Folklore: Are bright colors evil?

Subject: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 03:30 PM

Folklore: bright colors evil?

When I was a kid and my mother took me shopping for clothes, if I showed a preference for a brightly-colored shirt or jacket, she would frown and say, "That's kinda loud," and try to steer me toward something more subdued. She never explained; it just seemed to be a personal preference of hers.

I don't know if this is relevant, but I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, in the 1950s. My parents had grown up on farms in Arkansas and Kentucky.

Today I was talking with a coworker here in Minnesota. She is maybe 20 years younger than I. She told of when she was a kid and lived in the South for a time. They attended a Southern Baptist church there. She said her mother would bring her to church dressed in bright colored clothes, and they got frowns of disapproval from the parishioners.

It's been a long time since I have heard of anyone's clothes being criticized for being too "loud." I had forgotten about it. It got me thinking about the significance of color. Is this just a matter of personal preference, or a matter of certain colors going in and out of style, or is there something deeper than that? On some level, do people think bright colors are evil?

If so, is this feeling more prevalent in the South? Has it disappeared, or do people still feel this way?

Could this preference be a vestige of an earlier time, when, say, red was reserved for royalty and forbidden to commoners? Or was red associated with the devil?

Tales like "Little Red Riding Hood" don't seem to suggest that red was inappropriate for children, do they? Or was wearing red what got her into trouble?

I know there are folk songs that mention people being dressed in certain colors. "Who's that yonder dressed in red?" etc. Do these songs date from a time when certain colors had a significance that we may have forgotten today?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: MMario
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 03:38 PM

well - the song probably referes to red as being the color of martyrs, but that's beside the point.

I have (and as recently as last weekend) still heard references to peoples clothing being "loud" - sometimes it is due to pattern, sometimes due to shades of colour, sometimes due to combinations.

but colour also comes and goes in fashions.


I remember an old book I read about homesteading after the revolutionary war - one of the women was ostrasized due to her wearing a bright orange flounced silk petticoat. (though one women admitted it was because a) she couldn't afford to wear one herself and b) the bright colour made the men look even if they weren't truly interested - so it was basically jealousy) - anyway the petticoat and woman were denounced as evil - until they needed something that couldn't be duplicated easily to serve as "money" after the local banker embezzled all their funds - and piece of the petticoat became their new "coins"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 04:01 PM

Some of it is culture based. The Puritan/Calvinistic idea of being 'soberly dressed' in order to reflect the seriousness of life, i.e. the rejection of frivolity so prevalent in 'the world' is a big part of some cultures and religions based on that culture or vice versa.

I grew up Amish. In western USA, the Amish were far more 'liberal' than were the Amish in the south. When my family moved there in 1949, my mother continued making her daughters' dresses of pastel colors, the colors of flowers: pink, yellow, green, pale blue, etc- in Virginia the prevailing colors and shades were light and dark gray, black and deep blue. Bright blue (Royal Blue) was a popular color for a bride on her wedding day.

I suppose her defiance made our assimilation into the church more difficult. My mother told me years later that after my family moved away she had written the Bishop of the Virginia church apologizing for her actions, reasoning that if she wanted to be a member of that church she should have followed its preferences and traditions.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:39 PM

Well I think in this day and age just about anything goes, but we live in a time where it's much more acceptable to call attention to yourself or stand out in a crowd - it's encouraged, really.   In earlier times, especially with some religious groups, wearing bright colors might have been perceived as an egotistical thing to do. Someone who dressed in bright colors wouldn't have been considered "humble" or "modest" which was what one was supposed to be. That may be where the main objection to bright colors would have come from.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:42 PM

Little Richard allegedly gave Jimi Hendrix the heave-ho for daring to dress more brightly than he (brightlier than thou?)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Les B
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 06:03 PM

Seems like I heard in an anthropology class that cultures nearer the equator had a propensity for brigher colors than those toward the poles. Something to do with the brightness/amount of sunshine or apparent contrast.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Les B
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 06:04 PM

That should be brighTer ,,,:0

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 08:15 PM

One explanation for the number of traditional African American songs about religious people dressed in red {such as "whose that yonder dressed in red/must be the people that Moses led"} is the association of West African deities with colors.

