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New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ?
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Subject: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 15 Jul 05 - 01:39 AM This song was inspired by the Irish proverb: "A word is more enduring than worldly wealth." I'm not entirely happy with the page/age rhyme in the first verse, but I'm not quite sure how else to express the basic idea and still keep it in the rhyme scheme. And I'm not sure of the melody, either. It's pretty close to what I want, but I have some doubts as to its singability. Anyway, here it is: THIS PENNY IN MY PURSE Oh, each and every penny on this Earth Is counted somewhere, on some banker's page. But pennies tarnish and they lose their worth. While tiny words shine on from age to age. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word you ever spoke is in my heart to stay. Great Ceaser's coin is now a tarnished thing. It cannot buy a simple loaf of bread. But tales he told still make us want to sing, And to remember, though great Ceaser's dead. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word you ever spoke is in my heart to stay This penny in my purse I'll trade away. It will be sure forgotten by day's end. But all your words are in my heart to stay. Their weight and worth the measure of a friend. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word you ever spoke is in my heart to stay How carefully we guard, with lock and key, Each shining coin that comes into our share Oh, how much richer would our lives all be If we but traded words with equal care? This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word you ever spoke is in my heart to stay --- To hear the tune, copy the bold text, and paste it into the text window at Concertina.net's tune-o-tron and click [submit] (you may have to turn off your pop-up blocker) X:1 T:This Penny in my Purse C:Ann Magill M:3/4 Q:1/4=120 K:FMaj CF2CF2|CF2GF2|ED4z|DG2FE2|ED2ED2|EF4z| FC2FD2|FE2DE2|FG2z|GB2AG2|FE2DE2|GF2z| z2FE2E|D2EF3|FG2AB2|AG3z|GB2AG2| FE2DE2|EF2GF2|EF2z|| |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: GUEST,MMario Date: 15 Jul 05 - 10:31 AM CapriUni! Hi! Haven't given this the attention it deserves or listened to it yet - but my initial impressions. yup - there's something "off" about the first verse but I can't figure it out. My inclination as things are would be to move the first verse and make it the FINAL verse. The only other thing I saw immediatley is that I think "Their weight and worth the measure of a friend" might have more impace as "Their weight and worth true measure of a friend" |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jul 05 - 10:50 AM Some really good stuff here. I agree with Mmario's verse move, and I would add that when I saw THIS verse, I thought it should come first: This penny in my purse I'll trade away. It will be sure forgotten by day's end. But all your words are in my heart to stay. Their weight and worth true measure of a friend. This verse, IMO, makes it a song not of lost love and kinda sappy, but a GREAT thought about friendship-- puts the sense of the whole song into a context that keeps this from being a singer-songwriter-angst piece. Nice tune, too, and I wondered about a concertina with it. Light edit of present first verse: Now, each and every penny on the Earth Is duly counted on the banker's page. But pennies tarnish, and they lose their worth, While tiny words shine on from age to age. The problem I have with this verse is that the imagery of the banker's page is a stretch-- feels forced, present only to make the rhyme. Also, I am not sure that EACH tiny word I have uttered can really carry the weight you intend in this song. So-- a heavier edit: Now, each and every penny on this Earth Is duly counted, as we take our wage. But pennies tarnish, and they lose their worth, While tiny words may shine from age to age. An alternative would be to have the "banker's BOOK", and find a rhyme for that which fits your thoughts for the last line. Last inoput-- you might rearange the lines to be AABB instead of ABAB. Best of luck! It may be that the really great song inside you, that prompted you to start with these lines, is still in there in a finer form waiting for you to see it more clearly. Don't rush-- it will come as it will. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 15 Jul 05 - 12:11 PM I like your song very much, CapriUni. Thanks for posting it. I think the problem with the line is not "page", it's "some". "Some" is an unimportant word, but it takes energy to sing, especially when the m in "some" bumps into the "b" in "banker's" How about "is counted somewhere, on a ledger page" "is noted well, on abacus or page" |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 15 Jul 05 - 06:15 PM Thanks, Guys! This is just the kind of advice I needed to get my brain off its sticking point. MMario --yeah. That first verse is a doozy. I wanted to open the song with an observation about the world that our culture commonly tells us is good or true, and immediately challenge it, building from the abstract to the deeply personal. In this case, it's the idea that to be a good, upstanding citizen, you have to count your money, and budget well, and lock your door against theives, and that words are cheap. I want to turn that on its head. Hmmm... There may be some good words in that paragraph above: "thief," "lock," "count" ... hmmmm. And I think you're right about "true" in that third verse. Susan -- I intended this to be a strong friendshp song from the beginning. If that's not the impression now, something is truly "off" -- the chorus perhaps? And actually, I picked "age" to rhyme with "page," rather than the other way around. That probably means both words are wrong. And "Tarnish" isn't strong enough. Tarnish can be polished away -- it doen't really affect the value. I may have to put the whole verse aside, for a while, and work on the rest of it. Leenea -- Abacus? Wouldn't "Databank" be a better fit for today? ;-) (hey! "the databank" fits iambic pentameter!) Oh, and there's a typo in the ABC file. The last measure should be |EF4z|| |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM No-- it's not the chorus. It's that if friendship IS your intention you need to lead with it, because of all the other assumptions people put before friendship in this culture. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:31 AM because of all the other assumptions people put before friendship in this culture. Yesh.... tell me about it! :::Sigh::: Still, I might be able to reinforce the non-romantic message of the song through the chorus (especially since those are the lines that get repeated). How about this? This coin will slip between my fingers in a day. But every word I've ever heard is in my heart to stay. (???) I've also been playing with the image in the (currently) first verse, by personalizing it. Instead of making the verse about pennies in the abstract, keep the song about that one penny the song-narrator is talking about: "This penny in my purse has traded hands" etc. |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Jul 05 - 11:42 AM Keep working on it. And sing it til it finally settles into its final form. Here's a minor edit: How carefully we guard, with lock and key, Each shining coin that comes into our share How carefully we guard, with lock and key, Each shining coin that comes into our SNARE cHEERILY, cHARLEY nOBLE |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 16 Jul 05 - 01:58 PM Hmmm... Snare? Maybe, but that implies we're all greedy, sneaky snots. And I don't think that's the case. Some money we do, indeed, come by honestly and modestly... How about: "Each shining coin that's counted as our share"? |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Jul 05 - 03:04 PM Sounds better to me. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: Amos Date: 16 Jul 05 - 03:43 PM Words aren't tiny, Capri. They can be gentle, or quiet, or friendly, or loving, or human, or caring, though. The page and age lines are fine, in my opinion. To me, it is "tiny" that jars. A |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: GUEST,Tannywheeler Date: 16 Jul 05 - 04:18 PM I kinda liked the banker's page thingy, but there are lots of good ideas for tweaking here. Might want to check the spelling -- the Roman emperor was usually spelled with the symbol that looks like a combined a & e, but the a was usually the first part of the unit. I know -- insig. detail, but I'm not much of an idea person--and I was raised by a cohort of English teachers. (Shades of G. Keillor's Professional Organization of English Majors) Tw |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 16 Jul 05 - 04:53 PM Good point, Amos. And the whole point of the proverb, it seems to me. And of your alternatives, I think "human" is the best fit for meaning (words don't have to be caring or loving or gentle to stick with us through our lives, unfortunately. Otherwise, psychiatrists wouldn't have such a lucrative business). But I'm not sure how "human" would fit into the rhythm of the other lyrics, consonant and vowel wise. BTW, I think Ireland is one of those cultures where the power of words is most respected. France is known for its food and wine, Italy for its romance, and Ireland for its "blarney." I got this proverb from the Seanfhocal Archive; of the 198 proverbs listed, 26 are explicitly about the power of words, and several more