Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties

Subject: Folklore: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: GUEST,Trevor Sommers
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:30 AM

I have just bought a S/H copy of the book Sea Shanties (1977) by Stan Hugill.
I seem to recall I once had a library book called Shanties From the Seven Seas by SH.
Is Sea Shanties a reprint with a different title. I have done a net search to no avail.
Thanks

Subject: RE: Folklore: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:52 AM

This Mudcat post seems to say that they are separate books.

"I looked in Stan's "Songs of the Sea," "Sea Shanties" and "Shanties from the Seven Seas" for you without success. You are quite right about Mrs. Cronin. However, I did see some mention of it elsewhere within the last couple of weeks. I will put the little grey cells to work and reply when I when I come up with a lead for you."

The quotation is from a thread entitled "Good Ship Kangaroo?" started on 07 Jan 99 - 03:15 AM

Subject: Index: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:12 AM

I found this at the Plymouth Song Index. It looks to me like it's supposed to be a complete index of Hugill's Sea Shanties - can you verify that, Trevor? Shanties from the Seven Seas has a huge number of songs, far more than I could post here (unless I get lucky and find an index online). Anyhow, here's the index:

Hugill, Stan
Sea Shanties
Publisher, date: Barrie and Jenkins, 1977

Song title(s)
Roll the old chariot
Donkey riding
Paddy doyle's boots
A-rovin'
Rio Grande
Goodbye fare-ye-well
Sacramento
Lowlands
Boney
The Liverpool Judies
The Liverpool packet
The Bosun's alphabet
Packet ship
Leave her Johnny
Ranzo
The Ebenezer
Roll the cotton down
Blood red roses
Rolling home
Hanging Johnny
Sally Brown
John Kanaka
Whiskey Johnny
We're all bound to go
Blow the man down
Yaw yaw yaw
Haul the bowlin'
Valparaiso round the Horn
Strike the bell
Blow boys blow
Haul away Joe
Santiana

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:19 AM

Some questions answered here:

http://www.aandc.org/research/shanties_biblio.html

Scroll down to Hugill.

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:21 AM

That's from http://www.aandc.org/research/shanties_biblio.html

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:44 AM

Thanks Peace and Joe Offer
That's the answer
Seems I have a First Edition (Paperback) and it then became republished as Songs From The Sea.
And yes - the songs you listed are there Joe. - thanks

Puzzle solved!
Trevor

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Susan of DT
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:23 AM

There is also: Songs of the Sea, The Tales and Tunes of Sailors and Sailing Ships by Stan Hugill, McGraw-Hill Book Company (UK) 1977

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:42 AM

That shanty bibliography omits Hugill's "Sea Shanties and Sailor's Songs" (Jenkins, 1969). My copy is boxed up at the moment, but the table of contents listed above looks like it's from that book.

Significantly, though, the sentimental "The Sailor's Way" and the double-entendre "Ratcliffe Highway" both seem to be missing.

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: rich-joy
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:53 AM

My "Sea Shanties and Sailors' Songs" also makes mention of his "Sailortown" ...



Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:08 AM

Shanties from the Seven Seas has been reprinted by Mystic Seaport 1994 having been first printed in 1961, per 'sleeve notes' also printed in 66, 79, 84 and 87 certain different versions apparently

I also got William Main Doerflinger's Songs of Sailor and Lumberman printed in 1951 prdating Stan's book. I think Doeflinger must have been fairly young (in his 30s) when he was collecting and I think he died only a year or so ago in his 80s

I always think also of Edith Fowke ~ the Canadian folklorist who also collected from Shantyboys (lumbermen)

Anyway Trevor Sommers are still in New Zealand? and not missing Sheffield? much

Ray Padgett, Barnsley

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:17 AM

Shanties and Sailors' Songs was published in 1969,published by Herbert Jenkins. It's a different book from Shanties of the Seven Seas which had been published earlier.

