Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.

Subject: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: Anglogeezer
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 04:25 PM

The Website for the Department of Culture Media and Sport at www.culture.gov.uk/global/press_notices/archive_2005/dcms040_05.htm?properties=archive%5F2005%2C%2Fcreative%5Findustries%2FQuick
is displaying a press notice announcing a twelve week consultation period which will end on 10 th June 2005.

All interested in the live music scene are invited to conntact the "Live Music Forum" at [e-mail] to give their views on ways to strengthen live music in the UK.

Is this an opportunity for a sustained campaign on the effects of the new regulations on grass roots acoustic music??

regards

Jake

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 03:47 AM

Anbody got a simple explanation of how this will affect festivals like mine with no licenced premises or landlord and for which I have succesfully been getting drink and entertainment licences for years at reasonable cost.

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:25 AM

Miskin Man,

As I understand it, you should be able to get a "one off" licence fairly easily, but I have no idea what the fee might be.

The PRS may also demand their tithe, about £7.50 per session, I believe, and, at the moment you can't get them to accept that trad is not their concern. They seem to be saying that even if a song is out of copyright, the arrangement used probably is not, so they demand their pound of flesh on all live performance.

Drinks licence, I don't know, but if you normally use a local pub to do the beer on an occasional licence, I should think that will not have changed.

All the above are related to the new law, which will not be fully in force until the end of the transition period (about November next). Currently, people are operating under the old (two in a bar), and with luck, and an intelligent attitude from your local council, you should be O.K. until then.

Even the mad sods who produced this travesty can't agree about what it actually says, or means. They talk about small, impromptu sessions being exempt, but, according to several well respected lawyers that is not so in the actual wording of the act itself.

Hope this helps

Don T.

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 09:18 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: oombanjo
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 09:31 AM

Cheers Jake I have filed this thread so I can pick up on it later

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 09:35 AM

http://www.culture.gov.uk/global/press_notices/archive_2005/dcms040_05.htm?month=March&properties=archive%5F2005%2C%2Fglobal%2Fpress%5Fnotices%2F%2C

Not sure if the above link to the Press Release works but this (shortened) one should.

http://tinyurl.com/42otx

040/05
10 March 2005
Music To Your Ears – The Industry Gets A Say
The British music industry is being invited to say what it thinks the Government should be doing to nurture and promote live music, Arts Minister Estelle Morris announced today.

It is the first time the industry has been asked directly to give its opinion on what can be done to strengthen live music in the UK. The consultation is being led by the Live Music Forum – a group, chaired by Feargal Sharkey, which was set up at the beginning of 2004 to ensure live music thrives.

Over the next few months the Forum will be seeking the views of everyone from major record companies to jobbing musicians.

The resulting discussions and ideas will help shape a detailed report which will be submitted to the Government at the end of the Live Music Forum's lifespan in 2006. The report will feature a series of recommendations to the Government designed to maintain the UK's live music scene as one of the most diverse and vibrant in the world.

Estelle Morris said:
"From the Beatles at the Caven Club, to George Melly at Ronnie Scott's, to Norma Waterson at the Cambridge Folk Festival we have a live music reputation to be proud of.
"But it's a tradition to live up to and build on. That's why we're calling on the music industry – help us to help you.

"Tell us what we can do to get more gigs and concerts put on throughout the UK in every genre of music."
Feargal Sharkey, Chairman of the Live Music Forum, said:
"It's no accident that this year's Brit Awards were dominated by acts who all cut their teeth on the live circuit. Franz Ferdinand, Joss Stone and Muse have proved what many of us in the music industry already knew – that we have one of the most vibrant music scenes in the world and live music is at the heart of it.
"It's in the industry's interest to get involved with the work of the Forum and come and tell us what they think the Government should be doing to safeguard the future of the live music scene.
"There are no rules. No idea will be too sensational. For the first time the industry is getting the opportunity to influence Government policy – and I whole heartedly recommend they use it."

Notes to Editors
1. The consultation will last for twelve weeks until 10 June 2005. The Live Music Forum will invite people from all areas of the music industry in the give their views. To get in touch with the Forum to request a meeting or to send in your views, email [e-mail]

The Live Music Forum was set up in January 2004. As well as working with partners across the live music world to ensure they make the most of the opportunities offered by the Licensing Act the Forum also looks at a range of ways to promote live music and foster grass roots talent.
Press Enquiries: 0207 211 6271
Out of hours telephone pager no: 07699 751153
Public Enquiries: 0207 211 6200

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 12:14 PM

I have sent the following:

"Both to help ensure a burgeoning body of musicians (and singers) who can actually perform, and indeed to assist in the retention of a body of musicians (and singers) who are in touch with the true roots of this country's musical spirit, the need for there to be a licence to perform music without (or substantially without) electrical or electronic amplification in (a) private and/or (b) premises that otherwise require to be licensed under the licensing laws and already are so licensed should immediately be removed.