See this online passage:

"Shango
by Micha F. Lindemans
The god of thunder and the ancestor of the Yoruba people of Nigeria. He is the son of Yemaja the mother goddess and protector of birth. Shango (Xango) has three wives: Oya, who stole Shango's secrets of magic; Oschun, the river goddess who is Shango's favorite because of her culinary abilities; and Oba, who tried to win his love by offering her ear for him to eat. He sent her away in anger and she became the river Oba, which is very turbulent where it meets the river Oschun.
Shango is portrayed with a double axe on his head (the symbol of thunder), with six eyes and sometimes with three heads. His symbolic animal is the ram, and his favorite colors are red and white, which are regarded as being holy. In Brazil, Shango is worshipped as a thunder and weather god by the Umbandists. In Santeria, Shango (Chango) is the equivalent of the Catholic saint St. Barbara.

Shango was once the fourth king of Yoruba, immortalized after death."

Source: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/s/shango.html

****

Eventually, "red" became a color of the lush life, partying, easy women, "red light district" houses of prostitution. Maybe this is a secular extension of "red" being associated with blood and blood being associated with life & vitality.

As an example of the use of a woman wearing a red dress to go out partying, I've always taken a fancy to this song {credited to Johnny Hallyday on this website: http://www.frmusique.ru/texts/h/hallyday_johnny/hiheelsneakers.htm

[But Hallyday wasn't who recorded this song, was he?]


Put on your red dress baby
Cause we're going out tonight
Put on your red dress baby
Cause we're going out tonight
Better wear some boxing gloves baby
In case some fool might wanna fight

Put on your hi-heel sneakers baby
Wear your wig hat on your head
Put on your hi-heel sneakers baby
Wear your wig hat on your head
Well I'm pretty sure now baby
But I know you gonna knock him dead

Put on your red dress baby
Cause we're going out tonight
Put on your red dress baby
Cause we're going out tonight
Better wear some boxing gloves baby
In case some fool might wanna fight

Put on your hi-heel sneakers baby
Cause we're going out tonight
Put on your hi-heel sneakers baby
Cause we're going out tonight
Well I'm pretty sure now baby
But I know you gonna knock him dead

-snip-

****

In the 1950s, middle class African American people were generally socialized to not draw any public attention to themselves. That included not wearing "loud" clothes, especially clothes that were red. Red was certainly not a color men would even think about wearing-unless the man was a pimp..And a woman who wore a red dress was labeled "fast".

Those days are largely gone now. I'm not even sure that most Black people [middle class or otherwise] would describe the color "red" as being "loud". And I certainly don't think we would consider it to be "evil."   

I believe that many African Americans associate the color "red" with the Crips gang, and with Valentine's day, and with Christmas {red and green} and with the African American flag {red, black, and green}. Coming full circle, the meaning of red in that flag is [the] blood [of our ancestors].

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: JennyO
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 08:28 PM

I've never heard it clearly said that bright colours are evil, but I suspect it's the thing that's been mentioned about good Christians being supposed to modest and sober, and the idea that "loose women" "flaunt themselves" in "loud clothing". That was the feeling I picked up from my grandparents.

My mother told me that my grandfather had an aversion to green and didn't want any women in his family to wear it. She thought he considered it unlucky, but I guessed it was maybe more to do with it being one of the suffragette colours, along with purple. Come to think of it, I never saw them wearing purple, either.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 09:34 PM

Yeah, blame the Christians-- again!

"Loud" merely equals "tacky" in terms of the fashion sense of the day and time of the person using the term. Like we'd say, these days, even more rudely, "trailer trash." It's a class thing, not a religion thing. "Loud" or "tacky" do not mean "evil," they mean.... garish.

~S~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Bard Judith
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 09:41 PM

GREEN:

In Anglo-Euro cultures, green has a long tradition (from medieval Britain) of being associated with the fey, magical, or supernatural realms. Women dressed in green were Sidhe, elves, faeries... green eyes were associated with were-cats or were-foxes... green clothing was worn by fairy folk (such as leprechauns) or outlaws (Robin Hood and his band) and so on. (Side note: Green eyes are still considered mysterious, seductive, and more appealing than the commoner brown or blue!)

Overall, green was not to be trusted - not exactly evil, but certainly not suggestive of either sacred purity or secular mundanity!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:43 PM

Susan, there are a lot of religions besides Christianity that have 'evil' in their lexicon.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:53 PM

Yeah, I know, but read the posts preceding mine, Eb.

