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Chanties Helped Win World War I

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Charley Noble 09 Jan 06 - 10:46 AM
Barry Finn 09 Jan 06 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,Lighter 09 Jan 06 - 11:50 AM
Charley Noble 09 Jan 06 - 07:15 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 09 Jan 06 - 11:51 PM
Bugsy 09 Jan 06 - 11:56 PM
George Papavgeris 10 Jan 06 - 05:25 AM
Hrothgar 10 Jan 06 - 06:17 AM
George Papavgeris 10 Jan 06 - 07:12 AM
Charley Noble 10 Jan 06 - 10:12 AM
Dead Horse 10 Jan 06 - 06:22 PM
Charley Noble 10 Jan 06 - 08:06 PM
SINSULL 03 Jul 12 - 06:11 PM
Charley Noble 03 Jul 12 - 07:06 PM
Steve Gardham 04 Jul 12 - 03:38 PM
Ross Campbell 04 Jul 12 - 05:05 PM
SINSULL 04 Jul 12 - 05:29 PM
Ross Campbell 04 Jul 12 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,Lighter 04 Jul 12 - 07:24 PM
Charley Noble 04 Jul 12 - 08:17 PM
Ross Campbell 05 Jul 12 - 12:37 PM
Little Hawk 05 Jul 12 - 01:37 PM
Highlandman 05 Jul 12 - 03:16 PM
Charley Noble 05 Jul 12 - 10:44 PM
Highlandman 06 Jul 12 - 10:48 AM
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Subject: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 10:46 AM

I was just doing some research on the Merchant Marine during World War 1 and ran across this interesting excerpt in a newsletter:

How Young Americans Are Taught To Man Our New Merchant Marine, 1918

Emergency Fleet News, published by the United States Shipping Board Emergency Fleet Corporation, Philadelphia. May 20, 1918
[Newsletter written for shipyard employees]

Another interesting detail of this service is the chantie singing. On the principle that music improves team work, the United States Shipping Board has appointed an official chantie instructor, Stanton H. King, of Boston, whose duty is to revive chantie singing among our merchant sailors on both steam and sail vessels. Mr. King is considered the best known chantie singer in this country, and has been singing these old sea work songs at a Boston mission for years. He not only knows the old chanties, but how to get the "punch" out of them, and teach them to others.

He is an old salt himself, got his experience in deepwater Yankee ships nearly 40 years ago, and has also served in the United States Navy. For years the chantie singing at his meetings in Boston has been famous, and now he is teaching our new merchant sailors such old sea songs as "Shenandoah," "Bound for the Rio Grande," "Blow the Man Down," "Paddy Doyle," and "Reuben Ranzo."

Let's raise a glass to Stanton H. King!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 11:26 AM

Nice find Charley, pity it leads to so many other questions. Like what mission was it & where was located. Being a Bostonian & loving shanties I love to follow this futher. The oldest sessions I've found that had been held in Boston was Irish music durning the 40's & 50's held in the Dudley St area of Roxbury later to known as the Dudley St Sessions (Joe Duranne SP? being one of the regulars that's still alive & playing). I don't imagine any of the singers from the mission are still out & about singing, eh?
see ya soon
Barry


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 11:50 AM

Thanks for posting this, Charley!

About that time, King published a booklet called "King's Book of Chanties," in which he described himself as "Official Government Chantey Man"!

The texts and tunes are all of the very familiar sort.

James M. Carpenter collected some material from King during the 1920s.

The article specifies "merchant vessels." That's yet another indication that shanties weren't used in the U.S. Navy. Back in the '60s I knew a man who had actually trained aboard USS Constellation (the Constitution's sister ship!) in 1918. He told me the only time he ever heard Navy sailors singing was "when they were drunk on liberty." He thought that they "mostly" sang pop songs of the day, but definitely no shanties at work.


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 07:15 PM

Here's the publication citation for King's book of "chanties" which has been discussed in these threads before: Stanton H. King, King's Book of Chanties, Oliver Ditson, Boston, 1918. Probably someone can find a copy on a used book finder website.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 11:51 PM

HYPERBOYLE!!!!!

But is this, not the essance of of ALL folk music?

A distilling, an accent thrilling, a statement sublime, a blow below the line.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Bugsy
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 11:56 PM

They could have sung them in the trenches and bored the enemy to death!

Cheers


Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 05:25 AM

Interesting find, Charley. Yet my sideways-jumping brain couldn't help but notice the Stateside spelling (instead of the British "shanties"), leading me to exclaim in frustration "How many ways will Americans try to prove that they won the war?" Even the shanties were yours (Shenandoah, Rio Grande etc)... And the poor Brits, what could they do with just Vera Lyn to sing for them...

