Mudcat history - seeking a resume

Subject: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 03:50 PM

Following our sponsorship of one of the tracks on Martyn Wyndam-Read's Songlinks II, Martyn wants to put up a picture and short biog of every sponsor. In this case the most appropriate picture would be the Mudcat logo, I feel (can anyone provide a JPEG?).

As for the biog - I am a comparatively recent member. Can someone of the older members please provide a summary of the history of Mudcat, its beginnings and development? I can add some stuff about what it means for us catters etc...

George

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 03:57 PM

Jo may have a jpg - but I'd contact Max - he is most likely to have a nice crisp usable one.

Amos's blurb for the Mudcat Cd's could possibly be dissected.

http://tweedsblues.net/mudcd/liners.html

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Amos
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:00 PM

See also Dick Greenhaus' summation of the history of the DT which is intimately connected.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: My guru always said
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:16 PM

El G - I'll email you the best one out of the bunch Jeff sent me for Banbury. If it's not sharp enough I'm sure Jeff or Max will try to send a better one.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 04:17 PM

this post says a lot.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: My guru always said
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 05:16 PM

Thanks for linking that MMario!

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 03:36 AM

Thanks folks - done.

Here's the text I cobbled together, by the way:

The Mudcat Café first opened in 1997 and may well be the best-beloved music forum in the world.   Its website address is in the "favourites" of many a folk music performer or afficionado. Its membership spans the globe with members in North and South America, Britain and mainland Europe, the Far East, Africa and Australia. It reflects voices, thoughts, stories, music and song from all over this remarkable planet, going back hundreds of years to the earliest Gaelic, Welsh, French and English songs and forward to the current week's folk-revival performances. Above all else, the people of the Mudcat sing and play and admire the songs of the human heart.

That so wide a spectrum of people should be brought together in a self-sustaining community anchored by music and song is in itself remarkable. That it should thrive and prosper as well as it has is a testimony to the openness, inclusiveness and warmth of folk music supporters everywhere. As a member said:

"I always wanted to live somewhere like that".
       Join us at www.mudcat.org

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Teresa
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 04:21 AM

Oh, this project is so very exciting. I love the piece on the Mudcat. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST,Mingulay at work
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 05:59 AM

Well written George. It certainly sums it up for me.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:59 AM

What's the tune, George?

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Little Robyn
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:01 PM

You forgot to include New Zealand!!!
DON"T lump us in with Australia!!!!!!
There's about half a dozen mudcatters here.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM

That's excellent, but also remember Iceland (Skarpi and his bandmates) plus Masato in Japan, and ShanghaiCeltic in China!

MMario, thanks for the link to Spaw's...it's still plumb beautiful.

One time, on Mudcat radio, Max talked about how THE Mudcat started out in his basement, or maybe it was Jeff's, before it even was online.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:15 PM

Not quite El Greko.

You have missed out the most important part. Mudcat started as a blues forum and possibly would have remained that way had Dick Greenhaus not lost his host for the dt, Max made DG an offer to take on the several thousand existing songs in the dt.

It is too important a turning point to miss. I don't think anyone can say what MC would have been without Dick's need.

The Digital Tradition does deserve independant credit in your writing.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:22 PM

Dick, the DT, Iceland and New Zealand missing. I'll rewrite.

Bear in mind that with limited space, there is only so much one can say on a poster (which is effectively what this will be on).

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:25 PM

instead of the listing you could say "posters from all seven continents and most major islands"

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:30 PM

El Greko

Possibly something like "and has been host for the excellent dt..." would serve the point I'm trying to make.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:34 PM

George:

Just so people don't get confused, you might want to point out the sources you used, or they might think the writing was your own.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:37 PM

LOL Amos. I think EG is far better a writer than me at any rate.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:44 PM

I think El Greko's description is quite good. Max Spiegel started the Mudcat Folk Music Forum on October 1, 1996. I don't know how long the site was online with blues and other information before that, but the birthday of Mudcat as a community is October 1, 1996.

To honor the Digital Tradition, you might say something like: "Mudcat is home to the Digital Tradition Folk Song Database, a constantly-growing collection of some 9,000 folk song lyrics and tunes that has been maintained by Dick Greenhaus since 1988."

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:52 PM

Cf The Liner Notes from the Mudcat CD project, written in November 2002.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:43 PM

This will go on a poster at the entrance to the venue, next to similar ones from other sponsors, so that the visitors can see who sponsored the project. It will not be published in a booklet or any other form.

The text will not be signed by me or anyone. It is just a generic description of Mudcat, its purpose and history. Indeed, the text is culled from the Liner Notes, from catspaw's note etc interspersed with some of my own thoughts. If we start attributing every statement therein, we will double the length. You could say it's the Mudcatters' description of Mudcat, and leave it at that.