~S~

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:57 PM

This story by Hans Christian Anderson, "The Red Shoes", is a story which uses the colour red as a symbol for the dangerous power of boldness in a girl - the red shoes make her dance and dance, and they exert a strange influence over her.

Clarissa Pinkola Estes in her book Women Who Run With the Wolves discussed this story as an analogy for obsessive attractions such as addictions that lead to excessive & compulsive behaviors.


freda

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: JennyO
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 11:30 PM

Susan, I can only speak on what I observed in MY family. A lot of the rels were serious fundamentalist bible-bashing "Christians". I know there are many shades of Christianity, and these were the worst kind. I'm sure you're not - in fact, I have a friend who is a minister, and she is a really nice person - not at all judgmental like these were.

I can tell you, you didn't want to be growing up in that family. Many members of it, including me eventually, were ostracized as evil. My aunt was given the treatment because she smoked, drank wine, and 'wore pants' (they thought women should wear dresses).

After Uncle Jack thundered at her "God has turned his back on you!", she did her best to avoid them - she didn't mind being cut out of that family at all!

After my mother died and cut me out of her will, and they took legal action against me to stop me getting anything, I never had anything more to do with them either. I kept in contact with my aunt till she died, and other than that, the only family member I see is my brother in France, who was also cut off, and of course my children.

It was their long list of supposedly evil things and people, and the judgmental attitude, that drove me away from the church. I'm very happily pagan now, and have friends of all different beliefs and religions. I would keep away from any kind of fanatic though. Such people are dangerous in my opinion.

In the huge laundry list of what some people consider evil, bright colours is only one of many things to be judged that way.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: CapriUni
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 01:20 AM

WYSIWYG: Yeah, blame the Christians-- again!

Okay, admittedly, I am not Christian. But I don't think anyone here is "blaming" Christians, in general. The original poster talked about the reactions of the people in the congregation of his childhood church, which, like most congregations in this country, was (is) Christain.

And the question was raised about whether this just happened to be local taste, or had roots in the religious folk belief of the people.

And I once read somewhere that green's association with the Fair People is at the root of the actors' superstition that it's unlucky to wear green on stage -- the People get jealous of mere mortals wearing Their color, and will do whatever They can to sabotage the performance (They also get very protective of anyone that others seem to wish harm to, hence the "break a leg" comment being good luck before an actor goes on stage.

Red and white are also colors associated with the ancient Irish goddesses, and the Otherworld.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: JennieG
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 01:32 AM

When I was growing up in a country town, I remember my mother telling me that "only fast women wore red".

Took me until just a few years ago to wear red myself!

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 09:18 AM

In my family the saying was "blue and green should never be seen".
I took it to mean that you shouldn't wear them together.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colours evil?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 07:16 AM

Well JennieG

The older you get, the faster you get!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 08:45 AM

Here's another example from African & African Diaspora cultures:

The West African/Caribbean/South African diety-Oshun

"In Santeria, Oshun (known as Oxum in Brazil) is the Orisha who rules the 'sweet' waters- rivers, brooks, and streams. Oshun is closely related to Yemaya, and their aspects sometimes overlap. She is the goddess of love, passion, and sensuality, as well as money and prosperity. Her preferred offerings are honey, copper jewelry or coins (usually in multiples of five). She is most often associated with St. Cecilia, and in Lukumi, she is Our Lady of La Caridad del Cobre, the protectress of Cuba. Her colors are yellow and gold.
In Vodoun, Oshun is known as Erzulie. Erzulie's colors are shades of pink. While Erzulie and Ochun are very much alike, Erzulie has a vengeful, implacable aspect when angered. Her aspect Erzulie Dantor is a fierce protector of women, an avenger of domestic violence, and a patron of lesbians".

-snip-
source:
About Oshun

A Drawing of Oshun is found by clicking this link.

Note that in that drawing Oshun is wearing a reddish color piece of material around her waist. Also note that Oshun was drawn holding and looking into a hand mirror, admiring herself. This is the way that she is usually depicted.

My point in sharing this information is that it seems to me that Osun/Oshun/Erzulie may have helped shape American Black folks' images of fast, vain, vengeful women.

