Origins: Thainig am post

Subject: Origins: Thainig am post
From: penguin
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 06:42 PM

I'm interested in the origins of a song "Thainig am post".
I find next to nothing on the Web and couldn't find it in mudcat cafe.

The song tells the tale of girls caught boiling potatoes. The setting is an island. The post arrives with some kind of official who confiscates the pot and takes it to the mainland. The pot will be returned at some point.

I believe the song is Scots Gaelic. The English translation I have seems very awkward if not outright incorrect.

I'm interested in the era of the tale, the larger historic setting, and the when the song was written. Who wrote the song?

I don't ask much. LOL

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:43 PM

Hi, Penguin - can you post what you have?
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:05 PM

Joe, this is in an album of Scottish Gaelic songs by Mary Smith, cd titled Sgiath Airgid. The translated song title is "The Postman Arrived."

I am inserting myself in here because I would like to get a couple of Scottish Gaelic cds, but they must have a booklet with both the Gaelic and full English translation, and something of the history of the song. The titles of this one looked interesting.

Can anyone make a recommendation?

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 03:24 PM

Look here:

http://www.tradtunes.com/album_details.php?album_id=2611

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 03:48 PM

When Alba gets back, she may know of some, Q, being a Glasgow grrrl and all.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 03:56 PM

No info there on cd booklet contents, just audio and the tracks for sale.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 07:17 PM

When asking a question, you should always tell the people you want help from what you already know. Don't make them waste their time guessing.

A few questions, then.

What is this unsatisfactory translation into English? Where did you get it? If you aren't even sure whether or not the song is in Scottish Gaelic, why do you think that the translation may be inaccurate? Perhaps you would quote it? Where did you hear the song? From whom? When? Presumably you don't have the cd, or you would have whatever copyright information it bears, and have told us.

Help us to help you.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 03:05 PM

Q, You could try "Ar Ca\nan 'S Ar Ceo\l" (Our Language and Our Music) by Gaelic Women (various artists), from Greentrax. The sleeve notes give the words with an English translation and some background.
   Also "Skye - the Island" by Arthur Cormack, Blair Douglas, Shona MacDonald and Cailean MacLean. The notes which come with the cassette give the words and an English translation. Possibly there would be more information with the CD.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 03:16 PM

What I meant to say before I hit the tab key and the message sent itself was that Temple Records have sent me words and translations for their CD's when requested.
   Skye - The Island is on the Macmeanmna label (no idea how you say that).

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 05:03 PM

Thanks, Hugh M. Much appreciated. I will look at those.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post - lyrics at end
From: penguin
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:12 PM

Thanks to all for answering this post. I'll definitely check out the links and CD's you suggested.

Here is what I know about the song. Nothing. A member of our singing group got it at a workshop. There is no attribution of any kind and when I asked her about it she knew nothing more. I was surprised when searching the Web yielded little.

I am guessing the song is Gaelic because the song refers to Alba and not the Irish Albain, na hAlban. I speak neither language so am a mockingbird when we sing in Irish and Gaelic. The translation bothers me because I believe there is more to the story in the lyrics than in the translation. It's like watching a movie with subtitles. If you understand the movie's language you realize how much the subtitles leave out and how awkward the subtitles' translation reads.

I really like the song. I love history and the story told intrigues me. To my modern thinking, confiscating a pot is silly. That is why I was interested in the historical context. If it was a communal pot and the girls were cooking seed potatoes in a place with little food, eating the seed potatoes could have resulted in a smaller harvest compounding the food shortage. This is pure speculation on my part.