As well as the songs songs - classified according to the kind of work they tended to be used for - there is a lot of material about how the songs were used. And lots of Stan's drawings to make that kind of thing clearer. For example this picture of a "Flash packet chase"...

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:31 AM

Stan Hugill's SAILORTOWN is a fascinating book on the evolution of working waterfront districts around the world cattering to the sailor's needs and aspirations, not to mention his more basic desires. It's not a songbook, although there are interesting fragments of songs to preface chapters and illustrate points. The graphics as penned by Hugill are wonderful. The book is long out of publication, unfortunately, but can be occasionally found on the used book websites.

If you enjoy this kind of book you might also enjoy the several "sailortown" books that C. Fox Smith wrote in the 1920's.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Flash Company
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:44 AM

Try abebooks.com.uk All Stans books are listed, although some of them are VERY pricey, Its a good source, I have used it several times and everything has been shipped very quickly.
The site lists individual retailers worldwide who have copies.

FC

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:23 AM

For those interested:
The Mystic Seaport re-issues of "Shanties of the Seven Seas"(Hugill), "Songs the Whalemen Sang" (Huntington), "Chanteying Aboard American Ships"(Harlowe) and "Deep the Water, Shallow the Shore"(Abrams) are all available from CAMSCO at the bargain price of $16 each.
Call 800/548-FOLK (3655), or E-mail [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: GUEST,EBarnacle
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:41 AM

Sea Shanties is a distinct book with a lot of overlap to Shanties from the Seven Seas. The books were directed at different audiences but with the expectation that anyone who bought SFTSS would buy the other. (Imagine a Venn Diagram in which two circles overlap.)

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:42 PM

Yes, the correct title is indeed _Shanties and Sailors' Songs_ (no "Sea" in it). The original U.S. publisher in 1969 was Frederick A. Praeger.

Seemingly missing from Joe's paperback are the forebitters, "Paddy West," "Ratcliffe Highway," "The Gals Around Cape Horn," "The Stately Southerner," "Rude Boreas," "The Flying Cloud," "The Banks of Newfoundland," and "The Sailor's Way."

The order of the remaining songs differs considerably in both books. This leads me to wonder whether the 1977 book is merely an abridgment, or a different book with slightly different texts.

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:19 PM

Is that Trevor Sommers, formerly of Sheffield?

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 02:35 AM

Hi Malcolm
The same... :-)

Now trying to learn the button accordion -
I see you have a few entries next to your name:-)

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Stephen R.
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 12:45 AM

Whether the shanty men / shanty boy thing is a lucky accident with unrelated homonyms or a reunion of different senses of a single word will depend on where you stand on the etymology of the nautical "shanty." In any case it points to a certain overlap between sea songs (mostly forebitters rather than shanties) and lumber camp songs. Used to be that winter was a slack time for sailors, with little work at sea, so a lot of them would sign on as loggers for the season and go back to sea when it turned and demand for sailors went back up. This resulted in some exchange of repertory; the lumber camp repertory includes some sea songs and the fo'c's'le heard some songs learned from loggers. In a title such as "Shanties and Sailors' Songs" "Sea Shanties" would be redudant anyhow, since no one speaks of "land shanties."

Stephen

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 12:55 AM

Good luck with that accordion, Trevor. Keep in touch!

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 01:41 AM

The 1977 Sea Shanties is an abridged version of Shanties and Sailor Songs, the 1969 book mentioned above, the abridgement being a few chapters omitted altogether.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 05:59 PM

The abridgement, as I undertnd it, consisted of elimination of Shanties in languages other than English.

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:11 PM

Dick, _Shanties and Sailor's Songs_ (1969) contained no foreign language shanties. _Shanties from the Seven Seas_, however, contained a number of them, as did _Songs of the Sea_.

Subject: RE: Book Question: Hugill: Sea Shanties
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 06:59 PM

If they left out Stan Hugill's chapters about how the shanties were used and their historical background, that's half the book - and in a sense the more important half, because there are other places where the actual shanties can be found.