I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes

Subject: I'm Rubber . Your Glue;Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:50 AM

IMO, children's rhymes are a little respected, and usually neglected folk art that can provide unique perspectives on the lives, interests, concerns, expectations, hopes, and fears of children.

I'm interested in collecting examples of children's rhymes whose words include teases; taunts, put downs; come backs; and smart remarks.

An example of a put down rhyme is this one that I heard recited by various African American girls, approximate ages 8-10 years {Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; 2000-2003}.

I'M RUBBER. YOU'RE GLUE
I'm rubber. You're glue.
What you say
bounces off me
and sticks to YOU.

-snip-

No handclaps or other actions accompanied this rhyme, though I imagine that it could be included in a handclap rhyme or a foot stomping cheer.

****

An example of a smart remark rhyme is this foot stomping cheer that I collected from African American girls {approximate ages 9-12 years old; Braddock, Pennnsylvania, 1985}:

TWO WAY PASS AWAY
Group              Two way pass away
                   Two way pass away
Soloist #1         (Well) my name is Kayla
Group               Two way pass away
Soloist #1         And if you don't like it
Group               Two way pass away
Soloist #1         You can kiss what I twist
Group               Two way pass away
Soloist #1         And I don't mean my wrist.

{This rhyme accompanies a steady, bass sounding, syncopated foot stomping {individual}handclapping routine. The entire cheer is repeated until every member of the group has had one turn as soloist. Each sololist substitutes her name or nickname}.

****

I am interested in collecting these rhymes and documenting their words, category, peformance directions, if any. For the folkloric, historical record, I am also interested in documenting the demographics of these rhymes {who says them {girls, boys, race/ethnicity; age of children and/or youth}; where {city/state and nation if outside of the USA}; and when they were recited {approximate years such as 1960s or 1990s}.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am working on a book on children's rhymes and may be seeking posters' permission to use examples and any accompanying commentary from their posts.

When ever possible, I am interested in including in that publisned collection documentation of the race/ethnicity of these rhymes because -generally speaking-it appears from my research thus far that there are some differences between the types of rhymes known to and recited by children of different races/ethnicities.

Thank you for any help you can give me in documenting the existence of teasing/putdown rhymes, or any other sub-set of children's rhymes that you remember or may have recently heard from children around you.


Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 May 05 - 09:11 AM

One 'family' of children's rhymes that I'm particularly interested in is the 'Ink stink' rhymes.

Here are two examples from that family of children's rhymes:

Ink stink.
A bottle of ink.
Somebody let out
an awful stink.
It was Y-O-U!

{from my memories of my childhood in Atlantic City, New Jersey,1950s and various other children 1970-2002, including 8 year old African American girl, Fort Pitt Elementary School, Pittsburgh, Penn. 2002; }

I remember the first four lines being said when someone farted, also known as 'letting out wind' and 'passing gas'.

The addition of the last line marks this as an elimination rhyme that was used to choose "It" in hide and go seek and other chasing games.

This example was given as part of my daughter's second grade class room's assignment to recite 'choosing It' rhymes.

****

Stunk in the barnyard. **
Pee yew!
Who did it come from?
From you.

{8 year old African American boy, Fort Pitt Elementary School,
Pittsburgh, Penn. 2002; classroom assignment to recite 'Choosing It" rhymes}

** Although in this case, the boy clearly said 'stunk', I'm wondering if other people say 'Skunk in the barnyard. Pee yew!"


Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 20 May 05 - 09:47 AM

Happy Birthday to you.

You belong in the zoo.

*

Silence in the courtroom! The monkey wants to speak.

Whoever speaks now is the monkey for a week.

The monkey's in the courtroom, eating a bowl of beans,

While ----'s on the toilet, sinking submarines.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: You have to die of something. :||

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 May 05 - 10:05 AM

Thanks for posting your examples Joe!

I remember the "Happy Birthday to you' rhyme as:

Happy Birthday to you.
You live in the zoo.
You look like a monkey.
And you smell like one too.

****

I also vaguely remember a rhyme that said "Order in the court!"
I'm not sure if it was the same as your silence in the court.

Does anybody else remember any "Order [Silence] in the court" rhymes?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Abby Sale
Date: 20 May 05 - 10:52 AM

I remember "I'm rubber. You're glue." from grade school in the late 40's. This was among white (mixed ethnic) boys on Long Island. It was a response to some slight, of course. Same as "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me." I recall we always had the feeling, having said the latter (much more defiantly) that retreat was indicated. There was the (mandatory) expectation that the other would then look around for some sticks and stones. Seemed only natural. "I'm rubber," on the other hand, was not seen as defiant and was more of a "sour grapes," surrender response.

Now that I think of this, I've seen a number of write-ups of this stuff (the Opies and Lib of Congress "Afro-American Blues & Game songs" and English Folk-Rhymes_, GF Northall come to mind) but I don't recall much of any discussion of the emotional content & force of the stuff. When is it serious and when is it clearly formulaic or just kidding?

You might make something of that. Maybe.

If you come across it, I'd be very, very interested to learn the game song (and how it was played) that Len Chandler & Bob Kaufman collected in Alabama (or New Orleans) that became "Green Rocky Road."

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 May 05 - 11:41 AM

Order in the court room!
Monkey wants to speak!
Speak, monkey, speak!


And the first to speak is the monkey. Used in our family car for years in an attempt to keep five battling kids quiet.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 May 05 - 11:48 AM

A sailor went to the sea sea sea
To see what he could see see see
But all that he could see see see
Was the bottom of the deep blue sea sea sea.

This was a ball bouncing song with the ball passed under your leg for sea and see. Also used in a hand clapping game.

Another one:
A my name is Alice and my husband's name is Al. We come from Alabama and we sell apples.
B my name is Bernice and my husband's name is Bob...you get the idea.

The ball was passed under the leg for the letter and the names beginning with the letter.




From 9 year old boys:
Who slit the sheets?
I slit the sheets.
Whoever slit the sheets
Is a good sheet slitter

One smart fellow, he felt smart
Two smart fellows they felt smart
Three smart fellows
They all felt smart

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:01 PM

Made you look
Made you look
You stole your mother's pocket book (or penny book)

after telling someone they they had a stain on their blouse or their shoelace was untied.

One that went on forever and I forget the beginning:

I went to Japan
To see a man
He gave me a nickle to buy a pickle
The pickle was sour
So I bought a flower
The flower was dead so I bought a bed
The bed was broke so I bought a rope
The rope was

It went on until "out goes Y-O-U.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:04 PM

Thanks for your examples, Abby.

I was taught 'Sticks and Stones' in the 1950s. I recall this rhyme being taught to children by adults who wanted to reduce the hurt that was likely to occur when children became the victims of name-calling {including racial slurs}. I don't remember children ever using in any exchange with peers.

And Abby, thank you also for the resources that you cited. I am interested in the questions that you raised about "the emotional content & force of the stuff. When is it serious and when is it clearly formulaic or just kidding?"

With regard to the song "Green Green Rocky Road", I remember 'being introduced' to the African American singer Odetta by way of a record she made that included this song. And one day a long time ago [1980s?]I caught the tail end of a Sesame Street segment that had African American children chanting this rhyme while performing a line game {2 verticle lines with an 'alley' in the middle like the 'The Soul Train Line"}.

The closest version of that song I have ever found is "Oh, Green Fields, Roxie". That song is included in "Step It Down" Bessie Jones and Bess Lomax Hawes' 1972 book on African American children's game songs & rhymes from the Georgia Sea Islands {published by theUniv. of Georgia Press, pps 74-75}. However, instead of 'Roxie", the word {actually the phrase} I thought I heard in the Odetta record and TV segment was was 'rocky road'.

Bess Lomax Hawes writes that this is an adaptation of British song "Green grow the rushes, oh". Though Hawes didn't say so, it appears that "Roxie" {a girl's personal nickname or name from "Roxanne"} and "Rocky Road" are examples of folk etymology.

BTW, I checked the DT under that title and also under 'Green Fields Roxie' and didn't get any hits.

While "Oh Green Field, Roxie" isn't a put-down rhyme and may actually 'belong' in the thread on African American secular folk songs, I don't have a problem with including the words to that children's game song in this thread.

ADD: OH GREEN FIELDS ROXIE

"Step It Down",
Bessie Jones & Bess Lomax Hawes, pp. 74-75

Lead Singer               Group Voices
Oh green fields.          Roxie

Oh green fields.          Roxie

Tell me who you love,    Roxie

Tell me who you love,    Roxie

{Lead voice solo}

Ph Miss {Mabel}your
name is called,
Come take as seat right side
your love,
Shake his hand and let him go
Don't let him sit in that chair
no more.

-snip-

Notes from book "..When accompanied by a solid offbeat clap, thiscan be the most jazzily rhythnic of all Mrs Jones' plays.

Form: Ring of children standing and clapping. In the middle of the ring is a chair with a player sitting in it. The 'caller' who leads the singing, stands by the chair.

[first line & second line] All players clap

[third line] caller leans over to player in the chair, who
             whisper the name of another player to the caller

Directions given for lead voice solo:
Caller sings the whispered name.
Player called struts to chair, shakes hands eith player in chair
and sits down. First player dances back to the ring and the game is repeated without pause."

-snip-   

As you can see the performance instruction for version of the song is much different than what I remember from the television segment that I saw.

FWIW, I don't recall this game at all from my childhood. And I have never seen it performed or mentioned among African American children in the Pittsburgh, Penn. area {1969-2005}.



Ms. Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:12 PM

Sinsull-Thanks! I just PM'ed you.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:15 PM

Ugh!!

Correction: "Oh Miss {Mabel}... in "Oh Green Fields, Roxie"

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:19 PM

Re: the "I made you look" rhyme

When I was growing up in the 1950s, Atlantic City, New Jersey,
I remember kids saying;

I made you look,
You dirty crook.
You stole your mother's pocket book.
You turned it in
You turned it out
You turned it into
a saurkraut.

{This was played the same way Sinsull remembers}

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 20 May 05 - 01:04 PM

Children's rhymes are a wonderful example of the oral tradition. They are passed along from kid to kid for decades, even centuries, with very little variation - certainly less variation than folk songs. If a kid makes a change in a rhyme, he will be considered wrong by his peers and they will let him know.


Children's rhymes have been collected by many people, especially Ben Bodkin, but kids never learn them from a written source.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 20 May 05 - 10:39 PM

In the fifties in Detroit, Michigan, white kids said:
I'm rubber, you're glue
Everything you say
Bounces off me and sticks on YOU!

Order in the courthouse
Monkey wants to speak.
First one to speak is a monkey for a week.
Speak, Monkey, speak.
(which often led to some smart aleck saying the original speaker was the monkey)

Chosing rhymes:
Ein, zwei, drei, horsengoggles.

One potato, two potato, three potato, four
Five potato, six potato, seven potato, you're....OUT!

And on Einie meenie miney moe, we would end it with
...let him go. My mother says to choose the very best one, so
O...U...T spells out you GO!


Cry baby cry,
Stick your finger in your eye,
Tell your mother it wasn't I,
Cry baby, cry.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 21 May 05 - 01:14 AM

I see Germany, I see France
I see somebody's underpants

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 21 May 05 - 08:57 AM

Sinsull: We had: "I love my love with an A because she is adorable. I hate her with an A because she is asinine. I feed her on acorns & artichokes, and she lives in Ashtabula, and her name is Audrey." Alice & the White Knight (I think it is) play that game in _Through the Looking-Glass_.

"Teacher, teacher, I declare,/ I see ----'s underwear."

There was a tease chant convention in my childhood (1940s, Beverly Hills, CA) based on the color of some article of clothing the teasee was wearing: ", ,/ You " -- say, "Green, green,/ You're mean"; "White, white,/ You're a sight".

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: Bless you, you will be blameless yet, For God forgives, and men forget. :||

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 21 May 05 - 09:34 AM

There's an article about childrens rhymes in todays Times (UK) newspaper, in the magazine section, not sure if its on line. Great piece though.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Abby Sale
Date: 21 May 05 - 10:33 AM

I recall boys singing

Happy Birthday to you.
You belong in the zoo.
Get plastered, you bastard,
Happy Birthday to you.

But I don't specifically remember it sung to any actual birthday child.

I know we used several counting and choosing (as in teams) rhymes but they're blanked at the moment.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 May 05 - 07:28 PM

Happy Birthday to you.
You belong in the zoo.
You were born with the monkeys,
And you look like one too.

The 'Monkeys' Birthday song verses were sung to mature age well known friends as a tag on to the normal verse, before or after the 'why was he born' verse, in the same way that Aussies sometimes call their closest friends 'bastard'....

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 22 May 05 - 10:23 AM

In my previous posting, I rashly used elbows to enclose the variables in the formula, and HTML ate the contents. Here it is with braces instead:

{Color}, {Color}, you('re) {rhyme}.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: The best includes the beginning of the decline. :||

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 22 May 05 - 10:44 AM

I've just remembered one from my childhood - growing up in an Australian country town in the 50's. I remember it being done very rhythmically, but I don't remember there being any actions though. I don't think I've ever heard it since - don't know why I remembered it now:

Rin Tin Tin
Swallowed a pin
He went to the doctor
The doctor wasn't in.
He walked (ran?) through the door
And fell through the floor
And that was the end of
Rin Tin Tin.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 22 May 05 - 12:13 PM

Foolestroupe:
I gather from your comments on 21 May 05 - 07:28 PM that you live in Australia. I'm interested in knowing the years that you sang this rhyme and by 'mature age'...friends do you mean that adults [as well as children sang it as a good natured jest?"

And what do you mean by the "why was he born verse" for Happy Birthday?

****
Bev and Jerry-would you please provide some demographics for the example that you cited?

I remember saying
I see London. I see France.
I see {somebody's} underpants.
[Atlantic City, New Jersey 1950s]   

****
Smiler: could you please provide more information about the article in the newspaper that you referred to in your post {is Times the full name of the newspaper?}.

****

Thanks for the examples. Keep them coming!


Ms. Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 22 May 05 - 06:23 PM

Azizi

"Why was he born so beautiful
Why was he born at all
He's no bloody use to anyone
He's no bloody use at all"

sung to the hymn tune ST. ANNE (O God Our Help In Ages Past)is often sung as part of a trilogy for adult birthdays in Britain and former colonial areas, especially when there has been drink taken. The other two songs are "Happy Birthday To You" and "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow"

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 22 May 05 - 06:37 PM

I see Germany, I see France
I see somebody's underpants


We were both brought up in Cleveland, Ohio (but we got over it). We remember saying and hearing this in elementary school in the late 1940s and early 1950s.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 May 05 - 08:21 PM

The 'why was he born' was not always sung at a child's birthday party - usually only by adults to adults - often at a workplace (usually sober) - or at some other 'adult gathering' where booze was available - then you would most likely get all three of the trio of songs.

If done for a child, it would usually be by some uncle who thought the child was getting 'mature'.

The monkey stuff was usually more kids stuff (I seem to remember late 50's on in Aus) by kids for kids, but was also a more 'grown up' thing - I have heard several 'variations' on the verse done, usually when there is some 'oneupmanship' happening. Australians didn't use to go much along with the US custom of a 'roast' - usually only a couple of minutes of embarrassment is enough - just enough to say 'now you are one of us, cause you've had this done to you too'.

For very young children - under 7-8, most rational adults don't see the need to confuse the poor child and warp their mind with either of these addons ... :-)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Pogo
Date: 22 May 05 - 10:46 PM

I'm going to the circus I'm going to the fair
To see a senorita with flowers in her hair
Shake it senorita shake it if you can
Shake it like a bowl of soup and do the best you can
Rumba to the bottom
Rumba to the top
Then turn around and turn around
Until you make an S-T-O-P STOP!

This was a girl's game mostly we would get in a circle, clap in rhythmn and the 'senorita ' would dance then close her eyes and turn around until we yelled stop!

Hand clapping rhymes

Shame shame shame
I don't wanna go to school no more more more
There's a big fat teacher by the door door door
If she grabs you by the collar
Lord you better holler
I don't want to go to school no more more more

I've also heard a version of this where it was Mexico and a policeman

I also remember a version of the sailor rhyme in that we made a miltarsalute when we said see see see. It also added

" Chop chop chop " *make a chopping motion with the hand on the arm*
" Doo Wop Shoo Wop " *do a little boogie dance*
" Chiiina " *turn the eyes upward with the fingers "

And then at the end it was all sung at once " My sailor went to see see see...chop chop chop...doo wop shoo wop...china "

And of course a song I learned at my work from a co-worker..hehe name sounds a bit funny in this day and age

Bimbo bimbo where you gonna go-e-o
Bimbo bimbo what you gonna do-e-o
Bimbo bimbo does your momma know
that you're going down the road to see a little girl-e-o?
Now Bimbo's got two big blue eyes
that light up like a star
and the way to light them up
is to buy him candy bars
Cracker Jacks and bubble gum to start his day off right
With a hole in his pants and his knee stickin' out
He's just big enough to walk...Ohhhh
*repeat first verse up to girl-e-o*

there's others but can't recall them right off hand...

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 22 May 05 - 11:12 PM

I came to see this thread late. Many of the postings bring back (dim) memories of 55-60 years ago. We recited many of the same counting out games or put downs with some variation in the Los Angeles area. eg

Inka Bink,
A bottle of Ink.
The cork fell out and you stink.

I'm rubber, you're glue,
Everything you say sticks to you.

I know you are. Now what are you.

We're twins: your face and my ass. (Junior High taunt)
I see London, I see France,
I see -----'s underpants.

One potato, two potato three potato, four
five potato, six potato seven potato more.

Eenie Meenie Miney Moe
Catch a N....r by the toe,
If he hollers let him go,
Eenie meenie miney moe.
O U T spells out you go.
(my dad heard us say this and punished us for the racial slur. So somehow we started to substitute the word t...r,I mean tiger).

If we did not get the person out we wanted, we might add to the above counts: My mother told me to choose this (very) one.

Mayhap I'll think of others, but it was a very long time ago!

John Hindsill

I remember singing the following song (shortly after WWII, the Big one)to the tune of Whistle While You Work:
Whistle while you work
Hitler is a jerk.
Musellini is a weenie.
The Japs are just the same.
The dad noted above told us that while it was ok to sing about Hitler and Musellini, it was wrong to use the word Japs, and to lump the whole group with bad individuals. I guess my dad was a pretty smart guy! And ahead of his time.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 22 May 05 - 11:22 PM

Ah, and in my Republican white collar suburb of Detroit, in the 50's we sang:
Whistle while you work
Stevenson's a jerk
Eisenhower has the power
Whistle while you work.

Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 May 05 - 11:27 PM

There is at least one thread thoroughly discussing "Eenie Meenie Miney Moe" that should receive any further discussion on that one. (A link to that thread would also be in order, here.)

Here's one for the collection:

(insert name) is a nut;
He has a rubber butt.
Every time he turns the corner,
Putt putt putt!

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 05 - 06:25 AM

I taught 17 years in city centre schools and I always kept a sharp ear on the playground. Whenever we had to have indoor recess, I'd get the kids going on those timeless playground chants. Each youngster would get a turn. I swear they used to get some from their grandmothers. How else would you explain this one on 1988?
"One two three alarie
I saw sister Mary
Sitting on a bumblarie
Kissing Charlie Chaplin."

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 23 May 05 - 06:47 AM

Foolestroupe;
Help me out here. I'm sorry but I'm a little slow on the uptake. What 'trio of songs' are you referring to in your post on 22 May 05 -08:21 PM?

You wrote "The 'why was he born' was not always sung at a child's birthday party - usually only by adults to adults - often at a workplace (usually sober) - or at some other 'adult gathering' where booze was available - then you would most likely get all three of the trio of songs."
-snip-

I assume that you are talking about that song that Snuffy - PM
Date: 22 May 05 - 06:23 posted [If I haven't said it before, Thanks, Snuffy!]

I'm interested in the idea that there are adult put down songs and adults might also perform variations of songs that originated as chidren's rhymes/songs.

Are these adult putdown songs sung at birthday parties and/or andother events like bachelor parties before weddings??

Does anyone else have any examples of this?

****

Pogo:
Would you please provide some demographical information for your examples? I have collected different versions of those rhymes that you have given from African American girls in Pittsburgh PA 2000s {Going to Kentucky/going to the fair/to see the sister Rita [or "senorita" or 'sister Reena'] with the flower in her hair etc}..I have also collected "I don't want to go to Mexico" from African American girls in Pittsburgh & Philadelphia late 1990s/2000s; and "I don't want to go school" from African American woman from Cleveland, Ohio area {early/mid 1990s}. Btw, This handclapping rhyme comes from "I Don't Want To Go To Macys [department store]

I believe your sailor rhyme is 'A sailor went to sea sea sea". I've also collected versions of that rhyme from the same populations of children I have mentioned.

I am interested in knowing in White girls [and boys?] also know and play these rhymes.

****
John on the Sunset Coast,
I love your examples-especially "We're twins: your face and my ass". I hadn't seen that one before. And I agree that your father was a smart guy!

****
Barbara, I appreciate your post on 22 May 05 - 11:22 PM. That and John's 'Hitler is a jerk' example reminded me that there are political reasons for putdown taunts.

Does else have any more examples of these kinds of taunts?

****
Susan,

I had never seen or heard your example either. It's a great addition. Thanks for posting it!

****
It's remarkable how there is so much similarity in these rhymes over time and place and between different populations.

Thanks to all!

Please keep the examples coming and please remember to include demographical info!


Ms. Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 23 May 05 - 06:53 AM

Guest 23 May 05 - 06:25, we almost crossed posted.

Thanks for your entry. In one of the Opie books that couple wrote that there will always be children's rhymes about Charlie Chaplin. But I've not heard any around my neighborhood {Pittsburgh.Penn}.

Would you please post where you heard this rhyme in 1988.

I'm guessing that you heard it somewhere in the UK, but I could be off by a continent.


:O)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Inukshuk
Date: 23 May 05 - 07:37 AM

Yes, at least a continent! This was in Brantford, Ontario, Canada. A veritable seething hotbed of childhood rhymes and taunts. I truly believe that a lot of those simple lines helped us to deal with the pain of growing. Especially "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Naive as I am, I still believe that.
Keep up the search. Out of the mouths of babes, etc.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 May 05 - 08:35 AM

The 'trio' of birthday songs refers to the post by Snuffy - 22 May 05 - 06:23 PM

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:36 AM

Bimbo was recorded in the 1950s by (I think) Jim Reeves, and was a favourite on children's radio programmes in Britain at the time. I recall it as:

Bimbo bimbo where you gonna go-e-o
Bimbo bimbo what you gonna do-e-o
Bimbo bimbo does your momma know
that you're going down the road to see your little girl-e-o?