Here are the lyrics I have:

Thainig am post is na portairen comhl'ris
A shealltain a nuas nuair a chual iad a bhoillich
Mar rin iad ach direadh a'chidh chon na Croice
Bhruich I na sia's chunnaic Niall I gan doirteadh

chorus:
Hug o tha mis 'air teireachdainn, Nighneagan og, tha'n comhnaidh goirid dhuibh, Loisg sibh an aodach toabh an teine aice, Hug o tha mis air teireachdainn

Bha dha agad fhein dhuibh 's bha te agam fhin dhuibh
'S bha te eile aig Eoin ged nach coir bhith 'ga innse
Mu dheidhinn na caileag chan aithleas mi fhin e
Gu robh iad 'sa choire ma cheileas tu 'Nill e

Thainig fios thugainn a Sasunn a dh'Alba
Feumas an fhirinn a sgriobhadh air falbh
Mu'n fhear leis an deas i cha mhair ach gach ainm aic
Theid I a'ghearasdan thairis air fairge

Bi i'san t-somaig gun teirig an geamhradh
Deireadh an earraich is toiseach an t-samhraidh
Gus am bi a'chuireachd ac' ullamh be'n call e
Leirgear air falbh ged tha h'ainm air a Ghalltachd

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:03 PM

Thank you for the additional information. That sort of thing really does help. Now we need to know what the translation into English said, and who ran the workshop, and where, and when. Don't forget to tell us what country this was in; it may all be relevant. If, for example, you live in Belgium, that might narrow down the possibilities.

I do know what you mean about subtitles, but you needn't be surprised to have found little information on the web. Someone has to put it there in the first place, after all. You have taken the first step toward doing that.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From:
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 05:35 PM

Penguin, the song IS in Scottish Gaelic, otherwise known as Gaidhlig. From the information that it was MAry Smith, I would have to say it is most likely Trad. 99% of Gaelic songs fall into the category of Author: Anonymous. Can't help it.

Did you say you have a translation? Would you post that translation? I will see how it compares. Will try to remember to bring in my Gaelic dictionary to start on a translation for comparison.

You are right in that many times a translation will leave something out. We'll see how literal yours is.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 10:47 PM

My forte is Irish Gaelic, but by the similarities of the words, in the chorus some young girl's clothes appear to be burning by the hearth. She lives close to the narrator. dare I do more damage.

Brian

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 10:50 AM

I don't know where you got the story about the boiling potatoes. I believe that some of the words are corrupted. I believe it is a song about people leaving the Gaelic-speaking areas to go to the English speaking Lowlands of Scotland. I see a capital I. I believe this refers to the Isle of Iona.

B

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 02:48 PM

I made an attempt to translate this. I am concerned there may be a verse missing and some of the words are misspelled. Of course the diacritical marks are missing. Does anyone have a grammatically cleaner version of this?

b

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:12 PM

I'm also inclined to think that there is a verse missing because I can't see the word for a potato (buntata) anywhere. I think the capital I is a mistake. Certainly "Eilean I" means Iona, but this doesn't make sense to me in this context.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:12 PM

I'm also inclined to think that there is a verse missing because I can't see the word for a potato (buntata) anywhere. I think the capital I is a mistake. Certainly "Eilean I" means Iona, but this doesn't make sense to me in this context.

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:28 PM

D'oh! sent it by mistake before I'd finished as usual!
Penguin, it would help if we could see the translation you already have. Many of the words have several meanings, which makes it difficult to translate for those of us who are not native speakers. If we could see the translation we could probably tell whether anything was missing from it.
Do you know who ran the workshop?
I did wonder whether the boiling of the potatoes could have been connected with the illicit production of whisky, in which case excisemen might have confiscated all the apparatus involved.
The second verse seems to refer to a number of articles and not just a missing pot:"Two of them were yours (singular)and one of them was mine. Another one belonged to Eoin...".

Subject: RE: Origins: Thainig am post
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:04 AM

Having looked again at the original posting I see it says that the pot will be returned, so maybe it wasn't the excisemen who took it!
    I have also looked again at the last verse. I can't understand the last line, but I think the first three lines are "it will be in the/their ??? until the ending of winter, the end of spring and the beginning of summer, until it is put in readiness for the woman who lost it".