The history of slavery and the post-slavery history documents that traditional West African culture {Osun-Yoruba [Nigeria, West Africa] took root and spread throughout parts of the Caribbean, USA, Brazil, and other parts of South America. I wonder if anyone has done any research on the influence of the colors associated with Yoruba orisas such as Osun [and Sango, even though he is a male diety] on the stereotypes associated with the American fast woman.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 09:09 AM

Just for the record, here's some information about Yemaya, who is mentioned in the excerpt about Oshun:

"Yemaya is the Yoruban Orisha or Goddess of the living Ocean, considered the Mother of All. She is the source of all the waters, including the rivers of Western Africa, especially the River Ogun. Her name is a contraction of Yey Omo Eja, which means "Mother Whose Children are the Fish". As all life is thought to have begun in the Sea, all life is held to have begun with Yemaya. She is motherly and strongly protective, and cares deeply for all Her children, comforting them and cleansing them of sorrow. She is said to be able to cure infertility in women, and cowrie shells represent Her wealth. She does not easily lose Her temper, but when angered She can be quite destructive and violent, as the Sea in a storm.

Yemaya was brought to the New World with the African diaspora and She is now worshipped in many cultures besides Her original Africa. In Brazilian Candomblé, where She is known as Yemanja or Imanje, She is the Sea Mother who brings fish to the fishermen, and the crescent moon is Her sign. As Yemanja Afodo, also of Brazil, She protects boats travelling on the Sea and grants safe passage.

In Haitian Vodou She is worshipped as a Moon-goddess, and is believed to protect mothers and their children. She is associated with the mermaid-spirits of Lasirenn (Herself a form of Erzulie) who brings seduction and wealth, and Labalenn, Her sister the whale.

Yemaya rules over the surface of the ocean, where life is concentrated. She is associated with the Orisha Olokin (who is variously described as female, male, or hermaphrodite) who represents the depths of the Ocean and the unconscious, and together They form a balance. She is the sister and wife of Aganju, the god of the soil, and the mother of Oya, goddess of the winds.

Our Lady of Regla in Brazil may be linked to Her, and She is equated elsewhere in the Americas with the Virgin Mary as the Great Mother. In parts of Brazil She is honored as the Ocean Goddess at the summer solstice, while in the north east of the country Her festival is held on February 2nd (a day that is also associated with Her daughter Oya, as well as being the feast day of the Celtic Bride), with offerings of blue and white flowers cast into the Sea.

Yemaya's colors are blue and white, and She is said to wear a dress with seven skirts that represent the seven seas. Sacred to Her are peacocks, with their beautiful blue/green iridescence, and ducks. The number seven is Hers, also for the seven seas.

Alternate spellings: Yemanja, Yemojá, Yemonja, Yemalla, Yemana, Ymoja, Iamanje, Iemonja, Imanje"

Source: Yemaya

Note: In other sources I've read, Yemaya is believed to also be associated with the Egyptian diety Isis.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 02:43 PM

Mo The Caller:
As I have heard it:
"Blue and green should never be seen,
without a colour in between"

The two colours adjacent (or at least some shades) will often clash.

Similar restictions are commonplace in heraldry, where (IIRC) a colour should not be placed on another colour, nor a metal on another metal.

CHEERS

Nigel

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: GUEST,A Christian
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 05:06 PM

Talkin' as a Christian here. Colours in themselves were provided by God so they are not in essence bad. Some people use colours. I mean they sure use colours to enhance their looks, or look, or, you guess for yourself. Do you dress in a colourful way to attract someone of the opposite sex/ Are you a peacock (or a peahen). Do you use colours to get what you want? and is what you want good? I mean surely good.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 05:25 PM

I've been in settings like a religious school with a very strict dress code, as in hemlines well below the knee, and no necklines cut any distance down the back, let alone the front. But I have never actually come across anyone condemning brightly colored clothes. I have met a few rather sad people who always dressed in very drab shades. In some cases, it appeared to be a symptom of depression. In a few cases, my guess was that the person did feel that bright clothing would be too modest, or "non-spiritual", for them. Then again, I suspect that a couple of those who told themselves that they were being "spiritual" were actually displaying symptoms of depression.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Grab
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 05:34 PM

Bright colours can only be worn by people not engaged in much heavy work - they'll show the dirt, unlike plain brown/grey/whatever. You wear them, you're proclaiming "I don't need to do cleaning or manual work". In a society of working folk, as a woman I guess that's not designed to make you popular any time before the invention of the vacuum cleaner and washing machine...

Graham.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 06:50 PM

Red and green
Should not be seen
Except upon a foool

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 04:50 AM

All these rules for what colours should not be put together! It's a good thing that nature never follows anything but it's own rules, otherwise a lot of the flower displays would disappear.....

