Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Jul 05 - 12:46 AM

Some guests aren't guests. I'm not, but I have never been able to get the GUEST from in front of my name. I assume that people who come often recognize my name by now.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Brakn
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 07:58 AM

Gargoyle posted.....
"It has been my position, since the B.S. line, that another line - for items such as: Lyric Request, Lyric Posted, and Melody i.e. legit real and reel music should last seven (7) days like the M.C. used to position them (and everything) in the early days."

What a good idea.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 06:57 AM

I find the GUESTs above the line usually much more friendly and even helpful than the ones below. I respond and talk to GUESTs in the upper half but very rarely in the lower half.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 12:11 AM

Good Point Mr. McG!!!

It has been my position, since the B.S. line, that another line - for items such as: Lyric Request, Lyric Posted, and Melody i.e. legit real and reel music should last seven (7) days like the M.C. used to position them (and everything) in the early days.

This change, (to a third area) would unfortunately (thankfully)drive most of the UK B.S. (which they believe is musical) into "The Snug at the End of the Bar."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:48 PM

AHHH!

What I meant to say was when it {the back door URL works, post from members and non-members all appear as Guests {wrote them}.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:46 PM

A Guest posting Mudcat's back door address was the way I learned it.

So I will return the favor:

http://207.103.108.99/threads.cfm


[Sometimes it works when the front door doesn't. And sometimes it doesn't. And when it does, post from members and non-members are appear as Guest].

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:57 PM

Of course you need quite a lot of persistance coming back and posting follow-up comments, when the Mudcat is quite likely to be down; especially if you haven't got the backdoor address.

I suspect that quite often when people don't come back it's because they can't find their way back before the thread in question has slipped off the page.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 01:55 AM

I just clicked on Membership, and all that is asked for is
first name
last name
e-mail
Mudcat Name
password.

Other info is optional.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 08:51 AM

Guest:

Unanswered Requests

Nigel

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:30 AM

Where do you find the request thread?

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From:
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 09:09 AM

Thanks, Peace.

Wow! a hot topic! Miss ONE day of Mudcat and all heck breaks loose! 8-)))))))

Look, the important thing is that we all learn. I like finding out about odd things from the threads.

Guests supply any amount of interesting items for discussion, and some of those offshoots may help solve another of the missing lyrics requests.

We still have tons of those. I've gone through the first 700 or 800 threads from the earliest onwards. I've been busy or I'd get back to it, but when I have the time, I go through them again. Many have been requested since and therefore they're solved, but with the number of threads here, there are lots still to be done. Let's get back to solving these mysteries.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:07 AM

Re:
1. You can register as a catter without supplying your name and address.

Every time I try to register - they tell me my name is already in use.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST,ragdall
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:18 PM

1. You can register as a catter without supplying your name and address.

GUEST,leeneia,
How? There are red asterisks beside the two name fields, indicating that supplying that information is mandatory.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:05 PM

1. You can register as a catter without supplying your name and address.

2. If A asks for info and B supplies it and C likes it, then C should thank B for the nice post. Knowing that others appreciate her/his efforts will keep B motivated.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:22 PM

I think Ragg pointed out the most valid reason for not registering - having to give your name and address to strangers on the net.

But there's another reason a post may show as an anyonymous "Guest." I've occasionally thought I was logged in when I wasn't, and then been surprised, upon later seeing my own post, to find it merely said "Guest."   Usually I add my name after a post, but not always. And when I know I'm not logged in, I add "cookieless Genie" or something like that after "Guest." But there have been at least a handful of times when a post of mine ended up looking like an anonymous Guest, and I didn't notice it till much later.

BTW, sometimes googling is a very poor way to find song lyrics. A case in point is my recent request for a song that, it turns out, is simply titled "Home."   I'm certainly not an expert at using search engines in a way that cuts out the garbage.   You can find a song titled "Cotton-Eyed Joe" MUCH more efficiently by googling the title than you can a song with a single, common word as its title. That's one reason the Mudcat community is so great.   So many of youse guys are veritable encyclopediae and downright ravenous when it comes to gathering new info - not to mention generous of spirit!.   