imply the power of words. Besides the proverb that inspired this song, my favorites include: "Often, it's a person's mouth that broke his nose." and, conversely: "A good word never broke a tooth." "Say little, but say it well." and (especially apropriate for Mudcat): "There are two sides to every story, twelve versions to every song, and twenty-two exceptions to every rule of grammar!" ...and here I am, going back to the word mill in my brain... |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 16 Jul 05 - 05:08 PM Duly noted, Tannywheeler... Though when the song is sung, no one will notice the spelling, anyway... The more important thing, I think, is I'm not sure of Caeser verse, either. He did write of his campaign, and wrote well (I remember reading from his accounts in Latin class in high school). But his work doesn't really inspire singing -- that, I think falls to Virgil. But, thanks to a famous quote from Jesus, "Caeser's coin" is linked in people's mind with power, and taxes, and moneychangers, and accountants. And although Virgil would have spent "Caeser's coin," you'd probably have to be a Liberal Arts major like ourselves to get that... And if I write about "A coin that Homer spent -- a worthless thing" people might think of Homer Simpson, these days... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 17 Jul 05 - 11:02 PM Added some verses, tweaked others, and rearranged everything. What do you think now? Oh, jingling pennies sing a merry song, But once they're spent, we think of them no more. The words we trade stay with us all life long, Within our vaulted hearts, for rich or poor. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word I've ever heard is in my heart to stay. Oh, how this penny glitters in the light! But I'll not weep or fret when we must part; The words my mother said to me each night They will forever echo in my heart. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word I've ever heard is in my heart to stay. This penny in my purse I'll trade away. It will be sure forgotten by day's end. But all your words are in my heart to stay. Their weight and worth, true measure of a friend. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word I've ever heard is in my heart to stay. Great Caeser's coin is now a tarnished thing. It cannot buy a simple loaf of bread. But tales he told still make us want to sing, And to remember, though great Caeser's dead. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word I've ever heard is in my heart to stay. There is no penny ever spent or lost But it gets counted on a banker's page. But pennies all will one day turn to rust, And shining words ring true from age to age. This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word I've ever heard is in my heart to stay. How carefully we guard, with lock and key, Each glinting coin that's counted in our share Oh, how much richer would our lives all be If we but traded words with equal care? This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word I've ever heard is in my heart to stay. --- Oh, and I also tweaked the tune a bit, too: X:1 T:This Penny in my Purse C:Ann Magill M:3/4 Q:1/4=120 K:FMaj CF2CF2|CF2GF2|ED4z|DG2FE2|ED2ED2|EF4z| FC2FD2|FE2DE2|FG2z|GB2AG2|FE2DE2|GF4z| z2FE2E|D2EF2E|F2GA2A|G4zG|B2AG2F| E2DE2E|F2GF2E|F6|| |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: Flash Company Date: 18 Jul 05 - 09:54 AM Love this last version, I sometimes wish I could do more serious stuff as well as the comic parody I tend to go for. But then, the clown always wants to play Hamlet! FC |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 18 Jul 05 - 10:12 AM Thanks, Flash! (Don't think we've "met" before -- nicetameecha!) Don't knock comedy. I'm of the school that says comedy is one of the most profound things the human mind can conceive. Still, I know the feeling. That's why I like to use proverbs as a jumping off point -- they're concise observations that often highlight seeming incongruities, they're on all sorts of subjects, and are very rarely "Oh woe is me, and my little sad life." |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: open mike Date: 18 Jul 05 - 12:31 PM how about another word for tarnish... instead of using that word twice.. can't think of a good one, though oxidize is not very poetic, methinks |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 18 Jul 05 - 01:06 PM Um, I do use the word "tarnish" only once. Maybe you've got two versions playing in your head at the same time? Or maybe one "tarnish" is one too many... I must admit, there's something I don't like about the word, either... but I can't put my finger on it. Too weak, maybe. hmmm. And it's not that "Oxidze" isn't very poetic, it just has the wrong number of syllables. But