Pulling your leg of course, mate - good find!


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Hrothgar
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 06:17 AM

WW1??

Vera Lynn??

DDoes not compute, George.

:-)


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 07:12 AM

Her younger sister then? :-)
Slightly anachronistic, but you know what I mean..


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 10:12 AM

George-

I just used the spelling that King used. Even Cicely Fox Smith vacillated on how to spell this form of nautical work song. Smith's book of traditional nautical songs is titled A BOOK OF SHANTIES but her sea poetry books refer to chanties. No doubt she spent many a sleepless night mulling this question over. It's amazing she got anything published at all!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Dead Horse
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 06:22 PM

Just as with the shanties themselves, the word was probably never written down until it became common usage among the (mostly) illiterate sailors.
Just take a look at how the spelling of the titles, and even the titles themselves, change so much from one collector to another.
The tunes used can vary considerably too!
So why rant at how Shantie Shanty Chanty or Chantie is spelled?
And that's just in English! (I wonder if there was a German chantey singer doing the same thing in Bremerhaven???)
There aint no right nor no wrong way about it.
Different ships, different long splices (as some old fella called Hugill was apt to say about it all).



Oh yeah, and its spelled Shannendoh, OK?    :-)


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War 1
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:06 PM

Dead Horse-

In her discussion of shanties/chanties C. Fox Smith recalls a painful evening she spent at a music hall where the three large mariners attired in jerseys, sea boots, cheesecutter and stocking caps shouted "Let's have a tchahntey!"

She also mentioned that old shellbacks would invariably say "Shannadore" rather than "Shenandoah" but not to worry!

Cheerily,
Charley Nobble


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 06:11 PM

House cleaning and I found a copy of King's Book of Chanties. Inside are a photo of King with his parrot as well as a card printed with his song about The Sailor's Haven.


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 07:06 PM

Sinsull-

Some day I'd like to look at this book. Keep an eye on it!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 03:38 PM

A contents list of what's in there would be a good start, Sinsull.


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 05:05 PM

Bookfinder only came up with one (expensive) copy of "King's Book of Chanties", but showed two other books by Stanton H. King - "Dog Watches at Sea" and "A Bunch of Rope Yarns". It also threw up a couple of references to current offers on eBay (UK) - two sellers, slightly different descriptions:-

DOG WATCHES AT SEA - STANTON H. KING * AUDIOBOOK MP3 CD

"Dog Watches at Sea
Audiobook MP3 CD

Stanton H. King was from Barbados and followed his brothers to sea at the age of twelve in 1880. He spent only twelve years at sea for reasons given in this book. Thereafter, he became associated with the Sailors' Haven, Boston, Massachusetts and became its director. He was also a renowned Chantie singer and, in 1918, King's Book Of Chanties was published. King views the sailing life from "before the mast", that is, through the eyes of the common sailor.

By Stanton H. King

This high quality recording is in MP3 format, you can listen to your Audiobook on your computer / laptop, MP3 compatible CD player or you can easily transfer these to your iPod / MP3 media player or any other MP3 compatible device.

Chapters: 16

Format: MP3

Running time: 7 Hrs 35 Mins

THIS ITEM WILL BE DELIVERED ON CD"

Exculpatory note follows:-

"Note to eBay: These recordings are from the Writers Original Work, which is now in The Public Domain. They are read by Modern Readers who placed these recordings in The Public Domain. They are not copies of any other "copyrighted commercially available recordings" and as such they do not infringe any copyrights."

DOG WATCHES AT SEA by Stanton H. King audiobook Mp3 CD £2.49

"Dog Watches at Sea

by Stanton H. King

Stanton H. King was from Barbados and followed his brothers to sea at the age of twelve in 1880. He spent only twelve years at sea for reasons given in this book. Thereafter, he became associated with the Sailors' Haven, Boston, Massachusetts and became its director. He was also a renowned Chantie singer and, in 1918, King's Book Of Chanties was published. King views the sailing life from "before the mast", that is, through the eyes of the common sailor. (Summary by Peter Kelleher)




Read by Peter Kelleher

Approx runtime 7+ hrs"

In very small print is appended

"NOTICE:
To Whom It May Concern (inc. Ebay's VeRo Team and The Publishers Association).

These CD's are made from files originating from librivox.org and are in the public domain.
Although LibriVox condones the selling of these CD's, it has nothing to do with the selling of these CD's."

An eBay (US) seller has this on offer in two formats, 8x Audio CDs or one MP3 CD, also stating the source as LibriVox.

I hadn't come across LibriVox before. Its stated objective is "To make all books in the public domain available, for free, in audio format on the internet." Here's a link: http://librivox.org/

Anybody found any of these?

