Does anyone here actually want chords?

Subject: Folklore: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: chico
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 09:15 PM

I've been posting chords for awhile and noticed nobody else seems to be , or even requesting chords. I dont get why this is mostly based on lyrics, when I think chords & lyrics would be more useful. ?????


Does ANYONE in here actually use guitar chords? Or want them? Or do people just want the lyrics to a song for them read it acapella at a poetry reading? I assume most folk players have a string instrument/piano and chords are crucial to playing folk. Why then I am the only one here?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 09:28 PM

We DO want them-- we just don't usually want them till we need them. Rest assured, when I come to the 'Cat to look up a song I want to do, I am always thrilled to find at least a start on chords before I adjust the arrangement to suit me!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Folklore: Does anyone here actually want chord
From: harpgirl
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 09:39 PM

Oh yes, chico. Keep posting them. I find it very helpful. You are just being more throrough than most.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:10 PM

As I've mentioned before, suggested guitar chords are useless unless people know what the tune is. If you want to be helpful, please post the tunes with the words!

By all means add suggested chords for those who feel they need an accompaniment and can't work out their own. That's of secondary importance, though.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:25 PM

yes - people want chords - but as Malcolm said - the melody is even more crucial if people don't already know the song.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:32 PM

Except of course for people like me who can't read a note of music but carry the melody around in our heads. As for me, when I post a stack of lyrics some when has requested I always post chords if I know them or if I can find them.

Very often I will direct people to a site that has the lyrics and the chords and then, secondarily, the polywogs on the strings that I understand can be used to indicate a melody to those so trained as to read them.

Yes, post chords, always if you can.

Don

Subject: RE: Folklore: Does anyone here actually want chord
From: GUEST,G
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:45 PM

Yes, Lyrics are nice. Lyrics & chords are nicer. Lyrics, chords & melody is better.

I usually do not desire the chords for a song that I do not know the melody to, so if I am looking for song chords, I do not need the melody, I need the chords!

Thanks to all who have contributed lyrics, chords, melody or whatever to this place. Keep'em comin'!

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:12 PM

I'mn glad to post MIDI files for songs. Just send them to me as an e-mail attachment, and I'll do the rest.

As with lyrics, it really helps if you tell us where you got the tune from. Lyrics and tunes with attributed sources are much more valuable than unidentified ones.

Oh, and if you're posting chords to a song, it's best if you can find adn post to an existing thread with lyrics and other information on the song - I think you've been doing that pretty well, Chico. There's no need to start a new, separate thread for posting chords to a song unless there's no existing thread.

It's really nice if you put ADD Chords: nameofsong in the message title. If you forget, the Clones or I will change the title appropriately. No need to tell us about it - we'll catch it sooner or later.

-Joe Offer-
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:56 PM

Fer me, it is always the chune I lack. If I know the tune I usually can work up the chords. Rough, but adequate.


A

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:26 AM

People ask for chords relatively often. I always post chords to older pop songs (older stuff I know, not this new stuff) jazz standards, Bossa Novas, pop/folk and other stuff that has modern "Arranged" sort of chords that people might not easily pick out by ear--generallyI work from the charts that I used to use when I played--though I have been known to work out chords for stuff, as well--I don't typically post chords that I haven't played, because so much of the stuff that is out there floating around on the web is wrong or at least not quite right--I also do a tidy little business in correcting and smoothing out chords that others have posted--

Often, with more traditional stuff, there are many different ways that the melodies can be chorded, and people are looking for the chords that are used in a particular recording--I generally leave that to folks who know what is wanted better than I do--

Anyway, you are not the only one--there are lots and lots of tunes that have been posted with chords amongst the threads over the last many years, you just have to delve a bit--

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:36 AM

Hey Chico - do you have the chords for the Beatles' When I'm Sixty Four?
I've gotta do it for a wedding.
Thnks for the assistance.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:13 AM

Chico, if I have a song to post and have the chords, will do so.
Though, as Malcolm pointed out, not much use without the melody.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Mudlark
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:40 AM

Chico...thanks for your diligence. Chords always appreciated, particularly if they fall outside the folky 1-4-5 thingy.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Matt_R
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:43 AM

SEAMUS!

Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: WHEN I'M SIXTY-FOUR (Lennon/McCart
From: chico
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 03:51 AM

  G                                                 D
  When I get older, losing my hair, many years from now,
                                                                G
  will you still be senting me a Valentine, birthday greetings, bottle 
                                                    G
  of wine?  If I'd been out 'till quarter to three, would you lock the 
  C                     Em       G              Em       A
  door?  Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when
      D     G
  I'm sixty four?
  