Now Bimbo's got two big blue eyes
that light up like a star
and the way to light them up
is to buy him candy bars
Cracker Jacks and bubble gum to start his day off right
And ev'rybody follows him, just to ask him for a bite.

Though Bimbo is a ???????? he's quite the roving kind
And though he's just a little boy he's got a grown up mind.
He'll always ????????????????? and talk his baby talk
With a hole in his pants and his knees stickin' out
He's just big enough to walk

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 May 05 - 09:47 AM

Snuffy,

you've just reminded me of another popular song of the same period "Knees up, pat him on the Popo".
Next line - "let's hear him laugh".

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:16 AM

Baby songs seemed very popular back then - remember "20 tiny fingers" or "The naughty lady of Shady Lane"?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:22 AM

Am I the only one on this side of the ocean who doesn't know any of those songs that Snuffy and Foolestroupe are talking about?

Lyrics, please!

****

I wonder if anyone else remembers these rhymes from their childhood or knows if kids are still saying them today {I remember saying these in Atlantic City, New Jersey in the 1950s, but I'm sure they are much older}:

Liar, Liar,
pants on fire.

**

Where's [someone's name]
In her skin.
When she jumps out. You jump in.

**

What's your name?
Puddin Tane.
Ask me again,
and I'll tell you the same.

**

See my pinkie.
See my thumb.
See my fist.
You better run.

:>)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 24 May 05 - 05:25 PM

Liar, liar
Pants on fire
Nose as long as a telephone wire


We still recite this one - everytime we hear one of Bush's speeches.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 May 05 - 05:35 PM

Xxx and Xxxx sitting in a tree,
K- I- S- S- I- N- G.
First comes love,
Then comes marriage;
Then comes xxx with a baby carriage.

~S~

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 24 May 05 - 07:16 PM

What's your name?
Mary Jane
Where d'you live?
Down the grid
What house?
Mickey Mouse
What number?
Cucumber
What street?
Pigs feet
etc etc (forgotten the rest)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Puffenkinty
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:15 PM

I remember a rhyme to choose
who was "it" for "Hide and Seek"

My mother and your mother
Were hanging out clothes,
My mother gave your mother
A punch in the nose.
What color blood came out?

The caller then named a color, e.g.
Red. Then the caller spelled while
indicating each person:
"R E D" spells red and you are IT!"

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:29 PM

If our Bob gave your Bob a bob on the nose .....

How did the rest of it go?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:09 PM

Snuffy,
When I was growing up in New Jersey in the 1950s I remember hearing and saying: "What's your number? Cucumber".

Here's another rhyme in the pattern of your example posted on 24 May 05 - 07:16 PM.:

Where you live?
In a sieve.

-snip-

This pattern of short rhyming sentences is very much a part African American [and others] oral tradition.

Here's some additional examples of jive talk used by children, youth,and adults:

See ya later, alligator.
After while, crocodile?

****

What's the word, mocking bird?
What I said, cabbage head.

****

If I'm lyin I'm flyin.
[and] grits aint groceries
and Mona Lisa is a man.

-snip-

Incidently, Music Slang Expressions indicates that the word 'alligator' in the rhyme provided above referred to a jazz musician:

Alligator       Originally, a slang term for "Musician".
                Very early in Jazz history, musicians referred
                to themselves as "alligators". Now it simply refers
                to any Swing Devotee (abbrev. 'Gator or Gate)
                Note: Louis Armstrong is often called 'Gate Mouth',
                from the same source.
                Ex:
                'Cat' #1: See ya later, alligator.
                'Cat' #2: After while, crocodile.


Gate or Gator   Jazz musician. Originally used as a
                loving and warm description of Louis Armstrong.
                Folks said his mouth was as large as a "Satchel",
                from which came one of his nick-names -"Satchmo".
                He was also called "Gate Mouth", referring to an
                'Alligator's mouth' (see Alligator definition above)
                above) from which we get the expression "Gate" or
                "Gator" - originally denoting a person as a musician,
                but today it denotes anyone.
                Ex: 'Skin me' "Gate". (Shake hands)

-snip-

Well, if 'alligator' mean a musician, what does 'crocodile' mean? [Maybe that question belongs in the current 'Imponderable' thread].

Frankly, that definition kinda fishy to me...I'm sticking to my belief that most people who said "See ya latah alligatah; afta while crocodile" figured they were talking about the animals with those names- nothing more and nothing less.

And, while I'm on a roll, I guess that saying "Skin me'"Gate" must have been waaay before my time.

In my day {and night} we'd say [and I still say} "Give me some skin" or "slap me five" ...

'Cause this only tangentially has anything what so ever to do with children's rhymes, but oh well, it bes that way sometime..


Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:13 PM

Sorry,

I need to correct the punctuation of this example:

"What's the word?", mocking bird.

{Meaning: "What's happenin?" or "Whassup?"

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:29 PM

Okay, I was tryin to do two things at one time, and proved that I can't do that worth a darn..

Here's another punctuation correction:

After while, crocodile.

and no, I didn't use the preview feature.

That woulda been two much like right.

And speaking of 'right', since I'm writing anyway, I might as well add this other rhyme to the mix {not that it's a put down rhyme, but neither are many of the rhymes & saying that are already in this thread}. So here goes:

Good night. Sleep tight.
Don't let the bedbugs bite.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:46 PM

Boy, I shoulda quit when I was half way ahead.. but no-when you're on a roll, it's too much like right to slow down and PREVUEW what you wrote..

But I bet you noticed that I used the wrong "two too to" word, didn't you?

Okay, here's my penance-I'll share with you a really great children's rhyme that I collected in 1985 from African American girls,ages around 9-12 years old in Braddock, Penn {near Pittsburgh, Penn}.

TWO WAY PASS AWAY
Group                Two way pass away
                Two way pass away
Soloist #1        Well my name is Shana
Group                Two way pass away
Soloist #1        They call me "Shay" "Shay"
Group                Two way pass away
Soloist #1        And if you don't like it
Group                Two way pass away
Soloist #1        You can kiss what I twist
Group                Two way pass away
Soloist #1        And I don't mean my lips
Group                Two way pass away

(Repeat this cheer with the next soloist and continue until every girl has had one turn as the soloist.

-snip-

I believe the refrain of this rhyme comes from "Tu way-packa-way", the signature chant of the New Orleans [African American] Wild Indian groups. However, I didn't know anything about those groups at the time I heard this rhyme so I spelled that 'two' wrong.

I'm sorry to say that I have never met anyone else who remembers this cheer since I heard it that day in 1985. And that's a shame because I would certainly give it high marks for creativity and attitude.

****

Okay, I'm outa here.

If you find any mistakes in this post, please correct them yourself.

:>}


Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:51 PM

From my childhood in the 40's in southern Wisconsin... white males, mostly, but I imagine the girls said them, too.. probably when we were 6-10 years old.

Down in the gas house, hello Pete
Did you ever get a whiff of .....'s feet

Fatty, fatty two by four
Couldn't get through the bathroom door
Had to do it on the floor

Here comes the bride,
Fair, fat and white.

(Guess we had a politically incorrect attitude toward the weight-challenged.)

School's out, school's out
Teacher let the fools out

Man... this could go on and on..

Jerry

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Pogo
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:13 PM

Azizi: The Senorita song and the Shame Shame Shame song, I remember from my childhood, I'd say early/mid 1980's in rural North Carolina around the Cape Fear region and they were very popular chants among both african-american and white children. About that same time, there's also another one popular among the little girls something like a doctor song but I all I can remember of it is " Let's get the rhythmn of the hands *clapclap* (repeated twice) another one where we got the rhythm of the feet and we stomped in cue and " Let's get the rhythmn of the hooot dog " upon which we would put our hands on our hips and swivel them in a circle. It was similar in structure to the sailor rhyme in that at the end we would do the motions all together " Let's get the rhythm of the *clap-clap* *stomp-stomp**some other ones I can't recall now* and then end with " hoooot dog " and the hip swivel.

There was also the ever popular Miss Mary Mack rhyme and the 'dirty' Miss Lucy rhyme

Miss Mary Mack Mack Mack
All dressed in black black black
with silver buttons buttons buttons
all down her back back back

She asked her mother mother mother
for fifteen cents cents cents
to see the elephant elephant elephant
jump over the fence fence fence

He jumped so high high high
Into the sky sky sky
That he didn't come back back back
Till next july lie lie

and the 'dirty' one

Miss Lucy had a tugboat
The tugboat had a bell
The steamboat went to heaven
The tugboat went to...

hellllo operator
please dial me number nine
if you disconnect me
I'll kick your fat

Behind the frigerator
There lay a piece of glass
Miss Lucy sat upon it
and broke her big fat

Assssk me no more questions
Tell me no more lies
The boys are in the bathtub
Eating worms and flies

and a clapping game I learned at girl's camp I would say hmmm mid 90's I think, in the same area. We would sit in a circle with one hand resting palm up under our neighbors' hand and going around the circle slap our neighbors' hand

Down by the banks of the Hanky Panky
Where the bullfrogs jump from bank to banky
Singin' e-i-o-u
Um sacka dilly wacka...ker-plop

whoever had ker-plop! was eliminated from the circle and it would be speeded up.

Also about mid-eighties there's Cinderella dressed in yella went upstairs to kiss a fella, made a mistake and kissed a snake how many doctors did it take? and then counted off (this was a jumprope rhyme)

Snuffy: Heh so that's where it came from. A coworker passed that along to me and said in turn she learned it from her mother. Same region only more recently.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,WYS
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:36 PM

What's up, buttercup?

What's the deal, spinnin' wheel?

Where you been, cute-as-sin?

~S~

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 May 05 - 10:50 PM

Ywo Irishmen, two Irishmen, sitting on a fence
One called the other a dirty son of a
Peter Murphy, Peter Murphy, sitting in the grass
Along came a bumble bee and stung him in the
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you know lies
If you ever get hit by a bucket of s***
Be sure to close your
Ice cold lemonade, five cents a glass
If you don't like it you can stick it up your
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies
If you ever....

That's life
What's life?
A magazine
How much does it cost
Fifteen cents
I've only got a dime
That's life..
What's life..
A magazine

Jerry

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:03 PM

Pogo,

Is this the rhyme you were thinking of?

Down, down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet, sweet baby
I'll never let you go.
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Grandma, Grandma sick in bed.
Called the doctor and the doctor said,
Let's get the rhythm of the head.
Ding dong.
Let's get the rhythm of the hands
Clap, clap.
Let's get the rhythm of the feet
Stomp, stomp.
Let;s get the rhythm of the
Hot dog.
Put it all together and what do you get?
Ding-dong, clap, clap. Stomp, stomp. Hot dog.
Say it all backwards and what do you get?
Hot dog. Stomp, stomp. Clap, clap. Ding dong!

-snip-

There are multiple versions of this rhyme {and there are multiple versions of most children's rhymes, for that matter}. Alot of children around Pittsburgh, Penn. call this rhyme "Down Down Baby", but it is also called "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa" {or some similar sounding word at the end like "Pop" or even Puff".

"Grandma, Grandma sick in bed" is a very old rhyme that is found in African American secular slave songs. That rhyme is also recited alone or with in combination with other verses.

Btw, in the "Down, Down Baby" rhyme, a hip shaking motion is usually performed for the phrase "Hot dog".

****

Wheee! Blog
has a great thread on schoolyard rhymes, including multiple versions of "Miss Susie Had A Steamboat"; "Down On The Banks Of The Hanky-Panky" and "Miss Lucy Had A Baby" {Tiny Tim}*

Check it out!

* This rhyme hasn't been posted yet in this thread, but I KNOW someone remembers it and will post it, right?   



Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 May 05 - 07:35 AM

Recorded tunes are another category of rhymes that children used to tease other kids.

For instance, once upon a time, I was real skinny. And some not so nice kids teased me with the words to this song:

"I got a girl named Bony Moronie
She's as skinny as a stick of macaroni
Ought to see her rock and roll with her blue jeans on
She's not very fat, just skin and bones.

I love her and she loves me.
Oh how happy now we can be,
making love underneath the apple tree."


-snip-

Song:   Bony Moronie (1957)
Artist: Larry Williams

Click HERE

****

I'm sure there are other recorded songs that kids used {use} to
tease others.

Can anyone think of other examples?

Thanks,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 May 05 - 07:49 AM

Well actually as I recall it, the words that the kids * used to tease me were these ones:

"I got a girl named Boney Maronie
She's as skinny as a [piece] of macaroni...
I love her and she loves me...
making love [beneath] the apple tree."

*Interesting, it's the boys' teasing I remember most, and not the girls, if any girls teased me at all. I wonder why that is...

****

I also remember being part of a group of girls in the early grades of elementary school who would run after this popular boy named George and tease him with the words to this Mother Goose rhyme:

Georgie Porgie Puddin Pie
kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play
Geogie Porgie ran away.

-snip-


Mind you, we really liked George. If a girl caught him, she was supposed to kiss him, but I never did {either caught him or kissed him}.

Also we didn't have a clue that this rhyme was actually a putdown on 'Georgie' who for some reason was afraid to stick around when the other boys came out to play.

What's up with that?

Incidently, when I went home a couple of years ago, I found out that the George who we used to chase is now a judge..

More power to him!



Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 09:23 AM

Here's another children's rhyme from Wheee! Blog that I hyperlinked in earlier posts.

I have read a number of other versions of this rhyme before [though I've only seen a version of it performed one time].

But IMO, this version is simply delightful. Check it out!:

"A B C,
It's easy as 1 2 4,
My mamma takes care of me,
My daddy has stinky feet,
Oh! Ah! I wanna a piece of pie,
Pie's to sweet I wanna piece of meat,
Meat's too red I wanna go to bed,
Bed's not made I want some lemonade,
Lemonade's to sour,
I wanna take a shower,
Shower's too cold I wanna piece of gold,
Gold's too shiny I wanna kiss your hiney,
Hiney's too fat and thats the end of that,
Count to 10 and do it over again,
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10..."

{posted by Amanda at May 25, 2005 02:02 PM; reposted with permission of that Blog's members}

-snip-

Usually 'ABC' is a handclap rhyme. The poster for the version presented above didn't give any information about how the rhyme is performed, what city/state she was in when the rhyme was performed, or what year[s] it was performed.

BTW, the '124' in the second line of the rhyme isn't MY typo, and may not be a typo on the rhyme informant's part at all {maybe that is the way she recites it or recited it}. But most versions of this rhyme say "It's as easy as 1-2-3" which of course rhymes with "ABC".
The source of those words are the call & response chorus of the Jackson 5's 1970 R&B song "ABC":

"J5: abc
Michael: easy as...
J5: 123
Michael: or simple as...
J5: do re mi
Michael: abc, 123, baby, you and me girl!
J5: abc
Michael: easy as...
J5: 123
Michael: or simple as...
J5: do re mi
Michael: abc, 123, baby, you and me!"

Click Jackson 5's ABC for the complete lyrics to this song.
-snip-

Thanks to all who have posted examples of rhymes here.

I will be in touch with Mudcat members who posted in this thread to see if I can use your posts in the book that I am preparing for print publication.


Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Pazzion
Date: 26 May 05 - 09:23 AM

I remember
Down Down Baby Down Down the rollercoaster
Sweet Sweet Baby I'll never let you go
Shimmy shimmy cocoa puff shimmy shimmy I
Shimmy shimmy cocoa puff shimmy shimmy I
I like coffee I like tea
I like a colored boy and he likes me
so step back white boy
you don't cause a cool colored boy gonna bet your behind
He'll beat it once he'll beat it twice
He'll beat it beat it beat it
So let's get the rhythm of the head
Ding dong
Sho' got the rhythm of the head head
Ding dong
Let's get the rhythm of the hands
(Clap,Clap)
Sho' got the rhythm of the hands
(Clap,Clap)
Let's get the rhythm of the feet
(Stomp, Stomp)
Sho' got the rhythm of the feet
(Stomp, Stomp)
Let's get the rhythm of the Hot Dog (While doing the snake)
Sho' got the rhythm of the Hot Dog
Ding dong, clap,clap,stomp,stomp,Hot Dog

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 26 May 05 - 09:40 AM

Jerry Rasmussen: At least our version of "Here comes the bride" was free of racism %^):

Here comes the bride,

Fair, fat, and wide.

Here comes the groom,

Skinny as a broom.

-- A better rhyme, too.

For "That's life", cf.

Spring is coming.

He is?

Not "he is", "it is".

It is what?

It is coming.

What is coming?

Spring is coming.

He is?, etc.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: In movies everyone is too rich and everything is too clean. :||

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:12 AM

Pazzion,

I'm very interested in knowing when and where you heard or performed the rhyme that you posted and who [what children] performed it.

Few children's rhymes that have collected mention race or ethnicity. However, for some reason, the "I Like {Love} Coffee; I Like {Love} Tea" rhymes that I've collected [performed post 1970s; in various cities] consistantly mention race.

The words are usually "I like a black boy {or colored boy and he likes me}. The rhymes also consistently include the words "Step back, white boy you don't shine, I'll get a black [or colored boy]
to kick your behind".

Of course, the 'standard' words to this rhyme have nothing to do with race or fighting, but are usually given as
I like a boy [I like the boys]
and he likes me [and they like me]

Why the change in wording? Could this change be an unintended result of increased integration in schools and neighborhoods?

In the last 30 years there has been an increase in interracial dating & marriage. Could these rhymes be children's social commentary on tense interracial interactions and not just interracial romantic attractions????

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:13 AM

I will be in touch with Mudcat members who posted in this thread to see if I can use your posts in the book that I am preparing for print publication.

Please tell us more about your project, Azizi. How is it funded?

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:41 AM

To Pazzion: when I wrote that I was interested in knowing "who [what children] performed' that rhyme you posted, I was seeking information on the race/ethnicity of the children.

****

From my research it appears that there are some rhymes that are performed by children in the USA regardless of race. However, there are other rhymes and types of rhymes that seem to be more common among children of one race or another.

For instance, in my admittedly limited research, I have not yet had any African American child, youth, or adult recite any gross out rhymes like:

"Great big gobs of
Greasy grimy gopher guts
Jubilated monkey's feet
Concentrated birdies' feet
A great big jar of
All-purpose porpoise pus
And me without a spoon!
(I love it so)"

-snip-

I don't remember these types of rhymes from my childhood/youth. I don't see examples of these types of rhymes in books of African Ameircan children's rhymes. I've never observed any African American children reciting these types of rhymes. And when I ask African Americans if they know 'Great big globs or Greasy grimy gopher guts' they invariably say 'no' and 'ugh!'

I also haven't found excessively violent rhymes among African American children like these ones:

"Lizzy Borden took an axe
She gave her father forty whacks
When the job was halfway through
She gave her mother forty-two.

-snip-

or

"On top of old smoky, all covered with sand,
I shot my poor teacher, with a big rubber band!
I shot her with pleasure, I shot her with pride!
I couldnt've missed her...she's eighty feet wide!"
-snip-

And, I should mention, that the 'shooting the teacher' example is quite mild compared with other rhymes that I have seen in print-here on other Mudcat threads on children's rhymes and elsewhere.

If it is true that these types of rhymes are recited wth different frequency by children of different races, what if anything, does it mean??

I'm interested in others' input regarding this. Has anyone else noticed this? Or am I completely out to lunch [about this I mean]

:>)

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:56 AM

WYSIWYG {and anyone else interested in WYSIWYG's question to me from her post on 26 May 05 - 10:13 AM}:

Thank you for your question.

I was honored to receive a small fellowship at the end of 2003 from the Pennsylvania Council of the Arts in association with the Pennsylvania Council on the Humanities. The fellowship was in the area of 'perspective on the arts'. My specific area of interest for this fellowship was [is] children's rhymes.

I am currently working on this project with a University of Pittsburgh professor. However, I haven't identified a publisher for this book. Nor have I received any additional funding for this research/compilation/writing.

As I am a free lance artist who could use additional fiscal support, if you [or anyone else for that matter] are aware of any funding that would support this project, I'd be happy to receive that information!


Azizi

PS. In an earlier Mudcat thread that I started on my rhyme project,
I indicated that if I ever received any money as a result of this project, I will provide a donation to Mudcat. I now repeat that promise.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 11:33 AM

Jerry & Joe F. thanks for posting some interesting putdown and word play rhymes

Jerry, with regards to the "Two Irishmen, two Irishmen, sitting on a fence" that you posted on 24 May 05 - 10:50 PM

is that rhyme and the "that's life" verses part of the same rhyme or are they two separate rhymes?

Joe posted another version for 'that's life' so maybe it was [is] a separate rhyme...

And Jerry-after the floating verse "ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies {that incidently also is used in other profanity avoidance rhymes like "Miss Susie Had A Steamboat"}, you wrote "If you ever...."

Does this mean that you forgot the rest of the words? or is this the way the rhyme went?
****

I'd like to remind folks that no one has responded yet to Snuffy's 24 May 05 - 08:29 request for the rest of the words to another play on words rhyme:

"If our Bob gave your Bob a bob on the nose ....."

And no one has posted the words to "Miss Lucy Had A Baby" {Tiny Tim}yet.

Will this thread retire with these posts left hanging???

Oh woe is me! Woe is me!!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:18 PM

Azizi, when you indicate that you have collected a rhyme, do you mean that you made a field recording or verbatim transcription of what you observed, or do you use that term to refer to gathering contributions such as you have gathered here in this thread?

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:29 PM

Also, regarding this statement: From my research it appears that there are some rhymes that are performed by children in the USA regardless of race. However, there are other rhymes and types of rhymes that seem to be more common among children of one race or another....

What is your sample base-- are you relying on adult recollections, among non-African Americans, for that side of your question?

You also say, I also haven't found excessively violent rhymes among African American children like these ones:

"Lizzy Borden took an axe
She gave her father forty whacks
When the job was halfway through
She gave her mother forty-two.

