Sheetmusic

Subject: Sheetmusic
From: pkferret
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 06:22 PM

Is there a good site to find free sheetmusic of folk tunes? I am taking vocal lessons and my voice teacher wanted to know if I sheetmusic of some of the songs I sing with our Irish group. I didn't have much luck on the tune I searched ("One I Love" by Jean Ritchie) Didn't know if such things were available?

Thanks

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 06:49 PM

For the dt databse, the largest collection by far, try. Yet Another Digital Tradition

We, like others are also trying to produce music and my latest experimental varient of our access to the database is
here where an attempt is made to generate a graphic for each song when the page is opened.

It is also possible to see music in other ways, eg. the Mudcat version of the dt does provide a MIDI and software that can make a fair stab (converting from MIDI to notation is not the easiest of tasks as MIDI can hold timings impossible to notate) at turning that into sheet music exists.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 06:56 PM

There is a great deal available, of varying quality. Sometimes it's worth paying a little in order to get what you really want, of course; "free" is not always good. Rather than giving you a general answer that may not be relevant, I'd ask what sort of songs you're looking for? Name a few?

As for Jean Ritchie's One, I love, the tune was posted here in abc format in thread One i love/Third Carol. I found it through the Mudcat's onsite search engine ("Lyrics and Knowledge Search": see the top of every page here). ABC can be converted to staff notation at http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html.

Presumably you're using the term "Irish" pretty loosely if you sing Jean's song, so "Irish music" resources, as such, may not be quite what you're looking for.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 06:58 PM

the database

I mean our collection there - nowhere near as large as the dt.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 07:29 PM

Re Concertina.net, it niggles me somewhat to see that from the documentation it appears he still runs abc2ps. There are subtle differences between the way w: are handled and abcm2ps is the closest to anything we have in ways of abc standards. The occasions may be rare but a correct abc from folkinfo can look wrong on concertina.net but with high recomendations we at folkinfo can be thought to be at fault for aiming closer to current "standards".

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 08:21 PM

True; but it's a handy and readily available conversion routine. Would your server be up to the potential traffic involved in offering a more up-to-date facility at some point?

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 08:36 PM

I don't know Malcolm. We are quiet but I don't have bandwidth (typical 512/256 upload home user set up) Server, certainly yes it's idle a lot (and AMD 64 3000+ IGB Ram, ...) is a pretty capable beasty. Idealy co location I guess but I drift... and am not serioously thing that way.

Wish the guy at concertina.net could be persuaded (and may well be receptive - it's a good site...) in honesty. It is a good thing overall and in fairness to him (now I think about it) I have not contacted him with a suggestion that may be benificial to all. Just been grumbling...

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: pkferret
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 10:20 PM

The thing is, I have the words, I know how the songs go, but my vocal teacher is from a "classical" background and needs piano score to do anything.
One of the "trad." tunes I was looking for is Katy Cruel and maybe John of Dreams. I think the second one is considered "trad." at this point.? I know One I Love is under copyright, and Early (by Greg Brown), so I wasn't sure if I could still find something. I know I can get some fiddle tunes on sharing web-site, but I wasn't sure about vocals.

If I buy music, it might be for a totally different song that has a similar name, or it only comes in a book, that's not just a few dollars.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 10:45 PM

John o' Dreams is modern and most certainly in copyright; though if I remember correctly the tune was borrowed from a classical source. Look for the song via the search engine here; full details have been posted in the past, probably several times.

Piano scores may not exist for many of the songs you want (particularly the modern ones); is your teacher really unable to improvise a simple accompaniment to a written melody line?

Which form of Katy Cruel did you have in mind? It's the only traditional song you've mentioned so far: there are a good few versions of it, and quite a lot of performers have recorded arrangements of them. It pays to be clear and specific when asking questions, or you may not get the answers you wanted.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 10:48 PM

I use this site for traditional music (traditional Finnish in my case). I listen to the midi, and then if I determine that the piece I've listened to is something I want, I click on "gif" and then print out the music from the page that shows up. Here's a sample (using "Finland" as my search parameter, and picking one of my favorite pieces as a sample gif)...