  G                                                       D
  I could be handy, mending a fuse, when your lights have gone.
                                                           G
  You can knit a sweater by the fireside, sunday mornings, go for a 
                                             G                 C
  ride. Doing the garden, digging the weeds, who could ask for more?
                 Em       G              Em       A        D     G
  Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm sixty four?
  
  G                                                   D
  Send me a postcard, drop me a line stating point of view.
                                                           G
  Indicate precisely what you mean to say, yours sincerely wasting away.
                                       G            C
  Give me your answer, fill in a form, mine forever more.
                 Em       G              Em       A        D     G
  Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm sixty four?
  
  
  * * *
  
  OR
  
  G]When I get older, losing my hair, many years from [D7]now,
  will you still be senting me a Valentine, birthday greetings, [G]bottle of wine?
  If I'd been out 'till quarter to three, [G7]would you lock the [C]door?
  Will you still [Eb7]need me, [G]will you still [E7]feed me, [A7]when
  I'm [D7]sixty-[G]four?
  
  {soc}
  [Em]Hmm------[D]mmm------[Em]mmmh.
  [Em]You'll be older, [B7]too. 
  [Em]Aaah, and if you [Am]say the word, [C]I could [D7]stay with [G]you.
  {eoc}
  
  I could be handy, mending a fuse, when your lights have gone.
  You can knit a sweater by the fireside, sunday mornings, go for a ride.
  Doing the garden, digging the weeds, who could ask for more?
  Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm sixty four?
  
  {soc}
  Every summer we can rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight if it's not to dear. 
  We shall scrimp and save.
  Ah, grandchildren on your knee, Vera, Chuck, and Dave.
  {eoc}
  
  Send me a postcard, drop me a line stating point of view.
  Indicate precisely what you mean to say, yours sincerely wasting away.
  Give me your answer, fill in a form, mine forever more.
  Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm sixty four?
  
  

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Stu
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:41 AM

Post away Chico!

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:48 AM

McCartney wrote when I'm 64 when he was 14!! Smart arse!

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:50 AM

Isn't he 64 or thereabouts now?

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: pavane
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 05:25 AM

At the risk of repetition, may I note once again that I have two programs which can help with chords (but only if you use Windows)

1. If you already have the tune, in abc or MIDI (Melody only) format, my program HARMONY can usually provide suitable chords, and it does understand Modal tunes.

2. If you already have a MIDI file of the complete arrangement, probably from one of the many MIDI sites, you can use my program Find Midi Chords, which will tell you what chords are being played within the file. These are not calculated at each instant like some sequencers, which show lots of strange chords, but averaged across a bar or part of bar, and can optionally be shown simplified.

You can download fully operational trial versions from my web site
http://www.greenhedges.com

(Many 'catters are users)

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:07 AM

I assume most folk players have a string instrument/piano and chords are crucial to playing folk.

Your assumption may be correct for the folk circles that you move in, for whom I am sure the prescribed chords are exceedingly useful, but there are other areas of traditional music where no instrumental accompaniment is used or wished for.

Many songs which came into being to be sung by the unaccompanied voice would be straitjacketed by the addition of chords as the melody does not fit into standard harmonies.

There are also people who like to work out their own chords to a melody. So you can see, it is not a straight choice between using chords posted here, and recitation!

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:33 AM

Noreen is possessed of a beautiful voice, excellent keyboard skills and a fine ear for picking up a melody/harmony, so she's both sides of the fence, Chico.

My perspective on this is from the tunesmith side. When I go trawling JC's Tunefinder, I always look for the " prefix, which indicates a Midi file with chordal accompaniment, as I read music very slowly, and pick up the whole package by ear, often as not. The tunes without chordal accompaniment can be 'arranged', but when I do that and play that tune in a session, I invariably find I have 'arranged' the chords incorrectly, or rather not as they are known in the public domain.

So yes, chords always add. Keep it up mate!

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:41 AM

I used to want chords very badly. Then I reached a point where I knew most of the chords I wanted.

Now I want women.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 08:52 AM

I know where you're coming from, chico.

I have posted music on the Mudcat, and the response has been disappointing. The number of people who want to play a song seems to be much smaller than the number of people who want to argue about its origins.

Note to others: if you someone posts a song on the Mudcat and you save it for your repertoire, add a post thanking the person and mention that you will be playing the piece. That will keep the contributions coming.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: PoohBear
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 10:53 AM

I always appreciate chords. I don't know many of them and must resort to a chord chart if it's more than a basic. I learned to play by reading music - not by ear - so I like having the chords in front of me. At least then I know I have the right starting point.
PB

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 10:59 AM

Good idea, leenia. I often do just that by posting my version, after I edit the text and simplify the arrangement.