(Joe, I think I'm gonna hafta buy another set of (shameless plug)

Mudcat CDs:
Mudcat CD: Violet
Mudcat CD: Strawberry
Mudcat CD: Orchid
Mudcat CD: Rose
Mudcat CD: Plum

to help support the 'cat!

Genie

PS, Thanks again, Peace, for answering my latest lyric request so speedily!

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:37 PM

I hestitate to chime in on this topic because I rarely put out an effort to research and supply this kind of information. I'll do so occasionally, when the request concerns something in which I have a special interest and perhaps some personal knowledge (e.g.., if it's about New Orleans music and/or an artist I actually know.)

That said, when I do respond to a request for lyrics/chords/background/etc., I always take the attitude that I'm addressing not only the individual who made the initial request, but also any current or future member, "guest," browser, or lurker who might ever stumble across the discussion. I certainly don't expect thanks or acknowledgement from any such future reader, and similarly don't require recognition from the original questioner.

I'll also confess that I sometimes ask a question without first doing much (or any) research on my own. I don't feel too guitly about this, because I feel that in such cases, I'm kicking off a discussion that might well be of interest to any number of others.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:29 PM

I have often asked for help on mudcat and I am always humbled by the information, time and effort that other members, (I am a Mudcat member but the actions and reactions of some other members made me think again and I prefer to post as a guest) are willing to share in an effort to help. I also do my best to help where I can.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:45 AM

oh.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:36 AM

I know what you mean, Peace. It's disappointing to post info,then discover that the person asking never came back to get the answer.

I suspect that there are people who want something, and they hop all over the net, leaving requests. If one of the many gives them what they want, they forget the other sites.

When I click on a thread, the first I do is look at the date of the first post. I have no time for queries which were made several years ago! Also, if a day or more has passed, I look to see if the original poster has ever come back.

BTW - I am not a guest. Apparently AdAware or SpyBot keep removing my cookie.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:07 AM

unnamed GUESTs"? Best thing with them is simply not even to look at their posts. Then you don't have to worry about whether they are requests for lyrics or anything else. They don't exist, which is their choice. GUESTs with handles of any sort, that's a completely different matter.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:50 AM

Peace - you're a good man. Don't even think of cutting down your postings, you are one of the people I like to read on this forum. I'm always amazed by the amount of time you spend and the expertise you show in providing information for others and the help and advice that you give. It all shows a good heart, unlike some who seem only to want to interpret anything in the most negative way.

There is an old theory that people can be classified as 'radiators' and 'drains' and, IMHO, it is easy to see which are which on the forum and, in particular, on this thread.

Good luck to you my friend, and I look forward to seeing many more of your contributions here in the future.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:08 AM

Double the shot. It will help.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:06 AM

You know PIECE of....

Reading over several hundred of your 12,000 "contributions" it probably would benefit the MC (nothing useful posted for the DT) if you cut back your posing as postings to 10%. (9 out of ten of your attempts are worthless.) Think before you post - let it rest overnight - and then deleat.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

A kinder, more gentil being, until the smell of fresh blood from the pack fills the nostrils with desire for a .....

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:53 AM

October

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:48 AM

My objection has nowt to do with thanks. It has to do with GUESTS

PIECE - you obviously have expectations (high noble ones) therefor, go out and claim your own internet "real-estate" and set the standards you desire.

RAGDALL - Congradulations! You have passed exam 1-A of internet security. Unfortunately, all too many, (especially the ol' timer cats) have not even registered for "boot-camp" and their eventual "victum-hood" adds a little bitter-almond and alum to the spice within the threads.

PEACE/Sorcha - all of our lives are enriched - thanks to your attitude towards GUESTS. Stay the course - continue your status quo....please stay out of my threads and like the LafKat's I will attempt to stay out of yours.

SWYGIS/Harpy - we seem to share a tattered warp (or wolf) of a kindred soul....(holy submersible pinus! As the lumberjacks might exclaim - what is going on this summer!) The mission accomplished - there ARE clones of more than the Jones.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Whatever you real folk are pitching into to the brew vat - pass some on to the US Democrats - they seem to be lacking in spirit lately.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:41 AM

Well I remember the first time I came across Mudcat. It was a google search for the lyrics of Jack Of Diamonds by Lonnie Donegan. That was maybe about 2 years ago. The response I got was great and I was a guest in those days.

