Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes

Subject: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,New Fan
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 12:21 PM

Ive just come accross this guy singing with just an acoustic, I think some of you would really like his music, he is a must to check out,

www.overplay.co.uk/menephes

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,Old Fan
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 03:00 PM

Sounds like an unashamed plug.

You wouldn't be related by any chance?

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: kendall
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 06:38 PM

Give us a blue clicky and I'll check it out.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,Hello
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 06:43 PM

The guys sings sharp, the music is a kinda steal from "Let it Be" and the tempo is screwed. So, GUEST New fan, what do you like about it, since you have said this is a review.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,The Devonian
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 07:15 PM

This board is sadly riddled with self-promoting posts from artists and bands. Unless I know the band I take little notice of such posts and I suspect others don't take much notice of them either.

New Fan - you'll have to do better than a post on mudcat if you want to get on 'Top of the Pops'

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 07:48 PM

Did you say "a must to avoid"?

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,another new fan
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 07:53 PM

well I just had to take an unbiased unopinionated objective
visit to this website to check this new singer songwriter out for myself..


and I think I... errrmm I mean he .. is bloody marvelous
and bound to be a huge success with the record buying public
and nubile ladies all around the world.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,Auggie
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 11:44 PM

Here you go folks.

blue clicky for Menephes

Not exactly my cup of tea, but to each his own.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,bugger !!!??
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 12:01 AM

his media player crashed my internet explorer..

"Internet Explorer has encountered a girly hissy fit problem and must shut down..
sorry for the inconvenience.."


dont know about the wider music buying publi..
but my computer dont seem to like him

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 10:13 AM

The three songs all have the sort of lyrics which should make them safe for daytime playlist airplay on any BBC or corporate controlled radio station. (For those who do not know me - that is not intended as a compliment). All three songs are forgettable and the intonation on "Broken Promises", in particular, is rather poor. Hello has already pointed out the resemblance of the Let It Be riff to the one in the second song.
The voice is saleable, as long as a few singing lessons have been learned. All I can say about the guitar playing, is that this guy has many long evenings of hard work ahead of him. For the time being, he will probably need to practice his singing, writing and guitar playing at home. To be fair to him, I was considerably worse, when I started back in the early seventies.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 10:18 AM

Alan - the quality of Folk Musicianship has been going up over the years a lot faster than MY ability to keep up !

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 02:44 PM

It's annoying, isn't it Terry!

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 01:20 AM

Blue clicky
www.overplay.co.uk/menephes

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:13 AM

I'm inclined to agree with alanabit. The kid needs work. I say "kid" because, based on the work, I'd estimate his age to be somewhere between 19 and 22. On the positive side, I can also here what it is that got New Fan excited. There IS a spark there. If he came in to my open mic on any given Friday night I would encourage him to come back and to hit every other open mic in town regularly to get the exposure, the stage time, and the influence of other songwriters and ideas. Most of us learn to stop writing song exclusively about our love lives fairly soon. Let's face it most of us wrote some variation on that song when we started. He needs to study the other kinds of songs that are out there. He needs to study Woody Guthrie, Cole Porter, Tom Paxton, Merle Haggard, Jerome Kern, sand anyone else's music he can lay hands on. With some work the kid just might make some magic.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 09:57 AM

If you're any good you don't need to plug yourself, other people will do it.

eric

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:03 AM

Well, it's more of that "singing the contents of the diary" (another Mudcatter's words, I think) stuff I can't relate to, and some coaching wouldn't hurt. There are some recording programs which allow you to isolate notes to be sure they're okay, and even fix them, assuming they're heard. Perfect performance still won't save mediocre songwriting, but even that can be addressed through workshops and private lessons.

Trouble is, nowadays, everybody can put this stuff out for the likes of us to review before paying their dues live or getting honest knowledgable advice.

With the likes of Bright Eyes selling records, it's no wonder...

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:00 AM

Eric the Red said,"If you're any good you don't need to plug yourself, other people will do it." While that is a nice thought it is not, strictly speaking, true. At the risk of immodesty, I happen to be pretty darned good, but I still have to go out and beat the bushes to get people into a club when I play. Word of mouth helps, but not as much as it used to. There are too many other things competing for that little bit of time and attention.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:32 AM

I have been hosting a folk music based radio program for the past 25 years. In the early days, it was fairly easy to pick LP's to play on the show - most were from established performers. I remember hanging out at Speakeasy, a folk club that used to be in the Village, and watching artists like Suzanne Vega, David Massengill and Rod MacDonald and WAITING for them to have an opportunity to record. The only way I could share their music was to have them perform it on the show.   Artists paid their dues and MOST albums that I received were from artists who I had seen perform, or at least knew of by reputation.