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:50 PM

El Greko:

Don't misunderstand me. I don't mind if you save space by not attributing anything on your poster!!

I was raised, however, to respect intellectual honesty about who wrote what. Thanks.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:54 PM

I sent an amendment. It now reads as follows:

The Mudcat Café first opened in 1996 and may well be the best-beloved music forum in the world.   Its website address is in the "favourites" of many a folk music performer or afficionado. Its membership spans the globe with members in North and South America, Britain and mainland Europe, Iceland, the Far East, Africa, Australia and New Zealand. It reflects voices, thoughts, stories, music and song from all over this remarkable planet, going back hundreds of years to the earliest Gaelic, Welsh, French and English songs and forward to the current week's folk-revival performances. Above all else, the people of the Mudcat sing and play and admire the songs of the human heart.

The Mudcat Café also hosts the Digital Tradition Folk Song Database, a constantly-growing collection of some 9,000 folk song lyrics and tunes that has been maintained by Dick Greenhaus since 1988.

That so wide a spectrum of people should be brought together in a self-sustaining community anchored by music and song is in itself remarkable. That it should thrive and prosper as well as it has is a testimony to the openness, inclusiveness and warmth of folk music supporters everywhere. As a member said:

"I always wanted to live somewhere like that".
       Join us at www.mudcat.org

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:56 PM

I'm not trying to get technical here, but I'm sincerely asking:
ARE there 'Catters here now from South America and from Africa?

Were there 'Catters from such nations before and they are no longer posting?

And are there [were there previously] any 'Catters from the Caribbean and the Pacific islands?

I for one would LOVE it if there were Mudcatters from those parts of the world.


Azizi



Azizi

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:22 PM

we one semi-regular poster from Argentina...

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:25 PM

here's how it started

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:28 PM

Escamillo is in Buenos Aires, and I once communicated with a South African catter (though it might have been a GUEST, I cannot remember his handle now).

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 07:34 PM

Thanks for that link BillD - humbling stuff.
Puts some of the BS threads into perspective, dunnit?

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM

I have considered a project to document when BS really got started...and when it got out of hand! *grin*

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:08 PM

My recollection is that the "BS" label started fairly recently - but then I'm old enough that anything I can vaguely remember seems pretty recent. Sometimes I remember things I never even knew. (But how to put more than 256 files on a single floppy, I knew, and remember.)

John

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:14 PM

the BS label is recent...BS maybe started when 'spaw's gaseous emissions got to be regular...*grin*

(" ... more than 256 files on a single floppy...") we had "Stacker"..still have the box & software

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:17 PM

El Greko,
re your post on 02 Mar 05 - 07:28 PM

An African American Greek letter sorority chant comes to mind:

"Calling all Deltas to the floor
I've got one and need some more"

That's what I feel about the scarcity of 'Catters of Black descent.

Too bad we can't mount some concerted effort somewhat like a marketing campaign to inform people of color [and others] about this site.

Mudcat is such a rich resource and such an interesting community to visit and belong to. I just think that Mudcat [and Mudcatters] could benefit from having a more racially diverse membership.

I've been here for 7 months and I'm personally trying to encourage people I know to visit this website and join this community. One of my girlfriend has recently joined. For the most part she's lurking..I've also told others about this site, including public mention of it at an interracial Black History month dicussion on Saturday..

I hope other people are doing the same.

Azizi

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 08:23 PM

Don't need Stacker. The root folder has to be in track 0 on a FAT12 (floppy) or FAT16 drive, and the track is a fixed size and only holds 124 or 256 entries, depending on which format it is. Make one folder in root, and put all the files in it, and you can have as many as you want, since a subfolder can grow as needed.

But I think Spaws first gaseous emissions probably were the result of all the BS he was ingesting here. I've heard rumors he used to be a real nice guy. But there's that memory thing again, so maybe not.

John

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: open mike
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:40 PM

here is what this is about
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=74303

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 11:29 PM

With you 101%, Azizi. Probably easier in the US than in Britain, though there's always a chance of attracting the Caribbean contigent through interest in their traditional music; again we'd need US help, as I think that Caribbean shanties, for example, are better known there. At least I only ever heard some of them through NexTradition's singing (half of which is our own Nancy King's son).

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 01:06 AM

I'm interested in the history of Mudcat as well as the present dicussion forum/online community.

And because this thread is about history, I won't continue a discussion about what racial/ethnic groups are or aren't represented on Mudcat now, and what to do about it.

That being said, El Greko, I appreciate your 02 Mar 05 - 11:29 PM post.

