is to keep track of what I had and not shortchange myself, because no one there is going to say "oh, it looks like your old computer did thus-and-such, have you looking into replacing that bit?"

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Amos
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 06:37 AM

A Mac is a good investment for music or art, and will make you happier over the long term.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:20 AM

As this thread has reached the status of manual for new computer buyers (and very useful too), I ought to chip in my pennyworth from the point of view of somebody who uses the pc mainly for music activities. If you write music and want the computer to give you a good simulation of what real musicians would make of it, you will sooner than later be in the market for sound library programmes and samplers. These use up CPU power big time. They also require lots of RAM. 1G is the recommended minimum these days in the computer music world, and some programmes won't load on less. So if you settle for 512MB, be sure the pc is expandable. Also, if you are likely to want separately powered speakers to replace the rubbish that comes as standard, or a MIDI controller keyboard, make sure you have enough USB ports to go round. Four is the minimum, and even then, you may run short.

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:55 AM

Oh - and you definitely need one of these!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Foolestroupe
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 01:53 AM

I had one of those old huge format beige Tower cases that came halfway between my knee & waist - sigh - wish I had it now...

but you MUST be able to get special cases - I remember that there was a double width style case that allowed heaps of extra drives - second power supply to keep the extra drives alive - big server.... it's hard enough to find QUIET cases of any decent size at the moment...

You might want to bolt that to the desk, or put a ton of concrete inside it... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:03 PM

My HP Pavilion 9870 was a spacious tower with lots of expansion room. That's why I bought it. Today I was looking at the internal hard drives and am so sorry that my old Pavilion is gone, because these are definitely the right price for expansion. My new HP CPU is at least three inches shorter than the 9870. Others like the HP Media Center with two vertical rows of equipment, really hog the space and wouldn't fit any more drives or devices than the Pavilion a820n does. My compromise, since I otherwise like the layout of the new HP, was to purchase an external 3.5" hard drive enclosure. I'll still have to attach it with a USB plug, but I can put a great big internal drive in it. This will serve as my "expansion slot" (I haven't bought a drive for it yet). I have the 120 gig external drive (I got it tonight) that may go back in a week or two, box unopened, and be exchanged for a 200gig drive and I'll pay the difference. That will be my backup. The insurance company is so screwy--I'm afraid they'll dock me more than the value of the 120 gig drive if I try to upgrade now. So I'll get the cash then take the unopened drive back (within the reasonable exchange period) for a tradein.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 09:13 PM

robomatic -

Few of the commonly available PCs come in anything but mini-tower boxes, and many are micro-tower. Very few of them have an available bay for any additional drives, or for a drive enclosure, if you get the common CD/DCD-ROM, CD/DVD-R/RW, and a floppy or zip drive.

There is often an internal space, often with integral rails, for installing an additional hard drive, but a configuration with an externally accessible bay is very rare. Few configurations make the second internal hard drive really usable, since the common accessories use up all the outputs from the EIDE controller, so you nearly always have to add a card to add a hard drive - or much of anything else.

You almost have to build your own to choose a chassis that has an extra bay.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: New Computer & Peripherals--from scratch
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 05:48 PM

SRS:
Another way to handle Hard Drives is to install a hard disk 'inner rack' into one of the 5.25" bays in your PC tower. Your hard drive fits within a small enclosure which slides into the rack. The enclosure gets its power from the PC box itself and contains a cooling fan. This allows you several choices. You can have your main hard drive in this, which means your computer won't boot without it, and you can have several different systems, each within its own hard drive. You can also have a permanently mounted hard drive with system on it, and a second 'plug-in' hard drive which has all your data. The racks are inexpensive and you must have your system powered down in order to mount or dismount the hard drive. I utilize this kind of rack as well as the USB or firewire external drives.