Why Wood Doesn't Matter

Subject: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: John Hardly
Date: 03 May 05 - 07:07 PM

I used to think all those little details (like wood, shape, size, adornment, etc.) mattered to the sound of the guitar. Then I had an experience that has imprinted me forever. Here's my story.

I own the cheapest guitar ever made -- a plywood 1969 Yamaha FG140. I used to think that it sounded really good...

....but it sorta lacked, I don't know, punch. I heard that to increase it's power it'd have to have a longer scale length (it's 25") -- well, what with the neck being of fixed length, I determined I'd have to remove the bridge and set it back further.

Well, then the intonation just sucked.

So I figured out (through some careful measuring) that all the frets were now in the wrong places relative to the scale length. So I then decided that, as it would hack up the current fretboard too much to just cut for new frets -- I replaced the whole fretboard.

Then suddenly, the bridge, in its new placement, started to pull up. Seems there's suppose to be some sorta bracing right under the bridge!. It was then that I realized (for the first time) that the top was not actually spruce -- rather it was spruce plywood - the same thing (albeit thinner) that I just put down in my bathroom for subflooring.

That just wouldn't do.

So I bought myself a new top. Sadly, the only tops I could find available were Martin tops, available through a kit. I ordered the top.

Well this was just getting ridiculous -- the top didn't fit my Yamaha. It seems that, though the "FG" looks like a drednaught, it is in fact, not.

Fortunately, the kit from which I had taken the new top, had a new back and sides in it -- and they fit.

I was just botching the assembly something awful so, mid-project, I sent my Yamaha to a reputable luthier. A few weeks into the project he called me. He said that, as long as he was working on the guitar, would I like to have a new neck put on behind that new fretboard.

"Sure" says I.

The Yamaha has open back tuners -- no kidding -- who knew they'd become the vintage rage again? But sadly, they were in really bad shape. I had the luthier replace them with some other open-back tuners (Waverlys).   I wanted to keep my Yamaha original.


Then my luthier friend called me up and said that, as long as my Yamaha was all disassembled at this point, I could have him put some cool herringbone trim, some handsome flamed maple purfling, and a little ablaone accent cut around the soundhole.

I asked him if that would change the sound of my Yamaha. He sounded puzzled by my question at first, but them replied (with some hesitation) that he didn't think so.

I gave him the go-ahead.

Well, I gotta tell you my Yamaha FG140 sounds GREAT!! In fact, I own a fine Martin and this Yamaha sounds just as good!

....and I can only tell you all - think twice before you tell anyone that Yamaha doesn't make some really great guitars.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Bill D
Date: 03 May 05 - 07:24 PM

well, that's wonderful...I know a guy once who owned George Washington's axe!

Of course, it had had 4 new handles and 2 new heads, but it sure was great to have such a special tool.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: frogprince
Date: 03 May 05 - 09:10 PM

That hasta be the truth; nobody can make up anything that funny.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: GUEST,banjoman
Date: 04 May 05 - 06:42 AM

Sounds about as plausible as the factory in Liverpool where they knitted kettles from steel wool. The only Yamaha I've ever played about on had two wheels and handlebars, but it made a far better sound than most Martins, in fact I once tried to trade in a Martin for a Yamaha but nobody believed me.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:40 AM

Enjoyed your tale, John. Thanks for posting.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:23 AM

Seriously thoiugh, there are lots of new materials being considered for guitar manufacturing. Better living through science.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:38 AM

Thanks Leeneia!

Bill D, As I understand it, only a small percentage has to be original for a piece to be considered an "authentic antique". In the case of that ax, the part of the axe that is original is the "essence" part. The replacement parts still occupy the same space that the old parts would have continued to occupy had they not worn out. And since the laws of physics tell us that two things cannot simultaneously occupy the same space, it must be so.

Or maybe it's just "if I can think it I can believe it".

I can see it now -- a sign over an Inn door, "George Washington essentially slept here because he would have if it had been built in colonial times and he had passed this way and he might have needed a night's sleep.

That's essentially the same as "George Washington slept here".

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: GUEST,mr softy
Date: 04 May 05 - 01:21 PM

you try telling my dirty old mrs that

"Wood dont matter"

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: old head
Date: 04 May 05 - 03:29 PM

My grandfather made a fiddle out of perspex,{that he got from a german plane,shot down in N. Ireland,during the 2nd. world war}. I saw and heard it in the 60's and it sounded pretty good. Wood does matter tho.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 May 05 - 04:30 PM

Great tale-telling, John. Put it on a CD!

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 May 05 - 07:14 PM

Love your story, John. I especially liked the 'hesitation' in the luthier's voice. LOL

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 05 - 08:39 PM

Great story, John. Had a car just like that once.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:45 PM

Very funny story, John--and I needed a good laugh today!