I hadn't been to a folk club since the early 70's.

I have to say that since that original guest post,I now run a folk club in an area where there never was one before. I am very pleased to say that there are a quite a few mudcatters who have performed at my club since then. Mr and Mrs Sooz, Strollin' Johnny, Oaklet, MR, John Rawlings, Mick Pearce, KJ, Fence, Mary Humphries and Treewind, Hip Flask Andy, Bloke In The Corner, Gaucho, El Greko, Linda Kelly and Pistachio, Weelittledrummer to name but a few. Plus many artists who are not mudcatters. There are also a number of mudcatters who have come to listen such as Georgiansilver, Travelling Audience, Zany Mouse, 12stringgrowler etc etc.
Mudcatters who will be appearing in the future are StrawLegend (HarriWattsBand), Rhyzla (Rhyzome)

Sorry if I have missed any mudcatters out - feel free to have a moan if I have missed you :-)

I have run several charity events at the club and helped to get a charity CD on the market called The Yellowbellies which has Lincolnshire artists on it.

I guess the point that I am making is that when you answer a request for help, you never know indirectly how much good you have done on behalf of the folk world.

So I would say to you guys - rethink your reasoning. You may be helping to create a new scene without realising it.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 11:42 PM

I sometimes have that effect on people.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 11:34 PM

Naw, man, you INSPIRED me. After the day I had, it's allowed. Don't even ask.

~S~

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 11:32 PM

So, who died and left you the moral arbiter of everything on the 'cat? I was stating something--not suggesting you, ma'am, should follow suit.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 11:28 PM

For the record, I am not going to pick my nose in public on request anymore, or moon passers-by when we jam out on the front porch, or stay sober enough to enjoy my own beer farts while yet somehow drunk enough to miss the pungency of others' beer farts. I don't care how nicely they ask, or how urgently people WANT me to do these things-- if people can't be bothered to meet my requirements for same, even tho I have stated them clearly and publicly on a number of occasions, it's just not worth it! Screw that shit! Let them do it for their own sorry-assed selves!

You're right, Peace-- to hell with people who come to a f*cking MUSIC forum for-- of all things-- MUSIC info!

I think while we are at it we should delete all music lying around here that's attributed to Anonymous. That "nameless" shit has got to stop!

AND I will demand a passport from henceforth from anyone who comes to my door-- no more nameless guests HERE, I don't care if I DID advertise an open jam!

Nor at church either. No name-- no communion, and no prayers, neither!

I'm converted!

Better living through punitive thinking!

~S~

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: number 6
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:53 PM

Hey Bruce ... just droppin' a line here to say (again) I appreciate your searches. I remember trying (to no avail) to find tabs for Hartford's Presbyterian Guitar. You dug it up from somehwere.

BTW ... your new hat looks good!

sIx

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:35 PM

Message me yer address. I'm not a friggin' mind reader.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:34 PM

and you're not even facing another 2000 to 7000 dollar roof repair. You have a lot of nerve pal. I want a CD. How dare you leave me out! I might even sing one of your damned songs

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:32 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:29 PM

a choke!!!!!hahahaha what a great Freudian slip!

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:28 PM

Talk about tantrum. Sheesh.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:27 PM

Back to you, Harpy.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: semi-submersible
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:27 PM

Some askers may get lost just because the thread dropped off the bottom.

I expect some small fraction of the GUESTs who don't reply, did actually read your response, and neglected to answer either from thoughtlessness or due to technical difficulty. ("Hey, Joe, remember that question you wrote on the internet Thursday on Susan's new computer? She sent you this printout of the answers that came back. Isn't this great?")

Often, a later visitor expresses gratitude for the discoveries made at another's behest. For each of these serendipitous thanks there must be many visitors who read, smile, and go away humming, but don't speak up. I agree with Joe on the asker being only part of the audience, but we are all free to leave requests unanswered for any reason. Thanks for the research you do!