Measures should also be introduced to remove the dead hand of the PRS from the so-called "singaround" or "session" that is to say performances that take place without (or substantially without) such amplification, are substantially participative, and are largely of music or song that is either traditional or written and or composed by the or some of the participants themselves."

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM

Thanks for the response, The one off licence is what I had been led to believe was the way in the future, and with my clean record there shouldnt be a problem. Drinks licence: for the last few years I have been granted "Ocasional Permissions" to cover the 4 days required I provide my own beer and staff in a usually unlicensed premises.
The PRS are not a problem as I see it and are just used as someone else to complain about. What is £7.50 per session, less than I personally spend on beer during the same session.
Your feelings are about the same as mine then, I should be alright. The independant non pub based festival/event is not something I have seen mentioned anywhere so I thought I would start the ball rolling. I have all the relevant licences/permissions etc for this year so here's to the future.
Andy

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: ET
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 03:55 PM

I appreciate what has been said and have sent this :-

Publicise to publicans that the inclusion in the Operating Schedule of live music, sessions, jazz, folk or whatever, costs no more, no PEL is needed, no onerous conditions ought to be attached and if properly described will not incur the wrath of the authorities. All these things are poorly understood by landlords.

Otherwise music will suffer greatly, and so will pubs. Other than vertical drinking establishments for the habitual 18 year old binge drinker, pubs will become barren deserts unable to compete with supermarkets open 24 hours, and that dreadful adage "staying in is the new going out" will become a reality. Music gives a pub character and makes it worth leaving the TV and cheap tins of larger at home for.

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 04:39 PM

ET, the government publicises that onerous condition s ought not to be attached, but the acoustic semi-exemption requires that all conditions of a licence to permit music need to be observed before some of htem can be disapplied - so I believe that councils will have the power to require the feared new loos and treble glazing air conditioning and bouncers and crush barrieers, so that a licence including permission to perform music may be granted. THere is nothing but the threat of litigation that the councils can afford buyt landlords cannot to prevent this obvious scenario.

Remember - no snowball fights or someone might sue the school!

Not really proof-read.

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: ET
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 05:43 PM

I agree of course that your legal interpretation is correct but the wrteched DCMS has asked for views on music and it is certainly true that many licences are greatly troubled by this legislation and do not understand it. Here in Yorkshire for example the many officials to look after the new law have been established at council tax payers expense and to their surpise have received about 1% of the applications expected. This is because the application form under the new "deregulation" act has gone from 1 page and £30 per 3 years to about 20 pages (with spelling errors and missing partsd, goodness knows what cost increase and many are more than a bit nervous about filling the wretched thing in! Any help over the music bit might help?

It is concerning to note that the Government have not, as yet, actually set up the second commencement date. Much speculation around November 2005 but date not yet actually set in stone.

However the 6th Agust 2005 has been set for applications that will receive "grandparent" rights - that is existing terms and conditions and for existing licensees - missing this date could prove costly.

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: RichardP
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:15 PM

Miskin Man,

You have to be aware for next year that, although a temporary event notice will be the appropriate route for a licence, it will be necessary for the application to name a holder of a personal licence as the premises supervisor. Every Pub Landlord will hold one as will some other pub staff and other people, but one must be found.

Is there an opening here for some folkies to get licensed and hence to trade off free access to such events as a friendly licensed supervisor? Not me though!

Richard

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: Tig
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 06:12 PM

I'm already getting my Personal Licence courtesy of Magician so I can look after the Watering Hole whilst he is away. Now Miskin Man for a small consideration ........

Subject: RE: Feedback on the New Licensing Laws.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 06:31 PM

Remember the entertainment element is just the tip of the iceberg as far as landlords are concerned.

Many are employing soliciters because they are finding the process too complicated.

I have heard of one licensing officer in London telling a landlord that he could only apply for the permissions that he had under the old license and would have to put in a separate application to vary it for any extras. What hope do we have if confused landlords get advice like that from "experts"