-snip-

or

"On top of old smoky, all covered with sand,
I shot my poor teacher, with a big rubber band!
I shot her with pleasure, I shot her with pride!
I couldnt've missed her...she's eighty feet wide!"

When you say "these ones", are you equating a "fat joke" that derides a figure of authority with "excessive violence"? Didn't AA slaves make some pretty pungent remarks, possibly even rhymes, about figures of authority? If so, does that indicate a violent mindset to you?

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:30 PM

Susan,

All of the above and more.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:35 PM

Azizi, are you using the term "collected" to refer to adult recollections, and including that process when you use the term "research"? How much of your research is based on that type of collecting?

I'm familiar with people using DT studies and thread discussions about songs as a place to get leads to DO research, but I would be surprised if serious researchers considered the posts of one or two threads a relevant sample. I would think there would be a number of issues, speaking in tgerms of solid statistical measurement.

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:43 PM

Susan,

In no way were my comments meant to imply, suggest, or infer that one race is more violent than another.

I am wondering if others have noticed any differences in the types of rhymes that different children, youth, and adults appear to prefer to recite and/or perform. If there are any differences, they may or may not relate to the way violence or reactions to violence are expressed by individuals from that group.

I believe that it is entirely appropriate to ask the broader humanities based questions regarding the psycho-social implications of examples of a creative folk art form that is usually not considered creative or an art, but IMO, is very much both.

And, Susan, any other information about my project will be available for your consideration when and if the book is published.

I thank you for your interest.


Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:03 PM

Azizi, what is your opinion about the ethical considerations described in the following:

Disguised Field Observations:
Okay, this gets a little sticky. In Disguised field analysis the researcher pretends to join or actually is a member of a group and records data about that group. The group does not know they are being observed for research purposes. Here, the observer may take on a number of roles. First, the observer may decide to become a complete-participant in which they are studying something they are already a member of. For instance, if you are a member of a sorority and study female conflict within sororities you would be considered a complete-participant observer. On the other hand you may decide to only participate casually in the group while collecting observations. In this case, any contact with group members is by acquaintance only. Here you would be considered an observer-participant. Finally, if you develop an identity with the group members but do not engage in important group activities consider yourself a participant-observer. An example would be joining a cult but not participating in any of their important rituals (such as sacraficing animals). You are however, considered a member of the cult and trusted by all of the members. Ethically, participant-observers have the most problems. Certainly there are degrees of deception at work. The sensitivity of the topic and the degree of confidentiality are important issues to consider.

SOURCE

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:29 PM

Azizi, I agree that it is entirely appropriate to ask the broader humanities based questions regarding the psycho-social implications of examples of a creative folk art form that is usually not considered creative or an art, but IMO, is very much both
and I look forward to your replies to the questions I raised in that vein.

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:38 PM

Susan.

I will not engage with you in a discussion of the whys and wherefores of my children's rhymes project and/or my role as a Mudcat member.

To paraphase Popeye the sailorman [but without the dialect],

I am who I am, and that's who I am.


Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 May 05 - 01:44 PM

Azizi,

Wouldn't you agree that research engenders a number of ethical issues?

Is there a reason not to discuss them openly with "field subjects"?

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 02:12 PM

Susan,

"I said it.
I meant it.
And I'm here to represent it"



Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 26 May 05 - 10:11 PM

Growing up in suburban Detroit in the fifties, many of the ones you post are familiar to me. We also said "Liar, liar, pants on fire, nose as long as a telephone wire" and I thought almost every playground had "I see London..." (Always associate that one with the jungle gym, wonder why).
My Grandma said a number of rhymes and riddles as well (I be white, if that be relevant). Do you want those?
Things like

What a funny bird the frog are,
When he hop, he fly almost,
When he stand he sit almost,
When he sit, he sit on what he ain't got hardly.

We also sang "Here comes the bride, short fat and wide..." the rest's the same. And the "Fatty, fatty 2X4.." we also said.

And,
Oh fudge, oh joy
Momma's got a baby boy
Wrap him up in tissue paper
Put him in the 'frigerator.


Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 26 May 05 - 11:26 PM

I appreciate your post, Barbara!

I mentioned race earlier in this thread because I'm interested in asking the question "Is race a factor in the TYPES of rhymes recited and the WAY the rhymes are performed?" I think the answer may be "It depends" or-better yet- the answer may be "Yes. No. Maybe so."

I am interested in folks sharing rhymes that they knew or know, regardless of their race.

****

Barbara, you wrote "We also sang "Here comes the bride, short fat and wide..." the rest's the same. And the "Fatty, fatty 2X4.." we also said."

I'm not sure what words are 'the rest'..

I have seen a variation of the "fudge" rhyme in print, but other children suggested that the baby be thrown down the 'elevator'.

Barbara, would you please provide approximate years for the rhyme from your Grandmother? I've never seen that one before.

Thanks again.


Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 27 May 05 - 09:38 AM

"Here comes the bride, short, fat and wide,
Here comes the groom skinny as a broom."
I think it was Jerry Rassmussen's post about that one. the difference is that I have the word "short" where he (or someone else) has "fair".
And it's "Fatty, fatty, two by four,
          Can't get through the bathroom door.
          So he did it on the floor."
I think Bev and Jerry posted that one.

My Grandma was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1891 and died in Detroit, Michigan (lived there from teens on) in 1980. I can remember that rhyme from about 1955. She also often admonished me "A whistling girl and a crowing hen/Will surely come to no good end." So I'd go whistle somewhere else.

Oh, and we sang "All the girls in France, they don't wear no underpants" There's more tune, but I don't remember any more words.

When they turned our local grade school into a Burn-to-learn last week, (NW Oregon)(they're building a new school and it's a fast way of clearing the site).
I discovered that the kids here still sing (as we did):
Glory, glory, hallelujah,
Teacher hit me with a ruler
I bopped her on the bean
With a rotten tangerine
The school is burning down.
Someone even brought packages of hot dogs and marshmallows.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 27 May 05 - 10:02 AM

Barbara: Oh, yes, I had forgotten about that one. In Beverly Hills in the 1940s it was

There's a place in France

Where the women wear no pants

And the men go round

With their wienies hanging down.

In those days it was the first dirty song that most boys learned. Once I was at a circus where, as part of the show, a line of elephants defecated in unison, while the band played the tune to that song. There is no connection, of course, between elephant droppings and French underwear, but the tune seemed appropriate to accompany the dirty part of the show.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: Dress for success: wear a white penis. :||

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Haven
Date: 27 May 05 - 04:38 PM

Cinderella, Cinderella, was common in my elementary school in Utah in the mid eighties. As was the Glory Glory Hallelujah. I can also add:

Joy to the World, the school burned down,
And all the teacher's died!
Except for the principal
We found him in the toilet bowl
With a rope around his neck . . .

And a rhyme for Chinese jump rope--

Ching, Chang, China Man
Chop Chop SUUU-EY!
Sitting in a china shop
Eating chop SUUU-EY!

Two other's I'm wondering if anyone else knows--

"What you say is what you are, You're a naked movie star" (I'm specifically interested in knowing if anyone knows if this was said before about 1980, or if it's known by anyone outside of Utah).

And one that I THINK I learned in Sacramento CA around 1989 that even my brother's and sister can't remember ever hearing before--I can't remember how it begins, but the part I do remember goes

"Have a peach, have a plum, have a stick of chewing gum,
and if you want another one, this is what you say--
A man, a man, a mandiego, sandiego
Hocus pocus dominocus
Brave Eagles!
Sitting on a trash can, beating on a tin can
Who can? We can! Nobody else can!
Sis, sis, sis boom bah!
Horses, Horses,
Rah! Rah! Rah!"

Also, the suffocation song--sung to the tune of Allouetta

Suffocation, super suffocation
Suffocation, the game we like to play

First you take a rubber hose,
Then you stuff it up your nose
Turn it on, then you're gone!
Oh, oh, oh, oh

Suffocation (repeat)

Next you take a pillocase,
Then you wrap it round your face
Go to bed, Wake up dead
Oh, oh, oh, oh

Suffocation (repeat)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 May 05 - 07:12 PM

Haven,

Thanks for posting such interesting rhymes!

The "Have a peach, have a plum" rhyme that you remember sounds like a cheerleading chant that is made up of bits and pieces of other rhymes/chants.

There are a large number of rhymes that start with "Take a peach, take a plum, take a piece of bubble gum". I have also come across several rhymes that include the words "Sitting on a trash can, beating on a tin can". And of course, "Who can? We can! Nobody else can! Sis, sis, sis boom bah!...Rah! Rah! Rah!" is chanted by cheerleaders all over the place.

Could there be [or have been] a sports team in your area whose name became converted by you or other children to the word 'horses'???

****

Here are two examples of children's rhymes that contain the 'floating verses' that you remember from your childhood "Have A Peach" rhyme:

Shake, shake, shake
Eeny meeny
That's a queeny
Ooh ba Thumbalina
Ah cha ca che Liberace
Oh baby I love you
Yes I do.
Take a peach
Take a plum
Take a piece of bubble gum
No peach
No plum
Just a piece of bubble gum
Oooshe ahshe
Oooshe ahshe
I want a piece of pie
The pie too sweet
I want a piece of meat
The meat too tough
I want to ride the bus
The bus too full
I want to ride the bull
The bull too black
I want my money back
The money too green
I want a diamond ring.
        {Source Barbara Michels, Bettye White, "Apples On A Stick,
       The Folklore of Black Children", 1983, p. 17
       {Houston, Texas}

-snip-

star spangle...
itsy bitsy teeny witsy ew oh to0-ba-leeny outsy whatsy sellahawts say the magic words.. i have a stick of chewing gum and if you want the other half.. this is what you say.. amen. amen. amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.. nothnig to do.. along comes a little baby goochy gochy goo..

i learned this as when i was litte.

{Source: Wheee! Blog; posted by brrittannee at March 25, 2005}

-snip-

Enjoy!

****

Ms. Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 May 05 - 07:28 PM

Haven,

I also meant to point out that the example from the Wheee! Blog thread on school yard rhymes [hyperlinked above in a couple of my posts in this thread] contains other pieces of your "Have A Peach" rhyme. That post is presented as it is found on that site [including typos] and is reposted with the permission from that blog's members.

I'm sure you've notices the similarities between portions of "Star Spangle" and the rhyme that you remember:

Your rhyme:

A man, a man, a mandiego, sandiego
Hocus pocus dominocus...
Sitting on a trash can, beating on a tin can
Who can? We can! Nobody else can!
Sis, sis, sis boom bah!...
Rah! Rah! Rah!"

-snip-

And the "Star Spangled" Rhyme:
"amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.."

-snip-

Unfotunately, the poster of the Wheee! Blog rhyme provided no demographic information {geographical location, info. on when this rhyme was performed, etc/}. From reading that Wheee! Blog thread, it appears that a number of posters are teenagers, young adults, and even younger, but I can't say that with any certainity.

But at least you can be assurred that you didn't dream up this rhyme-even though others can't remember it! You should pat yourself on the back for YOUR memory!

As for the movie star putdown rhyme-sorry I haven't come across that one yet, though there are a number of children's rhymes about being a movie star.


Azizi

PS. The game song pages are only one part of Wheee! Blog. That blog is an an eclectic mix of alot of different topics, some of which might {and might not} appeal to Mudcat members and guests.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Barbara
Date: 27 May 05 - 09:34 PM

When someone offered you an insult, you would reply, "I know that's what YOU are, but what am I?"

What about rhythm games? We played "Rhythm Ready" (and I can't quite remember how it goes, and (clap, snap, clap, snap)
All: Who stole the cookies from the cookie jar?
A:Number -- stole the cookies from the cookie jar.
B:Who me?
All:Yes you.
B:Couldn't be.
All:Then who?
B: Number -- stole the cookies from the cookie jar.

Missing would of course eliminate you from the circle.

My mother tells me that I drove everyone nuts when I was about five by asking them "Guess what?" and when they said "What?" I'd say "That's what!"

When I was in first grade another kid at the drinking fountain asked me, "Did you get the letter I sent you?" and when I said "No", the kid stamped on my foot and said "Oh, I forgot to stamp it."

Does that count as a game? I thought it was mean. I still do.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 May 05 - 09:50 PM

Barbara, I used to do that "Guess what?"-"That's what" exchange.
For some reason it tickled my funny bone. Still does when I'm acting really silly with those I know well.

I also played "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar" when I was little.

And I agree that that letter stamping action was mean.

I guess we're kindred souls.

:o)


Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 28 May 05 - 10:30 AM

I'm curious if this rhyme is familiar to anyone:

I WENT TO THE CHINESE RESTAURANT

I went to a Chinese restaurant
to buy a loaf of bread bread bread
The waiter asked my name
and this is what I said said said:
My name is Eli Eli
Chickali Chickali
Pom Pom Beauty
Extra Cutie
I know karate
Punch you in the body
Oops! I'm sorry
Tell my Mommy
Miss ya, miss yah
Don't wanna kiss yah
Chinese
Japanese
Indian
Freeze!

(players point to each other and freeze)

{African American elementary school age girls Pittsburgh, Penn.
and Philadelphia Penn, collected 1999, 2003}.



Azizi

Subject: Speak Monkey Speak
From: GUEST,sunday monkey
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 01:53 AM

from the sf bay area in the 60's:

order in the court
the monkey wants to speak
speak monkey speak
the first one to speak
is the monkey of the week

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,sunday monkey
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 01:56 AM

who stole the cookie from the cookie jar?
number 1 stole the cookie from the cookie jar.
who sir me sir?
yes sir you sir.
no sir not i sir.
then sir who sir?

...

also: who stole the tart from the queen of hearts?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Sunday Monkey
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 01:59 AM

i saw a dead snake lying in the road.

say: i 1 it.

the other person says: 1 2 it.

say: 1 3 it.

other person: 1 4 it.



... the other person says "1 8 it".

You did! Gross!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 07:16 PM

Thanks, Sunday Monkey!

I remember playing "Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar" long long ago when I was growing up {Atlantic City, New Jersey, 1950s}.
It was the only handclapping game that I remember playing with kids sitting down and clapping there own hands to the rhythm while they chanted the words.

The way we played it was that numbers were called out consecutively starting with #1 and going through how many numbers of children were in the group. Boring.

Far more adults who I talked to have recollections of playing "Who stole a cookie" than children. "Who stole [took] the cookie" doesn't appear to be well known among children {mostly African American}in Pittsburgh who I worked with in after school programming from 1997-to date. It doesn't appear to be a game that children play without adult prompting and adult supervision like other group hand claps such as "Concentration" and "Slap Billyola" {"Strolla Ola Ola"}. *

If this game was known to the children who I worked with before I introduced it, it was usually played with the person who starts randomly selecting a number.

For instance, the first person would call out "#5 stole the cookie from the cookie jar". The response that I remember using and that I've heard in Pittsburgh is less polite than Sunday's Monkey's memory. It is:

"#5" : "Who me? Couldn't be.
Rest of the group: Then who stole the cookie from the cookie jar

and then #5 would call out another random number

BTW, when I introduced it to children I changed the words to "Who took the cookie from the cookie jar" since I figured this is what was meant anyway and I didn't like promoting 'stealing'

****

* More on those rhymes in posts that follow...



Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 08:15 PM

"Slap Billyola" is a group elimination handclap game that I first heard about from my daughter and her friends in Pittsburgh, PA in the 1980s. However, I believe from reading Internet websites on games that this game and similar group handclap games -Strolla Ola Ola" and "Stella Ola Ola" are widely known.

Here are the words:

Slap Billyola
slap, slap, slap. [these words are said]
Sandarico, rico, rico, rico *
With ah 1-2-3-4-5!

-snip-

Performance instructions:

The group forms a wide circle. Before beginning, the group [or one strong personality in the group] decides which number to end the rhyme with {for instance, "#5" in the example above}. Actually though if the group is used to ending this rhyme with the number '5", there is seldom any discussion about which number is going to be the end number.

All children stand in place. In clockwise order, on the beat, one child at a time lightly slaps the hand of the child standing to his right. The person whose hand is slapped on the end number is "Out". Of course, some children try to move their hand out the way, so it won't be hit for that end number, but there is really no way to avoid it. When there are two children remaining, they each take turns slapping the others hand which each word. The person whose hand is slapped on the last number "Loses" and the remaining person is "The Winner".

* I wonder if "sandarico" is folk etymology for the unfamiliar Spanish word "senorita".

****

STROLLA OLA OLA is played ** the same way. Here are the words to that game:
   
Strolla ola ola
Slap, slap, slap.
With ah "s" cheeka cheeka
cheeka cheeka flap jack.
Fah lay, fah lay
Fahlay, fahlay , fahlay
With ah 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 *

-snip-

BTW, these elimination handclap games are "played" by both girls and boys together. I've never seen boys play them separatedly,but I've seen girls do so.

** Children usually don't say that they 'play' these games. They say that they 'do' these games. They usually just refer to the words to the songs by their specific names {for example, they say "Let's do "Stola Ola Ola" and not "Let's do a handclap game"}. If children use any other group referent for the words, it is 'song' or cheer' and not 'rhyme'.

And another thing-when I was growing up I NEVER heard these rhymes or their handclap activity called 'handjive'. No African American child or youth who I have ever interviewed or met with in after-school programming ever used the term "handjive". And no African American adult who I interviewed about their play experience EVER indicated that they used this term.

Of course, I've only interviewed about 200 or so African Americans in Pittsburgh and about that number elsewhere, and I wouldn't hesitate to state without any hesitation that we don't use the term 'handjive" to descrive either the rhymes or their performance.

But it's no biggie what you call it. Doing it is what's fun...

****

Click HERE for a Mudcat thread on Strolla Ola Ola/Stella Ola Ola.



Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Jun 05 - 08:42 PM

Here are two examples of "Concentration" from a website called "Wheee! Blog". These posts are used with permission from that site moderator and are provided as they were found {with misspelling etc}:

"Um i can remember consentraition goes like...

Consentration *clap clap clap*
64 *clap clap clap*
no repeats*clap clap clap*
or heastitations*clap clap clap*
ill go first *clap clap clap*
u'll go second *clap clap clap**continues to how many ppl their are*
the catergory is *clap clap clap*
ANYTHING *thats u want it to be and begin naming things that has to do with that catergory and u cant repeat or heastate and the catergory can be literally anything like anything its self and clap in between*

posted by Karie at September 21, 2003

-snip-

"wats up. i know one it goes:

the game is clap clap clap
concentration clap clap clap
no repeats clap clap clap
or hesitations clap clap clap
catagorization clap clap clap
(what ever you pick) clap clap clap

posted by j-me at April 26, 2005


Click Wheee! Blog for more examples of contemporary children's school yard rhymes.

****

More comments on "Concentration": This is another game that is good for teaching mental alertness {not to mention good sportmanship and other social skills}.

The girls and boys stand in a wide circle. In Pittsburgh I have heard the words as follows:


Concentration
No repeats or hesitations
Name of ____

On "name of" someone selects a category such as "Girl's Names" , "Fruits", "Sports".

While reciting the first part of the rhyme {"Concentration, no repeat or hesitation, name of ___ ", each child alternately claps the hands of the children standing on either side, and his or her own hands. When clapping the hands of the children standing on either side one palm is up and the other palm is down.

The game then is played almost like "Clap Billyeola", but without the hand slapping. One at a time, in clock wise order, each child has to quickly name something in the declared category-and there can be no repeats or hesitations. If the child names something that doesn't belong to that category, or if he or she hesitates, or repeats a word, or object that had been previously given, he or she is "Out".

The object of the game is to be the last person remaining. That person is "The Winner".


Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 05 Jul 05 - 01:34 PM

TTTO Sweet Rosie O'Grady:

She swallowed some poison,

But dying by inches was hard,

So she went out in the alley

And lay down and died by the yard.

I don't know the rest of it.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: Those who believe only what they can prove can generally prove everything they want to believe. :||

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 08:15 PM

Does anyone remember the "Tarzan the Jungle Man" song? When he swims
across the river aligators flee..there's never been another, since the world began like Tarzan the Jungle Man. Also the Little Train
Who Went Achow (sneezed) Once there was a chow chow..All the little
children laughed at him and teased him, sticks & stones they threw
cause he was going Achow 'stead of going cho-cho like the other cho
cho trains do. The children were playing on the track one day when the cho-cho was headed their way..he knew he couldn't stop & he couldn't turn back.. so he went achow and blew them off the track..now they wait for hours, shower him with flowers when he comes
in view..so ends the story of the little train who blew his nose.
I remember these songs from the '50's but I dont have all the words.
Let me know if you remember these lines, so I can teach them to my
grandkids!

Subject: RE: i see london i see france....
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 05 - 12:29 PM

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Mo the caller
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 06:13 AM

In the @80s in cheshire UK my childrens friends used
Liar, liar
Pants on fire
Also when deciding who would have first turn
First the worst
Next the best
Third the...
(dirty soldier?? drunken sailor?)
I cant remember the rest, we never said it as children
EFDSS have brought out a book about playground rhymes recently aimed at teachers.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Robin Madge
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:00 AM

My mother(84) says the following and claims she learnt it as a children's rhyme

Christmas is coming and the goose is getting fat
Please put a penny in the old man's hat.
If you haven't got a penny a ha'penny will do,
If you haven't got a ha'penny a farthing will do
If you haven't got a farthing a shoe(sic) will do
If you have'nt got a shoe then God bless you.

This is from Somerset U.K. and is fairly common around the country except for the "shoe" line. My theory is that it is a corruption of "sou" and dates back to when french and other foreign currency was accepted in England.

