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Could stars be sentient beings?!?
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Subject: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:13 AM After what happened last night, I think they very well might be! It's been so rainy and overcast here in Ontario for the last few weeks, I haven't been able to indulge myself with my usual few minutes or so of star-gazing before sleep. Last night however, the skies had cleared momentarily, so I got to spend some time watching lovely Venus rise in the west, Mars in the east, and wondering if that bright little sparkle beside 'him' might be Uranus ... The cat wanted out about 3 am, so I got up, went outside and sat there just spellbound by the luminous wonders of the heavens over my head. The Big Dipper changed positions since the last time I saw it - it's now right above my house, tilted as if to "spill" it's mysterious waters all over me... I was so thrilled with all that beauty, so pleased to be able to spend a bit of 'quality time' with my celestial friends again, that I found myself saying aloud "Oh Stars, thank you so VERY much for being here, you are SO BEAUTIFUL ... I LOVE YOU!!!!" (It's easy to do these things at 3 am when there's no one around to think you're crazy...) Well, as soon as I said that, suddenly this HUGE shooting star streaked by right over my head - in fact, right where my eyes were focussed at that moment! :-D What a delight! And what a coincidence!?! It was like "he" (or "she") wanted to show me I'd been been heard and appreciated!! What think ye? Could stars be sentient Beings after all? :-) |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:13 AM Oops forgot the BS tag .... sorry .... |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Mr Happy Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:15 AM Of course, you mean Folk Stars!! |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:16 AM LOL |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Dave Hanson Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:21 AM Don't talk so bloody daft. eric |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:28 AM I also love the name Eric. Named my son Eric, in fact! |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Ned Ludd Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:32 AM Are we talking Carthy, or Presley? |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Alice Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:32 AM "Could stars be sentient Beings after all?" No, but your experience shows that humans have vivid imaginations. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Amos Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:43 AM There's no reason a sentient being couldn't take up residence in a cloud of endlessly exploding gases in the middle of light-years of blackness for a while, for fun. But the basic answer is, IMHO, not bloody likely. A |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Snuffy Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:54 AM Definitely Eric Carthy. That Eric Presley was never really sentient. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 05 - 11:32 AM A few years back I was walking up a quiet country road in Greece with a friend. The sky was blackest black and the stars really put on a show that night. I said out loud, " I wish I could see a shooting star," and crash, bang, wallop what a picture, one exploded across the sky in front of our eyes. Coincidence or starry ears? |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 11:40 AM k here's an idea ... how about getting a representative sample of Catters together - say, 4 logical, feet-on-the-ground scientific souls like Wolfgang, 4 philosophical-quasi-spiritual types like Amos, 4 blustery nay-sayers like eric, and 4 star-struck, open-minded wonderers like myself. We all agree to spend a few minutes outside each night for 4 nights, gazing at the stars until we feel totally mesmerized by the mysterious beauty over our heads. Then, when those feelings are at a peak, we call out to the skies "Oh Stars, thank you for your beauty ... I LOVE YOU!!" (or something to that effect, although I suspect the "I love you" part might be essential). And keep accurate records of any observed "results". Then we tally up how many, if any, shooting stars or other celestial phenomena "answered" us back. The results just may indicate whether the ancient wise ones all over the globe have been correct in their beliefs about the stars once and for all! Any takers? Just sign up here. And rest assured that I, for one, promise not to ridicule anybody! |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 12:05 PM GUEST thank you for sharing that! The thrill is enough to last a lifetime, isn't it! Funny, as I read your post I just remembered an incident last summer with my son. My son Eric, in fact! We were outside one night having a smoke (tobacco, just to clarify that!). I asked "WHY do you always turn that outside light on when you have a smoke at night!" It annoys me, and as I went to shut it off he said "Well why do YOU like standing out here in the dark all the time?" I said "Because I love to look at the stars! See how beautiful they are! Look up ... that's Mars. There's Venus. That's Orion. And I see shooting stars too, sometimes a dozen or so a night." He snorted in ridicule, and as he turned his eyes skyward he said "So what? What's the big deal? They're always there, they're always the same, they ..." and at that very moment, a big sparkling shooting star whizzed by right over our heads, cutting off his words. Well, his jaw dropped open. So did mine! And after a minute or 2, when he could finally wrench his eyes away from that sparkling firmament, he told me "Y'know, I've never seen a shooting star before". :-) Hee hee! |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 05 - 12:15 PM I see a star, can that star see me? I shall remember, will it remember me? And if perchance, you see my star shall you also see me? |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Nov 05 - 12:22 PM Both stars and politicians are big balls of gas. Stars are bright and beautiful. Politicians are generally neither of these things. I know this fails to answer the question about stars being sentient, but so far, sentient politicians have been found to be extremely rare. Ruminations on a quiet morning. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 13 Nov 05 - 12:39 PM Snuffy - I beg to differ. Eric Pressley, fool for Wath-Upon-Dearne Morris is definitely sentient. I well recall the night he presented me with "Goosey the duck" a small blue plastic tankard duck. He had only just found out that afternoon that I was lacking a duck, and had found it in his garden. His lad had spent about an hour scrubbing the mud off and cleaning it up so that it was fit to wrap and present to me. No Eric is DEFINITELY a Star... Quack!! Geoff. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Metchosin Date: 13 Nov 05 - 12:52 PM The Leonid meteor shower will be peaking on the 17th, so if you have another clear night in the next few days and are paying attention after midnight, there is a pretty good chance the same thing might happen again. The operative word is paying attention. We have a myriad of things such as that happening all the time, but we're generally occupied with other stuff. Attaching any significance to it on a personal level has been ongoing since humankind first looked up. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Nov 05 - 01:43 PM Well...I think the whole Universe is, in a sense, a single sentient being, and that's it's all interrelating with itself in billions of ways all the time...like the cells in your body do. So your theory holds a certain amount of water, Daylia. People generally get what they expect, according to their beliefs. Accordingly, you all get...or at least perceive...pretty much what you have decided to. That means that everyone gets to enjoy being "right" almost constantly, which should be a great comfort to those of you who WANT to be right, shouldn't it? ;-) Modern physicists are now suggesting that the conscious expectations of a person conducting an experiment will affect the results of experiment, right down to the subatomic level. That's another way of saying what I am saying. Then there are the subconscious expectations of the person, which may sometimes conflict radically with their conscious ones. For instance, they may consciously want to win the jackpot when they go to the casino, but they may subconsciously believe that "I can never win, because the world's just not fair to me." Accordingly, they lose. Again and again and again...but they keep coming back, because their conscious mind is not in sync with their unconscious beliefs about themselves and life. That's what I call a sad situation, and it's a very common one. Yes, Daylia, I think you were generously gifted with an intelligent response from an intelligent Universe...just because your own consciousness was in sync at that time with the rest of the System. In other words, that shooting star was on its way already, regardless, and your spontaneous expression of love was perfectly meshed into the overall pattern of ongoing reality. That's how it works. Nothing exists in isolation...EXCEPT the human ego, which has brought about its own isolation from life because it isn't real. It just thinks it's real. It's an artificial mind construct. Your body is real, your soul is real, your ego is not. It's a part in a play that you made up. I also think that Wolfgang secretly wears frilly underwear with little pink flowers on it (that's a joke), and that he will totally disagree with me and vehemently deny my assertions. He's right in his world of thought, and I'm right in mine, and there's nothing either one of us can do about it. Didn't Dylan say that once? |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Snuffy Date: 13 Nov 05 - 01:51 PM He's rubbish at picking up sticks though, Geoff |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 13 Nov 05 - 01:53 PM True... |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 05 - 01:56 PM from my 'career' in Philosophy: "contiguity in time & space are not sufficient conditions to demonstrate causality" (that means, don't get carried away by coincidences) |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Nov 05 - 02:02 PM Causality can only be seen in the context of separation. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: dianavan Date: 13 Nov 05 - 02:19 PM Well, daylia, I believe that when we die we become stars. ...and yes, not only do we speak to the stars, sometimes they speak to us, too. Its just a matter of having the ears to listen. Some people just can't hear them. I think that is what Christians mean when they speak of heaven. So there you go. Everyone has their own beliefs. At least my beliefs don't hurt anyone and I don't expect anyone to believe as I do. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 05 - 02:24 PM One is curious about how such a belief is acquired, whether it hurts anyone or not. Did it just come to you one day? |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Amos Date: 13 Nov 05 - 02:47 PM It is not the case, however, that there is nothing can be done 'bout it. Thought responds to communication. Given the right communication, even the most entrenched calculations about rightness can be viewed and will change. The problem is the design of communication that could bring such a change in viewpoint about. A |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 03:12 PM The problem is the design of communication that could bring such a change in viewpoint about. True. And the willingness, desire to change one's viewpoint precedes even the wisest attempts at effective communication. "contiguity in time & space are not sufficient conditions to demonstrate causality" Agreed. My rule of thumb is that if something happens once or twice, it's still in the realm of coincidence. If it happens 3 times, there just may be something else at work worth investigating! Hence the experiment idea above. Bill, I think you're an ideal subject! Would you rather be placed in the "Wolgang" or "Amos" sample groups? Or would you prefer to use your philosophical expertise by providing a wonderfully objective and logical analysis of the results? ;-) Yes, Daylia, I think you were generously gifted with an intelligent response