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:24 PM

yeah, whatever! There are a lot more important things going on in this old world than your little tantrum. Grow up! Get a grip, pal. You get my meaning? Just holding up a mirror, PEACE!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:22 PM

It's as much a matter of plain manners as time wasted.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:21 PM

Your ususl wonderful self.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:08 PM

Well, I think I'm just not gonna answer any lyrics requests from unnamed guests anymore either! So there! They don't thank me. They don't acknowledge me. They don't appreciate me. Humppph!!! They waste my important time!!!!!!!   Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa! What an infant. Have a choke and shut the f**k up!


love, harpy

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:41 PM

I agree. I just won't do it for unnamed GUESTS. Again, for those who have difficulty reading, it is NOT about thanks.

Rags, I do NOT mean you or many others like you. Please know that. There are GUESTS who have become familiar and others who haven't. Therein is the distinction for me.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:34 PM

If one takes the view that one is doing someone a favor, and are thus owed thanks by reason of on'es personal expectations of others' manners, then yes, one will be disappointed-- and often.

If, on the other hand, one takes the view that by fulfilling a request one is adding lyrics to the fabulous store of songs someone may find here-- possibly oneself, or a fellow or potential member-- then no song search is a waste of time.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST,ragdall
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:02 PM

"I likely wouldn't object if there was a charge for membership. I can understand when people have no cash to spare but need the info. However, membership is free. Takes a few minutes, and Bob's yer uncle."

Peace,
I think I can understand your frustration with people who hide behind anonymity to waste the time of helpful, caring individuals, such as yourself. You are right to set out the terms under which you will respond to requests for help.

There are other reasons that people post as guests, though.

Some of us are here to learn and to benefit from the wisdom of others. Occasionally, if I believe that I have something to offer, I post to a topic. Because I don't have the great depth of knowledge that many Mudcat members display, I haven't felt that I deserve membership in the Cat. Nevertheless, on several occasions, I have considered registering here. Each time, when I open the registration page, the request to provide my name and address is the stumbling block. I don't do that anywhere on the Internet, including at sites on which I am an administrator. You, Peace, are one of the few, anywhere online, who know who I am. I could give a false name and address, (wouldn't be the first time), but if I did that here, what would be the point of registering? Those in charge here should be able to tell by my IP number that I am always the same poster.

Those who have access to the logs for this site likely can determine if the nasty "guest" messages are being posted by registered members. They can also tell if there is a repeat troll, or trolls, harassing people on this site. I don't know on which programme this site runs. Depending on the limits of the programme being used, they may, or may not, be able to do anything with that knowledge.

From my experience, determined trouble makers are not deterred by a registration requirement, they just register early and register often then they switch to a different username each time one is banned or deleted because of abuse of privileges.

While I appreciate your need to limit your involvement with Guest posters, I hope that I, and other well intentioned Guests at this site, will not be blocked, or ignored by other Mudcat members, because a few people abuse the Guest privilege.

God bless and hugs,
rags

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:45 PM

I really don't think it will matter much because others will help out. Thanks are nice. The joy of ferreting out lyrics is better, as is the fact that they'll be available to others. He who does things for a payback of any sort around here is likely hosed. Thanks for letting us know though. Most folks would simply stop looking for lyrics and not tell anyone they were doing so. Maybe the rest of us can try just a teensy bit harder.

Sorcha, you may get frustrated, but you are the Queen of Lyricsfinders!

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:19 PM

Oh.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:02 PM

There seem to be two threads here. My objection has nowt to do with thanks. It has to do with GUESTS. For reasons I stated above. Have a nice evening all.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM

As others have already said, questions provide the occasion for us to do something we enjoy doing - track down some obscure song, or pass on some bit of information about a less obscure song, or share some insight we think we might have about the meaning of a line in as song, or gossip with other Mudcatters about it. If they'd just found out the answer by googling that wouldn't have happened. And where's the fun in that?