Robin Madge

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:18 AM

It goes, Liar liar, pants on fire
hanging on the telephone wire

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,BNP
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:02 PM

Miss Lucy has a tugboat the tugboat had a bell the tugboat went to heaven Miss Lucy went to


Hello Operator dial me number nine if you disconnect me I'll kick your fat

Behind the bed there lay a piece of glass Miss Lucy thought it would be funny if she broke her brothers

Asssk me no more questions tell me no more lies the boys are in the bathtub pooping out dead flies.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Hand ruler!
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:10 PM

Key
* is Clap



Ms. Sue * * * scooby do *** Ms. Sue from Alabama,Alaska,Maraska eatin in a rocker eatin Betty Crocker watchin the clock go tick - tock tick - tock a weena beena tick - tock tick -tock ABCDEFG wipe those dog germs off of me... turn out the lights and freeze................. unfreeze

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,guest guest
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:37 PM

Ms. Suzy was a baby all she did was cry cry cry, when Ms. Suzy was a kid all she did was lie lie lie, when Ms. Suzy was a teenager all she said was leave me a lone lone lone, then Ms. suzy was a adult buying her first home home home, then Ms. Suzy was a mother her kids were just the same same same, she said the were not like her but that they were a big pain pain pain, then Ms. Suzy was a grandma and left when she heard the church bell bell bell, but she did not leave for church so she will go to h*** h*** h***, when Ms. Suzy was on her death bed she told her kids keep well well well, and if you get to poor my body you can sell selll sell!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: dulcimer42
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 10:52 PM

My mother said kids used to say this, where she grew up in an orphanage in Indiana.... that would have been in the early 1900's

(Suzie)'s mad, and I'm glad and I know what will please her: a bottle of ink to make her stink, a bottle of wine to make her shine, and a little N----- boy to please her.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Abbie from Arizona
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:56 AM

I don't have any new rhymes to add, but I'd like to give you the versions of a couple that I grew up with, in Southern California in the late 80's and early 90's:

Down by the banks of the Hanky Panky
Where the bullfrogs jump (sometimes we said "croak" instead) from bank to banky
With an eep, opp, soda-pop
With an eep, opp...ker-plop!

I was also surprised by the word differences in this one from what you put down (I'm not sure if you heard it as a rhyme or as a song. Ours had a definite melody, though- pretty whiney and screechy):

Great green globs of greasy grimey gopher guts
Mutilated monkey meat
Itty-bitty birdy feet
All wrapped up in a package full of porpoise pus
Swimming in a pool of blood

My mom also taught me one from her childhood (1960's southern California):

Acka-backa soda-cracka
Acka-backa-boo
Acka-backa soda-cracka
I see you! (it might've been "out goes you," now that I think of it)

demographics for mine are pretty much all white kids. The frog one was just girls, whereas everybody did the gopher guts one. Not sure about the soda cracker one, since I wasn't there.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Spain
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:51 AM

Teaching English is Spain and my students love these types of rhymes the best. Originally from Boston surprised not to see:

U - G - L - Y
You ain't got no alibi
you're ugly
that's right
you're ugly

There is a second phrase about "your momma", but I don't remember it.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:22 AM

Hello, GuestSpain.

Here's a second verse that was performed by 'urban' high school cheerleaders on the 1986 movie "Wildcat":

M-O-M-M-A
That is how you got that way
Your Momma
Hey Hey*
Your Momma.

* Instead of "Hey Hey", I've also seen examples of "Yeah Yeah" or "What What"

-snip-

Btw, I think that "Wildcats" got "U-G-L-Y" from the kids. But I'd bet that the rhyne gained in popularity because of its inclusion in that movie. The earliest date I've been given for this rhyme is from the 1980s {Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania}, but it might have been chanted earlier than that in Pittsburgh or elsewhere}.

Here's another example that was sent to my website http://www.cocojams.com/taunting_rhymes.htm :

U-G-L-Y {Version #2}
U-G-L-Y
You aint got no alibi U ugly Yeah Yeah U ugly
M-A-M-A how did U get that way UR mama Yeah Yeah UR mama
D-A-D-D-Y U dont even kno the guy UR daddy Yeah Yeah UR daddy
-Cherry, 2/15/2006

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 30 May 06 - 07:47 AM

"Brickwall Waterfall" is another VERY popular rhyme that was also included in the 2003 American movie "Dickie Roberts; Former Child Star".

Though I have no proof, and though I'm not a betting person, if I were a betting person, I'd put alot of money on my opinion that "Brickwall Waterfall" came from some kids in the street and was then taken up by that movie's writers. But without any doubt, I'd also say that more kids are chanting the in-your-face-with-loads-of attitude rhyme "Brickwall Waterfall" because it was featured in that Dickie Roberts movie. I mentioned a bit of that rhyme in an earlier post on this thread, but here's a couple of examples of that rhyme that were sent to my website {linked above}:

Brick wall Water Fall {Example #3}
When ur talking to me all im thinking is , Brickwall water fall, (name) thinks they no it all, You don't so i say boom wid that attutude pinch punch captin crucnch i have something you can't touch bang,bang cho cho tran you wind me up i do my thing no reason piece of 7up mess wid me i'll mess u up.
this is for girls of any years that want to show off
-kenisha, 3/8/2006 {England}; Cocojams

-snip-

also see this version of that rhyme:

A-B-C Hit It! {and/ or Brickwall Waterfall}{Example #6}
it's called A-B-C Hit It! {and/ or Brickwall Waterfall}. It goes:
A-B-C Hit It! That's the way Uh-Uhh I like it Uh-Uhh.
That's the way Uh-Uhh I like it Uh-Uhh. Brickwall Waterfall
Girl you think you know it all. You don't. I do. So Poof with the Attitude. Peace Punch Captain Crunch. I got something you can't touch.
Bang Bang Cho Cho Train. Wind me up I'll do my thing.
Yummy Yummy 7Up Mess with me I'll beat you up. Wait, Come back.
I think you need a Tic Tac. Not 1 Not 1 Not 2 But the whole six-pack. I'm not trying to be mean but you need some Listerine. Not a sip not a swallow. But the whole dang bottle.

{PS. To the owner of this website usually the Brickwall rhymes are games you play with your hands. Thanks!!!}
-lauren snyder S.A T.X ro ; 5/7/2006- Cocojams

****

Enjoy!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Spain
Date: 30 May 06 - 10:30 AM

I heard the "ugly" chant in Boston in various summer camps in the late 70s. I've always assumed its even older than that. There was also the street Rockin Robin that I heard/played in the same camps.

Tweedily diddly dee(3x)
tweet tweet, your breath stinks.

Rockin' in the treetop all day long
huffin' and a puffin' just singin' that song
all the little birdies on jail bird street
love to hear the birdies go tweet tweet tweet

Rockin' robin tweet tweet tweet
Rockin' robin tweet tweet tweet
All the little birdies on jail bird street tonight
tweet tweet tweet

Momma's in the kitchen, cookin' rice
Daddy's on the corner, shootin' dice
Brother's in jail, raisin' hell
Sister's on the corner selling fruit cock tail

Rockin' robin tweet tweet tweet
Rockin' robin tweet tweet tweet
All the little birdies on jail bird street tonight
tweet tweet tweet

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 30 May 06 - 01:58 PM

Hello, Guest Spain!!

Thanks for posting a date for that U-G-L-Y rhyme. I thought that it was recited by children before that Wildcat movie, and your information appears to confirm that.

Here's another verse to that "Tweedleelee" or "Rockin Robin" hand clap rhyme:

I went downtown to get a stick of butter
I saw James Brown poopin * in the gutter
He had a piece of glass
stuck up his butt **
I never saw a Black man run so fast

Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweeleelee
Rockin Robin
Tweet Tweeleelee

* also recited as "laying" in the gutter

** also recited as "ass";I'm told that some children selff-censor this word in front of adults and substitute the word "butt"; however I don't believe that is always the case; some children believe the real word is "butt" even though it doesn't rhyme

****

"Rockin Robin"/"Tweeleelee" {or a similar name}appears to be very widely known by children, youth, and adult [women probably more than men] from the mid or late 1970s on [the date corresponds to The Jackson's recording of Rockin Robin]. Besides for my [adopted] home area of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the geographical attributions of the examples I've collected are Erie, PA; Cleveland, Ohio, Pittsburgh, New York City, Connecticut; West Virgina, Washington D.C., and Georgia. Except for a Latina woman in New York City, and a Filipino/White woman in West Virgina, all of the informants who gave me their racial/ethnicity information [or who I observed performing this rhyme] have been African American.

I'm interested in knowing if this rhyme is well known among
non-African American populations.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 31 May 06 - 12:36 AM

It occurred to me that I don't think I've seen mention in any of these children's rhymes discussions (the ones I've read!) of this "elimination" rhyme that was popular in my neighbourhood in Windsor, Ontario, in the 1960's:

Engine, engine, number nine,
Going down Chicago line;
If the train goes off the track,
Do you want your money back?

"Yes" (or "No") -

Y-E-S spells yes
and you are not it!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,C
Date: 31 May 06 - 01:55 PM

My band-mate and I put this one to music, and we play it to the delight of most of the other girls our age, which is now mid-late 20s. It was really popular in the 80's, in the South anyway:

"Miss Susie had a steamboat
the steamboat had a bell
Miss Susie went to heaven
The steamboat went to...

Hello operator
please give me number nine
and if you disconnect me
I'll chop off your...

Behind the refrigerator
there was a piece of glass
Miss Susie sat upon it
and cut her little...

Ask me no more questions
I'll tell you no more lies
the boys are in the bathroom
zipping up their...

Flies are in the meadow
Bees are in the park
The boys and girls are kissing in the...

D-A-R-K-D-A-R-K-D-A-R-K DARK DARK DARK!"


My daughter taught me this one recently:

"Apples on a stick just make me sick

Make my heart go two-forty-six

Not because I'm dirty

Not because I'm clean

Not because I kissed a boy behind a magazine!"

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM

Az, the one that starts "Great big gobs of..." --the way I remember the next line is "Mutilated monkey meat..."
I heard this one said a few times when a kid(late '40s, early '50s), but it made me nauseous and never could bring myself to repeat it, so don't remember the whole thing.

This is one my kids started bringing home from public school in the mid '70s. It is a song--verses have an A section, and B section. It goes A, B, A, B, B. The school my kids attended was multi-racial--some white, some black, some Hispanic, a few Asian. Don't know which group originated it, but my guess as to time is 20thcent. as it refers to national brand names, billboards, sidewalks.

A)"As I was walking down the street a billboard caught my eye.
   The advertisements written there would make you laugh and
         cry.
   The signs were torn & tattered from a storm the night before--
   And as I gazed upon it, this is what I saw:"
B)"Smoke Coca-cola cigarettes. Chew Wrigley's spearmint beer.
   Ken-L Ration dog food makes your wife's complexion clear.
   Simoniz your baby with Hershey's candy bars.
   Crystal Drano makes the difference in all the movie stars!"
A)"When I recovered from my shock I went upon my way.
   I'd gone no farther than a block when there, to my dismay,
   Another billboard caught my eye & like the one before--
   The wind & rain had done its work and this is what I saw:"
B)"Take your next vacation in your brand new Frigidaire.
   Learn to play piano in your winter underwear.
   Chew chocolate-covered mothballs--they always satisfy.
   Brush your teeth with Lifebuoy Soap and watch the suds
       flow by."
B)"Doctors prove that babies shouldn't smoke 'til after 3.
   People over 35 take baths in Lipton Tea.
   You can make this country a better place today;
   Just buy a record of this song and THROW IT FAR AWAY!!!"
We all had this song down pat before my oldest turned 11, which makes it about 1977. The kids, of course, had it almost immediately. My husband and I had to keep asking for their help, but finally stopped needing that.      Tw

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:53 PM

Tannywheeler & others:

Since 1997 to date I've been doing formal presentations on children's rhymes and informal interactions with [mostly African American] children in [mostly] the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area. As part of my presentation, I ask children what rhymes they know. Actually, I ask them what "songs" they know, because that seems to be the term that they use for handclapping and other 'street' rhymes.

In all of that time, no individual children nor any groups of children ever volunteered that they knew the "great big globs of mutiliated monkey meat etc." rhyme. Nor in that time period or before have I ever heard any child "sing" this rhyme [or for that matter, other what I call "gross out" rhymes". I'm wondering if this rhyme and other rhymes of that genre aren't as well known among African American children as they appear to be among European-American children.

And if that is so, could it be because these rhymes aren't usually performed with hand-clapping routines, or foot stomping movements, It seems to me that percussive handclap routines or foot stomping routines are a common feature of African American contemporary 'street' rhymes.

Any thoughts about this?

****

Tannywheeler:
Thanks for posting that "I was walking down the street" rhyme. This rhyme is new to me.

Do I understand you to say that the kids take turns saying either the A or B sections in a call & response like format? And is any handclapping or other movements done with this rhyme?

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 08:37 PM

great big gobbs of
greasy grimey gopher guts
mutilated monkey meat
little dirty birdy feet
fried eyeballs all
floating in a pool of blood
I forgot my spoon
but I brought a straw

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 11:49 PM

I am nice and you are pooh

What I just stepped in smells like you.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 01:27 AM

Azizi - An observation about the gross stuff. I don't remember any of those types of songs from the schoolyard - however, they were very popular at summer camp. Don't know why the difference, but there was always a lot of singing at camp and not much chanting, but lots of chanting in the schoolyard (especially in the girls' games) and not much singing. Don't know how this jibes with other people's experience ...

I'm talking white kids here, but I have a hunch you might find the same things with black kids where you can find a bunch who go to summer camp.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 07:54 AM

Thanks for that observation, thurg.

If that premise holds up, then maybe "class" {ie income} is a significant factor, since usually poorer kids have less opportunity to go to summer camps than kids whose families have more money.

It seems to me that most collectors gather the lyrics of children's rhymes and fail to document alot of other demographics that I think may be important. Often the only demographics that collectors sometimes note for their non-adult informants are nationality, age, and gender. I'm of the opinion that other variables should be documented as these demographics may influence which types of rhymes the children recite, the meaning of certain slang terms found in the rhymes, the inclusion of famous persons mentioned in the rhyme, and how [and why] the rhymes are performed the way they are or the way they were performed.

As an example of this premise, it's my opinion that 'being [mentally & emotionally] tough [also known as 'bening hard'] is an important coping mechanism and survival strategy among poor urban residents {without regard to race]. In African American urban poor communities, from a very early age some children are socialized to be tough and stoic. When something bad happens to them, children and adults are supposed to "suck it up" {meaning show no outward reaction, and keep whatever sadness or disappointment and especially any fear that they are feeling inside them}. A stern face, or mean face or smirk is greatly preferred to a sad or sacred face or een a hopeful demeanor. My interpretation of this is that if a person shows grief, or fear, or even hopefulness that would signal vulnerability that could be exploited by another person.

As a foster care caseworker, I have seen a birth mother start this toughing up regiment with her less than one year old son. During once a week two hour visits with her son, this 20 year old African American birth mother often talked to him about being tough. She "played" with her son by pretending to punch him {complete with 'pow' 'pow' 'pow'} sound effects}. And she chided him for being a 'punk' or a wimp if he started crying. This birth mother critized her son's foster mother for not raising her son to be tough enough. "Class" and/or differences in these women's backgrounds & lifestyles have much more influence than race in how the birth mother and the foster mother would parent this child. Both of these two women are Black. They happen to live less than 5 minutes apart by car in the same section {but not the same neighborhood} of the same city. The birth mother is a non-church going woman who was incarcerated as a young teen. She was raised in public housing developments, and lived in a public housing apartment until she was evicted for failure to pay her rent. The birth mother was on welfare until her child was removed from her. She now has no legal income. In contrast, the foster mother comes from a church going, tightly knit, working class family. She lives in a rental house, works ouside the home, and receives income for being a foster child. Because this particular child has engaged in more aggressive behavior toward his foster mother and other children in the home after his visits with his birth mother, the foster mother guessed that the child's birth mother is 'teaching him how to fight'.

What does this have to do with children's rhymes? Well, I think that this "be hard' value is found througout a large number of African American children's rhymes. As an example, at the end of the
"I Don't Want to go to Mexico" handclap rhyme, the two children {usually girls] doing the handclap routine try to be the first one to slap the other one on the forehead. The child who is slapped is supposed to laugh it off.

I don't think that was a part of the original "I Don't Want To Go To Macys". rhyme.

Maybe kids who have to been toughened up and who are concerned about day to day survivals don't have time to cross themselves or others' out with 'great big globs' types of rhymes. Or maybe it would be counter to their 'hard as nails' culture to show any response at all to these yucky rhymes.

And maybe it's just that the rhymes aren't percussive enough. I don't know. Maybe I'm far off base with these speculations.

And maybe I'm not.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Jun 06 - 08:19 AM

Among other errors in my last post-the foster mother receives income for being a foster parent.

And since I'm posting this correction, here's an example of
"I Don't Want To Go To Mexico"

Shame, Shame, Shame.
I don't want to go to Mexico
no more, more, more.
There's a big fat policeman
at door, door, door.
He'll grab you by the collar
and make you pay a dollar.
I don't want to go to Mexico
no more, more, more.
Shame. *

* on the word "shame" the two children doing the handclap try to be the first one to slap or poke the other child on her {or his} forehead.

[collected by Azizi Powell, 1998-2006; from observations of and interactions with African American girls and boys 6-12 years old, various Pittsburgh, PA neighborhoods & 1999 African American girls 9 and 11 years old, Philadelphia, PA]

"Shimmy Shimmy China" is another example of this hitting or slapping action occurring in a handclap routine.

Shimmy, Shimmy China,
I know karate.
Shimmy Shimmy China,
Oops! I'm so sorry. *
Shimmy Shimmy China
Sittin on a fence
trying to make a dollar
outa 85 cents
She missed
She missed
She missed like this, like this, like this.

* on the word "oops" the children performing this midly competitive handclap routine try to be the first one to poke or slap another child or her or his forehead; the children continue the rhyme as if no violent action had occurred

[collected in 1998 by Azizi Powell; Pittsburgh, PA; from Shep, 8 year old African American boy; and his sisters- 9 year old Shayla and 12 year old Shan]

Btw, on the last line the boy said "he missed". And as explantion for that last line-on the words "like this, like this, like this" the children execute a foot crossing jump. If on the last phrase, the left foot is crossed in front of the right foot instead of the other way, that person is out.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 06:17 AM

Az, my memory is that my kids went around the house or yard, or sat in the back seat of the car, singing that song at the top of their lungs. No special movements that I remember. There were periodic giggles, tho'......Tw

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 07:25 AM

Thurg,

Humor me here, please. I'm not sure I understand you.

In your last post, are you referring to the "As I was walking down the street a billboard caught my eye" rhyme that you posted above?

And if so, how did your kids sing it? I got that there were no accompanying back & forth handclaps or no foot stomps. But did [does]one child sing the part "A" section and another child sing the part "B" section?

Color me curious,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 11:18 AM

Azizi - Um ... when you say "Thurg", do you mean "Tannywheeler"?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

Opps! Sorry, thurg & sorry tannywheeler.

Well, at least both your names start with a "t".

Excuses, excuses....

Umm, tannywheeler, I hope you'll respond to my question-not that it's earth shaking or anything.

you can color me both mixed up & curious,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Megan
Date: 03 Jun 06 - 09:55 PM

One with tarzan is like:

Tarzan tarzan sitting on a rubberband slipt and fel and booke his bones what color was his blood. Then someone picks a color.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,katsa
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 04:06 PM

My little sister is ten and they have a modified version of Take a peach rhyme:

they call me
eeny meeny
teeny weeny
ooh ah thumbalini
ah chi pachi liverini
i hate you

no peach
no plum
no stick of bubble gum
no peach
no plum
no stick of bubble gum

last night
i saw you with my boyfriend
how do i know
looked through the window
nosy
didnt take a shower
stinky
didn't do the dishes
lazy
jumped through the window
must be crazy

that's why they call me
eeny meeny
teeny weeny
ooh ah thumbalini
ah chi pachi liverini
i hate you

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 05:10 PM

Thanks, GUEST,katsa for posting that version of Take A Peach Take A Plum.

Please give my compliments to your sister for being creative in changing the words to that rhyme. I especially liked this line:
"didnt take a shower
stinky"

;o}

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Sheree
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:10 PM

I grew up in Indianapolis, In. and I'm looking for the origin of a rhyme or saying from my youth in the 70s:

If your Black, get back
If your Brown, stick around
If your White, you all right
If your Yellow, you mellow
If your red, you're dead

My Professor recited this rhyme in class, causing me to remember it. She is from Gary, In. It has since become a topic within a paper I'm writing. Have you received any other threads from other regions about this one? I'm trying to find out if it was commonly used in African American communities throughout the US. Thank you and I've truly enjoyed the rhyming flashback! Wishing you much success.....Sheree

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Forsh
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:38 PM

Albums are red, albums are blue, but if you go to Afri, albums are black.

Made you look made you stare, made you loose your underwear.

(INSERT CHILDS NAME)..sells fish, three ha'pence a dish, don't buy it! don't buy it! it stinks when you fry it!

Of course, the wonderful 'Rumbylowe' also recorded a montage of 'Skipping Rhymes' "Three queens of polio, polio, polio, three queens of polio, whoops yer auntie mary-oh, this is the way the teacher standsm she folds her arms then claps her hands, this is the way the teacher stands, whoops yer auntie mary-oh" etc.

I hope these are of use!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 03:10 PM

Forsh that last one sounds like an urban adaptation of OATS AND BEANS AND BARLEY

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:17 PM

Sheree, I am familiar with a version of the first rhyme you posted.

That rhyme provides commentary on race in America-both from the viewpoint of White America, and also with regards to inracial color preferences among African Americans.

Here's the version of that rhyme that I know:

If you're white you're alright
if you're brown stick around
if you're black get back.

Demographical information: recited & heard in Atlantic City, New Jersey {mid 1960s and possibly before that}, and in Pittsburgh, PA {late 1960s to date}.

Note that we didn't have the part about if you're yellow or if your red...

I remember reciting this rhyme as a young child, probably while jumping rope:
Yellow yellow kiss a fellow
Red red pee the bed
White white say goodnight.

-snip-

If the "Yellow yellow" rhyme had anything to do with race, I don't think the kids reciting it knew it. Personally, I'm not convinced that rhyme. In contrast, the "If you're White" rhyme was recited by Black teens and Black adults who had no doubts that that rhyme was about skin color preferances.

It's highly possible that the "If you're White" rhyme was probably part of folk culture for quite some time. But in 1951 Big Bill Broonzy recorded two versions of songs that included this rhyme.

