UK Licensing Act already in court.

Subject: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:13 PM

From Hamish Birchall

The outcome of a judicial review of the new Licensing Act could have important implications for live music in bars and restaurants.

The review was initiated in April by the British Beer and Pub Association (BBPA), the British Institute of Innkeepers (BII) and the Association of Licensed Multiple Retailers (ALMR). They are challenging key elements of Canterbury City Council's licensing policy. A judgment is expected in the next two weeks, although it could in theory be delayed until 29 July.

It is believed that the council's position is that it is entitled to require certain conditions on licences which reflect provisions in existing legislation, such as capacity limits. This is disputed by the BBPA, BII and ALMR. They argue that Canterbury's policy exceeds the requirements of the Act in that such conditions unlawfully duplicate provision under separate legislation, such as health and safety legislation. The Statutory Guidance that accompanies the Act explicitly warns against this.

If the judicial review goes in favour of the licensed trade, this could force all local authorities to rethink their licensing policy.

Paradoxically, it might also lead to a fairer and more consistent application of health and safety legislation. Just like the Act it replaces, the Licensing Act 2003 makes arbitrary distinctions between entertainment that requires licensing (live music as a featured entertainment, for example) and entertainment that is exempt (such as big screen sport broadcasts). Both entertainments may present safety risks. But, if local authorities continue to rely heavily on licensing as the means to implement safety legislation clearly this favours exempt entertainments, even where these present greater safety risks than live music.

See the recent coverage in The Publican:
http://www.thepublican.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=17622&d=11&h=24&f=23&dateformat=%25o-%25B-%25Y

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 11:11 AM

I'm glad to see that it's a Local Authority and not an Organiser, Peformer, or Publican who seems to have fallen foul of this ill-conceived and badly designed bit of legislation. After all this time it still hasn't been implemented. What's the betting that the November date will get extended ?

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 11:45 AM

From The Publican

Council under fire in test case
Published 16th-June-2005

The pub trade has attacked a council in the High Court for undermining the Licensing Act.

The Publican was at the Royal Courts of Justice this week to hear solicitor David Matthias state that Canterbury City Council's over-prescriptive policy "flies in the face of the light touch of bureaucracy".

He added: "This is all leading to a highly bureaucratic regime, which is the opposite of what Parliament intended. It's a supreme irony that this scheme is at risk of being subverted by local authorities into a system that requires a far heavier touch than ever existed before."

The case is the latest stage of the industry's fight against councils slapping unfair demands on pubs under the Act.

The British Beer & Pub Association, the Association of Licensed Multiple Retailers and the BII hope the case will act as a precedent to force other councils to back down from policies which they believe have over-stepped the mark.

Doncaster Council agreed last month to amend its policy
following the threat of action, while talks are now going on with Gloucester Council.

Mr Matthias drew the court's attention to numerous elements of Canterbury's policy which he claimed were illegal.

The council's policy asked for licensees to state the maximum number of people they would have in their pub at any one time, he said.

But Mr Matthias argued it was not necessary to give this information under the terms of the Act and licensees would be leaving themselves open to prosecution if they stated a figure.

"If on a particular day this figure was exceeded there is the chance a licensing officer could come in and do a head count that could lead to a fine or six months imprisonment," said Mr Matthias.

He criticised the council's policy for "words that have the effect of dictating what an applicant should put in his form".

It was, however, brought to the attention of the court that Canterbury Council has made a bid for an 11th hour get-out by issuing an addition to its original policy. But Mr Matthias said the trade was pushing ahead with its attempt to have the whole policy re-examined.

As this article was posted Canterbury Council had yet to state its case to the court.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 02:12 PM

Matthias is a barrister, not a solicitor.

I am trying to get a summary of his skeleton argument.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: GUEST,Vectis
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:02 PM

We always feared that putting licences into the hands of local councils would subject the publicans to loads of little Hitlers coming out of the woodwork and stimying the system.
Maybe this case will be the first of many that render the whole act unworkable, I just hope it collapses sooner rather than later.
If Canterbury are involved it makes me worried for next years Broadstairs, this year should be safe though.
The magistrates were impartial and quick, this new system is too cumbersome and the impartiality has gone.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jun 05 - 07:26 PM

The magistrates were impartial and quick, this new system is too cumbersome and the impartiality has gone.

So has any accountability. The situation on music licensing - where Central Government blamed Local Government and vice-versa - is now set to be the case with all licensing matters. A situation where any improvement proves to be almost impossible.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: GUEST,The bArden of England at work
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:10 AM

I just wonder what Canterbury can do regarding Section 177 of the act regarding capacities of 200 people or fewer? Can they pass a bye-law that defies an Act of Parliament I wonder?
John Barden

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: GUEST,cluthabloke
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:25 AM

Sorry to have to correct but this is not UK legislation...it is English and only applies there. The system is quite different in Scotland. The UK Parliament does not have jurisdiction as it's a devolved matter. I'm not aware of the nuances of this debate nor the effects of the Act as there are not enough clues to what this pivots on.Enlightenment anyone?

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 09:28 AM

So many issues abouthis act - let's keep it focussed please....

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 11:17 AM

I think you'll find it applies to Wales also.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: GUEST,Nickp (cookieless)
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 03:17 PM

Looks like there's problems in the US too

Nick

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 04:25 PM

But Mr Matthias argued it was not necessary to give this information under the terms of the Act and licensees would be leaving themselves open to prosecution if they stated a figure.

That really screws the section 17 excemption if publicans are advised not to state the premises capacity.

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 04:26 PM

Sorry, bad typing, section 177

Subject: RE: UK Licensing Act already in court.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 05 - 05:38 PM

That US issue is about copyright licensing, not public performance licensing. It may be of importance, but please start another thread.

Keep an eye on BBC schedules - the Today programme may have something up its sleeve.