Ross


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 05:29 PM

lONG DRAG CHANTIES:
A Long Time Ago
Blow Boys Blow
Blow The Man Down
Boney Was A Warrior
Dead Horse
Hanging Johnnie
Leave Her, Johnny, Leave Her
Reuben Ranzo
Roll The Cotton Down
Tom's Gone To Hilo
SHORT DRAG CHANTIES:
Haul Awa y Joe
Haul The Bowline
Johnny Boker
Paddy Doyle
CAPSTAN CHANTIES
Homeward Bound
Hoodah-Day
Plains of Mexio
Rio Grande
Sally Brown
We're All Bound To Go
Wide Missouri
PUMPING CHANTIES
One More Day
Storm-Along
OLD SEA SONGS
A-Roving
Farewell and Adieu to You
High Barbaree
Rolling Home

It is a pamphlet bound in green paper. How expensive, Ross???? Nevermind. I have traded it away for a CD.


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 05:40 PM

Looks like a rather imaginary offer, Sinsull, not to mention imaginatively priced. Amazon.com describe it as a library reprint, "temporarily unavailable", priced at $88.00 (but you get FREE Super Saver Delivery in the US!?!?)

http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Book-Chanties-Stanton-King/dp/072226111X%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-home-

I hope you got a really nice CD!

Ross


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 07:24 PM

Any U.S. public or university library can get you the book (or almost any book) on Interlibrary Loan. For free. In about two weeks.

As soon as you get it, rush to the Xerox machine and you'll have your own copy forever. Since King's shanty book appeared in 1918, it is long out of copyright, and Xeroxing is perfectly legal.


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Jul 12 - 08:17 PM

The Complete Poetry of Cicely Fox Smith is now available as a "used book" at amazon.com for twice what the new book sells for there. It's amazing what one finds for offers on the web, and there is a predator born every minute to take advantage of the gullible.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 12:37 PM

re Interlibrary Loan - in the UK the British Library operates a similar service, which I have used a couple of times in the past. Any local library can make a request for you (used to be 50p charge, maybe more now). Occasionally my request has arrived in Photocopy form (articles, small pamphlets, etc) which was then available for purchase at cost.

PS for Charley -

From the sublime (£25.44 & this item Delivered FREE in the UK with Super Saver Delivery.)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Complete-Poetry-Cicely-Smith/dp/193565618X%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-hom

to the ridiculous ($93.21 + $3.99shipping) [£58.57 + &8.01]

http://www.amazon.com//gp/offer-listing/193565618X/sr=/qid=/?condition=used&tag=bf-ps-home-20

Ross


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 01:37 PM

The Germans have always enjoyed singing songs too. Groups of young German men like few things better than lustily belting out a bunch of folk tunes, patriotic and romantic ballads, pub songs, etc.

So....their songs certainly helped them carry on the war effort in both World Wars too.

What won those wars, however, was simply this: The side that had the most resources, most men, and most money eventually won...through the process of attrition.

In both wars that side was the Allies...after the USA got involved. The USA had the largest economy in the world, and it wasn't being bombed or invaded, so that economy was undamaged and operating at full capacity and it overwhelmed its economically weaker opponents. That's what won those wars.

Have we got a song about it?


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Highlandman
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 03:16 PM

Chantey/Shanty
I'm in the midst of Joanna Colcord's Songs of the American Sailorman. In the foreword she says she's torn about the spelling; after a long analytical ramble about etymology and sources she decides to use "shanty" solely to remove the temptation for some bugger to pronounce it with the hard "ch." Seems to be the soundest reasoning I have ever come across.
-Glenn


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 10:44 PM

Ross-

Exactly the outrageous doubling of price for a so-called used copy of our CFS Poetry book I was speaking of. Evidently if someone nibbles the seller buys the book at the regular price at Amazon, about $40, and then resells it to the gullible buyer for the rip-off price of $80.

Cicely Fox Smith used both spellings in the titles of her poetry books but concluded that "shanty" was the better spelling for her traditional collection of such sea songs. She used a special spelling of "Tchantey" in her rant about some revivalists in the 1920's who performed such music on the stage in their stripped shirts and sailor caps. She and Joanna Colcord had a lively correspondence, both being woman with interests in the "man's world of tall ships."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Chanties Helped Win World War I
From: Highlandman
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 10:48 AM

I've just finished Colcord's book. I found some of the tunes interestingly different from the "folkie" versions I learned as a youngster. More modal, and more irregular than I would expect in some cases for a work song.
The book did leave me with a couple of puzzling questions.
Methinks I'll start a thread on them.
Cheers
-Glenn


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