As has been stated previously, from posters' personal experiences, there are religious groups who seem to avoid bright colours for reasons of their own. This has been the case from the time of the Puritans and Cromwell at least. Maybe these groups feel that it is ungodly to draw attention to themselves in this way or that sober clothing reflects the way in which they think that life should be led. To me it strikes a chord with the Islamic tradition of ultra modest dress. Horses for courses I suppose.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Moses
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 09:00 AM

Nature tends to use bright colours as a warning signal. Some poisonous insects and animals use bright colours (red and yellow mainly) to advertise the fact. (Some who are not poisonous also use these colours hoping predators will mistake them for the real thing and thus avoid being eaten without having to go to the trouble of making their own poison - but that's another story!!)

Maybe that is why we use the colour red on traffic signals as a warning sign for danger.

Perhaps using bright colours for clothing is seen sub-consciously as using "tainted" colours that in nature are signalling danger??

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 03:31 PM

From Richard Thompson's 'Outside of the Inside' , about the Taliban -- 'colour is the fuel of madness, grey's the colour of the pious knelt upon the misericord'.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:16 AM

I wonder if someone has enough knowledge of them to comment on the (usually bright?) hex signs used by the "Pennsylvania Dutch" on their farm buildings. There seems to be quite a bit of "lore" associated, but I've never looked into it much.

I believe the selection of colors available with the simple paints used probably was pretty limited, but have never heard whether specific symbols - and what they "hexed" - were associated with particular colors. Perhaps there's a whole field of heraldry to be explored.

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 07:23 AM

Bright colours suggest gaiety, prosperity and hubris, and attract the attentions of Miss Fortune and Old Man Trouble. "Black follows green", my Granny used to say, you'll regret dolling yourself up like that...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 07:34 AM

red is fine by me

(you wanna argue?)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM

Would we???:0)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:03 PM

Better not Jane.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 03:15 AM

Re Little Red Riding Hood:
The colour red is used in the traditional female dresses in German regions.
In the Black Forest the colour of the balls upon the hat show the marital status: red = unmarried, black = married.
So it is in my home country of Hessen. In the "Schwalm", a small county around a rivulet of the same name it is the same. In the right corner you see two unmarried girls (red caps), to the left two married women (black caps). The girls in red are the archetype of the original Little Red Riding Hood as told by the Grimm Bros. In the middle you see bride and groom. Note the bright colours of a part of their dresses.
In other parts of our country the distinction by colour of the headgear can be finer: unmarried = red, married, young = green, married, old = violet, widow = black. The older the darker - such is life.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Marje
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:55 AM

In the Scots song "The Leaboys Lassie", the girl is following her leaboy (itenerant farm worker) lover and knows that she'll be taken for a loose woman when she says:
"I'll dye my petticoats red
And face them with the yellow,
I'll tell the dyster lads
That the leaboys I'm to follow.."

I suppose this indicates that at that time, bright colours were a sign of lax morals in a woman.

marje

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Celtaddict
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:02 PM

When I grew up, "loud" was not so much about color (unless it was neon) but about clashing (which sounds loud): orange shirt and red pants, madras pants and flowered shirt.
Aziza: fascinating.
Moses: interesting idea about the warning colors.
Decades ago, the prostitutes in Russia used to wear red stockings to advertise.
In the far west of Ireland, where life was stern and earnest and clothing ferociously functional in general, a traditional attire for a woman as late as the 1950s might well be black hood, black shawl, homespun shift (functioning as blouse and slip), black skirts, and bright red petticoat.
The use of red in military uniforms was said to disguise the blood after injury.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Celtaddict
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:11 PM

InOBU tells an interesting story of a modestly dressed Quaker, simple classic black silk head to toe, being scandalized by the appearance in Meeting of a young girl in a bright red dress. At the end of Meeting, when people turned to greet one another, the red-dressed girl turned to her and gasped in shock, "Friend, hast given thought to the cost of thy raiment?"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:13 PM

Green and Orange have political associations, of course. As a young girl, my grandmother bought an orange dress.
When her father, a Fenian and Civil War veteran, saw it, he blew up and ripped it to pieces.
After she married, she would wear neither green nor orange.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: lady penelope
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 06:17 PM

Black being the hardest dye to produce, was until reletively recently, a sign of wealth.

A true deep purple was the next hardest to produce - the reason why the roman emporers wore it (and the reason why the pope now wears it).