Here's the lyrics to one of Big Bill Broonzy's songs:

BLACK, BROWN, AND WHITE(Version 1)
by Big Bill Broonzy
recording of September 20 1951, Paris

This little song that I'm singin' about,
people you know it's true
If you're black and gotta work for a living,
this is what they will say to you,
they says, "If you was white, should be all right,
if you was brown, stick around,
but as you's black, hmm brother, get back, get back, get back"

I was in a place one night
They was all having fun
They was all buyin' beer and wine,
but they would not sell me none
They said, "If you was white, should be all right,
if you was brown, stick around,
but if you black, hmm brother, get back, get back, get back"

Me and a man was workin' side by side
This is what it meant
They was paying him a dollar an hour,
and they was paying me fifty cent
They said, "If you was white, 't should be all right,
if you was brown, could stick around,
but as you black, hmm boy, get back, get back, get back"

I went to an employment office,
got a number 'n' I got in line
They called everybody's number,
but they never did call mine
They said, "If you was white, should be all right,
if you was brown, could stick around,
but as you black, hmm brother, get back, get back, get back"

I hope when sweet victory,
with my plough and hoe
Now I want you to tell me brother,
what you gonna do about the old Jim Crow?
Now if you was white, should be all right,
if you was brown, could stick around,
but if you black, whoa brother, get back, get back, get back

-snip-

see http://blueslyrics.tripod.com/artistswithsongs/big_bill_broonzy_1.htm#black_brown_and_white_version%201 for lyrics to more Bill Bill Broonzy songs including version #2 of this song.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 05:36 PM

Sorry. I meant to write
Personally, I'm not convinced that rhyme "Yellow yellow" had anything to do with skin color.

****

Forsh, I'm curious about you reference to "Rumbylowe". I tried to find more about this group by Google, but didn't get very much. However, I did find a small blurp [but no examples]about about skipping rhymes that are found in Rumbylowe's album, 'Jolly Rumbylowe'.

Is this an Australian group? Who sings these songs-adults or kids?

I assume that "skipping rhymes" as mentioned in this blurp may be the same or similar to what Americans {UnitedStaters} call "jumprope rhymes". And, since jump rope rhymes is a generic term in the United States that includes "handclap rhymes" and rhymes that accompany other movements done by children while they chant rhyming verses, maybe that's the same as the Australian [?] skipping rhymes that are featured in that Rumbylowe album.

It would be great to learn more about this.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 06:26 PM

Spot on there Ms Azizi. In parts of the map that used to be coloured red (pink actually), we have "skipping ropes" rather than "jumpropes". Maybe because skipping implies only one foot at a time touches the ground, whereas jumping implies both feet?

But anyway, skipping rhymes would include other rhymes and chants used by children for playing tick, or selecting a team or a sweetheart, and all the other things kids do.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 08:10 PM

Snuffy, what's playing tick?

And could you or anyone else post examples of children's rhymes for choosing a sweetheart?

I can think of rhymes where a girl mentions the name of the boy she likes, but I'm drawing a blank on choosing sweetheart rhymes.


Thanks.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 10:04 PM

What's your name?
Puddin' tane.
Ask me again, and I'll tell you the same.

*

Old Mr Kelly
Had a pimple on his belly.
His wife cut it off,
And it tasted like jelly.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: NH Dave
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 10:32 PM

A friend of mine, Scott E. Hastings, Jr., collected a bunch of school yard and counting out rhymes from northeastern Vermont, and published them in a book named, Miss Mary Mack all Dressed in Black, which is available on Amazon.com, for a few dollars or the equivalent. Scott's long gone now, but the book still live on.

Dave

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:26 AM

I think you probably call it "tag" where we call it tick.

By Sweetheart rhymes, I mean where you have to choose someone so the game can carry on, not the "ippy-dippy O-U-T spells OUT" elimination chants. Things like The Farmer's in the Dell where the farmer picks a wife, then the wife picks a child, the child picks a dog, the dog picks a bone, then we all pat the bone. Or the bit in We are three Dukes/Jews where it goes:

Come back, come back your coat is green
And choose the fairest one you've seen.

The fairest one that I can see
Is [insert name of child], come out to me

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:42 PM

Thanks, Snuffy.

FWIW, the only rhymes that you referred to in your last post that I'm familiar with is "The Farmer In The Dell". But that's just from reading it. Besides at the teacher's lead in kindergarten {public school ages 4 and 5 years}, I don't think kids play that game any more.

As a matter of fact, I've rarely seen children initiate children seldom initiate circle singing or chanting games except for elimination handclap rhymes like Slap Billy-ola {Stella Ola Ola} .

I've seen mostly girls but also sometimes boys & girls {ages about 6 years old to 13 years old} playing this game. Perhaps it's the competition that makes it attractive to them.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 08:49 PM

Yes, I know. "Preview" should be my friend.

Here's an old West African proverb:
"To stumble is not to fall, but to go forward faster".

What does that proverb have to do with my mistakes in the last post? Besides my rushing to submit that post, probably not much. But Isaw an opportunity to share that proverb, and so I took it.

Borrowing from Snuffy's post, "Ippy-dippy I'm O-U-T" of here.

Right.

Left.

Right.

Now.

:O)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 08:50 AM

9 variants of THREE DUKES in the Digital Tradition. And this one my mother taught me:

3431 THREE DUKES (2)
X: 67
T:Three Dukes (2)
M:6/4
L:1/8
Q:150
S:my mother
P:A5B2
A:Tyneside
N:filename[ THREDUK2
K:G
P:A
D2|
G2A2 B4- B2G2 |c2B2 A4- A2D2|
F2G2 A4- A2(GA)|B2A2 G4- G2 ||
P:B
M:6/8
D|
G2G G2B|d2B G2G|A2A A2G|F2E D2D|
G2G G2B|d2B G2G|A2A DEF|G3 G2 ||

We are three Jews, we come from Spain,
To court upon your daughter Jane.

Our daughter Jane is far too young
To understand your noisy tongue.

SPOKEN:
Go away, Corkscrew.

Our name, our name is not Corkscrew,
We'll stamp our foot, and away we'll go.

Come back, come back, your coat is green,
And choose the fairest one you see.

The fairest one that I can see
Is [name here]. Come out to me.

SPOKEN:
I will not come.

The naughty girl, she won't come out,
She won't come out, she won't come out;
The naughty girl, she won't come out,
To join us in the dancing.

SPOKEN:
I will come.

Now we've got the lady out,
The lady out, the lady out,
Now we've got the lady out,
To join us in the dancing.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:07 PM

I got a kick out of the following rhyme that was sent to my website today:

your mama your mama my daddy your bald headed granny she 99 she think she fine she break it down like frankinstin. go frankie go frankie go, go, go frankie, go frankie go frankie go, go, go frankie. my mama my mama short and fine she got a butt like mine and when she walk the street all cars go beep,beep beep and when she go down low she does a rollie o and when she com up high she does the butterfly. stop. drop. bring it to the top pop pop shake skahe vibrate vibrate
-erika

-snip-
I love the nickname "frankie" for "frankinstin". "The butterfly" is the name of a R&B dance circa mid 1990s.

The phrase "stop drop" is probably lifted from the chorus of the 2002 hit by DMX called "Ruff Riders Athem [note: imo, that rap song includes some decidedly politically un-correct language such as the n-word-although the hip-hop spelling for that word is used].

I remember when most children from kindergarten on up in the elementary school my daughter taught at {and where I did after-school programming} sang this catchy chorus to that song:

"Stop drop shut 'em down open up shop
Oh no that's how Ruff Ryders roll
Stop drop shut 'em down open up shop
Oh no that's how Ruff Ryders roll"

-snip-

What does it mean? You askin me?

I bet most of the kids don't know either, but "That's how I roll" means that's how I move about or that's what I do; that's how I am...

Please help me out here if you can add to or correct this definition.

Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber. You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:09 PM

Here's some somewhat random thoughts about the example from in my last post:

Note how the rhyme is written in essay form with no capitalization at the beginning of a sentence {or new line of the rhyme}and usually no punctuation at the end of a sentence {or line}. This style of writing is becoming the norm for children & youth {if not others} on informal blogs and message boards. It may also used for cell phone text messages.

My sense is one reason why this style is used is because it is the style. Kids mimic what they see other kids doing. But I think that this style started because on the Internet punctuation, grammar, and correct spelling aren't considered nearly as important as getting your message out there as fast as you can and then moving on to the next thing. It's faster to write in run on sentences than it is to write in the lined poetry style that we older people were taught to use.

At any rate, it appears to me that run on sentences writing style is the signature form of informal writing for folks under 20 years old {and maybe younger than that}. Needless to say that the problem with this writing style is that you have to determine where one sentence {or line}ends and another one begins. You can do this if you remember that these formulaic rhymes adhere to a 4 line pattern with the rhyme {or near rhyme}occuring in the last word of the 2nd and 4th line. But still I think that this way of writing can result in some interpretation difficulties. For instance, erika sent in a number of rhymes that she said were her 'fav' {I'm 99.9% sure she means "favorites". However, I had to guestimate where one rhyme ended and the next one began. The more I think about it, the example in the last post was probably two separate rhymes {the first one ending where the period is after the word "frankie".

I'm going to email erika in hopes that she will verify my guess about this example. I'm also going to ask her if these two? rhymes are recited back to back {ie. do they flow into each other?}.
If I "hear" from erika, I'll let you know what she "said".

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 07 Nov 06 - 10:07 AM

Lemonade made in the shade and sold by Barnum Bailey.
A piece of ice in every glass as big as an elephant's
Ask your mother for 50 cents to see the monkeys sticking sticks up the elephant's
Hold on ladies! For those of you who can't swim the elephants are about to
Peanuts! 5 cents a bag!!

My grandfather (born 1922) used to quote this at the supper table after dinner. He was born, lived , and died in Berwyn, PA.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 01:17 AM

Has anyone heard:

Ally ally, chikoli chikoli,
Oollay oollay um pum pum
Chinese whispers, polly-wally whiskers
Do me a favour...drop dead!

OR:

Shirley Temple is a star S-T-A-R
First she does a cartwheel, then she does the splits
Then she does a (something,something??) just like this..(dance)

Subject: RE: Was-I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhyme
From: GUEST,SteveR
Date: 09 Nov 06 - 09:34 AM

Excuse me for jumping in...I dont know how else to get Toms attention.

Hi Tom.
I read your post about your Smallman steel string and I had to say, I've got the other one! I bought it in Sydney in 1979. I nearly bought your one, it was so hard to choose between them, but decided on the 14 fret instead. Its the most amazing guitar Ive ever played. Id love to exchange a pic or chat if you're interested.
Steve
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 04:54 PM

your fat im large.
bah

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 11:36 AM

We used to go around the playground with our arms linked and singing, "Girls go to Mars to get more candybars, boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider"

And we also would say, "anybody in the way gets a five cent kick and a ten cent Boom!" and we would kick out our legs on "kick" and bring up our knee on "boom". It sounds so awful now!!!

Waterville, Maine, 1970's

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,rachel
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:33 AM

brickwall, waterfall
_____ thinks she/he has it all but you dont and i do
so BOOM with that attitude
shark attack, shark attack you need a tic-tac! not one, not two but the whole dam pack!
bang bang choo choo train i got somethin you aint got so you mess with me and ill mess you up!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Kat
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 07:50 PM

This is what we used to say to people with bad breath:
Poof, begone your breath is to strong,
wait come back I found a tic-tac,
not one, not two, but the whole damn pack
sorry to be mean but ya need some listerine,
not a cup, not a swallow, but the whole damn bottle.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Kat
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 08:00 PM

I just thought of some that we used to use when we chose who was "It"
Train, Train number nine
goin' down Chicago line
if the train falls off it's track,
do you want your money back
(they say yes, or no)
Y-E-S and that spells yes
and you are not it

this is a hand clap game.
miss mary mack mack mack
all dressed in black black black
with silver buttons, buttons, buttons
all down her back, back, back
she asked her mother, mother mother
for fifty cents cents cents
to see the elephant, elephants elephants
jump over the fence, fence, fence
they jumped so high, high high
they touched the sky sky sky
they never came back back back
'til the fourth of july, ly, ly

here's another one:
miss susie had a steam boat, the steam boat had a bell
ding ding, miss susie went to heaven and the steamboat went to hell...o operator please give me number nine and if you disconnect me I will chop off your behind the fridgerator ther was a piece of glass miss susie sat upon it and it went up right her ass..k me no more questions tell me no more lies the boys are in the bathroom zipping up their flies are in the park the bees are in the meadow and the boys and girls are kissing in the D-A-R-K D-A-R-K DARK! DARK! DARK!..... I know I know my ma I know I know my pa, but I do not know my sister with a forty acre bra

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,lauretc4
Date: 28 Dec 06 - 05:31 PM

Here comes the broom
Sweeping up the room

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: DebbieOlsen
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 05:55 PM

Wow. I just joined and read this thread for the first time. Fantastic stuff--I've actually been thinking about these things lately as I raise my own children--I've been teaching them elimination rhymes from my childhood (near Boston, 1970s).

We would always start with "One Potato" by saying, "Put your potatoes in!" (The person counting would use his chin for his second potato.) This rhyme has already been submitted (one potato, two potato, three potato, four; five potato, six potato, seven potato, more.) Then we'd move on to the "Engine, engine" and "My mother and your mother" that are above. We also did, "Bubblegum, bubblegum, in a dish; how many pieces do you wish?" The person would choose a number (say it was 3) and you would say, "One, two, three and you are out."

Does anyone remember this one? It had some pretty elaborate hand motions--the same one as that McDonalds commercial ("Big Mac, filet-o-fish, quarter pounder, french fries, icey Coke, thick shake, sundae and aplle pie")

Oh jolly playmate, come out and play with me
And bring your dollies three;
Climb up my apple tree.
Slide down my rainbow into my cellar door,
And we'll be jolly friends forever more.

Oh jolly playmate, I cannot play with you.
My dollies have the flu;
They threw up in my shoe.
I have no rainbow; I have no cellar door,
But we'll be jolly friends forever more.

(This one we weren't supposed to sing, but did anyway)
Oh rotten enemy, come out and fight with me,
And bring your soldiers three,
Climb up my poison tree.
Slide down my razor into my dungeon door
And we'll be rotten enemies forever more.

Oh rotten enemy, I cannot play with you;
My soldiers have the flu--
They threw up in my shoe.
I have no razor; I have no dungeon door,
But we'll be rotten enemies forever more.

Now, the one I can't remeber much of but would really love to find someone who remebers started,

The spades go two lips together
Tie them forever
Bring back my love to me.
What is the meaning of this?
For all the fellows I've kissed
They tell the story
the story of l-o-v-e.

And nobody has mentioned
--- and ---, sitting in a tree,
k-i-s-s-i-n-g.
First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes (the boy) with a baby carriage.
Sucking his thumb, wetting his pants and doing the hula hula dance.

My 8 year old adds,
"That's not all, that's not all, I saw the baby peeing in the hall,
wearing a tutu and drinking alcohol."

By the way, after "I'm rubber, you're glue," we always added "Boarded, boarded, rainbow magic" as fast as we could so the other person couldn't say, "Except the good stuff!" It started out as black magic, but that scared my little sister so we had to change it. And I never heard "Eeny meeny miney mo" with a nigger instead of a tiger until I moved to Iowa--I always thought it was a tiger.

Debbie Olsen

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 07:27 PM

Greetings, Debbie Olsen!

Welcome to Mudcat.

I'm interested in a several of the rhymes that you posted, but would like to concentrate on the one which starts with the line "the spades go."

I found a couple of examples of 'The Spades Go" [for want of a better name] on this website: http://streetplay.com/discus/ Girl's games; Clap and Rhyme section

Here's one example:

"The spades the spades the spades go iny miny popsa kiney i love bomaragn a hop a scoth a liver roch a peach a plum i have a stick of chewing gum and if u want the other half this is wut you say: amen amen amendiego sandieago bostn bruins rah rah rah boo boo boo criss cross apple sauce do me a favor get lost while ur at it drop dead either that or lose ur head bang on trash cans bang on tin cans i can u can nobody else can sitting on the bench nuthing to do along comes some one..cohey coochey coo! andu tickle the other person"
-Sally on Friday, May 6, 2005

-snip-

And here's a comment that I posted on that website on Sunday, February 26, 2006 :

"And btw, with regard to another rhyme printed earlier on this site [and seen elsewhere], in my opinion, regarding the introductory phrase "The spades the spades the spades go", "the spades" means "the Black people".

I don't think it's meant to be offensive. Nor would it be taken that way because if it is recited nowadays, few people would "get" the original meaning."
-snip-

I believe that referent is from the spades suit in the game of cards and/or from the familiar [at least in my experience] saying "Black as the ace of spades". In my opinion, "the spades go" initially alluded to the source for the rhyme [ie. Black children] and serves as an introductionary statement that this is the way the rhyme was performed by those children. However, to continue my theory, as a result of the folk process, that meaning of that line was lost.

**
Debby, your version of that rhyme says "Thee spades go two lips together". Check out these two examples that I found from the Archive through June 8, 2000 of the Girl's games; Clap and Rhyme section of that streetplay website:

"One I remember is:
Tulips together twilight in heaven bring back my love to me. It was probably 2 lips - but I was an
innocent kid back then."
-Allison on Monday, April 12, 1999 - 06:31 pm

**

"Allison:

I remember that ... didn't it start ...

The spades go tulips together
twlight in heaven
bring back my love to me?

Or something like that?

Two girls would hold hands, arms outstretched in front, and sway back and forth while singing the verses... :)

There was another one with this line~

shimmy shimmy
coco pop
shimmy shimmy pop

Any memory jogs here?? :) "
-Butirfli@aol... on Tuesday, April 13, 1999

-snip-

I'm curious as to which was the original phrase "two lips" or tulips"? I guess we may never know, but either way what a wonderful example of folk etymology.

**

And remember that in that streetplay post given by Butirfli@aol, she wrote "There was another one with this line" [I am assuming this refered to the spades said tulips" line], Butifli@aol then wrote lines from the Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop rhyme?

Well, here's an example of a USA children's handclap rhyme that starts with the words "the blacks go":

SHIMMY SHIMMY COKE CA POP
The Blacks go down down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet sweet baby
I don't wanna let you go

Shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy
shimmy shimmy-pop!
Shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy
shimmy shimmy coke-ca-pop!

[Source: John Langstaff, Carol Langstaff "Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop!, A Collection of City Children's Street Games & Rhymes {Garden City, New York, Double Day & Co; p. 76; 1973}

-snip-

In my opinion, this rhyme and Butirfli@aol's comments lend credence to my theory about the meaning of the phrase "the spades go".

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 07:31 PM

Also, check out the very close similarities between the rhyme given by Sally on Friday, May 6, 2005 streetplay.com and this one:

"star spangle...
itsy bitsy teeny witsy ew oh to0-ba-leeny outsy whatsy sellahawts say the magic words.. i have a stick of chewing gum and if you want the other half.. this is what you say.. amen. amen. amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.. nothnig to do.. along comes a little baby goochy gochy goo..

i learned this as when i was litte.
-posted by brrittannee at March 25, 2005; http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Mo the caller
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:24 AM

I'm interested that you don't find 'spades' offensive Azizi. Nobody uses it in the UK except the sort of people who say 'wogs' and 'nigger'.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:44 AM

Hello, Mo.

In this recent Mudcat thread, Religious Trains & Chariot Songs I wrote that I flinched when I [unexpectedly] came upon the n-word. What made me flinch was my knowledge of that word's use as a derogatory individual & group referent for Black people. However, I recognized that that the person who posted that example of a spiritual that included the 'n word' did so because he believes in the importance of presenting these songs with the words that were written down and/or recorded when they were first collected. Given that context, after I acknowledged my reaction to the n-word [in that example],I moved on to the topic at hand.

In my opinion, context is highly important. Even if a person's motivation is historical research and analysis, I would take great exception to spirituals and other songs being publicly sung without a substitution of another word for the 'n-word'. See my comment on 29 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM about the continuing use of 'Black slave dialect in performances of spirituals' in that same Mudcat thread. And yes, the inclusion of the n-word is one of the reasons why I don't like many hip-hop songs.uch a song-or any song including hip-hop songs.

That said, my energy would be spent up if I flinched everytime I read the 'n word' on certain Mudcat threads. I supposed I had that visceral reaction that time because -even though that particular thread included quite a number of spirituals-I hadn't prepared myself to read that word. If I see that a thread is about minstrel songs or spirituals, I know that I will probably read dialectic examples, and so it is my choice to either avoid those threads or prepare myself psychologically to read the n-word and those long retired [if they were ever totally real] Black dialectic phrasings. I believe that I have stated my aversion to the 'n-word' enough times on this discussion forum that my aversion is known. But I felt the need on that Train/Chariot thread to say that my reaction is more than mental-it is physical & emotional.

The word 'spades' doesn't have even half the same negative reaction for me as the 'n word'. I believe that this is because I have so little experience with the word 'spades' being used as a referent for Black people. I barely recall its use [among Black people toward other Black people] in the 1960s and 1970s]. And I personally have no knowledge of 'Spades' being used as a referent for Black people nowadays.

See this entry from Urban Dictionary [warning-that page includes some profanity]:
"spade: A derogatory term for an African American, more commonly used in the post-Civil War era than today"

However, given your post, Mo, I gather that "spades" is currently used more often as a negative referent for Black people in the United Kingdom than in the USA. Is this what you are saying?

Having said this, I felt that I should include a message on that streetplay website and on this thread as a 'FYI" cautionary note to those who recite "The Spades go" rhyme-or teach this rhyme to children-that some people [I was thinking of Black people, but I can also understand how some non-Black people] might take exception to this referent and see it as being offensive, even if no offense was intended.

You will also note that in that same post on this thread that mentions 'the spades go two lips together', the poster mentions the '"Eeny meeny miney moe" rhyme and its' use of the 'n word' instead of the word 'tiger'. I decided to ignore that word and focus on what I considered to be a more worthwhile use of my energy & time-the presentation & analysis of examples of children's rhymes that are similar to 'The Spades Go' and had other similar lines.

Also, let me say this-because I'm a 'product' of the "Say It Loud, I'm Black And I'm Proud" movement, if [because] the word 'spades' as used for Black people refers to our dark skin color-then if I disliked that term, I would also be saying that I dislike black skin color. You see what I'm getting at?

Perhaps if I were a Black Briton who heard or read the term 'Spades' being used as a subsitute for the 'n-word', that word spades would be as loaded a term as the N-word is to me. Thankfully, I haven't had that experience.

Btw, Mo, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to think out load about the differences in my approach to these two words.

Happy New Year,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 08:54 AM

I acknowledge and apology for my poor cut & paste job in my last post.