~S~

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: RichM
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 11:05 AM

Stick to chords, Little Hawk. Easier to play.

( I was going to say, easier to finger, but that's rude )

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 11:15 AM

Malcolm Douglas said, inter alia:

As I've mentioned before, suggested guitar chords are useless unless people know what the tune is. If you want to be helpful, please post the tunes with the words!

As so often happens, I'm the odd man out, and I blush not to say so.

I'm a solo act (most of the time), and if I can't get hold of the original tune (or sometimes if I don't like the original) I feel quite free to supply my own tune to a text which has none. Having a set of chords is sometimes a fine start toward working up my own tune in those circumstances.

There are people who will disapprove of this, I suppose. If I were doing this with a commercial song, I think some would say that one shouldn't do it for copyright reasons. But I sing mostly folk and folk-type songs, and the tunes of those vary in the normal course of things. I'm just as entitled to change or entirely rewrite the tune of a traditional song as somebody's great-great-grandfather was. And frankly, in some cases where I've provided a missing tune and later heard what was traditional I've been of the opinion that mine was better. That of course may be mere pride of authorship.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Louie Roy
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:19 PM

I play back-up guitar for many different fiddlers and vocalists and other instruments such as banjo mandolin guitar mouth harp most often you can hear the chords long before it's time to change,but there are some songs that you have to work out the chords with another person before attempting to back up the tune.I'll just name a couple of tunes you can fake but the proper chords is what makes the tune beautiful-1--Let me call you sweetheart--2--Shanty in old shanty town--3--Up the lazy river--4--Somewhere my love.There are many others of course,but any one of these 4 will tax your ear especially when you don't know one note of music and play strictly by ear.I've been backing up musicians for over 70 years and enjoy every minute of it.Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:27 PM

Just because not everyone wants chords, or wants your version of the chords, or even wants accompaniment at all, is no reason to quit posting chords. Some people ~ in the future if not right away ~ will put them to use, even if they don't stop to express their appreciation.

Like Malcolm Douglas said very early in this thread, chords are not really helpful to someone who does not know the tune (with the exception of Uncle Dave-O, whose creative approach is pretty interesting) ~ and for many of us, if we know the tune we can usually come up with a basic three-chord arrangment.

But then again, as M.Ted pointed out, there are harmonically complex songs where the (non-standard) chord progresions would be very tricky to figure out and where a set of chords is much more helpful and more necessary than for the average folksong.

Speaking for myself, I don't "need" chords for all the songs whose complete lyrics I might need to look up. When I'm trying to come up with a way to play a given song, and can't come up with a satisfactory arrangement on my own, I'm more likely to search for tablature than for chords ~ either to follow exactly or to adapt. I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here ~ the mere mention of "tabs" seems to be a controversial topic, at least among some of us. I think we all agree, however, that much of the tablature found on the internet is of, shall we say, suspect quality.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Biskit
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 12:57 PM

Thanks Chico!
I've always loved that song, maybe it'll be inspiration enough to get me playing again.
Biskit

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:38 PM

Yes, post 'em. And if there are "odd" chords or particular voicings that you use, spell it out in an addendum after the lyrics.

Sometimes folks will see a song with a buncha chords they don't know and, even though they might like the song, they just don't wanna go through the trouble of looking up the chord diagrams. If you tell them that the E9 chord in the second bar is fingered X76777 instead of making them dig out their "Mel Bay's Zillion-and-One Guitar Chords" you've greatly improved the chances that the information you've provided will actually be used.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Grab
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 01:41 PM

Generally if you want chords to a pop/rock song, a search on Google or somewhere similar (TabRobot works well) will find them. Self-help is easiest (and incidentally, there are uncountably many web-pages with "When I'm 64" lyrics and chords! ;-) Of course, if you've found something that no-one else seems to have put on the web, post it on the Cat, and consider submitting it to some of the more popular tab/chord/lyrics sites.

Chords for a trad folk tune are another matter - mostly they're down to personal interpretation of what fits the tune. So listen to it and work out how you want to play it.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:01 PM

Chico - You Da Man!
Thank you.
I'll have a happy bride and groom on my hands now.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:09 PM

Matt R - sometimes some of us old fogeys who never learned any Beatles stuff need a little help from our friends.
Ooohh, there's a song in there somewhere....
Thanks again, Chico.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: GUEST,Cattail (No cookie)
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:23 PM

YES! Chords please.

Although I can work them out for myself, (sometimes), I do find it
an immense help to have the chording there, if only to reassure myself
that I am correct.

In addition to the above, I may well not have continued trying to
play without people like yourself providing chords to the songs I
know and like, and giving me the incentive to try to play them.