True blue followed. Essentially, any bold or 'true' colour takes time and effort to produce in clothing (or at least it did...) and therefore the material itself costs serious money.

Anyone of modest birth would automatically be suspect if they wore such material and questions would be raised as to how they got the wherewithall to obtain it. Women especially were suspect because in a lot of societies they had no personal wealth. (Look at India, bright colours are the norm. If Hindu, a woman owns her own wealth that she brings to the marriage in the form of clothing and jewellry. Consequently the family show their wealth by making sure the brides clothing is made from expensive material).

Now, all sorts of reasons can be given as to how someone has obtained material that they shouldn't be able to afford. The fairies gave it to them, they stole it, (if female) they slept with someone who gave it to them.

From here it's easy to see that the colours aren't evil, but the associated actions behind being able to obtain brightly coloured clothing, could be construed as such, especially by a western abrahamic religion based society.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:03 PM

HERE
is a link to a color list that utilizes a non-Western cultural reference [the Akan people of Ghana, West Africa.

FYI-the Ashanti {Asante Twi} and Fante {Fanti} are two well known Akan ethnic groups.

For example here is the passage from that website on the color "black":

"Black derives its significance from the notion that new things get darker while they mature; and physical aging comes with spiritual maturity. The Akans blacken most of their ritual objects to increase their spiritual potency. Black symbolizes an intensified spiritual energy, communion with the ancestral spirits, antiquity, spiritual maturity, and spiritual potency."

-snip-

And here is the passage from that website on the color "red" :

"[Red] Is associated with sense of seriousness, readiness for a serious spiritual or political encounter. It is also associated with blood, sacrificial rites and the shedding of blood. Red is therefore used as a symbol of heightened spiritual and political mood, sacrifice and struggle."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:17 PM

Also, for those interested, click History of Ashanti Kente Cloth for more information on color symbolism in kente cloth.

[Kente cloth is the name used for types of traditional Ghanaian [Asante and Ewe] cloth which has become associated throughout the African Diaspora with African culture and Black pride.

By happenchance, this website served as the source of the article whose link I had provided in my preceding post. I found no citation of this link on that website.

Here are [additional] excerpts from that website:

"Kente Symbolism

Kente is Used not only for its beauty but also for its symbolic significance. Each cloth has a name and a meaning; and each of the numerous patterns and motifs has a name and a meaning. Names and meanings are derived from historical events, individual achievements, proverbs, philosophical concepts, oral literature, moral values, social code of conduct of conduct, human behavior and certain attributes of plant and animal life. Patterns and motifs are rendered in geometric abstractions of objects associated with the intended meaning. Sometimes. some of such patterns and motifs are arbitrarily determined, and their forms have no direct structural similarities with the concepts or objects symbolized. their relationship is primarily conceptual rather than representational.

Patterns and motifs are generally created by weavers who also assign names and meanings to them. Forms, names and means of such patterns and motifs are sometimes given by weavers who may obtain them through dreams and during contemplative moments when they are said to be in communion with the spiritual world. Sometimes, kings and elders may ascribe names to cloths that they specially commission. Generally, names are based on the warp arrangements of the cloth, however, in some instances, both warp and weft arrangements determine a name of a cloth.

There are over 300 different types of cloth designs, each with its name. Each cloth design comes with numerous variations-in color and distribution of motifs. This chart presents names of 54 different cloth designs, and 42 motifs, their literal meanings and their symbolic significance. Symbolism are given interpretations on the basis of the general Akan culture.

Color symbolism within the Akan culture affects the aesthetics of Kente. Colors are chosen for both their visual effect and their symbolic meanings. A weaver's choice of colors for both weft and warp designs, may be dictated either by tradition or by individual aesthetic taste. There are gender differences in color preferences, dictated by tradition, individual aesthetic taste and by spirit of the occasion. As a convention rather than a strict code of dress, women tend to prefer cloths with background or dominant colors that are lighter or tinted, such as white, light yellow, pink, purple, light blue, light green and turquoise. Generally, men tend to prefer cloths with background or dominant colors that are on the shaded side, such as black, dark blue, dark green, maroon, dark yellow, orange and red. Social changes and modern living have, however, led some people to ignore these traditional norms, resulting in color choice based on individual taste...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:30 PM

I should mention that ,regardless of gender, most African Americans associate kente cloth with the fabric which combines orange, yellow, red, and black colors. This is probably because that was the type of fabric that was first introduced as kente cloth in the United States.