And, Mo I gather from re-reading your post more carefully that you are saying that in the UK spades is used as a negative referent for Black people by certain people-the same people who use the other offensive referents that you cited. I see that your statement doesn't speak to the frequency of its use. I'm not sure how often the term 'spades' is used in the UK, and whether Black people and/or non-Black people there have a visceral reaction to that word when it is used as an individual or group referent. What I'm saying is that "spades" as a referent for Black people isn't very common in the USA, and thus does not have nearly as much built-in historical and present day negative connotations as the 'n-word' which is still being used in the USA and elsewhere.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:37 AM

Since we have entered into a discussion of the use of racial referents in children's rhymes, let me take this opportunity to say that as a result of my collection efforts for at least the last ten years, it appears to me that there are very few overt references to race in Black children's rhymes.

However, here's an example of one taunting rhyme that does mention race:

I'll be. be
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
Un-gawa. Un-gawa {baby}
This is my power.
What is the story?
What is the strike?
I said it, I meant it.
I really represent it.
Take a cool cool Black to knock me down.
Take a cool cool Black to knock me out.
I'm sweet, I'm kind.
I'm soul sister number nine.
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree.
I'm a Castle Square Black
Don't mess with me.

[Source: John Langstaff, Carol Langstaff "Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop!, A Collection of City Children's Street Games & Rhymes {Garden City, New York, Double Day & Co; p. 57; 1973}

-snip-

This rhyme is included as in the jump rope section of that book. However, perhaps because of the demise of the outdoor clothes line, which-I believe has had a negative impact on the frequency which which children jump rope-it appears to me that quite a few children's jump rope rhymes have become handclap rhymes...

Like many other children's rhymes, "I'll Be" [to give a title to the above rhyme {no title is given in that book]is composed by stringing together a number of floating verses. These floating verses can also stand alone. In my opinion, this rhyme can be divided into floaters/independent lines as follows:

I'll be. be
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
**
Un-gawa. Un-gawa {baby}
This is my power.
**
I said it, I meant it.
I really represent it.
**
Take a cool cool Black to knock me down.
Take a cool cool Black to knock me out.
**
I'm sweet, I'm kind.
I'm soul sister number nine.
**
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree.
**
I'm a Castle Square Black
Don't mess with me.

-snip-

I've collected other examples of American [USA] children's rhymes that separately contain most of these lines, including the "Ugawa" line. That line is lifted from a Black power saying from the late 1960s-"Ungawa, Black power!". I've also collected a couple of folk etymology reproductions of this line such as found in this excerpt of a longer "Down Down Baby/Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pa" rhyme:

"OOOH Johny,
Walkin down the street,
Ten Times a week,
I met it I said it
I stole my momma credit,
I'm cool,
I'm Hot,
Sock me in the stomach one more time..."
-Ashley at August 10, 2003 http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

I think that "Castle Square Black" is probably a referent to a neighborhood or possibly a resident of a housing development, but unfortunately that book gives no clue to which American city these rhymes come from.

**

As you can see, I'm fully in my analysis mode...It must be the Virgo in me.

;0)

Subject: Naughty Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Luke Forrester-UK
Date: 02 Jan 07 - 10:07 AM

I remember this one as a child:

It comes down the gutter like a piece of bread and butter diariah....diariah,

My mummy was'nt in so i did it in the bin diariah....diariah,

People think It's funny but It's really hot and runny diariah....diariah.

*The gap of silence between the first diariah and the second is equivalent to two syllables.
This was in the UK, so I'm not sure if it was in the US.
In my area, we use to add in between the diariahs "uh-uh",

So it would be:
It comes down the gutter like a piece of bread and butter diariah uh-uh diariah. etc.

But nobody else seems to know that one only those in my area from when I was younger.

Hope you liked it.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Tara From Brooklyn NY
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 08:50 PM

I grew up in a Catholic School playground in Brooklyn, in the early 80's. THese were three very popular songs that I wanted to share...enjoy!

One
Miss Lucy had a baby,
she named him Tiny Tim.
She put him in the bath tub,
to see if he could swim.
He drank up all the water,
he ate up all the soap,
he tried to eat the bath tub,
but it wouldn't go down his throat.
Miss Lucy called the Dr,
Miss Lucy called the nurse
Miss Lucy called the lady with the alligator purse.
Measles said the dr.
Mumps said the nurse,
_______ said the lady with the alligator purse.
Out walked the dr,
out walked the nurse
out walked the lady with the alligator purse.

Two
On top of old smokey, all covered with cheese,
I lost my poor meatball, when somebody sneezed.
It rolled off the table, and onto the floor,
and then my poor meatball, rolled right
out the door.
It rolled through the garden,
and under a bush,
then my poor meatball,
was nothin' but mush!

Three
Did you ever see a hearse go by
and you would think your'e the next to die.
they put you in a very small box,
they cover you up with dirt and rocks.
The worms crawl in, the works crawl out,
through your stomach and out your mouth.
So then you begin to say,
that this is the end to a very good day!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 10:03 PM

Did you ever see a hearse go by?
And know you'd be the next to die?
They wrap you up in a clean white sheet
and throw you under at least six feet
The worms crawl in the worms crawl out
The worms play peanukle on your snout
And one little worm, that won't be so shy
will crawl in your ear and out your eye

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Kat
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:41 PM

I remember most of the "Two lips" clapping song:


Two lips together
Tie them together
Bring back my love to me

What is the me-ee-ee-ning
Of all these flow-ow-ow -ers
This is the sto-o-o-ry
The story of love
From me to you

Our hearts go bumpity-ump-bump
Bumpity-ump-bump
Over the love of you


That's all I can recall.

The one that's driving me crazy trying to remember is a clapping song that had this thread in it - does this sound familiar to anyone?
(It may be in one of the earlier messages but I can't find it)

...(somebody's) brother John have a peach, have a plum have a stick of chewing gum and if you want another one this is what you say, Amen, Amen, Amendiego San Diego hocus focus dominocus...

And another one that went -

Calomine, calomine, calomine lotion
(repeat)
No no no no not the lotion
(repeat)
Itchy itchy scratchy scratchy ew I got one on my backy
(repeat)
Dead goes the bug when you spray it with the bug spray pssssh!
(repeat)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:18 PM

Guest Kat, there's a lot of different versions of "Take A Peach, Take A Plum" or whatever that family of rhymes is called.

Here's one:

"Shake, shake, shake
Eeny meeny
That's a queeny
Ooh ba Yhumbalina
Ah cha ca che Liberace
Oh baby I love you
Yes I do.
Take a peach
Take a plum
Take a piece of bubble gum
No peach
No plum
Just a piece of bubble gum
Oooshe ahshe
Oooshe ahshe
I want a piece of pie
The pie too sweet
I want a piece of meat
The meat too tough
I want to ride the bus
The bus too full
I want to ride the bull
The bull too black
I want my money back
The money too green
I want a diamond ring."

Barbara Michels, Bettye White, "Apples On A Stick, The Folklore of
Black Children" {1983, from Houston, Texas}

**

And here's an example from http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php that has that "Amen, Amen, Amendiego San Diego hocus focus dominocus"line:

"star spangle...
itsy bitsy teeny witsy ew oh to0-ba-leeny outsy whatsy sellahawts say the magic words.. i have a stick of chewing gum and if you want the other half.. this is what you say.. amen. amen. amen-deyago sedeyago hookes pookes sallamoskes sis.. sis .. sis coom ba.. everybody eerybody RA-RA-RA.. BOO-BOO-BOO.. sitting on a trash can banging on a tin can i can you can nobody else can sitting on a bench.. nothnig to do.. along comes a little baby goochy gochy goo..

i learned this as when i was litte.
-posted by brrittannee at March 25, 2005 "

**

I just love your "Calomine, calomine, calomine lotion/No no no no not the lotion" example. I think it's a great folk etymology example of the rhyme I call "como la vista".

There's a couple of examples from that "family" of rhymes:

"flea (flea)
fly (fly)
flea fly flew (ditto)
coomalata coomalata coomalata beestay
no no no no not the beestay

and ended in a sort of scat-rhythm: eee-biddlety-oaten-doaten-wahbat-skee-watten-tatten-SHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!"
{Source: RE: eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)
From: Bonnie Shaljean - PM
Date: 01 Jul 06 - 05:25 PM"

**

"Flea.. Flea fly.. Flea Fly Flow. Ama lama kuma lama kuma la vista, Oh oh oh oh not the vista vista, issilini dissilini Oo aa aa malini, akaraka, cukara ich bam boom, ip diddly ope en bope why not shout and bout........ssssssss.... Bang!...
-Danny at October 1, 2003 http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:23 PM

Hmmm, I see that I posted that one from brrittannee at March 25, 2005 earlier in this thread.

So I figure I owe you another example from the como la vista family.

Here's one from http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/flea.html :


Flea (repeat)

Flea fly (repeat)

Flea fly flow (repeat)

Feasta (repeat)

Cooma lotta cooma lotta cooma lotta feasta (repeat)

Oh no, no, no, na feasta (repeat)

Esca meany sala meany Oh-ah do ah-la meany (repeat)

Esca meany sala meany Oh-ah do ah (repeat)

With an epp bidily oatin doatin bo-dope skid eatin dats a what I can chew (repeat)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:26 PM

That "eena meena mackeracka (children's rhymes)" thread is found here:

thread.cfm?threadid=47148

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Kat
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:38 PM

The version of a song you referenced months back that I recall went something like this:

On top of spaghetti
all covered with cheese
I lost my poor meatball
when somebody sneezed
It rolled off the table
and onto the floor
and then my poor meatball
rolled out of the door
It rolled in the garden
and under a bush
And then my poor meatball
Was nothing but moosh

I don't recall the rest, if there was more (?).

How cone nobody's mentioned (unless I missed it) that horrible, endless "Found a peanut" song with which we used to torment the adults?

You know..

Found a peanut, found a peanut, found a peanut just now
just now I found a peanut, found a peanut just now
Cracked it open, cracked it open, cracked it open just now
Just now I cracked it open, cracked it open just now
It was rotten, it was rotten ,it was rotten just now...

and so on, and so on, and so on....it ends with dying, going to heaven and yes, finding a peanut.

Then the ones with hand gestures where you drop a line each round but keep up the hand gestures:

Little cottage in the wood
Little man by the window stood
Saw a rabbit hopping by
Knocking at my door
"Help me! Help me! Help me!" he said
Ere the hunter shoot me dead
I am simply filled with dread
Little rabbit come inside
Safely you may hide.

Then there was:

Little rabbit fru fru hopping through the forest
Snatching all the field mice and bopping them on the head
(I don't remember the rest...somebody?)

Another hand gesture ditty:

Under the spreading chestnut tree
There we sat just you and me
With my banjo on my kneee
Under the spreading chesnut tree

And one of my favorite songs from camp (no hand gestures), where one person sings and everyone else repeats each line like a chorus - it's a tad dark..

Bill Grogan's goat
Was feeling fine
Stole three red shirts
From off the line
Bill grabbed that goat
Gave him a whack
And tied him to
The railroad track

The whistle blew
The train grew nigh
Bill Grogan's goat
Was sure to die
He gave three groans
Of awful pain
Coughed up those shirts
And flagged the train.

There was another cute song called "The Cat Came Back" it's kind of long but I'll send it if you like. And one that went:

Ten little angels all dressed in white
tried to get to heaven on the end of a kite
the kite string broke and down they fell
instead of going to heaven they went to...

down through the numbers to "One" and then it starts over again with

Ten little devils all dressed in red
tried to get to heaven on the end of a thread
the thread it broke and down they fell
instead of going to heaven they went to

(backwards to "one" and then the smash ending)

Don't get excited don't lose your head
instead of going to heaven they all went to bed.


I'd love to know the derivation of some of these. I was born in the mid-50's and grew up in L.A., caucasian if you're interested. I remember almost all of the camp songs because of the repitition (6 years) - I won't bore you with all of them. The clapping and jump rope songs are a bit hazy.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Kat
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:47 PM

Thanks Azizi for the "Cooma lotta cooma lotta cooma lotta feasta"! Thanks to you, snatches of the rhyme are coming back - sounds like there are lots of versions. I remember the "ache chachi Libarace Anna's brother John" part (who are Anna and John I wonder?)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Kat
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:52 PM

Ooh I remember a taunt, is it on here?

Baby baby suck your thumb
wash it off with bubble gum

(It's funny how some of these make no sense - and we thought we were being really mean)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 08:49 PM

Thanks for sharing examples, Guest Kat!

Just to touch on one rhyme you mentioned, there's verses to a secular African American slave song called "Raise A Rukus Tonight" that may be the bases for the "Ten little angels all dressed in white" children's rhyme. It's included in Thomas W. Talley's 1922 book "Negro Folk Rhymes".

**

Here's another possible source for that "como la vista" rhyme which I think has a Spanish origin:

Cumbanchero
Words and Music by RAFAEL HERNÁNDEZ, 1940[introduced by Desi Arnaz]
- Many thanks to ACoolPRican84 for translating this song -

A cumba-cumba-cumba cumbanchero
A bongo-bongo-bongo bongocero
Pri-qui-ti que va sonando
El cumbanchero bongocero que se va
Bongocero que se va

A cumba-cumba-cumba cumbanchero
A bongo-bongo-bongo bongocero
Pri-qui-ti que va sonando
El cumbanchero bongocero que se va
Bongocero que se va

Y suena asi el tambor: pri-qui-ti bum-bam
Y vuelve a repicar: pri-qui-ti bum-bam

A cumba-cumba-cumba cumbanchero
A bongo-bongo-bongo bongocero
Pri-qui-ti que va sonando
El cumbanchero bongocero que se va
Bongocero que se va

A cumba-cumba-cumba drumplayer
A bongo bongo bongo bongoplayer
Pri-qui-ti the sound that it's making
When the drumplayer that goes by
Bongoplayer that goes by

A cumba-cumba-cumba drumplayer
A bongo bongo bongo bongoplayer
Pri-qui-ti the sound that it's making
When the drumplayer that goes by
Bongoplayer that goes by

And the drum sounds like this pri-qui-ti-bum-bam
And again he repeats pri-qui-ti-bum-bam

A cumba-cumba-cumba drumplayer
A bongo bongo bongo bongoplayer
Pri-qui-ti the sound that it's making
When the drumplayer that goes by
Bongoplayer that goes by

From: Mudcat thread: Mexican Folk Songs
thread.cfm?threadid=46731&messages=31

**

Btw: Kat, why don't you join our forum? It's easy, just follow the steps given in the Membership section in the top right hand corner of this page. Of course, you don't have to join. But, if you do, there is already an active member named "Kat" so you if you want to keep that name, it probably would be best if you added a last initial to your first name or chose another tag name.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 09:35 PM

Actually there are over ten variations of "Kats" on the Mudcat, even a lower case "kat" as I sign even though I am "katlaughing." Regardless, welcome to Max's site, the Mudcat, "Guest, Kat."

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: JennyO
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 08:13 AM

I think I remember all of On Top of Spaghetti. So here it is with the last bit added (as I remember it)

On top of spaghetti
all covered with cheese
I lost my poor meatball
when somebody sneezed.

It rolled off the table
and onto the floor
and then my poor meatball
rolled out of the door.

It rolled in the garden
and under a bush
And then my poor meatball
Was nothing but moosh. (I would actually spell it mush, but pronounced moosh)

The moosh was as tasty
As tasty can be
And early next summer
It grew into a tree.

The tree was all covered
With beautiful moss
It grew lovely meatballs
With tomato sauce.

So if you eat spaghetti
all covered with cheese
Hold onto your meatball
And don't ever sneeze.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 03:15 PM

JennyO, HERE's a version of that I wrote for our old dog.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 05:53 AM

Ha ha! Thanks for that Kat. I hadn't seen it before - it was before I joined Mudcat. Nice way to remember your old dog - I'm sure he appreciated it from doggy heaven. I wonder if they have pasta in heaven?

Oh dear, this has made me think of a weird song that a friend of mine wrote, called "Jesus is the 'pasta' in my life". I suppose I should get the words from him, even though it is truly awful :-)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,reader
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 06:22 PM

no no i know one similar

fudge fudge
call the judge
----'s having a baby
rap it up in toilet paper
throw it down the escalator
boy, girl, twin, triplets

and then whatever the person stoped the rope or something that is what they will (have) when they are older.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:17 PM

im rubber,your glue
and you smell like pooh
your nose is like a carrot
and youve lips like a shoe

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 09:58 PM

i always sang:
there's a place in France where the naked ladies dance
there's a hole in the wall where the men watch it all
but the ladies don't care 'cause they're in their underwear.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Muttley
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 02:52 AM

G'day Azizi

Not sure where you're from, but over here in Australia, some years ago a bloke collected DOZENS of kids rhymes and collated them as books.

The books were:

"Far Out, Brussel Sprout"
"All Right, Vegemite" and
"Unreal, Banana Peel"

They were by June Factor (author/compiler) and Peter Viska (Illustrator) and were available from Oxford University Press; Melbourne.

June Factor was (from memory) a lecturer at the Institute of Early Childhood Development; Madden Grove. Kew. Victoria. Australia (postcode) 3101

The ISBN of "Unreal" and "Far Out" are 0 19 554780 2 and
0 19 554440 4; rspectively.

Sorry, I no longer have a copy of "All Right Vegemite" so I can't give you its ISBN.

You may find them on Ebay or Amazon or even HalfPrice.com or alternatively; try writing to the IECD in Kew (or look them up on the web) and try them.

Good Luck

Muttley

BTW - each book is about 110 pages with one or two rhymes, chants etc on each page.

I'll PM this to you as well - just in case

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 05:34 AM

Thanks for the information about those books, Muttley.

Btw, I'm from the USA {I live in Pittsburgh, PA but grew up in New Jersey}.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,d
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:30 AM

Concentration *clap, clap*
64 *clap, clap*
no repeats *clap, clap*
or hesitations *clap, clap *
I'll go first *clap, clap*
'n' you'll go second *clap, clap* (Depends on the amount of people.)
The category is *clap, clap * (enter category) *clap, clap *

(so you say your category, with claps in between, like Paint, *clap, clap* Blue paint. *clap, clap* Orange paint *clap, clap* till you have run out or reached the number you decide to end on! – Then you move to the next person. And remember NO hesitations! - if you do you are OUT!)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Pitheris
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 04:01 PM

Quote*
i always sang:
there's a place in France where the naked ladies dance
there's a hole in the wall where the men watch it all
but the ladies don't care 'cause they're in their underwear. /Quote*

We sang "Oh the girls don't wear pants on the other side of France"
to the tune of "Streets of Cairo".

We rarely used eenie-meanie for choosing who was "it".

We did this rhyme:

My mother and your mother hanging out the clothes,
My mother punched your mother in the nose,
What color blood came out,
Red,
R E D spells red.

The speaker could change the color of the blood to try to manipulate the results.


My Father's in the Navy,
My Mother's in the Marines,
My Sister's on the toilet,
Bombing submarines.


Kindergarten babies,
Stick you head in gravy,
Wash it out with bubblegum,
And then you're in the Navy.


Liar, liar pants on fire,
Nose is longer than a telephone wire,
Stick you head in a jelly jar,
Then you wonder where you are.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 04:20 PM

Thanks for posting those examples, Pitheris.

It would be great if you would share what city/state/and or nation you're from {where you learned these rhymes} and when {which decade}.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Mike
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 06:45 AM

From 1940s - early 1960s childhood in Manchester, UK.

All the girls in France
Do a the hula-hula dance
Singing "Micky put your dicky
Next to mine"


There's a copper on the corner
Eating apple pie
I asked him for a skinny bit
He hit me in the eye
I went and told my mother
My mother wouldn't come
So I got a red-hot poker
And stuck it up his bum.


Silence in court
The judge is dead
Somebody farted
And blew off his head


Those are just a sample - any more, please let me know.

Mike

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 02:58 PM

The line "More Parks sausages, Mike" just popped in my head.

That's a take off of an American ad which probably is already listed with the other jingles in this Mudcat thread: thread.cfm?threadid=52618

What I meant by that line, Mike {and others} is that it would be great if you would post more examples of children's rhymes and taunts.

Btw, thanks for including demographical information {the geographical location and the decade{s} that you remember hearing and/or reciting these rhymes}!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Meic
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 02:48 PM

LOL

I posted a couple more under "Naughty kids' greatest hits II"

I'll remember others no doubt.

btw Meic [Welsh] = Mike

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Shotzie
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:16 AM

Little Bunny Fru Fru hopping through the forest scooping up the feild mice and bopping them on the head.
Down came the fairy and said, "Little Bunny Fru Fru I don't want to see you scooping up the feild mice and bopping the on the head. [Spoken] I'll give you three chances, and if you do it again I'll bop you on the head."
So the very next day..."Repeat" Change three chances, to two chances.
"                            " Change to one more chance.
"                            "
Little buny Fru Fru you've used up all your chances, now I'm going to get you and bop you on the head.



I'm curious if anyone remembers this one:

I'm bringing home a baby bumblebee,
Won't my mommy be so proud of me,
I'm bringing home a baby bumblebee,
Ouch! It stung me!
I'm squishing up the baby bumblebee,
Won't my mommy be so proud of me,
I'm squishing up a baby bumblebee,
Ooh! It's yucky!
I'm wiping off the baby bumblebee,
Won't my mommy be so proud of me,
I'm wiping off the baby bumblebee,
Now my mommy won't be mad at me!


Patty cake patty cake bakers may
bake me a cake as fast as you can.
Roll it, and pat it, and mark it with a "B"
And put it in the over for "Baby" and me.

You can subsitute the "B" with the letter of your crush or friend or whomever. Then where it says "Baby" you say their name.


I would also like to know if anyone knows any other "Boom boom baby" "shimmy shimmy cocoa puff" variations. I used to sing it years ago but the ones I've read here are different from what I knew.

"I've been working on the rail-road, all the live-long day."
Fill in the rest anyone?


Circa 1990's Southern California.
Mostly white children.

McDonalds is my kind of place!
They feed you rattle snakes.
Hamburgers from up your nose.
French fries from between your toes.