Azizi

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 01:34 AM

Thanks Mario.....That link even escaped my memory, but it certainly was true then. The BS seems to have left the building though in the way we knew it then and has become a far more political thing now. I think this may have begun to change after 9/11 and the ineptness and stupidity of The Shrub in his inability to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or a 7 foot Saudi on dialysis in the Afghan mountains.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 01:57 AM

Yes, please include Pacific Islands.   Hawaii is part of the United States but definitely not part of North America. And don't forget Brett (Naemanson), our temporary (?) Guamanian.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 08:20 AM

I wish someone could get a grant to be the Mudcat Historian and Editor. There's a wealth of cultural and social material of great quality in these threads (as well as enough crap to drown a camel).

There have been several proposals for turning it al;l into an edited book but it is overwhelming as a volunteer effort and no-one has come up with a paying version! Likewise the historical reconstruction, which would be of interest.

A

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 08:33 AM

IMHO, the period from June 10 to June 25th, 2005 was a very significant time in Mudcat history.

I am specifically referring to this thread: For Real I Quit .

That thread began on June 10th, 2005 at 7:50PM with Martin Gibson's announcement that he was leaving Mudcat. As a result of the Mudcat server crashing June 15th {or so}, JennyO's June 11th post is shown as the first comment to this thread.

"For real I quit" reached its 1,000 post on June 25th, 2005 {frogprince; 09:26 PM}. As I write this post, people are still posting to that "For Real I quit" thread. But hopefully it is winding down.

I will take the liberty of quoting Freda Underhill's description of that thread:

"congratulations! what a great achievement! this thread is like the proverbial lotus - roots in the mud - stem rising through muddy waters, finally to reach the sunlight"

-snip-

One result of reaching the 1,000th posts for that thread, was an almost immediate burst of threads with creative imitative names in the grand ole Mudcat tradition. Among those 14 or so threads are are "For Real, I quilt" {started by frogprince}; "Four reel-life squid" {started by JennyO}, "4 eels 1 quid" {started by Freda Underhill}, and "For real I squirt" {started by Guest, sMartin Girthsome}.

'Catters who have been here longer may have other thread experiences that they consider to be highly significant for one reason or another. But-so far-the "For Real I quit" thread 'takes the cake' for me.



Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 08:43 AM

Other 'Catters and Guests who are interested in astrology, may want to know about & study the astrological placements for the October 1, 1996 birthdate of Mudcat that Joe Offer provides in his 02:44 PM post in this thread.

According to Neil F. Michelsen "The American Emphemeris for the 20th Century", revised 5th edition {revisions by Rique Pottenger},
those placements are:


Sun      Libra 8
Moon    Gemini 4
Mercury Virgo 20
Venus    Leo 26
Mars    Leo 13
Jupiter Capricorn 9
Saturn   Aries 3 Retrograde
Uranus   Aquarius 0 Retrograde
Neptune Capricorn 24 Retrograde
Pluto    Sagittarius `
North
Node    Libra 7

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 08:51 AM

As an aside, and as an idea for a research project for those who have that interest and skill, I am struck by the fact that I have exact or close astrological connections to the Mudcat birthday placements listed above.

I wonder if this is the case with other persons who have been 'drawn' to Mudcat and have regularly posted here in the past, or who continue to regularly post here.

Note that I have the interest but not the skill level to do 'real' astrological synastry charts. But I've been known to practice on my family and friends. {**bg**}



Azizi

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: mooman
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 09:37 AM

As a complement to Azizi's post, my ephemeris software for the exact location, midday, on that date yields the following (very close to Azizi's ephemeris figures):

Sun      Libra 9
Moon    Gemini 4
Mercury Virgo 21
Venus    Leo 27
Mars    Leo 13
Jupiter Capricorn 9
Saturn   Aries 4 Retrograde
Uranus   Aquarius 1 Retrograde
Neptune Capricorn 25 Retrograde
Pluto    Sagittarius 1
AC       Libra 20
MC       Cancer 24

I'll let an expert interpret the chart!

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Mudcat history - seeking a resume
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 27 Jun 05 - 10:45 AM

Thanks, mooman!

I would trust the accuracy of your software rather than the book version that I referred to.

As an amateur astrologer, I certainly think that that natal chart for Mudcat Discussion Forum fits, particularly the air sign Sun & Moon and the communication sign {Mercury} in the detail oriented, list making "Service-to-the people!" sign of Virgo.

As an example of what I was referring to when I said that many of my natal signs are closely connected to these placements, my Rising sign is 20 degrees Virgo, my Mars is 4 degrees Virgo, my Venus is 20 degrees Capricorn, and my Part of Fortune is 21 degrees Cancer.

****

I have my thoughts on what this means, but {in agreement with Mooman}, I'll let an expert publicly interprete the Mudcat chart and {for what it's worth} what the synastry connections between my chart and the Mudcat chart {and other 'Catters' natal charts ??} might mean...


Azizi