Tech: 16 rpm? Help

Subject: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: GUEST,wilbyhillbilly
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 01:19 AM

As some of you are aware, I transfer vinyl and tapes to CDs, but I've now got someone sending me a "couple of metal discs" recorded by her dad way back in the twenties, she thinks.

They are flat discs supposedly the same as vinyls, BUT they are recorded at 16rpm. I have the software to alter speeds, but it only caters for 78, 45, 33.

Can anyone tell me if there are any programs anywhere that will cater for 16rpm, or any bright ideas on how to achieve this.

whb

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: johnross
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 01:44 AM

Those disks are probably 16-2/3 RPM, which is 50% of 33-1/3. So you can transfer them at 33, and then use the "change speed" function in your audio edior program to double the speed.

The more critical problem might be finding the correct stylus width. If they are indeed vinyl, it's unlikely that they date back to the 1920's. More likely from the 1950s or 1960s. If it was me, I would start with a microgroove (LP) stylus, and if that doesn't work well, go to a 78-type stylus.

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 02:31 AM

Thanks John, very helpful. I realise the stylus bit is going to be crucial as the discs are actually metal discs, but I think I have the right equipment for that.
It was just the speed thing that I was stumped on which thankfully you have seemed to answer that.

Great stuff.

whb

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 03:22 AM

If it's any help, I have a portable phono made for and used by an Oklahoma high school, ca. 1950s. A brother inlaw picked it up at an auction a few years back, and gave it to us because I'd complained of not having anything to play 78s.

It has a flip-over (2 needle) cartridge, with the usual diamond needle for LPs and saphire for "other." Unfortunately it just says "choose the proper needle for the kind of record to be played," and doesn't indicate anything more. The instructions in the lid do say that the "pull up" spindle (for 45s) may be needed for "large hole 16 RPM records," so apparently some were made in "45-ish" geometry.

The only 16 RPM I've actually seen up close, since I was too young to notice details, is one I got from a local radio station (when they broadcast some lies about me) in 1957, and it had the standard small hole.

Recollection is that somewhere several eons ago (ca. 1954?) a friend had run into some metal disks, and noted that where vinyl records record via side-to-side needle motions, the ones he had appeared to have a constant width straight-sided track with varying depth. If the records you're expecting really are 1920s era, you may find that's the case - or not. A stereo cartridge should pick up the up-and-down, if necessary, if you can get a needle that rides on the bottom of the groove without too much wobble. Note that I never actually saw his records, but probably can trust his description, since he'd consulted his "electronics whiz brother" before our conversation.

Your friend may also be calling them "metal disks" because they have a metal core, with vinyl on them. In this case I'd expect the standard wobbly groove.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 04:34 AM

Once again I thank you JohnInKansas, your input is greatly appreciated, as all the other times you have helped.

I thought I knew most there is to know about 78s etc being brought up with them many years ago, that old saying comes to mind, "you're never too old to learn".

Being a part of Mudcat is in itself a learning curve, I know I've learnt a helluva lot since joining. Long may it reign.

whb

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: GUEST,wilbyhillbilly
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 04:36 AM

The above post is mine. Forgot to put my name in. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 05:24 AM

I vaguely remember that some "childrens records" were 16 rpm in the late 40s or early 50s or so. They probably were cheaply produced, and weren't expected to be good fidelity, especially after the peanut butter and jelly got on them.

The memory is rather vague, but it seems we may have had a few of them, and even then the only phono we had that would play them "belonged" to my older sister. My recollections of some of the disputes over use of the phonograph probably are stronger than my remembrance of technical details.

By 1957, when the radio station sent me their record, we had no way to play it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: mack/misophist
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:05 AM

If I remember correctly, the metal core disks are covered with laquer, not vinyl, so be very careful. Syndicated radio shows were often distributed on very thin 'play once' vinly records that could be rolled up and sent in a mailing tube.

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 11:32 AM

I remember that 16RPM was one attempt to make "talking books" easily available, but it still took a number of discs to do much, and it never really caught on....I think we actually had a record player with the 16 2/3 option when I was a kid, but we never had any of the records. I know the library in Wichita had one for awhile.

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: Ragman
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 12:41 PM

Slightly off the thread, but when I was learning to play guitar from LPs in the 60s, I found that when played at 16 2/3 speed, not only were the notes easier to catch at half the speed, but they were exactly one octave down, so I didn't have to re-tune my guitar! Helped me many times to catch hold of a particularly clever section of playing and settle some arguments and generate some new ones! Technology just make things too easy for us today.

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 10:44 AM

Thanks for the input folks! All very helpful.

whb

Subject: RE: Tech: 16 rpm? Help
From: jeffp
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 11:16 AM

When I was growing up we had some "Talking Book" records of Mark Twain stories. There were generally 2 stories to each side of a 7 inch record (like a 45) They played at 16 2/3 rpm. That slow a speed was fine for spoken word, but not much fidelity for music. I did dearly love those stories. They were told very well - Punch Brothers Punch, Jim Baker's Bluejay Yarn, Guying the Guides, a whole bunch of 'em.