Although kente cloth was used for traditional sacred purposes, the orange, yellow, red, and black kente cloth color combination shows up in all kinds of images and uses that are directed to African American people and others of the African Diaspora including clothing, graduation sashes, Christian ministers' and Christian church choir's sashes [on robes],hats, scarfs, print advertisments, wrapping paper, greeting cards, umbrellas, tablecloths etc etc etc.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: *Laura*
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 08:01 PM

Red and Green
should never be seen
except on the back of a fairy queen

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: JennieG
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 11:52 PM

An interesting book to read is "Colour: travels through the paintbox" by Victoria Finlay (probably spelt "color" in the US). She describes how colour has always fascinated her and searches the world finding out out colour, how and why it is used. While it mostly refers to painting and fine art it's intriguing - did you know that the Virgin Mary was always portrayed wearing blue because "the only paint that was deemed worthy for her holy robe in Renaissance Italy was ultramarine, the most expensive of colours except for gold" (p310).

My favourite colour is yellow because I have a sunny nature (sometimes). And green just because I like it.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: GUEST,Anonny Mouse
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 01:22 AM

Colors are colors-we put the interpretation on them. Red gets brought up alot as good and bad, like the color of the devil but also can symbolize martyrs. Black is Amish wear, plain etc. but also associated with death. Most churches, synagogues except maybe hard core orthodox, dont much care what colors people wear. Doesnt the Supreme Court have to attend some kinda "red mass" or something every year? Anyway how can a color be evil? Like saying people with brown eyes are all good and blue eyes bad or something. Dopey. Bright colors are in houses of worship on altars, pulpits and stuff and look at how priests and the Pope dress up in reds and golds and purples for services or official functions-cardinals always wear red. Yellow means a coward but the color of the sun. We feel blue but blues is cool music-cool color. Nah bright colors arent "evil." People can be evil no matter how they dress. Lookit Hitler-Mr. Brown or olive green.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: C-flat
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 03:22 AM

My grandfather refused anything green throughout his life because he was brought up to understand that the colour green was acheived by using arsenic as a colourant.
He once caught me eating green sweets and insisted I spit them out!

C-flat.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 05:55 PM

Concerning 'The Leaboy's Lassie' mentioned by Marje above:

I suppose this indicates that at that time, bright colours were a sign of lax morals in a woman.

Two sources mention red and yellow as the colours of the 'Lichtbobs', who were a regiment of the Light Brigade (David Buchan, Folksongs 151) / the Somerset Light Infantry (Fraser, Edward / Gibbons, John (comp.): Soldier and sailor words and phrases 190). There is no indication of the meaning given by Marje, but maybe it went without saying at the time that a woman following a soldier must be 'fast'?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 06:18 PM

C-flat: There is an arsenic compound called Paris Green, which was once commonly used as a green pigment, but hopefully not in candy!

I have seen the Ulysses S. Grant house that is mentioned in the Wikipedia article. It is outside of St. Louis, MO, and has recently been restored, including its green color, but I suppose nowadays it is possible to match the color without using arsenic.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 09:10 PM

This thread came to mind when I read this excerpt from a website I just found:

"Colors in the cloths of African people posses important meaning. Meanings vary from people to people and cloth to cloth. For example, the Akan people in West Africa use dark colors such as red, black, and brown for funerals, while the Akon use white for joyous occasions, such as naming ceremonies. In kente cloth made by the Ashanti people of Ghana, who are also Akan, gold represents status
and serenity. Yellow represents fertility (like the ripeness ofan egg yoke or a fruit) and vitality. Green signifies therenewal and growth seen in plants and represents the cycle ofbirth and decay. Blue represents the presence of God and theomnipotence of the blue sky. Blue also refers to a pure spirit,one which rests in harmony. Red connotes passion, thepassion of political determination, struggle, and defense. Ashanti also believe that red holds protective powers. Finally, black denotes seriousness and a union with ancestors.It implies spiritual awareness. "

Source: Clothing as Cultural Expression

Subject: RE: Folklore: Are bright colors evil?
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 09:48 PM

I was talking the other day with a fundamentalist preacher and he made the association of green with envy and greed and therefore that it is the color of evil. I told him - ignoring what he'd said - that green is my favorite color because it is the color of living things, the color of life. He passed over what I said. A fine little dance we were engaged in.