maybe that's the same thing... |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: nutty Date: 18 Jul 05 - 01:36 PM PLEASE DON'T CHANGE a word of the original ..... I want to sing it just as it is. Its short and straight to the point, yet says so much. Dont't worry about repetition that's a ploy many songwriters use to great effect. Don't change your opening verse ....thats an observation that the whole song hinges on. Don't make it any longer .... it will lose its punch Have faith in your original instincts .... more often than not they are right |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 18 Jul 05 - 02:35 PM Nutty -- Thanks so much for the compliment. And I am trusting my instincts. My instincts told me this song needed tweaking. Unfortunately, after that part, they all started mumbling, and I couldn't quite make out what they were saying. That's why I posted the thread the way I did -- I needed to ask: "Excuse me, can you figure out what the instinct behind my pituitary just said? 'Cause I'm not sure..." Otherwise, I would have posted the song with a message of "Ta-Da! Look what I wrote!" That Caeser verse, for example. Never felt comfortable with it, and couldn't figure out why. But Open Mike's comment about "tarnish" helped me figure it out. So: How's this? Great Caeser's coin is now all worn away. It cannot buy a simple loaf of bread. But tales he told, we're telling still today So we remember, though great Caeser's dead. |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 23 Jul 05 - 03:10 PM It's been a few days, and I'm still happy with this latest version. But my Dad was confused by the phrase "Within our vaulted hearts" in the first verse. Opinions? |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 30 Dec 05 - 02:55 PM Hi! Back again! Also, when Dad heard the tune, he thought the rhythm sounded too 'mechanical' or sing-songy. But he did not have that reaction (at least, not strongly enough to mention it) with other songs I'd written in the same iambic pentameter. And then, the other day, it occurred to me that one reason he had this impression is that the melody goes up and down at every note, rather than using the same note for the accented and unaccented syllables. So I made some changes to the tune, just as an experiment. I'm not asking which one is "better," but rather, if my impression is correct. Does this new tune change the feel of the rhythm (as in "Smoothing it out")? If so, it's something I'll keep in mind for the next time. Rhythm and meter in music is one of the harder things for me to get a good grasp on. So that's one reason why I love Mudcatters' feedback. X:1 T:This Penny in my Purse C:Ann Magill M:3/4 Q:1/4=120 K:FMaj CC2FF2|CD2FF2|ED4z|GG2FF2|DD2ED2|EF4z| w:Oh jing-ling pen-nies sing a mer-ry song, but once they're spent, we think of them no more. FF2ED2|DE2EE2|FG4z|GB2AG2|FE2DE2|GF4z| w:The words we trade stay with us all life long, with-in our vault-ed hearts for rich or poor. z2FF2E|E2FF2E|F2GA2A|G4zG|B2AG2F| w:This coin will slip be-tween my fing-ers in a day. But ev'-ry word I've E2DE2E|F2GF2E|F6|| w:ev-er heard is in my heart to stay. |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: Genie Date: 30 Dec 05 - 08:39 PM Hi, Capri! Sounds like another good one. And though I haven't been able to play the tune yet, a couple of very minor things popped out at me in the lyrics which I might change. (You realize, of course, that these are mere first impressions, and your own muse must prevail.) :-D --- Great Ceaser's coin is now a tarnished thing. It cannot buy a simple loaf of bread. But tales he told still make us want to sing, And to remember, though great Ceaser's dead. --- Mine: Do you really need the "to" in the last line? ===================================== --- This penny in my purse I'll trade away. It will be sure forgotten by day's end. --- Word sequence seems a bit odd. How about "It will surely be forgotten ... ?" ============================= ---- How carefully we guard, with lock and key, Each shining coin that comes into our share Oh, how much richer would our lives all be If we but traded words with equal care? ---- Again, minor, but how about "...If we could trade out words with equal care...?" (That sounds more natural to me.) ==================== Genie |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 30 Dec 05 - 10:48 PM Genie -- thanks for your ideas. I'll have to play the song back with the new words in the lines. But I'm not sure they'll fit, as I wrote the tune in a very specific iambic pentamenter -- I rather like the "old fashioned" feel (after all, who trades in pennies, these days? ;-)). |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: Genie Date: 05 Jan 06 - 12:08 AM Who trades in pennies, you ask? Hmm... Probably