from an intelligent Universe...just because your own consciousness was in sync at that time with the rest of the System. In other words, that shooting star was on its way already, regardless, and your spontaneous expression of love was perfectly meshed into the overall pattern of ongoing reality. That's how it works. Nothing exists in isolation LH, thank you very much for this most scintillent of perspectives! |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 03:29 PM Oh, and in light of what Metchosin said, let's choose 4 nights when there are no "peak" meteor showers. And the 17th is only 4 nights away - so better sing up quick. It's now or later, folks! "The operative word is paying attention. We have a myriad of things such as that happening all the time, but we're generally occupied with other stuff. Attaching any significance to it on a personal level has been ongoing since humankind first looked up." Wise words, Metchosin. The question is, what benefits are gained by attaching personal significance to external events like these? Must be a few, it's such an enduringly popular pastime .... hmmmm ... |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 05 - 03:34 PM oh, I guess I'd better be in with Wolfgang, *daylia*..(I'd be commenting on the results anyway *grin*) " My rule of thumb is that if something happens once or twice, it's still in the realm of coincidence. If it happens 3 times, there just may be something else at work worth investigating!" 3 times in what time frame? With what parameters? How do you determine that each time it is the same 'something'? Can the event be recorded in any way so as to provide study independant of pure 'experience'? SO many things to be considered......especially in the jump from "...may be something else at work worth investigating!" to "I accept and believe". |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Metchosin Date: 13 Nov 05 - 03:38 PM I think scientists do what they do because they want to know and those with an artisitc bent do what they do because they really, really want to know. I also supect that our ability to comprehend what actually is going on only touches on 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 of 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 of what is out there and what is around us. We might from time to time have flashes of a small bit of it, but I suspect our comprehension of the whole ball of wax is fairly insignificant. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Kaleea Date: 13 Nov 05 - 03:40 PM Whether we believe or do not believe, such things are, to quote Mr. Spock, "Fascinating." Years back, in a University religion or philosophy class, I read a couple of books from the "Masters of the Far East" set in which the author (sorry, I can no longer recall the author's name) explained that some beings (of the non physical &/or earthly type) often appear as bright lights akin to stars as they move about from one place or planet to another. I also recall watching a TV interview with an astronaut a few years back, who had written a book about things/beings he had seen while in space. Sorry, I can no longer recall which astronaut. He talked about how other astronauts & cosmonauts had observed such things, and some-including himself-even took photos from the space capsules or shuttles, some of which were included in the book. I never got around to finding the book, but it sure would be an interesting read. If any of you know of the book title or author, I'd appreciate knowing. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Metchosin Date: 13 Nov 05 - 03:53 PM I'm also not so certain that we we came about in order to understand, but rather to appreciate and be amazed. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Joybell Date: 13 Nov 05 - 03:57 PM Some years ago we were at a folk festival way out in the middle of nowhere. It was one of those clear black moonless nights. A friend looked up and said, "Why don't they all blow out when the wind blows?" We hear him from time to time saying serious things on ABC radio and it takes me back. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: beardedbruce Date: 13 Nov 05 - 04:02 PM LH is probably right "whole Universe is, in a sense, a single sentient being, and that's it's all interrelating with itself in billions of ways all the time...like the cells in your body do." However, the nearest star ( other than the sun and any proto-stars in the Kuiper belt) is more than 4 LY away. so I doubt very much if THAT "shooting star" is a direct reply. There have been a few SF stories based on stars being intelligent beings. Not a point we can prove or disprove at the present time. The question is, if there are, would they consider US to be intelligent life? |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Nov 05 - 04:22 PM Hard to say... |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 05 - 04:32 PM Kaleea, I believe Buzz Aldrin was the astronaut who had some 'strange' experiences in space, and had some subsequent problems in dealing with them...I no longer remember the details. as to "...explained that some beings (of the non physical &/or earthly type) often appear as bright lights akin to stars as they move about from one place or planet to another." the real problem here is the weight of the word "explained", as if it were a fact to BE explained, rather than a personal opinion or theory. That is a pretty fanciful notion that depends on accepting a LOT of other ideas a priori. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: dianavan Date: 13 Nov 05 - 05:22 PM Bill D. - Yes, it did 'just come to me one day'. I once knew a couple who had apent their lives building wooden sailboats and living aboard. She died and he died a couple of years later. One night I was out under the stars, above a bay where they were often anchored, when I heard a 'hello'. I looked around then up. One star was twinkling brightly above the bay. I realized it was Alan's voice. Ever the skeptic I said, if it really is you, answer this question: Is Sherry there, too? He said, yes. Still skeptical, I asked if they could talk to each other. He said they didn't have to. All they had to do was shine down on us. It was an energizing experience, to say the least. I wasn't looking for that communication, it just happened. Sure, it was probably just an overactive imagination, but it was too real for me to dismiss. Since then, I have found that many ancient cultures held similar beliefs. I do not, however, run up and down streets, write books or knock on doors. Unless someone had actually experienced what I did, I wouldn't expect anyone else to believe it. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: *daylia* Date: 13 Nov 05 - 05:34 PM SO many things to be considered......especially in the jump from "...may be something else at work worth investigating!" to "I accept and believe". Well, I prefer to settle for no less than "I know" these days. LH says above that the event last night happened "... just because your own consciousness was in sync at that time with the rest of the System." From this viewpoint, any discussion of 'causality' is irrelevant. This idea works better, for me, than think somehow my words, thoughts and feelings "caused" a meteor to streak by! (if it was a meteor ... hmmm ... don't think I'm not paying attention dianavan, Kaleea et al) And here's another 'benefit' .... if I was "in synch" with the true 'Nature of the Universe' during that moment of spontaneous joy and love and appreciation, well .... what a comforting, uplifting thought that is! Enough to have me smiling more, at everyone in my life. Maybe even treating myself and everyone/thing around me better too. (For at least a little while anyway :-) |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Nov 05 - 05:38 PM Cool. ;-) I think we're all in sync all the time, but mostly we don't get to consciously experience it or enjoy it, because we're too busy thinking, talking, or distracting ourselves with something. (like this forum...ha!) |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Ebbie Date: 13 Nov 05 - 05:53 PM In the process of looking up Buzz Aldrin's experiences I came across a really strange site. It purports to be transcripts from various Astronaut to Mission Control conversations. I just got off the phone with a ham radio operator friend asking him if ham operators are discussing what is claimed on that web site. He says No, none that he's aware of and the only ham radio operator he knows who would believe it is Art Bell. (My friend and Bell have been acquaintances for a long time; were even housemates for several years.) Art Bell? |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 05 - 06:21 PM I read..(scanned quickly) that page, and I saw NOTHING in those highly edited and out-of-context transcripts that directly state that astronauts saw or photographed The "will to believe" works overtime sometimes! |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Metchosin Date: 13 Nov 05 - 06:41 PM For far too many years I spent my working time with my face propped up against a microscope looking at worms. From time to time my mind drifted, as it sometimes does, because it can be a bit boring staring at worms. On those occasions, I sometimes thought that, here I am staring down at a mass of life that has realatively little, in the way of senses, of which I'm aware, to even notice I'm observing them. They're like that, worms are. But, one careless flick of a needle or a little excessive heat or the flush of some tapwater and their tiny world was forever altered or ended. I figured I shared something with these wiggly threads of life, including a few bits of DNA and there could be a lesson in humility for me here. The thing I shared with them was the precious gift of life and the incapacity to truly comprehend anything beyond the limitations of my own senses......all 6 or more, if I included my imagination. LOL I figured I could be on someone's or something's petrie dish, but maybe not, because that was within my capacity to imagine. And then after that, I went and ate my lunch because I figured I'd been staring at worms too long. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Nov 05 - 08:46 PM Could stars be sentient beings?!? OK! Your request is approved. ~God's Administrative Assistant (Ask Karen) |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Kaleea Date: 13 Nov 05 - 09:21 PM Thanks, Bill. Re the Masters of the Far East, there were many other things which were "explained" that were out there--waaaaayyy out there! I'm sure that the author accepted all the things he "explained" as fact. I never read the entire set of books, just the first 3, I think. I've also heard ministers of many religious beliefs "explain" things during their services. Various religions are endlessly fascinating to me, but that does not mean that I accept the beliefs as my own. When I first saw the thread title, I thought the term "star" might be referring to a "star" of the movie or tv type. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Peace Date: 13 Nov 05 - 09:30 PM However, because I don't know what constitutes 'intelligence'--that is, I don't know 'how ' intelligence is made, comes about, develops, starts, etc--I think the question is very beautiful. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Azizi Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:24 PM Count me in the *daylia* group. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:30 PM gotcha! *smile* Azizi - √ *daylia* - √ dianavan - √ Little Hawk - √ ok? any others? Amos? hard to tell... |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Peace Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:35 PM Me too. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:38 PM hmmm... ok, Peace - √ |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: Peace Date: 13 Nov 05 - 10:41 PM Here's why: "The divine beauty Of heaven and earth! All creation, Members of One family." That thought is from Morihei Ueshiba. |
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Subject: RE: Could stars be sentient beings?!? From: John O'L Date: 13 Nov 05 - 11:38 PM It's a pretty reckless suggestion that everything in the universe must conform to the rules of human logic. Especially when the vast majority of what there is is still unknown. Or should that be Western European human logic? |
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