Today, I receive about 10 CD's a week - most from artists I've never heard of. Some are quite good, others are simply a waste of time and money.   This past summer I was the committee chairperson for the formal showcase at NERFA (North East Regional Folk Alliance).   Over 150 performers applied for the 12 slots we had available.   Frankly, the majority of submissions were "green" - artists with good intentions but not yet seasoned to the point where they could put on a reasonably cohesive performance.

One of the problems that I see is that there are fewer venues for musicians to try out their songs and develop as performers. I've noticed fewer open mics, venues that no longer have opening acts, and generally fewer audiences for this style of music.    I am fairly sure that many of the artists who record CD's have received very little feedback from their peers - or maybe they have received ONLY feedback from their immediate peers.   Artists should seek out objective opinions of their songs from people other than family members and close friends.

It is very simple to create a CD. But before spending time and money to create and duplicate CD's that you inflict on the public, make sure you are ready.

With that said, I do think we should encourage artists - especially young musicians, to keep at it. Folk music has developed a very stodgy and closed-door mentality as far as I'm concerned.   I've watched events at conferences and festivals where audiences and musicians will walk out - and even once close a door - on performers. Take a few minutes to give objective criticism when it is appropriate. Perhaps walking out is a crticism, but I do think we can be more constructive.   We need fewer curmudgeons and more mentors!

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 11:54 AM

I agree with your last remark, Ron. However, the thread title is "Review: New Singer songwriter", and there was no review. I dislike this kind of shit because it is at best disingenuous. The opening poster may be a fan, but he or she is a fan with no class. Starts with a lie and then seems to bugger off leaving poeple holding the bag. Piss on that, IMO.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:19 PM

Maybe so Peace. I often get requests for obscure artists or for a local artist that "appear" to come from someone connected to the musician. We can't be sure it is a lie, even though logic tells us so.

Still, even if it is a disingenuous opening, I don't think we should cloud the potential artistic merit. Sometimes there are managers or promoters who do the wrong thing, and I don't think it is fair for the artist to suffer.

In this case, I know nothing of the artist who this post is about. I'm not giving any review of this person, but I just wanted to may my comments in a general sort of way.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 04:04 PM

Well, I nearly liked it. I think the singer has a good strong voice. The faux-American accent puts me off a bit--if he's from Manchester why not sing Mancurian? A main criticism of your work (let's drop the pretense, hey? The medication is not really for a friend, is it? ;o) stems from the fact that you are young--you bugger--and the old gits on this forum are jealous. However, they're wise too. I say set aside the misery and sing something joyous, preferably with some tub-thumping beat behind it and let's see how you effect that. Oh, and don't give up. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 04:08 PM

Or sing Mancunian, even ...

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 04:58 PM

General opinion seems to be he ain't up to much.

And if 'New Fan' really was a fan how come he hasn't been heard from again?

The Juke Box Jury would vote this one a miss.

Ten points for blatant self-promotion.

Nil points for musical ability.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 08:34 PM

"I'd estimate his age to be somewhere between 19 and 22."

I think you are off in that estimate. One of his songs was written in 1993. I'd put the guy at 30 anyway.

There is promise in "Carry Me Home." It needs some rewrite. The writer also could do a bit more work on guitar--that is, practise for a few hours per day. However, for a newbie, y'aint a writeoff. IMO.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 03:23 AM

I'd agree with Bruce's comments. What baffles me here, is that this guy, who might become a songwriter, has already gathered over twenty posts. George Papavgeris, who definitely is a songwriter, has a thread about him with less than ten posts. It's a funny old world, ain't it?

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 04:24 AM

Ron has made a number of very good points. There is, as they say in mainstream showbiz, no place to go to be "bad" any more. Further with the currently available technologies there is, as far as many newer performers are concerned, no need for such a thing.
    Part of the "closed door" phenomenon which Ron described comes from when the market very nearly dried up entirely at the end of the 1970's. For our own creative (and, one must say, commercial) survival we circled the wagons. Some haven't looked outside the circle lately to discover that there is no more need for the circling. Even with the much larger market that we have now, the number of people trying to work in that marketplace has increased beyond imagination. Many feel threatened by all of the new talent.
    The good news is that there are just as many (one hopes more) people in folk music who remeber that "community" is the whole point of what we do, and that sharing the musical wealth is part and parcel of why we love folk music.
      The obvious solution is for those us who can and are willing to get out there to make contact with other musicians in your area. Start an open mic. Get a songwriter's group going. Haunt the open mics that DO exist and do what you can to set a good example. the young people that I encounter at my open mic (which I've been running for two wnd a half years) are almost always willing to learn. If you have the knowledge you have the responsibility to share it.
    We can sit here and gripe until the cows come home OR we can take positive action to solve the problem.


Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 08:04 AM

I think you are right too Steve. For radio presenters and bookers, the job has become more difficult. There are indeed fewer venues for performers to build up experience in and there are more performers able to make high quality (from a technical point of view) recordings. So I can appreciate Ron's difficulties in selecting material.
However, I do not pine for the days when the right to record a good album was basically the gift of the record companies. Digital technology has made it far cheaper to make high quality recordings and it has forced down the price of reproduction, effectively smashing the majors' monopoly on what could be released. I am very glad about that.
The main difficulty we have now, is being able to offer our work to people, who might be interested. Fortunately, there are the smaller radio stations, some of which are prepared to play those who do not have massive music industry support. It is up to us to support them to the hilt.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 09:30 AM

alananbit,
    The fact that ther are more posts here than on the George Papavgeris thread may owe less to the comparative of this work over his and more to the fact that the English language has more words to complain about things than to praise them. One hesitates to think of what that says about our culture.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 10:00 AM

Stephen, I think the reason there are more posts on this thread is because it led to an interesting discussion, not concerning the artist at all.   In fact, if you look at the title of the thread - it could be taken as a more generic topic - which is why I started reading.

One point I half-disagree with you on Stephen is the "drying up" of the scene in the late '70s.   Commercially, yes. I think the music may have gone a bit underground, but there was still a vibrant scene happening - at least in the NYC area where I live.   Fast Folk began as a musicians collective and there were many opportunities for artists to learn their craft.   

I think in the last ten years the venues dried up and the musical ghettos that existed in various spots started to move to the suburbs, so to speak.

Also to Alanabits point - I think I have a very happy dilemma when it comes to choosing music for my radio show.   While I have so many more artists to choose from, there are probably more GOOD artists that I wish to play and more GOOD songs being written today.   The pool got bigger!   With that comes a higher percentage of "bad" music, but the gems are still there.    The downside comes in developing artists.   Twenty years ago the music scenes were more localized then they are now. If you lived in the NYC area, about 90% of your gigs were booked within 50 miles from home. Today, with fewer local opportunites, and with the networking available from organizations like the Folk Alliance, I do see artists spreading out and traveling more.   Artists from across the country, and globe, will send me CD's.   

What it boils down to is a much larger pool of talent, and fewer opportunites to perform. That can change IF audiences support the music. Again, this is just my observation of what I see happening in my neck of the woods. I hope that there might be more opportunities in other parts of the country. I understand that New England has seen a number of new venues opening.   

Sorry for the thread drift, perhaps this should have been a separate thread for open discussion.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: GUEST,Impressed
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 11:09 AM

Whatever the thread drift this rather average singer-songwriter has brilliantly exploited mudcat to get some obviously-needed publicity for his cause.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 01:06 PM

I am not sure that he has. His name has not been mentioned for several posts now. A far more interesting discussion has emerged with Ron and Stephen than the one about the original poster!

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 01:21 PM

Anyone can create publicity, I give this guy or his fan credit for what he did. The material is what will determine if the publicity had any merit.

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 03:49 PM

Well, heck, I can't see any reason to complain about somebody asking people to take a listen. That seems to be a perfectly appropriate thing for Mudcat.
I did change the title to something a bit more specific, though.

-Joe Offer, traditionalist who usually doesn't bother to listen to singer-songwriters-
(and I didn't bother to listen this time, either)

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 01:42 AM

Being nothing if not a shameless self promoter (to the point of having turned it into a running gag on stage) I have to agree with Ron. One has to tip one's hat to the brass required to have started this thread in the first place. With any luck Menephese (There! I said his name. Are you happy now, alanabit?) has been reading the discussion in this thread and has learned a thing or two. I have. Joe is also quite right in that trying out new things is part of what this forum is for.