Thanks for all your hard work, it's much appreciated.

Cheers

Cattail !

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: radriano
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:12 PM

"Or do people just want the lyrics to a song for them [to] read it acapella at a poetry reading?"

Chords are fine if that's what you want. Ever heard of a cappella singing, Chico?

At the risk of starting what I'm sure has been discussed here before, the term "folk music" is too general. Some folk music gatherings I've been at had everyone playing their own guitar (or banjo, or mandolin, etc.) And, as someone else here has pointed out, there can be more than one set of chords to a given song. Some gatherings have everyone with the Rise Up Singing book and insisting that a song be played in the key written in the book.

So, by all means, give the chords for a song but don't expect others to want or need to do things your way. I just say this because you sound kind of frantic.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 09:45 PM

I think Chico is suffering from the despair that comes from opening a thread with a plaintive"NEED CHORDS DESPERATELY TO" with a story about a wanting to serenade a dying aunt on her birthday or some such, and scrambling to get the chords together in time, posting them, and never getting any acknowledgement at all--

As to your comment Grab, I can only repeat--there may be lots of chords out there for lots of pop stuff, but whether they actually work is another question entirely. You can generally work out chords to folk and traditional tunes by ear with little trouble, unless you are trying to recreate someone elses arrangement, or if the tune is Albanian.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 11:11 PM

Yeah post them.

But anything prior to 1950 - the rest is available.

TUNES ... as Mr. Malcolm Douglas notes are FAR more important. Outside of jazz - most anyone but an idjet - can workout the chords if they are given the melody.

Given ONLY chords - most songs share them.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 11:20 PM

Chico - most of your stuff looks like a "promo" for you webpage.

Trying to churn some numbers?

However, one of your earliest postings I was not a Nazi Polka is wonderful - and well done - just now tried it on the keyboard - brillant fun. HOWEVER, if I did not already know (have heard/sung it several times) the Melody.....all would be lost.

POST THE CHORDS - This is not a "literary society."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

PLEASE continue to post - what you are sharing is better than 99.5% of the clap-trap the MC has turned into.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 01:48 AM

Gargoyle ~ when you say something nice, why do you have to put it in that tiny damn four-point type?

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Nick
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:24 AM

This is not meant to be flippant but -

What is the drive to sing a song that you don't know the tune to?

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:54 AM

"chords amongst the threads"

TTO: "silver threads amongs the gold"

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Grab
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:02 AM

Too right MTed, there's a lot of stuff posted by people who can't tell their A7 from a hole in the ground, as it were. But there's still lots of them out there, and a general scan of the different versions will usually find something that works for most pop songs.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:14 AM

What is the drive to sing a song that you don't know the tune to?

Presumably because someone likes the words and feel they deserve to be sung, but doesn't know the tune, or even if there is a tune. That's the way we get a lot of great songs, such as Home Lads Home, Deportees, or Peter Bellamy's Kipling material.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 08:23 AM

I'll second that, McG! There are a lot of lyrics posted that "grab" me - but I haven't the foggiest clue of a tune - nor do I have the talent to make one up, except on very rare occasions.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 09:14 AM

The other HUGE contribution Chico makes is that he takes the trouble to post his arrangements formatted so that the chords actually appear in the correct position over the words where the chords change-- which means you can print his version AS IS and put it in a binder. You can make a songbook right out of his posts.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 10:15 AM

Gargoyle ~ when you say something nice, why do you have to put it in that tiny damn four-point type?

PoppaGator, at least it wasn't yellow :-)

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 02:17 PM

I thought I posted to this thread already.

Chords are useful and helpful. Please keep doing it.

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: JudyB
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 04:48 PM

I don't really think I'm an "idjet" but I can't always see (or hear) the chord even though I have the melody in front of me. I can read music, which is a bit of a disincentive to learning to play by ear - and looking things up is in my nature - I dig out the book to program the VCR, too.

And I find that sometimes strumming the chords while reading lyrics out loud gives me a sense of what the mood of the song might be - which might encourage me to look for the tune somewhere if it seems interesting enough to learn.

So my vote is "yes" - please do continue to include the chords!

Thanks,
JudyB

Subject: RE: Does anyone here actually want chords?
From: belfast
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 06:07 AM

I don't want to be too pedantic . . .but I'm going to be anyway. The chords given for 'When I'm 64' are questionable. For example, you might prefer this -

If(G) I'd been out 'till quarter to three, would(G7) you lock the
door(C)? Will you still need(Eflat7) me, will(G) you still feed (E7)me,
when(A7) I'm six(D7)ty four(G)?