In a similar vein, Buckminster Fuller used to ask how it was that we aged, since all of our cells were being constantly replaced?

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 May 05 - 02:20 PM

Very enjoyable and funny story, but it also raises some more-or-less serious questions.

John Hardly said yesterday:

"Bill D, As I understand it, only a small percentage has to be original for a piece to be considered an "authentic antique". In the case of that ax, the part of the axe that is original is the "essence" part.

I'm reminded that Martin Gibson once contended ~ seriously, I think ~ that installing a replacement pickguard on my vintage D-18 would somehow devalue it, robbing it of its "all-original" character.

That's pretty hard to accept; the 30+-year-old pickguard was curling up around all its edges, looked terrible, and posed an actual risk of catching a pick or fingernail while playing ~ hardly an "asset"! Slapping on an identical made-by-Martin replacement part not only made my guitar more presentable and marginally more playable, but surely also enhanced ~ or at least preserved ~ its value. (Not that I'm selling, anyway, but still...)

On one extreme, consider the strings on a guitar. Installing replacement strings and discarding the "original equipment" is never considered a desecration or devaluation, right? Other incidental parts are just as accidental, even though they might last thirty months or thirty years rather than thirty days before requiring replacement: the aforementioned pickguard, for one thing, as well as, say, bridge pins, nuts and saddles, perhaps tuning machines, even (eventually) frets. Replacing such components is sometimes just part of maintaining your instrument.

So, seriously, perhaps "wood does matter" insofar as its basic wooden structure is the one thing that determines an instrument's identity or "essence." You can replace most of the other gewgaws attached to this or that part of the wood without making it into a new and different instrument, but when you start swapping out tops and necks and soundboxes, well, it becomes debatable whether you still have the same "axe" (as in George Washington's legendary axe, which has had 5 handle replacements and a couple of new heads).

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 May 05 - 03:29 PM

Vintage guitars in their original state do command higher prices. As with any antique, condition is everything. That's not to say changing a cracked or deformed pickguard is a bad thing. First and foremost, guitars make music and if a bad pickguard affected the playability of the instrument, that would devalue it also. What's important when changing or replacing something on a vintage instrument, is that it is the correct replacement. Keeping a guitar as close to it's original condition with the exact replacement is paramount to not letting it fall into "modified" status. this includes changing tuners, especially. Strings, of course do not count.

The less original an antique is, the less it's value.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 May 05 - 03:44 PM

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terrific stuff John! Sorry I didn't see this before. Makes me feel good and I'll tell you why. Just the other day I got a PM from another 'Catter basocally bemoaning the fat that the quality of BS has diminished around here. I won't mention the 'Catter's name but I certainly agreed with their ideas. Here is what the PM said and I think you'll see first why I agreed and second that THIS piece of work of yours is as deserving or moreso of praise as anything ever written around the joint. Here it is::

"The sheer creativity in the humorous writing in the fart thread you revived compared to its current counterpart is jarring.

In the old thread someone name margo wrote a pants-wettingly funny bit that went unacknowledged because the whole thread was nearly equally funny.

The new thread is like...

...it's always driven me just a bit crazy (a short drive if ever was) that so many could laugh for so long at so little ..... and the SAME OLD so little. Like GAS (guitar acquisition syndrome). It wasn't really funny to me the first time, but it was honest-to-god the only humor you could find among guitar players for a good two years. STILL, someone is bound to use the acronym yet again as though everyone in the whole dang world hasn't already heard it.

I used to feel as though the humor on the mudcat was on a par with Lehrer, Paxton (at his best), Breckman, Freberg. I don't see that much creative humor anymore -- mostly just parroting of old stuff. Maybe all the tin foil helmets stunt humor."


Obviously John Hardly threw awaym his tin-foil helmet!!!!Now if you MUST drag this down into a serious discussion, first try this old Rosewood Thread

Spaw

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 05 - 04:10 PM

It's about time.

Great stuff, JH, but you should warn folks that are on diuretics before posting such as this. I think I will make a new rule ........

Funny as hell!!

Mick

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: John Hardly
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:35 PM

aw shucks, guys. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 May 05 - 11:04 AM

Yama..ha..ha..ho..ho..he..he
Luv it

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Dr. Guitar
Date: 06 May 05 - 11:18 AM

Dear Mr Hardly,

My dear fellow! Are you trying to put this poor old medic out of work? I concur, of course, and I think you may well be adopting the mantle of my worthy successor with this fine case study!

You needn't have sent the work to a reputable luthier. I would most naturally have performed the necessary surgery for a most modest consideration!

Yours most sincerely as always!

Dr. Guitar

P.S. My dearest Ebbie... I think you are "hesitating" too and can only assume that you have been peeking at those sites. I do belive it is getting close to the time for your annual checkup!

Dr. G

Subject: RE: Why Wood Doesn't Matter
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:31 PM

blush