That's all I have for the above one. My mom taught it to me in the 90's so she learned it somewhere between the 60's and 90's.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 09:20 PM

I'm curious if anyone here knows this rhyme:

ABC
abc, easy as 123, my momma takes care of me, my daddy watches mtv, ooh ahh i want a piece of pie, pie to sweet i wanna piece of meat, meat to rough i wanna ride a bus, bus too full i wanna ride a bull, bull not black i want my money back, money back too green i wanna jelly bean, jelly bean not cooked i wanna read a book, book not read i wanna go to bed, bed not made i want some lemonade, lemonade too sour i wanna take a shower, shower too cool i wanna go to school, school too dumb i wanna suck my thumb, thumb to dirty i wanna ride a birdie, birdie too slow and thats all i know, so close your eyes and count to ten, whoever messes up starts all over again, 12345678910...noone messed up so thats the end!
-elle; www.cocojams.com; 4/3/2007

-snip-

The "ABC/easy as 1,2,3" line comes from the hit record titled "ABC" by the R&B group Jackson 5. The "Ooh Aah" lines that substitute one thing after the other reminds me of the "I went to the river but I couldn't get across" folk songs where one animal or one thing is traded for another animal or thing which then proves faulty and is therefore traded for yet another thing.

Is there a name for this pattern of song or rhyme?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 09:29 PM

Here's another children's handclap rhyme that begins with that line from the Jackson 5 song, and includes a variation of the lines about mommy and daddy. But then this example adds lines from another rhyme, one which I have found recited independently, or in combination with other rhymes:

A.B.C.
It's easy as 1.2.3.
My momma takes care of me.
My father don't yell at me.

Caught you with your boyfriend.
Naughty, Naughty.
Didn't do the dishes.
Lazy, Lazy.
Ate all the candy
Greedy, greedy.
Jumped out the window.
Man, you're crazy!
-multiple sources; collected by Azizi Powell,1999; posted on Cocojams on 2/26/2006

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Danielle (15)
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:05 PM

*Clappy Hand Game from Elementary School*

Down by the bank say the hankie pankie
where the bull frog jump from bank to bankie
said eeps ipes opes oops listen to the chillie willie ding dang dong.

*added throughout years*

I pledge allegiance to the flag,
Micheal Jackson is a fag,
Coca-cola brought him up,
Now he's drinking Seven-Up,
Seven-Up has no caffeine,
Now he's drinking Belly-Gene,
Belly-Gene is out of style,
Now he's just a wild child,
Boy scouts, boy scouts do your duty,
Don't forget to wash your booty,
I have more money than you!

Another clappy game (my friends and I still sing today)

Miss Susie had a steam boat, the steam boat had a bell, Miss Susie went to heaven and the steam boat went to hell...o operator give me number nine and if you disconnect me I will chop off your...behind the fridgerator ther was a piece of glass Miss Susie sat upon it and broke her little ass..k me no more questions tell me no more lies the boys are in the bathroom zipping up their flies are in the meadow the bees are in the park and Miss Susie and her boyfriend are kissing in the D-A-R-K D-A-R-K DARK! DARK! DARK!..... I know I know my ma I know I know my pa, I know I know my sister with a forty acre bra, my ma is godzillia my dad is King Kong my sister is the stupid one who made up this dumb song.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 07:34 PM

Thanks, Danielle, for sharing the version of "I Pledge Allegiance To The Flag".

For those who don't know it, these lines refer to the famous R&B singer Michael Jackson. The reference to "Coca-cola brought him up" refers to the incident in 1984 when Michael Jackson's hair caught on fire while he was filming a Pepsi-Cola {not Coca-Cola} commercial. At the time of this freak accident, Jackson was singing his 1983 hit record Billie-Jean. The name "Billie-Jean" has been changed to "Belly-Gene" in the above rhyme. Other versions of this rhyme can be found on
this handclap rhyme can be found on this Mudcat thread: "Origins: Down by the Banks of the Hanky Panky"
thread.cfm?threadid=94034

Here is one of those posts:

Subject: RE: Origins: Down by the Banks of the Hanky Panky
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 08:31 AM

Also, fwiw, unfortunately, I think the implied homophobia in the line "I pledge allegiance to the flag/Michael Jackson is a fag" does ring true to contemporary children's rhymes.

I've seen that line elsewhere in various websites on children's rhymes. And I heard this line recited by a couple of second grade African American girls in Pittsburgh children as part of the "Mama Mama Can't You See" rhyme:

"they say Michael Jackson is a fag
put him in a plastic bag"

-snip-

Since I detest homophobia, I much prefer the version as given on this thread by GUEST 30 Nov 06 - 09:28:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
Micheal Jackson makes me gag"

-snip-

Of course, then the question is why would R&B singer Michael Jackson make anyone gag?

I haven't got a clue.

;o)

-snip-

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/27/newsid_4046000/4046605.stm for more information of Michael Jackson's accident while filming the Pepsi commercial.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 07:48 PM

Btw, Danielle, "the Boy scouts, boy scouts do your duty" line in that "I pledge allegiance" rhyme is similar to a jump rope rhyme that I remember singing as a child in the 1950s {Atlantic City, New Jersey}.

Postman Postman do your duty
Here comes {insert name}
an American beauty
She can wiggle
She can wobble
She can do the splits*
But I bet you 5 dollars
She can't do this...

* splits was later changed to "twist" when that dance was popular

The fact that kids in Atlantic City said "an American beauty" since the Miss America beauty pagent was held there every year.

However, at about the 1980s or 1990s, I've collected examples from African American girls in Pittsburgh, Pa area in which the line "Here comes ___ an American beauty" has been change to "Here comes {insert name} with her African booty".

Nowadays {and maybe earlier} an "African booty" means a big butt. This is a compliment now but it definitely wouldn't have been a compliment when I was growing up.

In that instance, anyway, things have changed for the better.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Mo the caller
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 09:54 AM

Azizi, your post of ABC on 03 Apr 07 - 09:20 PM reminds me of the song (I don't know if it was a folk song before some composer got hold of it)
Hush little baby don't say a word
Mumma's gonna buy you a mocking bird

If that mocking bird don't sing
Mumma' gonna buy you a diamond ring

....????....(lots more purchases what a Spoilt baby!)

If that ??? falls down
You'll still be the prettiest little baby in town

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 12:09 PM

Correction:
"Postman Postman/Do Your Duty" should have been:

Policeman Policeman/ Do Your Duty"

I was surprised and pleased that in the 1980s I heard my daughter and her friends recite "Policelady Policelady". Maybe there were women who were police when I was growing up, but I can't recall any.

I suppose 'do your duty' meant to give the person who can 'wiggle, and wobble and do the split' {or "do the twist"}.

Even though the girls were saying to the police officer "do your duty" by giving the girl a kind of citation or arrest her because she's shaking her derriere too much {according to 'adult proper society', they actually showing off how well they could do those moves.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 12:13 PM

Mo, here's the Mockingbird song that I think you were referring to:


HUSH, L'IL BABY

Hush, l'il baby, don't say a word
Mama's gonna buy you a mockin'bird.

If that mockin'bird don't sing
Mama's gonna buy you a diamond ring

If that diamond ring turns brass,
Mama's gonna buy you a looking glass.

.........gets broke
.........billygoat.

.........don't pull,
.........cart and bull

.........turn over
..........dog named Rover
..........won't bark
..........horse and cart.

..........fall down,
Then you'll be the sweetest li'l baby in town.

@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2772

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:36 AM

Here's an example of profanity avoidance in children's cheerleader cheers:

"This is a funny one for older teams:
Strawberry Shortcake, Banana Split, we make you team look like, shift to the left, shift to the right, sit down stand up, fight, fight, fight!"
-Lou ; 7/16/2006

**

Another version of that cheer is:

strawberry shortcake, banana split your team plays like a pile of shift to the left, shift to the right stand up, sit down, fight fight fight!
-Nicole; 10/7/2006

-snip-

Both versions are posted on http://www.cocojams.com/cheerleader_cheers.htm

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,BBG
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:51 AM

I was reading and i was amazed to not see a ceartain ryme...

My mom gave me a nickle she said to buy a pickle I did not buy a pickle instead i bought some bubblegum BAZOOKA ZOOKA bubble gum!

MY mom gave me a dime she said to buy a lime I did not buy a lime instead I bought some bubblegum BAZOOKA ZOOKA bubblegum.

MY mom gave me a quarter she said to buy some water I did not buy some water instead I bought some bubblegum BAZOOKA ZOOKA bubblegum.

MY mom gave me a five she said to stay alive I did not stay alive instead I choked on bubblegum! BAZOOKA ZOOKA bubblegum.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 12:52 PM

GUEST,BBG,

Thanks for posting that example. As you may know, in 2006 the Bazooka Bubblegum Company {I'm not sure if that's the corporation's formal name} started a marketing campaign that uses this song-but with a far different ending than the kid's street version has.

Here's a Mudcat thread that provides some examples that led to that song/rhyme as well as some information on that song's tune:
thread.cfm?threadid=71236&messages=32 "Penny to buy chewing gum/Gershwin?"

Also, BBG, I hope that you don't mind that I took the liberty of posting your example of this rhyme on a Mudcat thread that I started on Bazooka Zooka Bubble Gum and related subjects:

thread.cfm?threadid=102593&messages=1

Thanks again!

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:06 PM

Here's the way I was taught "Funny Bird Frag Are":

What a funny bird the frog are.
When he stand up he sit.
When he walk he jump.
He ain't got no tail much hardly.
And when he die he croak.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:21 AM

Comet, it makes your mouth turn green
Comet, it tastes like Listerine
Comet will make you vomit
So get some Comet...and vomit...today.

The tune this is sung to is some sort of military song, not sure what it is.

---

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

P.S. It's the Colonel Bogey March, part of the theme song from Bridge Over the River Kwai.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: cookster
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:42 PM

Deck the halls with gasoline.            [sung to Deck the Halls]
Fa,La,La,La,La,La,La,La,La
Light a match and watch it gleam.
Fa,La,La,La,La,La,La,La,La
Watch the school burn down to ashes.
Fa,La,La,La,La,La,La,La,La
Aren't you glad I play with matches
Fa,La,La,La,La,La,La,La,La

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:36 PM

Today US President Bush indicated through his attorney that he wasn't going to honor the Senate's subpoenas for documents that could shed light on the firing of federal prosecutors.

Here's what a poster on the progressive political blog "dailykos" imagined Bush saying.

"No, we won't and you can't make us!

NYAH NYAH, Nanny-boo-boo!!"

-snip-

That post lead to these comments:

" No, no, it's
Nanny-nanny boo-boo,
Stick your head in doo-doo!"

**

"I believe it's a regionalism.

I've also heard:

Nanner, Nanner!

and

Neener, Neener!"

**

"and Nanny Nanny Poo Poo.."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/28/9422/63082


-snip-

I never heard {or said} any of these. Instead, when I was growing up in Southern New Jersey {USA} we said in a sing song voice,
"Nah NahNah Nah Nah".

I guess that means the same thing as those other examples...

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,firemonkey
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 09:00 PM

Shotzie - here's the song lyrics you were looking for - I've Been Working on the Railroad is an oldie

I've been working on the railroad
all the live long day
I've been working on the railroad
just to pass the time away
can't you hear the whistle blowing
ris upr so early in the morn
can't you hear the captain shouting
Dinah blow your horn

Oh Dinah won't you blow, Dinah won't you blow
Dinah won't you blow your ho-o-orn
Dinah won't you blow, Dinah won't you blow
Dinah won't you blow your horn

Someone's in the kitchen with Dinah
someone's in the kitchen I know-oh-oh-oh
someone's in the kitchen with Dinah
Strummin' on the old banjo

And singin' fee fifiddly I oh
fee fi fiddly I on-oh-oh-oh
fee fi fiddly I oh
strumi' on the old banjo

(I, formerly Guest Kat, grew up in Southern Cali in the 50s and 60s)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: firemonkey
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 09:23 PM

Hi Azizi - I just signed up as an official member (yay) and posted, but I don't see my post.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: firemonkey
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 09:25 PM

OK, that was weird - here's the one I sent before

This was a camp song, does anyone remember how it goes?

Seek and ye shall find
Knock and the door shall be opened
Ask and it shall be given
And the love(?) come a (something) down

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: firemonkey
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 09:42 PM

I remember this one

Order in the court!
The monkey wants to speak
The first one to talk
is a monkey for a week!

Any "Beany and Cecil" fans? Remember Cecil the Seasick Seaserpent singing

I say R
I say R A
I say G
I say G G
R A G G M O P P
Rag mop
doodly doo doo doo-doo-doo
Rag mop
doodly doo doo doo-doo-doo

Where did Bob Clampett get that ditty I wonder?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 11:16 PM

Welcome firemonkey!

I'm glad you've taken the plunge!

See ya around the 'Cat!

In the fine tradition of Mudcatdom, I've started this welcome thread for you thread.cfm?threadid=103493&messages=1

Check it out!

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 04:00 AM

Written by Deacon Anderson and Johnnie Lee Will

M - I say M-O
M-O-P
M-O-P-P
Mop
M-O-P-P Mop Mop Mop Mop

R
I Say R-A
R-A-G
R-A-G-G
Rag
R-A-G-G-M-O-P-P

Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlydoo-dah-dyadoo
R-A-G-G-M-O-P-P Raggmop

A-I say A-B
A-B-C
A-B-C-D
A-B-C-D-E
A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I

I say M-O
M-O-P
M-O-P-P
Mop
M-O-P-P Mop Mop Mop Mop

R - I Say R-A
R-A-G
R-A-G-G
Rag
R-A-G-G-M-O-P-P

Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlyboo-bah-dyadoo
Ragmop
Doodlydoo-bah-dyadoo R-A-G-G-M-O-P-P Raggmop Mop Mop

©1950, published by Hill and Range Songs

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,one-time poster
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 09:04 PM

Michigan 1970's:

Here's the church
here's the steeple
open the doors
and here's all the people

(has hand gestures for each line)



Bumblebee, bumblebee
come from the barn
come and sting _____
right under the arm

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Bart
Date: 18 Aug 07 - 11:50 AM

I was searching for the lyrics to the choo-choo train song to teach to my nephew. You got more than I did, but one line I remembered is missing: "he won his fame and glory, and so ends the story of the little train that blew his nose (a-choo)".

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,ashley
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 07:11 PM

agervation weabllattion agervation this is how we play
first we take a bowlling ball then we throught it
down the hall hits you dad makes him madd o0o0o0o0o0
agervation agervation this is how we play
then you take a cherry bom the you through it at your
mom makes her cry then she dies o00o0oo0o0
agervation agervation this is how we play
last you take a garden hose then you shove it up your
nose turn it on then your gone o0o00oo00o0
agervation agervation THAT IS HOW WE PLAY!!
         from ashley,a kid i made it up.a long time ago.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Kent Davis
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 11:14 PM

Guest of 28 June,

The tune is "Colonel Bogey's March". We sang:

Comet, it makes your teeth so green,
Comet, it tastes like gasoline,
Comet, it makes you vomit,
So get Comet and vomit today.

I learned it in Kegley, WV, around 1970.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,kristi kennedy
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 02:34 PM

I once met a man named michele finagin.
he had some hair on his chinagian.
one fell out, and one grew in again.
there once was a man named michele finagin begin again.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Becca72
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 03:53 PM

In southern Maine in the late 70's/early 80's our Little Bunny Fu Fu went:

Little Bunny Fu Fu hoppin' through the forest scoopin' up the field mice and boppin' em on the head.
Along came the Goooood Fairy and she said:
"Little Bunny Fu Fu I don't wanna see you scoopin' up the field mice and boppin' em on the head. I'll give you three chances before I turn you into a goon".
And the next day:
Little Bunny Fu Fu hopping through the forest scoopin' up the field mice and boppin em on the head.
And along came the Gooood Fairy and she said:
"Little Bunny Fu Fu I don't wanna see you scoopin' up the field mice and boppin em on the head. You have 2 chances before I turn you into a goon"
And the next day:
Little Bunny Fu Fu hoppin' through the forest scoopin' up the field mice and boppin' em on the head.
Along came the Goooood Fairy and she said:
"Little Bunny Fu Fu I don't wanna see you scoopin' up the field mice and boppin' em on the head. You have one more chance before I turn you into a goon".
And the NEXT day:
Little Bunny Fu Fu hoppin' through the forest scoopin' up the field mice and boppin' em on the head.
And along came the Goooood Fairy and she said:
"Little Bunny Fu Fu I don't wanna see you scoopin up the field mice and boppin em on the head. You've used up all your chance and now *poof* you're a goon.

And the moral to this story is....hare today, goon tomorrow.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Becca72
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 04:01 PM

We also had a game that I remember mostly playing with my great aunt when I was a little kid. She would pounce us on her knees and sing
Trot trot to Boston
Trot trot to Lynne
Look out little girl
You're gonna fall IN (at which point she would spread her knees and pretend to drop us).

I have a feeling this is pretty regional, as Boston and Lynne refer to the cities in Massachusetts. Again, this was in southern Maine.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,GUEST, Dopy
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 12:25 AM

The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out, up your nose and out your mouth.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,doggo
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 02:10 PM

the "comet" one reminded me of this one (learned in bakersfield in 1964 or so):

Brush your teeth with Sani-Flush
Don't even need a brush
All you do is slop it on
One-two-three your teeth are gone

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Norman
Date: 14 Jan 08 - 07:50 PM

Counting who is "it".

We had one in Glasgow when I was a boy in the late 50s early 60s. It was themed around canine scatalogy -

Eelie Oalie,
Dug's toalie,
You are het!

Het being a variation of hit, meaning it.

It had one great advantage for the playground (apart from appealing to kids). It was fast - boys were interested in the game, not the rhyme. I remember the girls used to spend much longer on the rhymes!

Check this page out:
http://www.glesga.ukpals.com/folk/memorylanesongs.htm
I remember many of these being chanted or sung by girls with a tag of "you are it" or "you are het" with the rhythm of these last three words adjusted to suit the preceeding rhyme.

If anyone wants these translated from Weegie to English (OK Glaswegian) don't ask me, find a Weegie yersel'!

Regards, Norman

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,thanslin
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:33 PM

Please don't think me peculiar, but I vividly "remember" making up that I'm made of rubber, you are made of glue....." rhyme at about age six in 1949. Do you think that childhood memories distort the facts that way, or is it plausible that I did make up the rhyme?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:03 AM

GUEST,thanslin,

Actually, I'm not sure if anyone knows if this rhyme/taunt was around before 1949.

It would be interesting to find out.

But if it's you who we have to thank for creating the "I'm rubber/you're glue" taunt, then thanks a lot.

It's a really witty rhyme.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 05:37 AM

The first piece of folklore I ever collected in the field was from Peter Best on my first day at Shiremoor Infants School, Northumberland in epteber 1966, aged five. I remember it to this day, largely account of my insane mother washing my mouth out with soap and water when I proudly recited it to her upon getting home:

Ching-Chong the Chinaman went to milk a cow,
Ching-Chong the Chinaman didn't know how;
Ching-Chong the Chinaman pulled the wrong tit,
Ching-Chong the Chinaman got a mouth full of shit.

Otherwise:

Tarrara-boom-dee-ay, the teacher pumped today
She blew the school away, now we're on holiday

And the totally vile:

Yum-yum bubble gum, push it up the teacher's bum;
If it sticks, suck her tits; yum-yum-bubblegum.

Funny how these things linger...

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 05:38 AM

epteber?? September of course...

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Baby*Shake
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 11:31 PM

i went down town to see Charlie Brown
he gave me a nickle so i bough a pickle
the pickle was sour so he gave me a flower
the flower was dead and this is what he said
"down down baby down by the ocean,
sweet sweet baby never should i let you go,
chity chity bang bang i know kar-out-tay,
chity chity bang bang show off your body,
chity chity bang bang freeze.
and never ever let your mama say tell you to say please

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,kfo
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM

Does anyone remember something like this:

Order in the courthouse,
The monkey wants to speak.
No laughing, no smiling
No showing your teeth!

Then if anyone talked or smiled, etc, they were "it".

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Jay
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 02:40 PM

On the Shirley Temple rhyme - As a kid growing up in New Zealand (1970's) while waiting in line we used to hear this variant from the girls
"Shirley Temple is a Star, S..T..A..R..
She can do the wibble-wobble, she can do the splits
She can lift her dress right up to her hips!"
At which point they would briefly lift up their skirt (like we boys cared at that age)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 12:22 AM

from an unattributed GUEST post which is not allowed:

I remember:

Order in the court
the monkey wants to speak
the first one to speak is
the monkey for the week.

My parents used to use it on long car trips to try to get me not to talk.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 12:42 AM

Big Mick, thanks for re-posting that example.

I'm guessing that some of the Guests who post to Mudcat threads about children's rhymes are children or pre-teens who found those threads through Google or other search engines and don't know that the policy of Mudcat is to add a name to the "Guest" referent when they post examples.

I'm hoping that anyone wanting to share examples of children's rhymes in these threads will now know that they have to add a name to their post along with the word GUEST.

By the way, it also would be great if anyone posting examples or comments about rhymes or songs would remember to include demographical information, particularly the geographical location {city/state/and nation if the nation is outside of the USA} and the year that she or he remembers reciting or hearing the rhyme.

Thanks, again!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 12:52 AM

Ammended comment:

Some of these post may be from adults, children, and teens who don't know that they are supposed to pick a screen name when they post on Mudcat.

But since that is Mudcat's policy, I hope people who post remember to choose a screen name.

Also, why not join Mudcat? Membership is free and easy to do. Just click on the membership tap up the top near the right hand corner of this page, and follow the instructions which are provided.

I hope folks will continue sharing the songs/rhymes/and comments about those songs and rhymes either as a guest who uses the same name whenever they post on Mudcat, or as a Mudcat member.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 12:52 AM

Happy to do it, Azizi. And thanks to our GUEST for the contribution. Why don't you consider joining our merry band and helping us a bit more?

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 11:32 AM

Here's an example that was recently sent to my website on children's rhymes.