Here's the JC's Tunefinder site:

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/FindTune.html

Here's the Finland search in JC's:

href="http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/TuneFind?P=Finland&m=title&M=&L=&K=&V=4&W=wide&limit=100&thresh=5&V=1&find=FIND

Here's the gif for the sheet music for Aanisen aallot:

Anisen aallot

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 11:04 PM

STYLE? KEY???? RANGE???? GENRE???? WHY????

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 11:07 PM

In today's world of software....it is quickly available to transpose sheet-music, or ABC, or Midi, into ANY key....we can even place your recording into Paul Simon's voice, London, August 2004.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 01:38 AM

Isn't John of Dreams' tune based on Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto no. 6?

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Liath
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 04:16 AM

I don't think you'll have any luck finding free sheet music arranged for piano. It's just not worth anyone's while to produce it.

Most of the free stuff does have guitar chords, so it would be really easy to improvise simple countermelodies and harmonies. That's what I tend to do when accompanying myself on harp. In every case, the simpler the accompaniment the better - after all, its about complementing the voice, not competing with it ;-)

For traditional stuff, look out for old song books in charity shops. These usually have piano arrangements. I've got stacks that I've picked up over the years. (Having said that, the piano arrangements are mostly awful and totally inappropriate, but hey!)

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: treewind
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 06:10 AM

Jon, where is your site? folkinfo.net seems to take me to a site that's in a Language I can't identify (Turkish?)

Anyway, re: online conversion of ABC to graphices using amcm2ps, I'd be interested in having a go at that. I've also only got consumer-grade ADSL; though there's server is on 24/7 the web server is firewalled off because I haven't set up any public applications on it yet - but my ISP gives me a shell account on their GCI machine and I could probably knock together a script for an online tune-a-tron with proper ABC+ compliance

(sorry for the off topic technical intrusion - I'd PM you if I could)

Anahata

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 06:22 AM

That's John's Turkish cousin... sells second hand 'Adult Products'

try folkinfo.org

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: treewind
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 06:28 AM

Thanks - I found it anyway, by referring to the earlier link, and I've posted a message there. Haven't logged in to Jon's site for years...

Anahata

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 10:05 AM

In case you might miss it, Anhata, I have replied at folkinfo and additionaly sent you some of my (for whatever it' worth) code via PM (the code I use for a pdf) in case it helps.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: pkferret
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 07:01 PM

You know, every time I try to download a Midi file it doesn't seem to work because my husband has Musicmatch Jukebox as the default player, and it doesn't play midi's. I also can't seem to get the file transfered to Window's media player.

The whole gist of my query was so that these Irish / Folk songs, that I sing in our Irish band, can be worked on with this Classic Voice teacher. No improvisation with Classical Voice training. There aren't any voice teacher's in my area who work with adults, and work on anything other than Classical Training. I was hoping, however, that I could use some of what he is teaching me, to help with my voice at gigs. We had some negative feedback from a particular bar. We're not sure if it's because my voice is high, or because of the quality of it. So I thought I could work on the latter with a semi-professional.

Anybody have any suggestions about my inability to play midi's, let me know. I am thoroughly frustrated.

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Kaleea
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 07:58 PM

You have an educator, with a good understanding of what "literature" to teach. Some of the best "Music Literature" is folk Music. Keep singing those folk songs.

And once again, a folk song magically becomes "proper literature."
(Kaleea summons her uppity teacher impersonation):
"An art Song! Ah, how I do love an original Vaughn Williams!"

   snicker, snicker, snicker

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 04:08 AM

pkferret -

Assuming you're using a recent Windows:

Open Windows Explorer. (Usually "Start | Programs | Accessories")

On the top toolbar, click "Tools"

On the scroll that rolls down, click folder options.

In the window that opens, select the "File Types" tab at the top.

In the list of files, scroll down until you find .mid and/or .midi. It should tell you what program is set to play midi files. If it's not the right one, click on the "mid" filetype and then on the "Change" button, and it will give you a list of available programs. Select one that can play midis, and then click "OK" until all the windows are closed. (Windows Media Player is a fairly good default midi player.)

The program you select should open and play whenever you "open" a midi file.