I can't see how it matters if the person who asks the question comes back and says thank you or not. It's pleasant if they do, and especially so if they then stick around and become part of the continuing Mudcat, but if they don't, so what? It's not like they made me do something I didn't want to do anyway, or I wouldn't have done it. In any case, for all I know they did come back and say thank you, but I never spotted it, because there are a lot of posts and a lot of threads. Perhaps they said thank you where I never happened to see it.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:49 PM

PAX!!! PEACE PAX!!!

Summer Time and the Livn' should be Easy....However, seems that some of the "regulars" have become "irregular" and grumpy - stay away from the crabapples -unless you want to make jam.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:48 PM

And likewise, as a guest I have posted lyrics requests to members and recieved no thanks. It's no big deal. I have found some cracking stuff just rooting about trying to help someone.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:43 PM

Sorry to have left your name out of the short list above, George. Oversight on my part.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From:
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:42 PM

Peace,
I certainly sympathize with your feelings. I get the same way sometimes but I don't worry about it. 99% of the time, it might be several days later and I forget to check for a reply. But when I see a nice thank you, it certainly makes me feel good about doing what I could.

As Malcolm said, the nice thing is I learned something from the search.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:38 PM

It's not a question of thanks. It's a question, IMO, of not wasting time. I have developed a distaste towards the title, GUEST. It only takes a few to ruin things for many.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:36 PM

For myself (for what it's worth), I no longer care whether I get thanked or even acknowledged, so long as I learn something interesting (I frequently do) from finding the answer to a question. I regularly criticise people for asking questions without telling us what they already know, and make no apology for that. Learning to ask a question intelligently is the first step toward getting the answer you actually want, rather than the random guesses that often appear, and saves time for those of us who are doing the work.

People who ask questions that have already been answered (sometimes several times) annoy me rather more. The first thing I did when I discovered this place (six years ago) was learn how to use the search engine. It was a bit clunky in those days compared to what we have now (you could only search thread titles, not bodies, for one thing); nowadays finding material here is really quite easy if people bother to spend a little time over it. I was an internet newbie when I started, and I don't see why other people can't make the small effort required to learn as I did. They would discover a lot of interesting peripheral stuff at the same time, for one thing.

However, there will always be idiots. I've only once, I think, emailed a reply to somebody (I was in a very good mood). Anybody who is sufficiently interested to ask a question should be sufficiently interested to come back to see if there is an answer. If they don't it's their loss; and ours, of course, if they come back a week later and, because they can't see their thread any more, start a new one. That happened to me with the first thread I ever started here. I spotted the "filter" option and found it again, though. Anybody of moderate intelligence can do the same.

Mind you, I forgot all about it afterwards, and never thanked the people who had provided information. We all make mistakes.

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:36 PM

I never understand people who are two lazy to type seven letters (google) rather than six (mudcat)

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:32 PM

I don't think I have been guilty of giving misleading info, have I?

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for ly
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:28 PM

Suit yourself, Peace - but I've found than many (maybe most) of the really interesting lyrics requests come from non-members. I've sometimes spent weeks or months on a search for lyrics; and I've been known to buy a book, just because it has one song I'm seeking. I search for lyrics for my own satisfaction, not just to answer a request - but I do find that the requests serve as a motivator, pushing me farther in my research.

If you don't enjoy answering requests, don't do it - and you should especially not do it if you give misleading or incomplete information.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Answering request:This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:15 PM

Couldn't agree more, Joe. As I said, I will--and ofen have--spent hours looking for stuff for people. I will continue to do so. Just not non members.

PS I am guilty of doing that--linking to http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/ (Yet Another Digital Tradition)

I have stopped I think.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:11 PM

I'd say that people respond about half the time, giving thanks for responses to lyrics requests. I figure that the rest of the time, they got lost. I think it's important to remember that our purpose is to provide lyrics to the folk community, not merely to individual requestors who happen to ask for them.

And in responding, it's a good idea to heed the guidelines given in the FAQ (click). if you are responding to a request for lyrics, first search Mudcat and see if we already have the lyrics posted. If we do, provide a link to the location of the lyrics at Mudcat. If the lyrics are NOT at Mudcat, post them in the request thread, along wiht information about where you got the lyrics (the URL of a Website, if you got the lyrics on the Internet). Do not merely post a link for lyrics we don't have - links often go dead within a very short time. The exception is when the lyrics are to a recent pop song that no self-respecting folkie would have any interest in.