Your Mama Don't Wear No Drawers

Here is an insult rhyme my sister, cousins, and I used to get into a lot of trouble repeating...but it was so much fun to say them and make up new lines. Birmingham, AL, 1980s and early 90s

Yo mama don't wear no draws (ba ba boom}*
i saw when she took them off (ba ba boom}
she put em in the washing machine {ba ba boom}
ajax couldn't get em clean {ba ba boom}
she put em on top of the house {ba ba boom}
they scared away mighty mouse {ba ba boom}
she put em up under the bed {ba ba boom}
you shoulda heard what the roaches said {ba ba boom}
she put up on top of the tracks {ba ba boom}
that train went 50 miles back {ba ba boom}
she put em in the middle of the street {ba ba boom}
those cars went beep beep beep {ba ba boom}

that's all that i can remember...but the taunt could go on forever. we would add to it every time someone thought of something new. but man, our parents hated us singing this around the house.
-Joi; 3/23/2008; http://cocojams.com/taunting_rhymes.htm

-snip-

*In her entry to Cocojams, Joi wrote that "ba ba boom is at the end of every line while you stomp". In this reposted example, I've added that "ba ba boom" phrase to the end of every line. I've also rewritten Joi's entry in a poetry format instead of the essay format in which it was sent.

**

"Yo Mama" taunts are associated with the African American oral folk cultural tradition called "The Dozens" {snappin', crackin, dissin and other terms}. Click here for a wikipedia article on The Dozens.

Also, there are a number of Yo Mama {Your Mama} children's taunts on that Cocojams page whose link has been provided.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 11:50 AM

I should clarify that-notwithstanding its use of the "Yo Mama" phrase-I believe that the structure and ending rhyming words of "Your [Yo] Mama Don't Wear No Drawers" fits the style of an open ended handclap rhyme or jumprope rhyme more than the one line
"Yo Mama" taunts.

As a means of comparison, here are four {at least in my opinion witty and humorous} "Yo Mama" one liners that same Cocojams page:

Yo Mama's so fat when she wore a yellow rain coat, people called out "TAXI!!" to her.
-Sandra; 6/26/2006; www.cocojams.com

**

yo mama so dumb it took her 2 hours to watch 60 minutes.
--Charlotte; 9/2/2007; www.cocojams.com

**

Your Momma So Poor
Your momma so poor that when i went in your house and stepped on a cigarrette she said ohhhhhhhhhh its cold in here who shut off the heat
-Markine P. ; 4/18/2006 ; www.cocojams.com

**

Yo moma's so stupid i put a paper on the tv and asked her what she was watching and she said paperview.
-Some Body; 10/15/2006 ; www.cocojams.com

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:06 PM

Skunk in the barnyard
Pee-Yew!
Who passed gas?
It was you!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Gogo
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:19 AM

Here's a couple that I learned from my big sister growing up in New England during the 60's:


A double jump-rope song:

Not last night, but the night before
24 robbers came knocking at my door
as I ran out - they ran in (1st jumper hops out, 2nd jumps in)
and hit me over the head with a rolling pin

It hurt, it hurt, it hurt so bad
I asked them what they wanted and this is what they said:
(jumper performs the following directions)
Spanish Dancer, turn a-round
Spanish Dancer, touch the ground
Spanish Dancer, do the splits
Spanish Dancer, give a high kick


And this was just a ryhme we all loved:

One bright day in the middle of the night
Two dead boys got up to fight
They turned back-to-back and faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other
A deaf police man heard the noise
And came and shot the two dead boys
If you don't believe this lie, it's true
Go ask the blind man - he saw it too!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:44 PM

I haven't read through this whole thread, so I apologize if I'm repeating things.

Evanston, Illinois in the 1960s and possibly into the 1970s:

Lincoln, Lincoln I've been thinkin'
What the heck have you been drinkin'?
Looks like water, tastes like wine,
Oh, my gosh, it's turpentine!

Liar, liar pants on fire!

I see London, I see France
I see underpants!

and
Sitting in a tree
K - i - s - s - i - n - g
First comes love, then comes marriage
Then comes in a baby carriage.

Eenie, meenie, minie, mo
Catch a tiger by the toe
If he hollers let him go
Eenie, meenie, minie, mo.
My mother told me to pick the very best one and that is YOU!

Jingle bells, Batman smells
Robin laid an egg.
(Can't remember the rest.)

Milk, milk, lemonade
Around the corner fudge is made.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:46 PM

Sorry, it seems where I used angle braces to indicate names, that they have disappeared. It's probably pretty clear where they belong, though.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Keith H. From Rochester NY
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 01:51 AM

I learned this rhyme as a kid growing up in Rochester NY in the early 1970s. This rhyme is similar to the McDonalds rhyme above posted in April 2007.

McDonalds is your kind of place
They Serve you rattle snakes
On dirty paper plates
There is no parking place
They shove french fries up your nose
and pickles between your toes
Mcdonalds is your kind of place!

Another rhyme I learned dealt with Batman:
Jingle Bells
Batman smells
Robin laid an egg
Batmobile lost a wheel
Commisioner lost his head !

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Bonnie
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 03:11 PM

My son just finished up 1rst grade and at Quarles Elementary in Winchester, VA, he learned:
first, second, third,
elementary nerd.

i don't know if there is more or not, but i think its a chosing one.

I used to say, chitty chitty bang bang sitting on a fence, trying to make a dollar out of 15 cents, that was in the early 80's in Baltimore County.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Deana Ashley :)
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 03:14 PM

Miss Mary Mack
"Miss mary mack mack mack
all dressed in black black black
with silver buttons buttons buttons
all down her back back back
she asked her dad dad dad
for 25 cents cents cents
to see an elephant elephant elephant
jump over the fence fence fence
he jumped so high high high
he reached the sky sky sky
and didnt come back back back
till the fourth of july -ly -ly"

"Eenie Meanie Cessalini"
Eenie Meanie Cessalini
Ya Ya Tumbalini
Etchi Ketchi Liberetchi
I love you.

Heard about your boyfriend lsat night.
How'd you know?
Peeked through a keyhole-nosy
Didnt do you homework-lazy
Jumped through a window-now you know im crazy
thats why they call me...

Eenie Meanie Cessalini
Ya Ya Tumbalini
Etchi Ketchi Liberetchi
I love you."

"Cici my playmate"
Cici my playmate
come out and play with me
Bring your dollies three
climb up my apple tree
slide down the rainbow
into the cellar door
and we'll be jolly friends
for ever more more more"

"Miss Susie"
Miss susie had a steamboat
the steamboat had a bell
miss susie went to heaven
the steamboat went to...
hello operator
please give me number nine
and if you disconnect me
ill chop off your...
behind the fridgerator
there was a peice of glass
miss susie sat upon it
and broke her little...
ask me no more questions
and tell me no more lies
the boys are in the bathroom
zipping up their...
flies are in the meadow
and bees are in the park
miss susie and her boyfriend
are kissing in the...
D-A-R-K, D-A-R-K, DARK! DARK! DARK!
the dark is like the movies
the movie's like a show
a show is like tv
and that is all i know
i know my ma
i know i know my pa
i know i know my sister
with a 48 acre bra bra bra!"

"Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka"
Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka
was her name
she had two hairs on top of her head
one was black and the other was red
Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka
was her name.
she had to holes in the middle of her nose
one was open and the other was closed
Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka
was her name.
she had two eyes which were quite a sight
one looked left and the other looked right
Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka
was her name.
she had two teeth in the middle of her mouth
one pointed north and the other pointed south
Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka
was her name.
she had two feet as flat as mat
everybody asked how they got like that
Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka
was her name.
a big huge bus ran over magdelina..
poor old fella had to buy a new machina
Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka
was her name."

"Down by the river"
Down by the river with the hank to pank
where the bullfrog jumped from bank to bank
saying eeps ipes opes oops
chilly willy ding dong
i pledge allegiance to the flag
michael jackson sings so bad
coca cola roots me up
now we're talkin 7Up
7Up has no caffine
now we're talkin billy gene
billy gene whent outta sight
now we're talkin bobby white
bobby white went out of town
riding on a rocket
stuck a feather in his hat
and called it hershey's chocolate"

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 05:09 PM

Guest, Deana Ashley, thank you for sharing those examples of children's rhymes.

I've been working on a project of collecting versions of various rhymes and trying to find early examples & sources for those rhymes. And I admit that I've been slacking on that project. However, the examples that you shared {whose versions I've not seen exactly that way}-particularly "Down by the river"; "Eenie Meanie Cessalini"; "Magdelina Hagdelina Ooka talk walka talk ohka mohka poka" helped to get me over that "editor's slump" {which I guess is similar to "writer's slump"}.

I very much appreciate that.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 05:35 PM

Silence in the gallery
Silence in the court
The biggest monkey in the world
is just about to talk!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 05:41 PM

I've got a secret I won't tell
I was born in a winkle's shell
The winkle's shell was made of glass
So I went rolling on my
Ask no questions, tell no lies
Have you ever met a chinaman doing up his
Flies are a nuisance bugs are worse
That is the end of my silly verse

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:10 PM

Engine,engine number 9 going down Chicago line if the train falls off the track, do you want your money back? yes or no spell it and you are or are not it/

Inka dinka bottle of ink cough alot and your stink not because you are dirty not because you are clean just because you kissed the girl behing the magizine. (person picke is or is not it)

These are from Brookl;y, NY 1960's

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,abbey the golfer
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:22 PM

We used to do clapping games when we were kids, this is one of the first ones I remember - it was in 1967 that I learned it and I remember thinking that we couldn't play it after the next year!

Oh the girls in France
do the underpanty dance
and the dance they do
is enough to kill a shrew
when the shrew is dead
they put flowers in its head
when the flowers dry
there are diamonds in the sky
when the diamonds fall
they throw up a glass ball
when the glass ball breaks
it is 1968!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,lol
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 10:48 AM

Oh the girls in France
do the underpanty dance
and the dance they do
is enough to kill a shrew
when the shrew is dead
they put flowers in its head
when the flowers dry
there are diamonds in the sky
when the diamonds fall
they throw up a glass ball
when the glass ball breaks
it is 1968!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Anje
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 06:44 PM

Tramp tramp tramp
the fleas are marching!
Cheer up comrade
I've got one
Underneath my fingernail
I will pinch his little tail
'Til he promises
no further harm is done.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Anje
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 06:49 PM

Only remember a little of this:

Order in the court
The judge is eating beans.
His wife is in the bathtub (bathroom?)
sinking submarines

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Anje
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 07:03 PM

Found a peanut
found a peanut
found a peanut just now
just now I found a peanut
found a peanut just now.
It was rotten
it was rotten
it was rotten just now
just now it was rotten
it was rotten just now.
Ate it anyway
ate it anyway
ate it any way just now
just now I ate it anyway
ate it anyway just now.
Got a tummy ache
got a tummy ache
got a tummy ache just now
just now I got a tummy ache
got a tummy ache just now.
Called the doctor
called the doctor
called the doctor just now
just now I called the doctor
called the doctor just now.
Died anyway
died anyway
died anyway just now
just now I died anyway
died anyway just now.
Went to heaven
went to heaven
went to heaven just now
just now I went to heaven
went to heaven just now.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Tom Jenkins (UK)
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 08:18 AM

Silence in the Courtyard,
Silence in the street
The biggest fool in [town name]
Is just about to speak

(Often closed with 'Starting froooooom... NOW!')

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 09:57 AM

Thanks to all who have added examples to this thread.

It's good to see so many different versions of specific rhymes such as "Silence In the Court" which I remember as "Order In The Court" from my childhood in New Jersey in the 1950s.

And special thanks to those who remember to include demographical information with your example/s, particularly where you learned it (city, state if in the USA and city, nation outside of the USA) and when you learned it (year or decade). Including the type of playground rhyme such as whether it is a choosing "It" rhyme or a handclap rhyme would also be great as would be information about how it is played.

Also, remember to visit other children's rhymes threads that are hyperlinked at the top of this page. And why not consider joining this forum? Membership is free and easy to do. See the Membership feature near the top right hand corner of this page.

Thanks again!!

Ms. Azizi

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Anje
Date: 09 Mar 09 - 01:04 AM

My bonnie lies over the ocean
My bonnie lies over the sea
My father lies over my mother
That's how I came to be

-------------------------

It's raining
It's pouring
The old man
is snoring

He cracked his head
and he went to bed
and he couldn't
get up in the morning

Rain, rain go away
Come again another day

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Kathryn
Date: 14 May 09 - 11:24 AM

I grew up in a suburb of Los Angeles and learned this rhyme in the early 1970s:

Eenie meenie pepsadenie
Ah ba bubalini
Achta katcha liberatcha I pick you
Have a peach
Have a plum
Have a stick of chewing gum
If you want another one, this is what you say
Amen Amen Amendiego San Diego
Hocus pocus dominocus
Yea Monkees!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,girl in black
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 05:10 AM

all of thease poems are crap thank you very much but one is sailor!:)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Lizzy
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:17 PM

"Oh the girls in france they don't wear no underpants
There's a hole in the wall if you look you'll see it all."

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,cea
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 12:25 PM

here coms the bride all fat and wide give her a piece of alastic to keep her knickers tied. ta-da

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 12:33 PM

I need to know before posting a few from Hardi's childhood in a changing neighborhood-- what does the thread originator want me to do with the offensive words?

Please PM reply and then I'll implement here.

~Susan

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 11:49 PM

mailman mailman do your duty
here comes mrs american beauty
she can do the pom pom[pom pom]
she can do the splits [do it a lttle]
best of all she can blow u a kiss[blow a fake kiss]
K-I-S-S[Do split on each letter and do it over 'till split is finished]

ENJOY!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,GUEST JennaH
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 09:44 PM

My sister taught me this:

Wait, come back, you need a tic-tac!
Not a tic, not a tac, you need the whole pack!
Red, green, yellow, white, man what did you eat last night?

One version of "shame" I've heard:

Shame shame shame
I don't want to go to Mexico no more, more, more
There's a big fat policeman at the door, door, door
If he grabs you by the collar
Girl, you better holler
I don't want to go to Mexico no more, more, more SHAME!

We sang this on the bus, as well as many more songs:

Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream
Throw your teacher overboard and listen to her scream
Five days later, floating down the Delaware
Lost a pair of underwear, couldn't find another pair
Ten days later, eaten by a polar bear
That's how the polar bear died

Learned all these in early 90's, white and black kids both, in Virginia.

My mom taught me these she used to say from when she was a kid (Colorado or California, early 70's)

Left, left, left right left
I left my wife and forty-nine kids on the brink of starvation
With nothing but gingerbread left, left, left right left

I hate you I hate you I hate you
And besides, your mother dresses you funny (stick out your tongue)

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: moonfan
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 10:06 PM

re: children's rhymes.

The moon is the North Wind's cookie.
He bites it day by day,
Until there's but a rim of scraps
That crumble all away.
The South Wind is a baker.
He kneads clouds in his den.
And bakes a crisp new moon that – greedy
North Wind –eats – again.

I grew up with the north wind's cookie but never heard it in song, only in the gentle cadence of my daddy's voice. Daddy sat with me on the back porch stairs and when that huge orange moon, with the crispy brown edges, began to rise above the horizon of our farm, he would point at it and tell me its story. I'm in my fifties, and now when I point out that that's a north wind's cookie, I get weird looks and a lot of WTF are you talking about. It's really sad that today's youth don't have a clue about the joy in a young child's heart from my era of awe and daddy taught beliefs.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: moonfan
Date: 29 Jan 10 - 10:16 PM

after reading back, it appears i'm on the wrong mind link. i was under the impression that this was a genuine children's rhymes site. if all the profane, discusting stuff i've read on here is a sample of today's youth, count me out.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Uly
Date: 30 Jan 10 - 11:37 AM

Well, it's not. Most of it, in fact, is a sample of what genuine children were saying 20, 30, or 40 years ago... not what they learned from grown-ups.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,susan
Date: 19 Jul 10 - 11:04 PM

I remember parts of this song:

The spades go two lips together
tie them together
bring back my love to me.

What is the me-ee-eening
of all these flow-er-er-ers
they tel the sto-or-or-y,
the story of love,
from me to you.

I saw the ship sail away,
it sailed three years and a day,
my love is far far away,
and I love him so, oh yes I do.

My heart goes bump ba de dump bump,
bump ba de dump bump,
over my love for you.

You are my one and only,
I love you passionately,
..........


I never thought about the meaning of these lyrics when I was young. Now when I search to find the lyrics I see posts referring to them as racist. I wonder though whether this was a song by black people about slaves being sold and separated. Does anyone know the rest of the lyrics and/or know the origin of this song?

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Patsy Warren
Date: 20 Jul 10 - 07:43 AM

This was a way to get us to eat our prunes by counting the stones after by counting each stone to these rhymes:-

Lady, baby, gypsy, queen,
Elephant, monkey, tangerine.

Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor,
Rich man, poor man, beggar man, thief.

This was a skipping game. Girls one side boys on the other.

Down in the valley where the green grass grows,
There goes Sarah(girl's name)as fair as a rose,
She grows, she grows, she grows so sweet,
That she calls for a lover at the end of the street.
(Boy runs in) Michael(whatever the boy's name is) Michael, coming out tonight,
Michael, Michael the moon is shining bright,
Put your hat and coat on tell your mother you won't be late,
How many kisses can I get.
Skipping rope is turned faster counting how many skips can be done.

If there was an election looming we had a skipping song how long ago this goes back I am not sure but in the 60's in England it was:-

Skipper runs into skipping rope)
Vote vote vote vote for Harold here comes Teddy at the door (Edward Heath. For Harold is the one who gives us all the fun,
So we don't want Teddy anymore, shut the door (skipper runs out).

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymesloo
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 01:24 PM

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,GUEST, Jennifer Martin
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 12:32 AM

When I was growing up in Chicago in a primarily African-American neighborhood in the mid 70s (This was probably 1976-1978) we used to do a song where a small group of us would stand in a circle and take turns doing little dance solos with different body parts, for example if Jane, Susan and Mary were in the circle we would all sing:

"Jane's got the rhythm, rhythm in her arms" and while Jane would move her arms around we'd all sing "Umm, check it out, umm-umm check it out", then "Susan's got the rhythm, rhythm in her hips" and Susan would swivel her hips around while we all sang "Umm, check it out, umm-umm check it out" and on and on with each kid doing a different body part (head, legs, butt, waist, etc.) we all agreed in advance who would do each body part before we all started singing.

It's 35 years later and I still get that song stuck in my head sometimes and nobody here in California seems to have ever heard it...

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 10:26 AM

Greetings, Jennifer Martin.

I rarely post on this forum anymore, but I want to share with you (and others) that my guess is that the game song that you remember is a pre-foot stomping cheer. Your entire description of how you remember "Check it Out" being performed conforms with the description of foot stomping cheers, except that you didn't describe the girls doing any percussive steppin' like foot stomping routines while they chanted those words (in between watching the "soloists doing their dance).Furthermore, I've collected other examples of foot stomping cheers that include the line "check it out". But that's not surprising since "check it out" was and still is a rather commonly used African American verncaular phrase.

"Foot stomping cheers" is a term that I coined for a certain type of composition that has a distinctive lyrical structure & performance activity. I consider foot stomping cheers to be a sub-category of children's/youth's dance style cheerleader cheers. I also consider those cheers to be a part of both the larger category of children's singing games, and the larger category of raps (in the pre-hip-hop sense of that word).

Traditionally (that is since 1976 when these cheers are first documented), foot stomping cheers are performed as an informal, leisure time activity, mostly by girls ages 6-12 years old.

Your example further confirms the documentation of these cheers originating with and being most often performed by African American girls. That said, the 2006 cheerleader movie Bring It On: All Or Nothing introduced much of the world to two examples of foot stomping cheers: "Shabooya Roll Call" and "Introduce Yourself".*

* It should be noted that the same textual structure and refrain found in the 2006 Bring It On movie was also used in Spike Lee's 1996 movie Get On The Bus. Also, in 1997 I collected an example of "Introduce Yourself" that is very similar to that used in that Bring It On movie, and I collected an earlier mid to late 1980s example of that same cheer, though with different words than that used in the 1990s example.

Click http://cocojams.com/content/foot-stomping-cheers-0 for more information on foot stomping cheers and for additional links to other related subjects.

Best wishes,

Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,dingles
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 01:49 PM

for hotdog / weiner roasts we always sang (when no parents were listening);

Daddy's got the weiner
Mommy's got the bun
Baby's got the ketchup
Yum! Yum! Yum!

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,kenny boy
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 09:36 PM

Growing up in Central California in the 1950s, My Mom & Dad would say at the dinner table:

Order in the court.
The monkey wants to speak.
Speak monkey speak.
The first one to speak is a monkey.

It made us all shut up for up to minutes at a time.
In the 1980s it worked just as well on my kids.

I was surprised to find so many variations of it on this thread.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 12:03 AM

Ask your mother for 50 cents, come see the 3 ringed zebra... two around his belly, one around his... hold up there ladies, don't step in that elephants... shame on you little boy for sticking straw up that monkeys... ask your mother for 50 cents...

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,My version
Date: 17 Oct 18 - 01:07 PM

My mother recited your postman poem to me as a child growing up in the 70’s, but it went a little differently.

Policeman, policeman
Do your duty,
Here comes Charlotte
As a bathing beauty

She can do the rumba
She can do the splits
She can lift her skirts
As high as her hips.

Here’s another she’d often recite

Charlotte was a dancer,
She danced for the king;
And every time she danced,
She wiggled everything.

Stop! Cried the king,
You can’t do that in here!
Phooey, said Charlotte,
And she kicked him in the rear.

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: GUEST,Betty Jo
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 06:40 PM

Sixteen years later, I'd like to thank Haven for the post:
"What you say is what you are, You're a naked movie star".

When my little brother & I were too young to cross the street by ourselves, we used to sit on the curb with our feet in the gutter exchanging taunts with the military kids from Air Force officer housing across the street.

One taunt we liked to use was "What you say is what you are, like a moving poo-poo star."

It never made any sense, but apparently we had picked up a kid version of the original. We learned it in the mid-1950s on the Mississippi Gulf Coast.

(Our beef with the officer kids was their habit of saying "Well, my daddy is a colonel so...")

Also the "Suffocation" song was a parody of a TV commercial for a game called "Fascination".

Subject: RE: I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes
From: medievallassie
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 02:33 AM

Liar, Liar, pants on fire! I tried to go through the thread to see if this one was listed and didn't see it...but this is a LOOOONG thread! I might have missed it.

A lot of the monkey rhymes were already mentioned but this is one that I recall:

Good morning to you,
Good morning to you,
You smell like a monkey,
and you look like one, too!

I think I can relate to that last one... :-)