John

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Anglo
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 03:24 AM

John of Dreams was written by Bill Caddick, who used a theme from Tchaikowsky's 6th symphony. Certainly in copyright.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: pkferret
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:43 AM

Thanks everyone.   By the way, I finally got the midi's to play and the version I was finding of Katy Cruel is NOTHING like the one I sing.

See Ya

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 12:40 PM

Why don't you just use the songs your teacher is used to for your lessons and then carry the techniques you learn over to your folk songs? The things you will learn - tone, breath control, care of your voice, should be applicable to any kind of respectable singing.

By "respectable singing" I mean singing which does not destroy the voice in order to earn a quick buck. There are many kinds of respectable singing.

Are you a soprano or tenor? Go to your public library and check the songbooks. The 784's, I believe. William Cole's collections come to mind.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: pkferret
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 06:44 PM

Thanks again. I am still continuing with this voice teacher for now.

I was in several kinds of chorus' when I was in School, but it's been a long time. I am a soprano, unfortunately, and high voice are only good, I guess, if they are Crystal Clear.

I don't know if I'll ever get much better at my age (40s), but he is working at things a whole different way than we did in school. He actually did find I song, Turtle Dove, that has appalachian roots.

His philosphy is that by working at my upper range, which I haven't hit in years, it will help the middle.

I had already planned that I would try to sing his way in lessons, and only apply what helps to the band.

Thanks again!!

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 01:39 PM

This isn't completely folk music, but I'm helping my stepson research Waldteufel's "Skaters' Waltz" today, and came across 8notes.com. It does claim to have "sheet" music for 3995 folk songs.
Anybody have experience with 8notes? Seems like a very useful site to me - especially for parents working with their children on music assignments.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: MMario
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 01:42 PM

Joe - did you notice where they got thier 3995 folk songs?

This collection of almost 4000 songs is a copy of the 'Digital Tradition Folk Song Database, compiled by the good folk at mudcat.org. The songs have been collected over more than 10 years by Dick Greenhaus and friends.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 01:52 PM

At least they credit the source. Before now I have found sites which have lifted whole pages from elsewhere, totally unchanged apart from the removal of any branding.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 01:52 PM

I just noticed that now, MMario. I was about to add to my post, and I see that you beat me to the punch. The "sheet music" display is in a very usable format - with Firefox, I can right-click on the notation display and choose "view image." Then I can go to the "file" menu and choose to "print" the image as sheet music, with words. Sheet music from the Digital Tradition in about four clicks. It's nice that they give credit to Dick Greenhaus and Mudcat - Dick has always said that the DT lyrics and tunes are free to anyone who wants to use them in any way - and this is a very good way to put them to use.
Great find, eh???
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: MMario
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 01:54 PM

yup - have added it to my list of favorites along with 'Yet another Digital Tradition' for when people want the sheet music.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: pavane
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:52 PM

My program HARMONY can display piano-style scores from abc, but you have to find the tune first! It can also import simple MIDI, with the usual restrictions already mentioned, and will automatically add chords to a melody. These would be easily playable on a piano, but I doubt whether they would impress a clasically trained musician!!!

Download a free trial from
http://www.greenhedges.com

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: samirich
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:17 PM

But will your software add the right chords.

Notation Machine will convert a midi file to sheet music. The more complicated the accompaniment, the more complicated the sheet music.

I myself prefer the lead sheet approach, give me the melody and words and guitar chords and I will fake my way through it pretty quickly.

For musical notation. I prefer Musicease. It simply does everything I have asked it to do and has not broken me. They also have a process which you can scan music into and convert it to musicease and then you can transpose however you like.

Happy hunting. The most expensive is not always the best, nor usually the free stuff.

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Gedpipes
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:35 PM

Try these links my friends and pk ferret

http://www.norbeck.nu/abc/

http://www.ceolas.org/pub/tunes/tunes.pdf/SessionTunes.pdf

Blue skies
Ged

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: Gedpipes
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:38 PM

ps sorry to read you are a frustrated pkferrett
Blue skies
Ged

Subject: RE: Sheetmusic
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 02:34 PM

Define the 'right' chords? There are often many ways to harmonise one melody, and all may be 'right'