no one but musicians! §;-D Genie |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 05 Jan 06 - 01:18 AM LOL!! Now, if only there were still gumball machines that took pennies... |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: mg Date: 05 Jan 06 - 02:18 AM Oh, each and every penny on this Earth Is counted somewhere, on some banker's page. But pennies tarnish and they lose their worth. While tiny words shine on from age to age. I would as per usual suggest standardizing the rhythm... So I would do the verses something like Every penny on this earth Is counted on some banker's page But pennies _______ (dull?) and lose their worth While words shine on from age to age. mg |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 05 Jan 06 - 02:29 AM What do you mean, "standardizing" the rhythm? The song is written in iambic pentameter... isn't that the most standard rhythm of all? I am much more familiar with spoken poetry than song lyrics. So I'm not sure what you mean. |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: gnu Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:36 AM Another gem... I enjoy reading these. |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 05 Jan 06 - 12:24 PM Thank you, gnu. :-) Just for the record: While I'm grateful for all the feedback and help I've gotten, I'm also happy with the lyrics to this song, as it stood on 18 July, '05. I only refreshed this thread to experiment with the melody, and learn, through experience and feedback, more about how pitch and perception of rhythm work together. |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:54 PM Hello, Again. When I last went at this song with a flurry of effort, I was getting ready for my Dad's next scheduled visit, and was hoping to work out the problems he had with the rhythm in person... That visit never came, as he fell off the step ladder on January 19th, and then, they found his lung cancer... Now, I'm planning on putting all five of my "Irish Proverb songs" together in a booklet, to send to some of the family and friends who came to his memorial... And this one is still the least finished. Dad's criticism of the rhythm still rings in my head, and I wish I could ask him... but -- a new thought just popped into my head today: Would this song work better in 6/8 time than 3/4 time? And are there rules of thumb for converting between the two? And yes, I probably will have to change the lyrics, if I change the time signature. |
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Subject: RE: New song by CapriUni: Help w/ tweaking ? From: CapriUni Date: 18 Sep 07 - 06:33 PM Okay. Changed the time signature, key, about a third of the melody, and a handful of the lyrics. I think this works a lot better, now. MMario -- I made that verse about friendship the last one. I thought it was fitting as a final word. Still not completely happy with the Caeser verse; that may have to be reworked around a different historical figure. To hear what this tune sounds like, copy the bold text below, paste it into the text window of the ABC Convert-o-Matic, and click [submit]. That will bring up a page where you can click to hear a simple midi. (If, for some odd reason, you computer fails to cooperate, try turning off your pop-up blockers. I've heard rumors that that can help). X:1 T:Jingling Pennies C:Ann Magill M:6/8 Q:1/4=100 K:G D G2 FED|E2 F G2 F|G3 z GA| w:These jin-gling pen-nies sing a mer-ry song, oh but B2 A G2 F|EFE C D2-|D z C DG E-| w:once they're spent, I'll think of them no more. The words I trade E GF E F2|G A2 AcB|A2 G F2 E| w:will stay my whole life long, wi-thin my cham-bered heart, for F2 A G3|z2 G F2 F|EF G2 FG-| w:rich or poor. This coin will slip be-tween my fin- G ABB A2-|A z AcB A-|A GFE F2| w:gers in a day. But ev-'ry word I've said or heard FGA G2 F|G6|] w:is in my heart to stay. These jingling pennies sing a merry song, Oh, but once they're spent, I'll think of them no more. The words I trade will stay my whole life long, Wi-thin my cham-bered heart, for rich or poor. Chorus: This coin will slip between my fingers in a day But every word I've said or heard is in my heart to stay. There is no penny ever spent or lost But it will be counted on a banker's page Though pen-nies all will, one day, turn to dust And shining words ring true from age to age. (Chorus) Great Caeser's coin is now all worn away. Oh, it cannot buy a sim-ple loaf of bread. But tales he told we're tel-ling still today, So we remem-ber, though great Caeser's dead. (Chorus) This penny in my purse I'll trade away. It will surely be forgotten by day's end. But all your words are in my heart to stay. Their weight and worth, true mea-sure of a friend. (Chorus) |
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