Guitar Repair

Subject: Guitar Repair
From: Sierra Willy
Date: 02 Jan 99 - 11:40 AM

I have a seventies acoustic Epiphone nothing fancy, plywood construction, etc. The thing is this guitar sounds so good and stays in tune through temperature changes, hard hammering and other forms of performance anxiety induced stress. It has a warped neck and gets harder and harder to play over the years. I tried to adjust the neck and discovered that the previous owner had stripped the steel adustment rod. Is it possible to replace the rod without ripping the whole thing apart?

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jan 99 - 03:15 PM

You can email your question to this company:

Stringed Instrument Division

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jan 99 - 03:20 PM

I should have noted, click on 'repairs' on their menu, and you will get the info you need to email a question regarding your guitar.

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Benson
Date: 02 Jan 99 - 04:03 PM

I bought an "Epiphone" in the 60's....it was hard to play even when new.......however, I would advise that you call the company in.....where is it???? Kalamazoo Mi?? and advise them of the problem.....See what they suggest.....They have a wealth of information with regards to your guitar.........

For the sake of "convenience"....I once decided to do the (what do they call a "guitar repaiman"...a leitherer...?)..........repair on a Martin guitar that could have been done for free.....and destroyed a really nice guitar..........I still feel like a jerk!!!!

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From:
Date: 02 Jan 99 - 08:12 PM

You can try the Epiphone site. Epiphone is now owned by Gibson. Gibson's site is here. You can follow the menus to get to the Epiphone page.

Murray

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Jan 99 - 01:41 PM

Just to get the record right, I offer the following. First, I live about 25 miles from Kalamazoo, where the Gibson's were made for years. In fact, many of the luthiers from the factory are still in business repairing old instruments. I believe the "Heritage" line of guitars are made by some of them.

The Epiphone brand is not "now" owned by Gibson, it always has been owned by them. It was their "second" line of guitars, built by Gibson, originally. They may have sold it and reaccquired it later; I don't know about that. But the first guitar that I ever bought and paid for myself was an Epiphone FT79 with a cherry subburst finish when they were still in Kalamazoo. It was a wonderful instrument and I wish I had it today.

All the best,

Mick Lane

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Benson
Date: 03 Jan 99 - 03:42 PM

Dear Mick, I think you are quite right......Epiphone has always been a line of "Gibson".....kinda like "Johnson and Evinrude outboard motors"........And then there is Kay.......which I think is also a "branch" of Gibson......

My "Aunt" lived in Alma Mich. and worked "laying frets" for Gibson......

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: BK
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 12:22 AM

I'd be surprised if Epiphone was "always" part of Gibson, I guess it might be, but I remember Epiphones that had no apparent relation to Gibson. I have a "kalamazoo Epiphone" which has the traditional rectangular blue Gibson-style made-in-kalamazoo label inside, and, on detailed inspection, is extremely similar to an analagous Gibson model. I also have an older Epiphone, from long before the blue labels and when they were said to be an independant company; I've never seen a Gibson at all like it in construction details.

Break/break: this stimulated me to get my copy of Gruhn & Carter "Acoustic Guitars & Other Fretted Instruments." Very authoritative; one of the authors is George Gruhn, of Gruhn Guitars in Nashville, a nationally recognized expert. I'm sure his co-author is also well qualified. They say Epiphone wasn't sold to Gibson's parent company, "C.M.I." until 1957. This would be consistant with what I remember and observe in the design & construction details of the instruments.

(It's C.M.I. that owned Gibson, and, eventually these other brands, as well as Gibson, not Gibson owning anything, not even themselves...)

As for home luthiery- I do it as much as I have time and opportunity (for what that's worth; used to be a great deal more!). Many Epiphones from about that time have necks that can be easily demounted from the bodies by means of 4 large screws which reach all the way through the body from a plate on the back to the underside of the neck; this makes demounting easy for placing the neck under some carefully/gently applied straightening pressure for a few weeks (gentle heat aslo helps). As I recall, the screws are phillips heads, & probably #3, not #2, so PLEASE use the correct size phillips head screw driver, so as to preserve these important screws. I's also very easy to block/alter the angle of the neck (after it's straight) with this design. I've seen these old epiphones where that was the major problem, not the actual straightness of the neck. In those cases it was also necessary to examine the large block through which these screws pass to see if it's loose & needs some judicious bracing/re-gluing, etc. (I have good luck with old-time slow setting epoxy; NEVER use any fast setting glues-the road to disaster!)

Meanwhile many instruments had a brass nut on a steel shaft (the brass is much softer & strips before the steel); if yours' has this feature you just might, if you're lucky, be able to coax the old nut off & find the steel threads on the shaft underneath in acceptable condition, so you only have to find another nut.

Sometimes an acceptable expedient is to get off the old nut and place washers to change the position of where the nut sits on the shaft. The more distal threads are often still intact, so you shim the nut such that it engages the portion of the rod with the threads still intact. Can make the cover plate bulge a little, but it can still work OK.