I think it's also important for us to provide good lyrics when we post them - lyrics that are researched and documented, so we get the best lyrics available. Speedy responses shouldn't be our goal - we should seek to provide information that is truly worthwhile, something that is a contribution to folk music knowledge. Sloppy lyrics posts are often worse than no response at at. We shouldn't place all the burden for folk music knowledge on Malcolm and Masato - this is something that we all can do - but it takes a little time and a little care.

The general principle is this: We're here to collect lyrics, not just to answer requests. Requests are just an excuse to goad us to finding lyrics.

-Joe Offer-


Oh, one other thing - oftentimes, I see Mudcatters link to http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/ (Yet Another Digital Tradition) to answer lyrics requests. Please don't do that - that site is just a mirror of our own Digital Tradition Folk Song Database. An exception would be if somebody wants pennywhistle notation or a gif of the tune or other sniff.numachi variations of our MIDI files.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:06 PM

"I likely wouldn't object if there was a charge for membership."

Internet precident says this would be a VERY lonely, quiet place if memebership was pay

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:04 PM

And no offence taken; just tossin' in the thought.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:02 PM

I likely wouldn't object if there was a charge for membership. I can understand when people have no cash to spare but need the info. However, membership is free. Takes a few minutes, and Bob's yer uncle. I think about some of the excellent people here who have given so much time to reasearch and establishing a research base: Joe Offer, Malcolm Douglas, Q and some others. A month back there was an entirely stupid request--one done to waste time. IMO, people like Joe, Malcolm and Q should not be having their time wasted like that. I don't know beans about the world of 'folk' music, but I do know beans about Mr Google. This is just part and parcel of me not posting below the line anymore until such time as GUESTs can't. I have witnessed too many instances of people slagging folks like LH--and on occasion me--and I'm afraid that people like that don't deserve the right to post here. So, I will help 99% of the members here when I can. I will not help non members. I don't wish to argue with anyone. I'm just stating an intent. Thought I should state it in writing.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:50 PM

I know, I get frustrated with them too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:49 PM

Damnit...

odd CHANCE I do....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:48 PM

I'm kinda on the same page as Peace...

But I just assume that I'm not gonna hear 'thanks' when I post lyrics to a request thread...

That way on the odd change I do, it's that much more of a pleasant surprise...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:44 PM

Be that as it may, and both you and kat make excellent points, I respectfully submit that I have considered both. Basically, no membership or 'forwarding' address, well, I just ain't gonna do it anymore. No offense to either of you or any other 'catter. The key here for me is member or e-mail. Been burned too many times.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:42 PM

The the others can ask.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:42 PM

I can understand your getting fed up with rude, thoughtless behaviour, Bruce. But a guest asking about an obscure lyric may very well be someone putting a toe in the waters of internet forum life for the first time; that was me, and I doubt if I'm the only one. Since then, just about a year ago, I've come to enjoy it here (on the balance) a lot.   
       Dean.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:40 PM

But others may benefit from the successful search, regardless of the original ingrate/inept surfer/whatever.

Subject: Lyr Req: This is not a request for lyrics
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:28 PM

I have noticed over time that after searching to find lyrics for some people I never hear back as to whether what they were asking was answered by the post I made. I do not mind investing the time if I know the question is serious. But I object if it's just asked and then forgotten about by the original poster. Usually, if the post is from a member, even when he/she has to post as GUEST, they leave a name and can be reminded if it's an older request. It's the 'visit once and never again' GUESTS that get under my craw. I will, and sometimes have spent hours looking for info for members. Love doing it and being of help on those occasions when fate and Mr Google favour the efforts. However, I think from now on I will not look for info for non members who do not leave an e-mail address OR become members. Frankly, I've seen too many hours go up the flue searching for obscure stuff, misnamed stuff, poorly described stuff, and while I do NOT object when it's for a member, I do when it's for people who never come back again and leave no way to make contact. Not a complaint; just a statement of fact.