    On the subject of the clubs drying up at the end of the seventies; what happened on the east coast is very different from what happened in Chicago (which is where I was at the time). The venues were dropping like flies. The Barbarossa closed. Somebody Else's Troubles closed. The Earl of Oldtown closed. Holstien's tried and failed. The magazine Come For To Sing came and went. Chicago already had the the institution of the Oldtown School of Folk Music and, of course, WFMT's Midnight Special to, as it were, keep the ball in play. Many of the working folk musicians were forced out on the road, out into other kinds of entertainment work (I became one of the first "guitar acts" in Chicago area comedy clubs), or out of the buisness entirely (the latter being the most frequent result). In NY the musicians created Fast Folk thus taking matters into thier own hands. In Chicago we gathered at the gates of the Fortress (the Oldtown School) pleading for shelter against the gathering storm. Some were admitted. Some were not. Even in folk music "clout" means a lot in Chicago. So, my assesment of that period of time is based on what I saw at the time in Chicago. Obviously, not all regions responded in the same way.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes
From: alanabit
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 06:32 AM

As I said, from a musical point of view, I have been guilty of far worse. I really was very lucky in the early seventies, when I started out. There were people who were willing to give me a hearing and there were plenty of good old hands to watch, listen and learn from. The folk club scene was bigger then and it was not made up almost exclusively of older people.
I quite enjoyed reading Singing Referee (himself a very fine player and singer) offering encouragement to another young hopeful on the St. Albans thread. These young guys, we hope, will develop and one day bring more people into the clubs to keep them alive. This bloke Menephes has something going for him in the voice department and writers do improve.
Many years ago I lost a file of songs I had written. At the time, I thought it was a disaster. Now I hope fervently that no one ever found it!

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes
From: Peace
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 02:18 PM

At the age of 16 in NYC I sat before a fireplace and burned over 400 songs I'd written. I kept one stanza from one song and one melody from another. I have yet to do someting with that melody. I think I will over the next few months. Thanks for the reminder. The song was entitled "So Young". Wrote it when I was 13. The words were terrible but the melody was excellent. The thing about being 'pro' in music--all its aspects--is having the wherewithal to know when you've written someting really good. Of course, the converse holds equally true. If it sucks, ditch it. FAST!

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 02:19 PM

I know what you mean, alanabit. I'm similarly fortunate. I learned the craft in Chicago before they circled the wagons. If I'm being completely honest I have to admit to a similar lack of quality in my work when I started. The best way I can think of to describe the change is to point out that whenevr my father is in town he makes a point of seeing one of my shows. This is in martked contrast to what he had to say about my music when I was a teenager wwhich was, "Hey! If you going to sit in your room and bang on that stupid guitar for hours at a time could, at least, close the damned door?"
    As has been mentioned, we were working in a very different market place then. The GOOD gigs,the ones that you had to work your way up to, paid fifty dollars a night. If you could book three of those in a month you could pay rent on a studio apartment (in America that means one room, a stove,sink, and refrigerator crammed into a closet, and a bathroom). If you could book four or five in a month you were good for food and gasoline for a while. You could actually make a living playing clubs; not a very good one, but a living nonetheless. That just isn't possible any more. Even if you could get clubs to cough up that much money, these days, you'd still need a straight job just to cover apartment rent. Making any kind of commercial recording was absurdly expensive. You needed to make yourself a good enough musician, performer, songwriter, AND promoter to attract an established record company. Now your guitar is almost less expensive than recording and manufacturing a CD (and you could, without too much strain or expense, do the whole thing in your home). There used to be one or two venues in any given city at which almost all of the folkies gathered to listen, sing, swap songs or guitar licks, and do what is now called networking. For the most part venues like that no longer exist. Whether caused by technology's impact, our ever busier live, the aging of the audience, or all three, there are few, if any, central meeting places anymore. In the two and a half years that I've been running my open mic in Madison, WI I've found that, given the chance, young performers are eager and willing to learn the mechanics of the crafts of performing and songwriting.
That's why, as I mentioned in an earlier post, those of us who know thing need to find ways to make ourselves more available to pass along what we've learned. Think of it as a way to pay back the people who taught us.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 02:20 PM

Peace, well said.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Review: New Singer songwriter - Menephes
From: Peace
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 02:28 PM

Stephen: You have nailed it. So did Alan.

I guess we were fortunate in NYC. WE got COCKROACHES with the places we rented. I mean, with all those landlords not wanting ya to have pets, hey--in the Big Apple the pets CAME with the joint. I have always enjoyed the talk of professionals because they cut thru the BS and get to the crux. You guys have done that.