On the other hand, if it's all steel & really badly stripped you'll need an expert luthier to correctly install a whole new adjusting rod system.

Even though it's an old "plywood" guitar, if it still works well for you I'd consider spending the money.. but.. on the other hand... If you shop carefully enough and have access to bigger cities & true discount prices (which you will NOT find in the otherwise pleasant smallish college town in which I now reside..) the better Seagulls (may have to play a lot of them) with the cedar tops might be hardly any more than some repair shops would charge to repair yours. It's a random process, but the best of them are really very good, indeed. And an entry-level or mid-range, less decorated Martin or, better yet, Taylor might be had at a surprisingly acceptable discount price. I've seen several well under a grand - and purchased a new DM, w/great sound, for an offer too low to refuse. Seen occasional new Taylor's at similar bargain discounts. (My next guitar!) If you can't start at least 40% off the true msrp, [not an inflated BS/rip-off "list" price]with hard-shell case, don't waste your time talking further; go to a different store - or city.

In any case, good luck..

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 06:48 AM

Thanks, BK. (little HTML experiment there)You taught me something I did not know. My assumption that Epiphone was always a part of the Gibson family was an incorrect assumption based on it always being around Kalamazoo while I was growing up. I found your post very interesting. I knew the C.M.I. link, but didn't feel the need to post it.

I agree with you on your view on the Seagulls. I have one of them and love the sound.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: harpgirl
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 09:34 AM

You can also E-Mail my local dealer and repair wizard, Gordon Scott at gordonsstringmusic.com. for an opinion on your patient...harpgirl
Mick, I played a fancy Seagull over the holidays. What a sweet and gorgeous instrument!

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Bill Cameron
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 11:03 AM

Here's more than you ever wanted to know about the history of Epiphone, which has had quite a tangled history--excerpted from Colin Cripps wonderful site on vintage and collectible guitars--well worth a look for a collector/non dealer's opinion on the relative collectibility of hundreds of different guitar models, production and serial # info etc etc. I tried to post this as a reply to Mick a couple of days ago but it vanished in the ether.

"Epiphone was a family business established in 1873 as "the House of Stathopoulo" by Anastasios Stathopoulo, a greek violin maker. In 1923 they incorporated and at this time made mostly high quality and fancy banjos. In 1928 the name was changed to "Epiphone" after Epi Stathopoulo, president of the company and one of the founder's sons. In the 1930's, the company changed its emphasis to guitars. Epiphone was the only banjo company to successfully switch to guitar production.

1954 Epi catalog with a blond Emperor Zephyr Regent. The C.G. Conn Company (a band instrument manufacturer) bought Epiphone in 1953 and moved production to Philidelphia (although the labels still said New York). This was done partially as a "strike break" move, as New York Epiphone workers were in conflict with the Stathopoulio family. The Stathopoulo family regained control again in 1955, but few if any instruments were made in 1956 and 1957.

The Chicago Musical Instrument company (CMI), which owned Gibson, bought Epiphone in 1957. When CMI purchased Epiphone, they got all of Epiphone's current stock of parts including bodies, necks, pickups, etc. Gibson used these "New Yorker" parts in conjuction with their own parts when making Epiphones from 1958 to 1961. By 1961 Gibson has used up all the original New York-made Epiphone parts, and then used Gibson parts made in Kalamazoo. Instruments from 1958 to 1969 are commonly referred to as "Gibson/Epiphones".

When Norlin purchased CMI (Gibson) in 1969, all Epiphone production was moved to Japan. Later, productions was moved to Korea. Many of the imported instruments bear a label with Gibson's Kalamazoo address and no mention of Japan or Korea, which can be misleading. However, these import instruments have model numbers that do not correspond with Kalamazoo made Epiphone model numbers listed below. Also the serial number is usually 7 digits or longer (unlike U.S. Epi's with a 6 digit or less serial number). "

Bill

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: BK
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 09:55 PM

Wow! mudcatters strike again! Give a little & get back more than you might've hoped. This is simply the greatest place to share & recieve folkish musical information, a sort of internet folk-musical Hobbiton. I had no real idea about much of the history of Epiphone sumarized here, and only recognized belatedly that I'd previously encountered any of this (so soon we foget!) & don't have all that much time to read the references I have. One of the reasons I often "lurk" instead of join in - no time!!

Bill: thanks for the link, I'll probably add it to my favorites list. I've always thought Epiphones were neat; My old Epiphone "Rivoli" mandolin is a New York model, and like nothing else I've seen; a carved arch top & an oval sound hole at the base of the fingerboard, with a white ivoroid binding. I've recollections of being in music stores as a young kid and seeing what I thought were incredibly beautiful Epiphone arch-top guitars - they always smelled good and seemed a little magical (always had a very active, if corny, imagination). Thanks again for the info on Epiphone history.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Guitar Repair
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Jan 99 - 11:35 PM

I started out thinking I knew about this subject and my friends here at the 'Cat show me how little I know. And I am grateful. Thanks for sharing.

All the best,

Mick